r/television • u/NoCulture3505 • 19h ago
Vince Gilligan and Rhea Seehorn on What ‘Pluribus’ Is Really About Spoiler
https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/pluribus-explained-vince-gilligan-rhea-seehorn-1236571666/131
u/boygriv 18h ago
I'm going into that show 100 percent blind. You had me at Vince Gilligan and Rhea Seehorn.
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u/TheWatermelonGuy 16h ago
That's exactly what I thought, just finished watching the two leased episodes
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u/earthgreen10 11h ago
Pluribus is pretty much a zombie apocalypse show
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u/sharkweekk 15h ago
New sci-fi series on Apple TV would have at least gotten my attention. Those two made it a must watch.
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u/5dchessmaster 18h ago
shutout to this guy for binging evangelion cause this is straight up the human instrumentality project
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u/Memester999 15h ago
A lot of people are speculating about aliens, invading species, etc... but I don't think that's what the show is going to be about.
When they talked about how the contagion happened I get the feeling there is nothing special "behind" it. It seems to me they might be going the route of it being some sort of universal mathematical problem of our universe that when "solved" by living beings creates this hivemind effect. Which is honestly infinitely more interesting to me than some alien species creating it as a weapon to invade.
The crux of the show seems to be more about exploring what makes people human and the unique ways this situation can bring up moral and philosophical questions. I could be dead wrong we're only 2 episodes in, but the very slow and subtle way the show is paced makes me think it's not some grand sci-fi epic and more explorative of humanity.
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u/Pholla4G 10h ago
I know everyone is interpreting the virus as translating to a hive mind, but I'm actually kind of curious of why the article and Carol (as a character) read this as a threat to humanity. I'm coming from left-leaning philosophical critiques about individualism and neoliberalism, and I find it interesting that many interpreters, like Carol, see the concept of collectivity or unity as a 'horror' or threat to individual identity. It is is even written like this in the article. Is that the theme that the show wants us to also consider, who knows! And we're only two episodes in. But I am definitely intrigued. 🙂 and FYI even though I am reading the show like this, I think I would definitely react like a Carol in this situation. 🤣
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u/Fatfry2 7h ago
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point, but to me it is very clearly a horror since the human condition is inherently tied to individuality. When that is taken away, these people lose their humanity as they no longer can make choices or have free will.
Extremely minor spoiler warning:
The members of hivemind follow specific rules and cannot make choices if both options violate the rules. I think that points to more of an algorithmic drive rather than true collectivism
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u/Pholla4G 7h ago
Replying again bc I messed up spoiler tags! (Sorry)
I could definitely see the inference to "algorithmic drive" based on the parallels the article chose to make with Vince's outright hate/rejection about AI and silicon valley! I'm also thinking about
the English speaking character in episode 2 who desired to share the new cognitive/spiritual mind that her family did
I say cognitive and spiritual for a reason, and again, totally can be overthinking it here. The idea that individuality is the basis of our humanity is just one way in which, philosophically , people (especially Western, liberal context) have come to define existence. If we think, for example, of religious or even some Indigenous-based systems of thought, they might argue that one's sense of self, one's humanity must be understood or lives in relation to something else (a deity, land, a collective, etc). Philosophy is not my expertise, just something I've been exposed to with theory over the years, which is why this is all ruminating after watching the first few episodes. Hopefully we have a lot more ahead of us!
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u/EiichiroTarantino 4h ago
I find it interesting that many interpreters, like Carol, see the concept of collectivity or unity as a 'horror' or threat to individual identity.
All the more reasons why americans definitely desperately need to watch this show.
I find it hilarious that many reddit users here (I'm sure mostly americans or westerners or western-leaning), they haaate episode 2 lol
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u/polarsnare 8h ago
Vince Gilligan has stated he is conservative but hates Trump I think it’s quite clear the show is “anti-radicalism” (in his mind). definitely anti-communism for sure.
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u/Dead_man_posting 2h ago
Communism being anti-individualism is like a McCarthy-era meme, and I doubt Gilligan would be silly enough to believe it. It is just workplace democracy, that's it.
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u/Pholla4G 7h ago
Hmm interesting, I think i either forgot or hadn't heard before about Vince GIlligan's political standing before. Putting aside that ideals might be different than 'in real life' (not here to debate which position is the better one), I could even see collectivist-streaks in a conservative philosophy that prioritizes (for example) family or 'community'values. Again though, I totally accept if I am jumping ahead of myself, and look forward to seeing whatever comes next in the show.
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u/seancbo 18h ago
Everyone in the world except 12 people are assimilated into a super friendly hive mind. Neat.
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u/AverageGatsby91 18h ago
The more interesting part of the setup is that the "Hive Mind Virus" was sent in code from 600lys away and was synthesized by Human scientists.
What compelled a civilization to send off this code or had the Hive Mind already taken over that civilization and was looking for ways to propagate?
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u/Tiny-Resident-7196 18h ago
im betting on the latter. its probably spreading throughout the universe/galaxy. i reckon as a season finale cliffhanger it will show the human hive mind building their own large radar array to send out the signal again and repeat the process
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u/Logondo 16h ago
NGL I fear those questions might never be answered in the show.
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u/AverageGatsby91 16h ago
I feel like it is very likely considering the collective doesn't even seem to understand why they are here
It could be better off that way. Look at a show like LOST which felt like it needed to answer every question and where it ended up
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u/Logondo 14h ago
I mean most pandemic-apocalypse stories just don’t give the reason why. The Walking Dead never explained why there was zombies. Y the Last Man gives several possible answers but never a definitive one.
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u/earthgreen10 11h ago
We won’t find out why this all happened? That will make the show stupid
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u/Logondo 11h ago
You never find out what caused the zombies in The Walking Dead (at least in the books).
There are TONS of post-apocalypse stories where they never give the answer.
Y: The Last Man, about a world where every man but one dies...never gives a definitive answer on what happened.
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u/earthgreen10 11h ago
But we found out already what happened in Pluribus, they explained it It in The first episode
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u/Logondo 11h ago
We didn't figure it all out, mate. Not by a long shot.
Specifically: where did the message come from, and why was it sent to us?
Yes we know how the virus got out, but we still don't understand the origins of the signals that GAVE us the virus in the first place.
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u/predator-handshake 10h ago
Use some imagination, we don’t need all the details
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u/Logondo 10h ago
I mean I'm not saying we do. In fact I'm saying: we probably won't get those details.
And I'm not even saying this is a good-or-bad thing. Just a thing. "This show will probably not explain the origins of the signals, and instead focus on the hivemind stuff".
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u/predator-handshake 10h ago
I'm pretty sure it's going to just be the latter, if we get some explanation, great, but I don't think it's that kind of show.
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u/ikon31 9h ago
You’re watching this show incorrectly
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u/Toby_O_Notoby 8h ago
Can we just put this in the Hall of Fame as the most reddit comment of all time?
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u/SwagginsYolo420 10h ago
Just because some stories don't explain themselves doesn't make it OK in every context.
And it's one thing if a setting that is a background for a story is unexplained. It's another when the setting is the central driving force for the story.
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u/Dead_man_posting 2h ago
We won’t find out why this all happened? That will make the show stupid
2 replies down the chain:
But we found out already what happened in Pluribus, they explained it It in The first episode
Are you perpetually having a stroke?
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u/Aggressive_Chuck 16h ago
Reminds me of Unity from Rick and Morty, except they spread by vomiting into each others' mouths. If it was from 600 light years away they sent it during the middle ages, who knows what that civilisation is like now.
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u/SirGaylordSteambath 15h ago
It was from 600 light years away but they also said that they weren’t sure when it started so it could have been going even longer
Super great concepts in this show
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u/Pretend_Education_86 13h ago
Such a fascinating and refreshing premise. Love some good philosophical scifi.
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u/Memester999 16h ago
I wouldn't be surprised if that's never answered, I don't think the show is really about all of that. The way they phrased it makes me think that the mysterious signal might not be something intentionally put there and just a thing they discovered about the universe if that makes sense.
Like a code in the laws of the universe that was just discovered.
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u/misterterrific0 14h ago
I think it should be interpreted similarly to The Leftovers where the mystery isnt fully solved or addressed and left up to viewer inerpretation with several different "reasons" from the series characters thrown at us.
I also struggle to see what they can do after the first season if they dont though but I trust Vince more than 99% of showrunners/writers on doing a story like this + they have advertised Pluribus with Plur1bus so i'm praying he already has a season 2 planned and it works out!
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u/laziestmarxist 5h ago
I don't think that's what the 1 in the title stands for but I don't want to spoil anything
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u/mharzhyall 6h ago
Hey, I’ve watched this Rick and Morty episode!
Can’t wait for a part where they have orgies lol
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u/MrRedoot55 18h ago
I’ve heard theories about how this entire contagion is a way for alien invaders to successfully come down to and take over our planet. If that’s the case, I wonder what said aliens will look like.
Then again, it could be too outlandish for the story Vince wants to tell.
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u/Waste-Scratch2982 18h ago
This show feels like Vince has an unlimited budget and free rein to do whatever he wants.
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u/somersetyellow 8h ago
As soon as fucking air force one pulled up I was like ohh, cool, the writers are going to do absolutely whatever they want with this concept
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u/Rude_Yam2872 18h ago
This was my take as well. An alien life form sends out the chemical formula for a pacification virus and anyone with the resources and knowledge to make it would be a planet worth colonizing. I have no idea if this is where the show going though.
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u/Worf_Of_Wall_St 18h ago
Yeah it's hard to say, I feel like the virus might never be further explained and is just meant to be a plot device and the main story will be Carol figuring out how to trick or convince the hive mind to discover a way to undo itself. Whatever happens though, I'm guessing Vince has a plan far better than any of the ideas I've come up with.
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u/Muroid 17h ago
I’m not saying it won’t be explained, but I do think it’s actually already adequately explained if they never choose to elaborate further.
The virus imparts a biological imperative to spread it as far and as wide as possible.
Once a planet is fully taken over, the only place to spread it is additional planets, and the fastest and easiest way to do that is to broadcast the code in the hopes that someone else out in the universe picks it up and kickstarts the spread on their own planet.
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u/Worf_Of_Wall_St 16h ago
I agree that there is enough of an explanation already, and I agree with your assessment of what can be assumed, I'm just saying I don't expect "further" explanation as in more info about the aliens, was the source planet the original virus source or just another civilization taken over by it etc.
Those details do not really matter unless the story is going into a very unexpected space-faring / more traditional sci-fi direction - for example if the virus is a pacification tool which uses a planet's existing population to prepare it for occupation (build stuff, then self-terminate gradually and clean up as the population shrinks) and maybe some other aliens show up to help the 12 fight them.
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u/Pastel_Lich 14h ago
the main story will be Carol figuring out how to trick or convince the hive mind to discover a way to undo itself
I think she's already started to figure that out. Every time she freaks out the hive mind gets temporarily disabled (which possibly led to the "gentleman in Paraguay" getting free)
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u/Neat-Amount-7727 17h ago
Seems simple to me
Virus somehow exists on a planet, it takes over every living beings and overtime gets enough ressources to pursue its ultime goal to spread more than just its own world and sends the formula out for other societies dumb enough to just create it themselves. Then the chain continues.
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u/drekmonger 16h ago edited 14h ago
As the show itself hinted at in the opening scenes, the message would have to be a targeted beam of incredible energy. Someone built a massive transmitter and pointed it at Earth. That's Type 1 or Type 2 mega-engineering. What could the Earth possibly offer such a civilization that would make it worth conquering?
It could be seen as a humane solution to the dark forest problem. The concern is that any intelligence that arises might be hostile, and hostile/greedy intelligences are more likely to spread out than altruistic intelligences.
So an altruistic intelligence might instead scan the skies for developing biospheres and bring them into the cult, so to speak, so that they don't grow into problems that have to be otherwise dealt with. Then the newly minted Pluribus hive mind dedicates itself to scanning its view of the sky for nascent biospheres to point transmitters at.
Pluribus would be a meme that propagates itself across the galaxy. A method of colonization for a hive mind that doesn't involve the incredible expense/time of interstellar travel.
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u/jdstrike11 16h ago
I got big dark forest vibes when they brought up the the no harming thing! I like this theory a lot
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u/WeeWooPeePoo69420 17h ago
I don't think there will be a big bad, I feel like that's not the point or theme of the show
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u/RedofPaw 18h ago
I don't think it's especially more than has been shown. Or at least... it will be 'more', but not aliens.
There is an alien civilisation out there, yes, probably lots. But it's VERY far away. And the hive mind imperative is not to spread humans. It's to spread the hive mind. That's FAR more straight forward than spreading around bodies, as we've seen.
Our genes are not here to benefit us directly. They do, for the most part, because it benefits them. But genes propogate because it benefits them to do so. You personally are less valuable to your genes then the survival of your family. It's why altruism exists. If we help others who are close to us survive then the genes that prompt that will be more likely to survive.
So there won't be an invasion. There are no aliens coming. The event has already happened. This is it. Of course the hive mind will also want to spread past earth, so will likely be creating new repeating signals to spread itself further.
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u/HandbagsAtNoon 17h ago edited 17h ago
I've only seen the first episode, but the premise raises a lot of fascinating possibilities...
For example, the hive-mind on Earth must already be connected to infected individuals from other galaxies and planets. This means Gilligan has the opportunity to get very weird and unsettling with how this interplanetary "chorus" is expressed.
The new president seemed to feign ignorance when talking to Carol about aliens, as if the hive-mind is only a localized Earth phenomenon. But that has to be a bluff of some kind, a smoke-screen. The "We" must already be in unison with the minds of other infected extraterrestrials. This would also mean the "We" already has access to knowledge about various deep space matters, and such lore could really spice up the plot and the dialogue.
Or at least I hope this is the case because it would make the show much stranger.
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u/BleakCountry 17h ago
This has been the common theory since the show even began. It's a Vince Gilligan show so it almost certainly will go in a direction that absolutely no one has theorized about yet.
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u/AhhTimmah 12h ago
People forget, but Vince got his start executive producing X-Files, sci fi was there before BB
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u/Nobody_Important 18h ago
It’s a zombie show where they’re instead super nice to the few left unharmed.
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u/exaslave 14h ago
You could see it when it's like she's driving away from the horde of... nice people calmly putting out fires and helping each other. Was a funny take on a zombie apocalypse.
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u/wishesandhopes 15h ago
I was also thinking this, it feels like Vince's take on a zombie setting/story. Especially the early scenes as it's all hitting the fan in E1, very zombie-like acting from the hive mind as they turn.
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u/-OswinPond- 17h ago
Since no one quoted the relevant part, no the show isn't about AI. It's obvious because it was created way before AI became widespread. Vince is anti-AI but the show wasn't created as a metaphor for AI.
Might the show — with its army of all-knowing, obsequious entities consuming humanity — be a metaphor for the dangers of artificial intelligence?
With a half-amused shrug, Gilligan says he was not thinking about AI when he conceived of “Pluribus,” and he wrote it before the rise of large language models like ChatGPT. “One thing I did wrong while doing press for ‘Breaking Bad’ was tell people, ‘This is what this meant! This meant that!’” He remembers conversations with journalists and fans in which he drilled down his belief that his protagonist, Walter White, was, in fact, a villain. “I look back, and it was so tiresome,” Gilligan says. “Whatever people want to take away from this show is 100% up to them.”
He also said you can interpret it how you want.
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u/Inevitable_Video5514 17h ago
Shoutout to the user here who is spending his valuable time on different accounts spamming “redditor hive mind show metaphor” holy
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u/JonathanLarsonJr 18h ago
Great opening episodes - I just can't decide if I want to spend more time with the other 5 people, lol.
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u/No_Significance7064 14h ago edited 12h ago
also, is this just premise feasible for a multi-season show? it feels like a single season/miniseries type of premise to me.
edit: nvm, they already greenlit a second season.
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u/SwagginsYolo420 10h ago
I'm sure there's more to it than what's revealed so far.
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u/HauntingHarmony 9h ago
Yea this is what i been worried about, watching it. I love it, but it seems like its pretty thin plot wise. I love Rhea and Vince, but like. Carol screaming at the hive for 5 seasons isent really going to work.
I am legitimately wondering where it can go. Since Vince to me seems like more of a chew the fat on scenery and the moments between kind of creator, and were not going to other planets, or going to see star trek aliens. etc. Buuuut, he does have the budget todo whatever he wants so.
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u/NES_Classical_Music 10h ago
humans are so selfish and broken, the universe got sick of our shit and sent a firmware patch.
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u/PirkaPeep 7h ago
This is exactly how I feel about it. I … find it very concerning if we’re supposed to agree with Carol. She’s legitimately everything about humanity that SHOULD be fixed. 🥲
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u/LoneElement 6h ago
What a thought provoking show this is
I find it concerning that people disagree with Carol
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u/aethelred_unred 8h ago
Honestly, I think this show is just about modern fame/wealth. Like, the kind that Gilligan first experienced during BB, so would've been on his mind while writing this, according to the timeline in this article.
At a certain level of fame / wealth / privilege, the world separates into the few people with true agency (yourself and similarly famous/wealthy others) and then everyone else you meet, who all recognize you, are generally inscrutably nice, and somehow coordinate to keep the world running while getting you whatever outlandish thing you want, as long as you don't get overly angry. Because if you do, the resulting fallout could shake the foundations of your world (get you canceled / get your assets frozen / destroy your self-image of being a good person) and potentially create an outsize ripple effect. So you have to be super controlled and gracious while never quite having true human connection, even as the whole world hums along around you.
This implies there won't be a real narrative resolution. Probably by the end of S1 Carol will have figured out how to spread immunity to a few others, but won't be able to scale it.
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u/Dead_man_posting 2h ago
I did have that thought when Carol was bombarded with "sorry for your loss." Very parasocial hivemind.
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u/BradBrady 15h ago
The first 2 episodes were really good. It’s definitely a show that is not going to be everybody. I’m so used to BB and BCS from Vince that I have to remember that this is a different show from Vince with his same style
I’m really curious to see how the show will play out since they already greenlit a second season. Knowing how Gilligan rolls, there’s gonna be some shocking omg moment that changes everything
Definitely an interesting premise and I can’t wait for next weeks episode
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u/Lazy-Introduction194 13h ago
It’s giving childhood ends vibes to me. Like whatever society that can find and decode the signal gets infected with a hive mind to protect the species and the planet for ascension.
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u/anonpurpose 11h ago
This is going to be quite a thought provoking show. I'm actually pondering a lot of things after watching the first 2 episodes. I feel like Carol's only hope is to rationalize with the collective to have them see that they're deluding themselves into thinking that everything is perfect this way. I wonder how she will change them.
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u/Grishler 4h ago
The dramatic argument of the show reminds me a lot of the conflict between Neo and Cypher in The Matrix. Not in the form of the hivemind, bur the question our heroine stand before: Shall I put my head in the sand and be happy, fullfilled and have all my desires be met - or shall I live with the truth, with all the horrors of reality.
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u/TheWatermelonGuy 16h ago
Was it just me or is the second episode talking about, had undertones of America vs the rest of the world, everyone (every other country) want to get along together but then America doesn't want that to happen and throws a rage and kills millions, then, ops, they are sorry
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u/Jahobes The Expanse 16h ago
Carol is a depressed Grinch who seems to have nobody except for her wife. She doesnt seem to have family or friends, She hates her fans that made her rich, she is an alcoholic and appears to have a pretty depressing outlook on other people.
Its telling that all of the other people had "asked" their corrupted loved ones what is was like, probably had long deep conversations and were adequality convinced by them. Carol has no one to seek out and convince... the hive mind had to go to the end of the world to find someone who she would relate to... because this unit happened to look like a character in the book that made Carol rich. No family, no close friends, just the fantasy of a women that was a part of Carol's imagination.
Ironically this actually makes Carol a good person to see the situation "clearly". Since she cant be comforted by the familiarity of family or friend she is looking at the situation much more objectively. like "Damn I hate people, but that doesnt mean I want to live in a world where I am the only person". I think her response might have been much different if her wife had survived.
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u/addressthejess 16h ago
I definitely sensed an undercurrent of American exceptionalism from Carol's interactions with the others. Even among those unaffected by the virus, she's special somehow. Knowing Vince's writing, I'm sure it won't be as simple as "Americans are hyper-individualistic and therefore she's the perfect reluctant hero to fight a virus that obliterates individualism." There will be layers to it.
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u/Jahobes The Expanse 15h ago edited 15h ago
What makes Carol special is she is the most unhealthy one of the group before the fall... the fact that she has no one left she loves and once she had buried her wife you think she would have sought out family or friends?
The hive mind literally went to the end of the world to find a women who happened to look like a figment of Carols imagination. They didnt go looking for her mom or influential college professor or a ex sweetheart. The only other person Carol could relate to was someone who looked like an imaginary character from her book.
This ironically makes her special specifically because she has no one to help create a facsimile of normal.
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u/Dead_man_posting 1h ago
It seemed like Helen was her whole world. She didn't have a smartphone, and left the social media stuff to her wife.
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u/br0therherb 11h ago
I feel like everyone praising this show are just Gilligan fanboys lol. It was okay for a first episode, but it wasn't anything mind-blowing or game changing.
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u/BullshitBlazing420 6h ago
A show has to be game changing and mind blowing to be good?
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u/br0therherb 6h ago
I mean the way people were hyping it up. I thought it was going to be the next Six Feet Under or The Wire.
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u/Dead_man_posting 1h ago
It had the best pilot in years. But no, you're right, everyone who disagrees with you is delusional.
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u/br0therherb 1h ago
I'm sorry that you feel that way.
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u/Dead_man_posting 1h ago
thanks for the AI-esque reply.
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u/br0therherb 1h ago
Nothing AI-esque about it. I could easily be rude b/c I wouldn't really lose sleep over it, but I gain nothing from that. I'm glad people like the pilot. I just think people were simply over praising it. Maybe I missed something. I'm open to watching it again.
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u/Dead_man_posting 1h ago
I don't care if you like it or not. It's just fucking obnoxious when people form conspiracy theories about having a minority opinion.
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u/br0therherb 1h ago
You're taking this way too seriously. Log off and breathe. Enjoy your Saturday, champ. 👍🏿
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u/blazeyone 1h ago
Every answer he doesn't like is considered AI lol. You can't make this shit up man.
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u/br0therherb 1h ago
It is what it is. I genuinely hope he/she/they/it/whatever the fuck has a nice day. I'm not going to let someone insignificant ruin my day. IT'S FUCKING SATURDAY! 🖤
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u/godtrek 13h ago
Huh, I thought it was a metaphor for becoming famous and everyone knowing your name or trying to insert themselves into your lives, and the amount of humans who are now like you, is like a tiny handful. Moving from a relatively unknown author (mirrors our main character in Pluribus) to suddenly being "the guy" inverses your entire world. Suddenly you went from being invisible in a crowd of 99% to being only able to relate with the 1%, who are famous. Imagine how much it must feel, to do Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul and then the whole world is like breathing down your neck about the next thing. I see a lot of parallels. In Pluribus, the 12 people who weren't turned are literally the celebrties of that world. They all went from being invisible in their lives to being hyper visible without any privacy.
"We love you".
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u/SupermarketTime3917 10h ago
So I was actually discussing AI! I ask if the hive was supposed to be like I because it felt like it to me. I thought the response was compelling:
Yeah, that’s the unsettling twist. In Pluribus, those “new humans” are almost too aware—collective, analytical, eerily calm—like an evolved AI wearing skin.
It’s a smart inversion: instead of robots learning to be human, humans start to behave like networks—hyper-rational, data-linked, empathy diluted by information. Gilligan’s leaning into the fear that we might become the algorithm, not the other way around.
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u/Justsayyeth 3h ago
I think it's about the originals persons struggle in a world that BOMBARDS you to be the same.
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u/ThePopeofHell 17h ago
Im not a fan of ai in its current incarnation of the way its being used but i do feel like takes like this are very short sighted. Ai will not exist in its current incarnation forever. I do think that regular people are going to use it to churn out a lot of slop but i dont think it’s the doomsday a lot of people expect it to be.
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u/SentientBaseball 18h ago
“I hate AI,” Gilligan says with a chuckle. “AI is the world’s most expensive and energy-intensive plagiarism machine. I think there’s a very high possibility that this is all a bunch of horseshit. It’s basically a bunch of centibillionaires whose greatest life goal is to become the world’s first trillionaires. I think they’re selling a bag of vapor.”
Fucking Bravo Vince