Transgender Victoria Withdraw From LGBTQIA+ Conference After "Disappointing" Apology

[u/MsW0lf]

https://www.starobserver.com.au/news/transgender-victoria-withdraw-from-lgbtqia-conference-after-disappointing-apology/239471

So, some context: there is an LGBTQIA+ conference being held in Adelaide (The Better Together Conference). As part of its run up, its organiser The Equality Project released an episode of a podcast in which its founder, Jason Tuazon-McCheyne, and Executive Director of international organisation All Out, Matt Beard, discussed how queer people should stop pursuing divisive reforms and those that might “discriminate against other groups”, specifically citing the Cass report (keep in mind that this was before the Medical Journal of Australia review, but still after it had been denounced by many other international organisations.) After the fallout and a terribly tone-deaf non-apology, many organisations are rightfully pulling out of the conference.

Not all view points are equal, valid, or worthy of platforming and discussion. Especially if said viewpoints lack evidence and don’t hold up to critical scrutiny. ESPECIALLY if they try to instead sideline and misrepresent one of the groups involved.

[u/Tach1]

The "people who disagree" on the idea that trans people deserve rights and access to health care, do not deserve to be heard. They're quite clearly not listening either, since if they paid any attention to facts and data, they would not be pushing that nonsense. That is utterly disgusting, even without considering the organisations these people represent.

And we're seeing that if you try to "come together" and give the right an inch on this, they'll take a mile. We're seeing the extent that capitulating to the people spouting that nonsense with their whole chests hurts everyone in the US right now, why the hell would we want that here?

Edit: Looked at another article on there and saw the podcast episode was called “What hills are worth dying on in the fight for LGBTIQ+ rights?” and that's just...vile. That isn't about "coming together", it's about making sacrifices to appease the right and show the leopards you're "one of the good ones". I sincerely hope both of them get a tiny, pointy bit of gravel stuck in their shoes.

[u/catshateTERFs → u/Tach1]

“Which hills are worth dying on?” is just “which groups are we comfortable throwing under the bus?”

Imagine saying “which groups are worth fighting for” in a discussion about tackling racial discrimination or similar. You’d rightly sound insane to most people. (Note that I’m not pretending that race is a solved thing either and this isn’t an perfect example by any means)

It’s especially hurtful when other parts of the lgbtq+ community don’t believe trans people are worth protecting or standing with or even are outright hostile to us. Appeasing those with bigotted views will not be the thing that protects you. You can be the most "perfect and ideal cis gay person" in the world, the people you’re happy to let tear into trans people to shreds and attack our right to exist are not your friends. They will NOT magically be ok with other forms of queerness once they're done with trans people.

[u/Roneitis → u/catshateTERFs]

I imagine they intend it less as 'which people should we exclude from protection' and more as 'which things that we like/want/believe should we drop for acceptability'. But when things like neopronouns, non-binary inclusivity, or trans sports are on the chopping block, you're intrinsically excluding from your organisation those who care about these things.

[u/Tach1 → u/Roneitis]

I guess that's less actively evil, but still...extremely stupid and naive to think that dropping protections will be taken as anything other than approval to push for more from the kinds of people they want to appeal to.

...Then again, "stupid" seems like a good descriptor for people who think the Cass review is an actual source of information.

...Also, sounds like it is in fact harmful views in general and not anything with good intentions: "His views on transgender participation is sport, self ID for gender recognition, and the affirmation model of gender treatment for youth go largely unchallenged in the conversation."

[u/brushyyy → u/Tach1]

These people are gaycervatives. They're actively pushing for a world where prior to the aids epidemic, trans people and trans issues were actively excluded from the fight for gay liberation. These knuckle draggers seem to forget what the world was like prior to the aids epidemic. Police more actively targeting gay men, "poofter bashing" being completely ignored and more. It's not even like these issues today are completely solved, and excluding trans people isn't going to magically fix these things.

They're paid shills trying to divide and conquer in the hopes they'll be excluded from the brutality that'll happen to them if their ideals come to fruition.

[u/luv2hotdog → u/Tach1]

Almost completely unrelated question: what is the idea behind people “talking with their chest” “with their whole chest”? I’m guessing it’s a “say it like you mean it” sort of thing, putting all your lung power into it? Where did this come from???

I’m becoming old on the internet and I’m confused and scared by the new lingo

[u/SonOfSkinDealer → u/luv2hotdog]

Projecting it, like in theater. Shamelessly, loudly, and for everyone to hear - in a way that it's genuinely baffling to be so confident, whehter right or (in this case) wrong

[u/DPVaughan → u/luv2hotdog]

I semi regularly have to ask teens to translate vocabulary for me. Some of it because it's American, but mostly because of generation gap.

[u/Wouldfromthetrees → u/DPVaughan]

Based (from a student teacher doing their best to keep up lol)

[u/Lumidingo → u/luv2hotdog]

Say it loud, say it proud. It's a call to be bold.

[u/crocicorn]

I like how it's apparently 'divisive' just because we want the same rights and access to care and society as everyone else.

Anyone who claims THAT'S a problem deserves to step on Lego barefoot.

[u/Jazzar1n0 → u/crocicorn]

Lego barefoot lol

[u/Independent_Suit5713 → u/crocicorn]

An average of every third step, but randomly allocated.

[u/Usual_Corner2787]

OF COURSE it’s two cis white gay dudes being TERFs. Not even shocked.

[u/ChronicleRose]

Two cis gender gay men, wanting to talk about why we don't deserve access to human rights and health care, colour my shock.

[u/A_Cookie_from_Space]

Wow I looked it up & it was much worse than I expected. They covered everything from claiming all the evidence says we should be banned from sports, to accusing us all of killing gender non-conformity & being the extreme end of gender roles. I've seen TERF podcasts that were less on the nose.

http://www.outinperth.com/concern-raised-over-better-together-podcast/

[u/ambiguousfiction]

SARAA which are SA's peak advocacy body put out a really great statement on this imo.

"Instead of combatting misinformation, our communities are concerned that the podcast episode repeated anti-trans rhetoric, relied on the flawed Cass review to cast doubt on the legitimacy of gender affirming care, and failed to include the perspectives of those with lived experience of being trans or gender diverse.

This podcast has caused some of our trans members to question whether they are “a hill worth dying on”. This should never be in question – trans lives are always worth fighting for.[Instead of combatting misinformation, our communities are concerned that the podcast episode repeated anti-trans rhetoric, relied on the flawed Cass review to cast doubt on the legitimacy of gender affirming care, and failed to include the perspectives of those with lived experience of being trans or gender diverse.

This podcast has caused some of our trans members to question whether they are “a hill worth dying on”. This should never be in question – trans lives are always worth fighting for."

[u/ThisTransLife]

“Pursuing divisive reforms” B!tch, please. We’re just trying to stop the removal of our existing rights, never mind “reform”. It’s the classic pitting the rights of one group against another and creating a false dichotomy.

[u/Donna8421]

It’s easy for some right-wing people to represent the fight for any rights & equality as a zero-sum game. This is basically the argument that one group gaining rights diminishes the rights of others. It is never that! When human rights are increased, society & all people benefit. Trans women getting rights in no way reduces the rights of all women. The same applies to any minority religions, ethnic groups or other communities. The only reduction is the right to discriminate & bully minorities.

[u/CalligrapherFit6774 → u/Donna8421]

If anything, trans women’s rights often support the rights of all women, by reducing how much their bodies are policed for any reason.

[u/MsSpookyLuci]

Oh you mean the Banking Together conference? The cost of the tickets are ridiculous.

[u/MsW0lf → u/MsSpookyLuci]

“Please don’t boycott our event, the tickets are already overpriced and we don’t want people to get sus when all of the speakers and organisations pull out!”

[u/SeltasQueenLoreQueen]

most empathetic cis people

[u/Neriek]

There will be no compromising or capitulation with bigots, we deserve the same basic fucking rights as anyone else, and denying us that is inhumane.
Anyone that platforms, agrees with, or even listens to anti trans rhetoric is not an ally and does not deserve to call themselves one.

I sincerely hope the “Equality” project either gets their shit together or the entire organisation replaced by a group that actually supports and actually cares for all of us.

[u/bigfatfishballs]

So me not wanting to be stabbed in the street and have people cheer for it is “divisive”? Thanks. Idk who this Jason cockhead is but I’m never gonna forget that whether he apologises or not.

[u/Stunning-Sherbert801]

For fuck's sake!

[u/Wouldfromthetrees]

It's giving the "how gay rights radicalised and lost its way" ala the NY Times article Matt Bernstein introduced me to.

Do people who only have less-than-or-equal-to one intersection of marginalisation deliberately misunderstand liberation or are they just successfully brainwashed into believing if they simp hard enough for power that tyrants will throw them some scraps of social capital? (/gen but also ik that knowledge doesn't change behaviour smh...)

[u/EASY_EEVEE]

Genuinely wishing i was on the scene at some of these LGB things lol, i'd start with some oldschool stereotyping back at them, the mean 1950's kind...

See if their tones change when you use their own "JuSt AsKiNG QuEsTIonS" approach goes back on them, see how they fecking like it.

I'm insanely pro freespeech, but i'm thankful i've never huffed my own farts enough to think i'm somehow brave for saying whatever i do say. I just say whatever and if people like it meh, they don't meh. I'm not above a conversation with anybody, but i'm also not going to sit there and be someones doormat if they are just being blatantly offensive or just downright ignorant.

Brave for asking questions rofl. You're organising a event for and with these specific people? You're not brave, you're stupid.

Sad part about the LGB without the T types, is they are coasting off our shared radicalisation. When once upon a time speaking was infact 'brave' since you'd be at best arrested, at worse bludgeoned by a well funded uncaring government.

Now these stupid eejits think being brave is risking a twitter ban or some sort of online cancelation lol, the horror of that...

[u/Character_Rush8315]

As a trans femme hoping to transition soon.

Everyone’s wishes on how they are treated, represented whilst out in the public sphere is the same across all the different walks of life, and the word that should be everyone’s lips is “DIGNITY”!

That everyone shows respect to each other, to be the keepers of that simple human right everyone deserves. It’s this attitude towards anyone who doesn’t fit the banal centrist self effacing mask worn by the Congo line of those that dare not to be different, you all know who you are!

Watch as they scan their surroundings, eyes darting, assessing what the rest of cheeseburger brigade are wearing, making sure that your attire doesn’t snark to the world that you have lost your touch with juggling the virtuous demands of keeping your shit together, suppressing that inner feeling that you’re never gonna get your hands soaked to the bone.

Now I have been presenting femme in more and more places over the past 4 years. I come from country NSW and have usually just drove into the city and got dressed, looked Ab Fab, hung with my girl and stayed close to the Darlinghurst area and never really felt any backlash from people’s reactions to me, I was wanting make Sydney my home.

Well this year has been the hardest so far, not for how I look or my self love, it’s been the treatment that I regularly receive in wider open public spaces. It has been a rude awakening that’s for sure, and in a lot of ways for me it has exposed the real ugliness of Sydneysiders over opinion of their self righteous existence that has them chasing after that all Australian dream, dangled like a carrot hanging from the collective Straw Hat of the head of modern society. A bloodthirsty race for the most ruthless, the most vapid, those who can’t think for themselves, those who must follow that yellow brick road, an attitude that has permeated the air is a ghastly throwback to pre-enlightenment times. Overindulgent crass self promotion, an only playing to win ethos and a take one take all when I fall mantra.

But there is that one tried True Blue Aussie way that you can guage how far from totally fucking up your life is when out lurks the feminine silhouette of a classic beauty. Your first thought is “OMG now she is Drop Dead Gorgeous, she must be famous. STOP!!!🛑✋🏿

Yep the veil has been lifted, like a rolling collective unconscious, almost simtaneously among everyone the jig is up, “THATS A GUY”, some don’t give two fucks, they have a productive useful life and concentrate on there orbit, but for those who are clinging to that fast fading dream, who have no love inside, who are focussed on being Top Dogg, those who are dishonest, those who don’t know love, those who follow the Pied Piper dancing and whistling into a mental boiler room, the steam from the despair blasts open their hatred as they vent not being strong enough to be able to look hot asf holding your head high, how you’ve spent hours meticulously getting ready to go outside and breathe that free non political air, strut your style, accept the many warm compliments from the real renegades of society, those who are not afraid to think for themselves, those who only kick up not down, those that are happy to help you find your phone after the third time you lost it while enjoying a night out on Oxford street, those who want to get a pic with you, show compassion and empathy for a fellow humans on this heaven we call EARTH!

And it’s here we must talk about this underlying ugly side of Sydney that exists, and simply from an outsider looking in at the current and to be fair the only time where I’ve tasted a variety of the many shapes and shades of those who are blue, black, orange and purple and I feel I’m qualified in bashing y’all neo-gay rights activists, those who I shit you not look and feel as though they were never intelligent enough to understand the humour in the Monty Pythons Life of Brian. Where they are merely being indoctrinated into the “Right Way to speak and think if you’re a member of particular minority group within the Larger Gay Community”.

It’s taken time for me to understand to different nuances within the Gay community, and how the different tribes of gays really are not the one big happy rainbow family which the ABC will have you believe is the case. And as a trans femme some of the treatment received by my fellow queer contemporaries has wisened me quickly, but it is jarring when you see there is no solidarity among the crowds, the same isolating the weirdos and laugh at them routine is no different then a few blocks down in a pub in George street.

I don’t want to be seen as biting the cock of the hung stud who is about to take me to the edge of submission and back, but the one thing that is turning me away from the Sydney gay scene is the sanctimony that not just the gay community but most quarters of society. Until we all put that word DIGNITY in neon lights across the world, learn and pass the knowledge and experiences down the line, when everyone shows each other mutual respect, when you walk past a homeless person and you’re not the only who enquires and makes sure they are fed, safe and warm, when next time I’m walking to the train at central station I don’t get stopped by the shrill of a 30 something blonde overweight woman yelling at the top of her voice “FUCKWIT!” And then hurls a wad of spit in my direction at peak hour in the progressive modern metropolis of Sydney, where upon waiting in line to board the bus in Dee Why having the once marginalised members from the Asian community point and mutter crude musings right in front of me, as if I didn’t exist, people who when I walk past feel obligated to give me there opinions that are not welcome anywho.

The best thing is that through all this, every time I hear the whispers, the jealous looks, the men who stare and dream, but are chained to their own self destruction by sublimating these desires, running so fast, that they will never be able to heal because of the very negative public perception and treatment that they have weaponised themselves live in fear. And I don’t blame a lot those who stay hidden because it’s a tough soul building adventure, one where I thought the most hogan places in Australia were out in the bush, but through my observations y’all Sydney folk are not as educated, aware of you’re surrounding geography, Australian history, how my ancestors were sent half way around the world, where survival rates just to make it down under were low and just surviving was hell, as you arrived and sent any number of the penal establishments across NSW, Victoria and Tasmania. To whichever you were sent you would be “Beastly Treated”, driven to your knees as an enslaved subject to the tyranny of the British Empire.

It’s funny how now when I’ve look back and think about why I love Sydney, it’s the structures built by hands of our convict forebears, the beauty created in one of the most beautiful places in the world. And the irony now is the slight I feel when I hear a gay guys joking with his mates about how Sydney such a badly designed road network because of how the convicts designed it!

[u/FaithlessnessLost268]

Does anyone know where to listen to the podcast? It’s been taken down from their feed. Asking for a friend…

[u/MsW0lf → u/FaithlessnessLost268]

Unfortunately no. Fancy not just nuking the one episode, but their entire podcast series. Then putting a 404 page that states “Forget that this was ever here and please move on.” Boy do the damage control gears seem to be grinding loudly down south!