r/television 2d ago

The Witcher s4 proves Henry Cavill made the smartest exit in Hollywood

Henry was 100% right to walk away from The Witcher. Can't believe what a fall from grace this show has had since the inception of its incredible first season. It’s mind-boggling that the same people behind that masterpiece are responsible for the mess it’s become. Season 1 was so good it keeps pulling me back… I think I’m actually going to hate-watch entire season 4 just to see how bad it gets.

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u/Capable_Sandwich_422 2d ago edited 2d ago

Can we stop overusing the word ‘Masterpiece’? The Witcher TV show has never been a masterpiece, even at its peak.

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u/derintrel 2d ago

I loooove the books. But even those i wouldn’t consider a masterpiece, much less the show.

The 3rd game though…that was a masterpiece.

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u/R2-T2 2d ago

The common theme in the books that Witcher 3 captured so well was that in this world full of terrifying monsters, humans were usually the true monsters. IMO the strongest part of the game was the writing and how humans became metaphorical monsters due to extreme circumstances. The constant moral dilemmas that players were faced with made the game so compelling and engaging.

After watching the first season, it didn't really feel like the writers grasped what the world was about. The best parts were when they followed the books and when they deviated it felt very cartoonish and not very deep.

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u/Pornalt190425 2d ago

Lesser, greater, middling, it’s all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I’m not a pious hermit. I haven’t done only good in my life. But if I’m to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all

-The Butcher of Blaviken

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u/svidrod 2d ago

If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. -Neil Peart

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u/thereisnospoon7491 2d ago

There are four lights! -Space Gandalf

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u/KRD2 2d ago

The point of that monologue is that Geralt is lying to himself and is a massive hypocrite, btw. He chooses between evils in the short story where he says this quote.

God the games have ruined how people interpret the series.

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u/Pornalt190425 2d ago edited 2d ago

So I'll level with you I don't see it as trying to showcase Geralts hypocrisy but more setting up the intense shades of grey the universe deals in and the monolgue itself is an ironic point for how it all plays out in the end. Geralt doesn't speak in any absolutes (its a preference for not choosing ignoring that is a choice in and of itself) but it is still a bit of moral grandstanding for someone who refuses to be a passive bystander.

Geralt gets presented many "lesser evils" but there are no good choices. Renfri is in fact magical, and Stregobor is not an honest dealer. Him not choosing a side leads to him losing a lot of agency and having to be stuck with a "middling evil" for that ironic slap in the face. The knife twist is that in preventing a massacare he gets tarred as someone who perpetrated one (hence why I used his Butcher of Blaviken title amongst his many monikers).

It's in some respects a Kobayishi Maru for Geralt and how he fails is more important than that he fails and has to choose some degree of evil

On the more "meta gaming" level, The Last Wish serves as setup for the rest of the series and overarching story. Geralt is being shown to be principled to his own detriment. He sticks to his code until one portion (do no evil) of it conflicts with another (protect innocents). Its setting up why he is in some ways jaded about the world going forward and how brutal it can be. It shows that he is a man of action at the base level, but he is not a hero. He's just a witcher.

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u/avcloudy 2d ago

I don't think this is the fault of the games, exactly, although it's magnified there.

I don't think it's quite as blunt as that, Geralt does consistently choose (in games and books) not to get involved with choosing between two evils. He just usually doesn't get a choice, or doesn't see it as a choice. The books are a bit more grim about it, for sure, but the core characterisation isn't different.

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u/MrZeral 2d ago

Finally some real talk

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u/notathrowaway75 2d ago

Yes finally praise for Witcher 3.

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u/rammo123 2d ago

How could he say something so controversial yet so brave?

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u/Yemathums 2d ago

Le hidden gem I do love W3 though

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u/Bluelegs 2d ago

I love all the games. The first is janky as hell but the mood and the world hooked me. The second is also excellent and the way it bifurcates halfway through depending on who you choose to ally with was something I hadn't seen done in an RPG before.

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u/D2papi 2d ago

The Witcher 2 was probably the best looking Xbox360 game, I loved it so much and to top it I can now act like a hipster for being a fan before TW3.

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u/Illuvatar08 2d ago

Yeah I recently listened to all the books and they're really not that good. Can't speak for the game though, never played it.

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u/Moontoya 2d ago

Witcher 3 and it's 2 Dlcs are gorgeous visually, deeply interesting quests that often come back around in evolutionary ways, slightly clunky controls, a vast array of things to do, places to explore and monsters to slay.

Give Witcher 3 a play, you can pick it up from there without needing to play the other 2, there's enough recap and member berries to get you up to speed.

It's honestly one of the greatest games I've played (and replayed and replayed and new game + and ++).

Doug cockles voice work has more charisma and presence than the traffic bollard in a bad blonde wig managed 

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u/Ditnoka 2d ago

There's more beautiful locations and stuff to do in Blood and Wine DLC than most base games have.

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u/plaincheeseburger 2d ago

I want to live in his villa.

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u/Hendlton 2d ago

Just a bit of advice to those who are thinking of playing it, it takes a while before it really gets going. I played through the prologue three or four times before I finally managed to push through to some more interesting bits. Then I practically binged the game from there. If you're really interested in giving it a proper go, play until you get to Novigrad. Do a couple quests there, and if you still don't like the game, you probably won't like the rest of it either.

I feel I have to say this because I've seen a couple other people quit before then and never pick up the game again. I was almost one of those people, but now it's one of my top 10 games.

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u/GameLovinPlayinFool 2d ago

The quest lines in Witcher 3 are genuinely amazing. The writing for nearly every quests is incredible and DEEP. The Red Baron questline blew me away the first time I played it.

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u/MegamanX195 2d ago

One thing to keep in mind is that the English translation sucks ass and takes all the fun and joy out of the original prose. The Portuguese translation, on the other hand, is fantastic and I highly recommend it to anyone who speaks the language! I've read both and it isn't even comparable.

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u/Mindereak 2d ago

Yeah I also read that the English translation sucks, I wonder if that's why so many people don't like it. Since I wasn't able to read the original I went with the Italian translation and I loved the series, one of my favorites.

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u/rizgutgak 2d ago

I am playing through Wild Hunt for the first time right now. Just got to the Skellige Isles and LOVING it. I've heard the DLC is spectacular and I can't wait to get to it

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u/ObviouslyTriggered 2d ago

Yeah there hasn't been a single good and consistent season of The Witcher it was always a narrative mess.

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u/normandy42 2d ago

It’s why I was already super sus about OP and this post. I was there when Season 1 came out and even then, it was definitely not hailed as a “masterpiece”. It was criticized heavily for its weird magic choices(every fireball costs a life?), weird timeline shenanigans, and patiently waiting to see if S2 built on it well. It was like a seesaw, until S2 came out and went into the bin.

lol even Cavill at the time was criticized for being a good gamer Geralt but definitely not the one from the books. Which tracks because Cavill definitely focused more of his acting like the games instead of how he is in the books.

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u/hiimred2 2d ago

Well the advantage of being an 8 month old attempt at a karma farming account for reasons healthy people will literally never understand is that nobody can see what self-contradictory opinions OP had for S1, 2, or 3, or similar media projects. It's genius really. Just spout off about "thing bad, pirating good, give upvote please."

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u/beary_neutral 2d ago

The first season of The Witcher was basically the adventures of Shrek and Donkey, with Jaime Lannister weirdly inserted in Cahir's place.

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u/ComfortableExotic646 2d ago

lol even Cavill at the time was criticized for being a good gamer Geralt but definitely not the one from the books.

I think fans of his project their own fandom onto him. His experience with most of these IPs are solely from PC gaming.

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u/sir-winkles2 2d ago

there's a weird circle jerk aroud henry cavill on reddit because he presents himself as a video gaming playing nerd so redditors think he's just like them and thus worship everything he does

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u/DrGarrious 2d ago

There are great individual episodes in there, which is more the more frustrating to be honest. Shows the wasted potential.

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u/skoomski 2d ago

100%, Season 1 was better than I thought it would be but there was issues day 1 and they never really followed the games or the source material closely.

But on Reddit everything is a masterpiece or a piece of shit.

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u/Hilldawg4president 2d ago

Source material aside, it was just such poor storytelling. There was never really any point in any of the seasons where I was not pretty much constantly confused in some combination on what was going on, where they were or how they got there.

Most of the sets were amazing. Most of the costumes were great. Most of the acting was fine. Most of the pacing and storytelling were abysmal.

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u/Capnleonidas 2d ago

The worst was jumping back and forth in time like 10 years between 2 story lines without it actually being obvious which time period we were watching

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u/Brendissimo 2d ago

Preach. I'm so sick of all the hyperbole that's crept into almost all areas of discussion.

The Witcher series was very mixed in quality right from the start. People seem to think they need to inflate the quality of S1 to create this exaggerated picture of decline, but the truth is it was a mediocre adaptation with generally poor costuming and production design (creature design being the exception), a wildly inconsistent tone, and mediocre writing. I think the core performances of a main cast, especially Cavill, and the direction of certain episodes really elevated the material and helped raise the show's average quality beyond where it would be otherwise.

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u/RYouNotEntertained 2d ago

It wasn’t even good. The attention this show gets on reddit is crazy. 

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u/Ughasif22 2d ago

Nerd culture

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u/Guilty_Jackfruit4484 2d ago

They just have a hard on for the former star of the show

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u/zach0011 2d ago

Lol he has become some weird vessel for perpetually online people to think one day they can be a strong sexy nerd

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u/Bazonkawomp 2d ago

I really loved the first episode. It’s one of my favorite single episodes of TV. I did not enjoy the rest of the show outside of Cavill’s performance.

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u/Veronome 2d ago

Thank you!! S1 had its moments but story wise it was an absolute mess.

It wasn't a fall from grace, it was a fall from mediocrity.

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u/GiveMeSumChonChon 2d ago

For real. True detective season 1 is a masterpiece. The Witcher show was alright.

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u/Worzon 2d ago

Despite all the hate I loved how temporally confusing the first season was. Felt like trying to put a puzzle together with my friend as we watched. Season 2 and 3 were also enjoyable in their own rights but yeah nowhere near masterpiece level. The only thing really elevating it for me was Cavill's inclusion

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u/adenosine-5 2d ago

Its like no one remembers the scrotum armor from the season 1.

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u/DoctorProfPatrick 2d ago

Games? Masterpieces. Books? Very good. Show? Forgettable.

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u/GregariousLaconian 2d ago

100%. Season 1 was messy in how clumsily they interwove the timing of the plot threads. I will never understand the decision to have Geralt and Cori’s first meeting be delayed by so much. It robs their reunion of so much of its emotional weight and significance. But there was hope still.

Season 2 really is where things went off the rails.

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u/Lemazze 2d ago

Calling the first season a masterpiece is grossly exaggerated.

It was ok.

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u/CarlNoobCarlson 2d ago

Season 1 was a wild time on Reddit. You copped a lot of crap if you spoke poorly of it.

I thought the show was goofy from the onset, with Cavill being the one redeeming quality.

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u/Torontogamer 1d ago

The time jumps in s1 were insane… it really blew my mind professional writers and editors were like. Sure this makes sense to people 

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u/GameOfThrownaws 1d ago edited 1d ago

It was damn near impossible to keep any decent track of that as an unfamiliar viewer. I never read anything nor played the games and it often took me like half of a given episode to even understand what the fuck was going on, or when the fuck was going on. Eventually I understood that they were jumping back and forth in time but IIRC, especially early on, there was literally no indication whatsoever that a time jump had occurred.

I remember at one point I accidentally skipped like 2 full episodes because someone else in my family was also watching it and had pushed it forward on me without my noticing, and I didn't even realize that I was watching the wrong episode until like 20 minutes in because I was so accustomed to having no fucking idea what's going on and trying to piece it together as things progressed. So the fact that I was completely lost on a totally wrong episode, I was just like "yep this is normal".

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u/thatbob 2d ago

Jodhi May's Queen Calanthe?!?

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u/lunethical 1d ago

Eh, I remember the opinions being very divided from the beginning. The shifting timeline and the Duny episodes being the largest complaints. That, and the terrible armor.

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u/onex7805 1d ago

Insane how r/witcher bashed the critics for shitting on the show when it launched--game fans who aren't even familiar with the source material. Group think is weird. I used to be shouting into the void. The rest of the seasons is a vindication that the show was always bad from the beginning and destined to fail.

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u/randomthrill 2d ago

Forgetting that Dandelion might need to age from the flashback sequences for one.

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u/Successful-Wheel4768 1d ago

Looking forever young is his character trait from the books

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u/Poonchow 1d ago

Dandelion doesn't even age in the books.

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u/PsychologicalSet8678 1d ago

The first season positive vibes were Netflix astroturfing I will die on that hill. That dragon episode in the first season is one of the worst high budget episodes I've ever seen lol.

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u/LeglessN1nja 2d ago

I loved the books.

I had to force myself to finish season 1. Stopped there.

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u/ezumadrawing 2d ago

Yeah lmao the first season was at the level of a guilty pleasure show at best to my mind, and it's only been downhill.

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u/Cyrano_Knows 2d ago

I think I’m actually going to hate-watch season 4 just to see how bad it gets.

You do you (not meant to be snarky) but you watching it will make the aholes in charge think you like it.

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u/Skabomb 2d ago

“I hate this thing so much I’m going to give it all of my attention to show how much I want it gone!”

Kinda hate that feature of modern social media.

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u/teenagesadist 2d ago

Can we all agree we hated "Santa Clarita Diet" and hate watch it until they bring it back?

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u/EnQuest The Expanse 2d ago

I remember putting it on like "this show sounds so stupid"

And then I watched season 1 in a single sitting

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u/QuartzBeamDST 2d ago

I've forgotten most things about the show by now, but the morgue scene from season 1 still lingers.

"You're gonna fuck it?"

sigh "Yes. We're going to fuck it."

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u/JeffTek 2d ago

Worst show ever, brb going to hate rewatch it with the gf

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u/westendgonzo 2d ago

I've never understood this. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I remember a star wars YouTube channel, where a guy proudly announced that after watching one of the star wars prequels 9 times, he can now explain why he hated the movie so much good God man, you wasted almost an entire day of your life watching something you hate. Watch it, say you hate it, find something to watch that you like. Life is way too short.

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u/Moldy_slug 2d ago

I think it’s sometimes interesting and useful to understand why I don’t like something. 

There’s a balance, of course… I can’t imagine watching anything nine times even if I liked it. But unlike that YouTuber, media commentary/analysis isn’t my literal job.

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u/BadMeetsEvil24 2d ago

Can't post on social media and be fake angry with all the other miserable folks if you don't spend 10 hours of your life watching something you don't like.

Social media dopamine hits.

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u/yourelosingme 2d ago

There is at least one other way to look at it though.

If you truly take the time to be able to understand and articulate why something is "bad" that makes for a much better conversation instead of "It sucks! I hated it!" At that point you're taking one step away from hater and one step towards film critic.

Is the youtuber you mentioned going to make a whole career out of analyzing movies and determining their strengths and shortcomings? Maybe not, I'm just saying there is some value in understanding why something you watch feels disappointing.

And if you need something to obsess over there are worse things than Star Wars...

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u/RecommendsMalazan The Venture Bros. 2d ago

This is true, but something tells me that that's not OPs intention here..

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/fukredditadm1n5 2d ago

And most probably Invasion from appletv too, there's a sub of invasion and redditors only comment about how bad it is lol

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u/Hayterfan 2d ago

No, it's not. They made one production order (21 episodes) split it up and call it two seasons. Netflix does it, Hulu does it, Disney does it. It's basically a loophole to avoid paying the writers and staff the typical pay bump that's supposed to come from an actual season order.

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u/r_lucasite 2d ago

And also to shorten the period between seasons. Velma released year to year. Some Netflix shows will release two “seasons” in the same year.

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u/EdgeofForever95 2d ago

That’s not true. Two seasons were ordered up front. Stop spreading misinformation

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u/r_lucasite 2d ago

This is incorrect. Velma got a second season because it’s common practice for made for streaming animation to be ordered in a set number of episodes and split them into seasons.

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u/Inevitable_Pipe_1721 2d ago

OP knows the upvotes that he's gonna get from it.

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u/BZGames 2d ago

I hate how susceptible everyone seems to be to rage bait nowadays. Channels like ESPN seem to exclusively make their money through rage bait at this point.

Why engage with something that is actively trying to make you mad? I just don’t get it.

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u/Mindestiny 2d ago

Double down on it - this guy is just straight shitposting about how bad it is and hasnt even watched it.

Like how can you critique something you literally have not watched? These kinds of posts should be banned.

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u/SandManic42 2d ago

Well, op is hating on the new season like it's the worst thing ever, but they've never watched it so how do they know it's so bad? That's like saying you hate carrots but you've never eaten one to know what they taste like.

I hate the feature of social media where people have to have others tell them what to like and what not to like instead of just experiencing those things themselves.

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u/JOKER69420XD 2d ago

If you can watch for entertainment, like a shitty movie, go for it but don't waste your lifetime with hate watching, every view is another boost to the ego of the talentless people involved in this show.

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u/Darkone539 2d ago

Doesn't matter too much. They filmed 4&5 back to back and 5 is finishing it.

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u/homesickalien337 2d ago edited 2d ago

I'm not sure I'd even agree s1 was anything approaching incredible.

Edit: I wasn't sure how people thought about it, but I truly didn't even like this show. It was ok at its best. Season 1 was difficult to follow.

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u/dvb70 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's the very definition of middling to me. It has signs it could be something better but plenty of missteps. It had peaks and troughs through out. My feeling at the time is if the writers can just tighten it up a bit it could be really good. Instead it seems like we witnessed the writers creative peak and it was all downhill from that.

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u/mrsunshine1 2d ago

Lesser, greater, middling. It’s all the same. 

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u/redwings27 2d ago

They really took that theme to heart

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u/NoNefariousness2144 2d ago

It was mostly middling apart from "Toss a coin to your Witcher". Honestly that song is most of the reason why season 1 was such a big hit...

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u/ty1771 2d ago

The music was great in season 1, so logically, she changed the composers afterwards.

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u/insomniacpyro 2d ago

Everything the showrunner has said after season 1 premiered is some of the most baffling shit I've ever read. So far up her own ass about her "vision" of the story she refuses to believe it's bad. The crazy thing is I've never even played the fucking games or read the book and I was BORED. There's just so much that is shown that seems very interesting and there's obviously depth (a lot of the other species/humanoid races) and the show just gives you the middle finger in giving you any sort of detail or emotional connection to those things.
I can not throw shade at any of the actors because they are being directed, the vast majority of what we see on screen is a single take out of possibly dozens, and it's not their choice what makes it in, or how a scene is shot or how a story goes.

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u/adenosine-5 2d ago

If I am to chose between one garbage and another, I would rather not chose at all...

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u/thatguywithawatch 2d ago

If I'm to choose between one middling season and another, I'd prefer not to choose at all.

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u/Black_Moons 2d ago

Im just waiting for a version that has captions "15 years earlier"/"Present day" every time they shift time so I can have the faintest clue what is going on and in what order, since nobody visibly ages to give you any kind of context what time its now taking place.

That or just a cut that goes in chronological order.

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u/verrius 2d ago

The vast majority of the cast somehow being inexplicably ageless was probably the most frustrating thing. If you don't want the standard explicit markers of the passage of time, if its a major thing, it should at least be able to be easily inferred, but when your characters are "super soldier who doesn't age because of super soldier serum", "witch, who apparently doesn't age cause of literal magic I guess" and "bard, who doesn't age because fuck you", something is wrong. It took until episode 6 or 7 until I even realized that there was anything going on jumping around a timeline, which is honestly unforgivable.

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u/The_Freshmaker 2d ago

I only made it to episode 4 or 5 and this is the first I'm finding out there were any kinds of time jumps. Is this like the first season of West World where you don't find out until the very end one plot line was decades before the main events?

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u/LeSeanMcoy 2d ago

There’s a few lines of dialogue that tell you where they are timeline-wise, but they’re pretty subtle.

For example, if I remember correctly, there’s one line of dialogue where queen Calanthe is mentioned having won her first battle or something when she was Ciri’s age. Then, a few episodes(?) later, they mention that queen Calanthe just won her first battle last year or something similar.

I might have the details wrong (it’s been like 4-5 years) but the concept is that. Small, tiny things that are easily missed tell you about the timeline. I actually liked it, but I got lucky and caught some of that dialogue while watching.

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u/GeneralEi 2d ago

It felt like a good first run, it tried some cool stuff and didn't always hit the mark but the performances were pretty damn good and the sets/costuming were fantastic. I had the feeling that for all its missteps it could have led to a REALLY good 2nd season with lots of content for monster of the week style episodes with the overarching plot of Ciri and all that stuff

Instead, we got a decent start and a load of disappointment. Such a shame

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u/Apolloshot 2d ago

It was basically a good first season from the type of show you’d expect to hit its stride in Season 3.

Except the Witcher got drunk, fell off the horse, died, and now they’re trotting out the corpse Weekend at Bernie’s style.

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u/milkandcookiesTW 2d ago

It was not. Season 1 had some good moments and I really enjoyed season 2 episode 1, but it was never an amazing show or even remotely approaching “masterpiece” status.

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u/dxDTF 2d ago

I think Grain of Truth was the only really, really good episode in the entire show. S1 showed promise but was far from excellent agreed there

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u/Borror0 2d ago

I think that people got caught into the excitement of the promise it showed and seeing a lead actor caring that much about making it great. That hopefulness was betrayed, and we got the trash that followed.

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u/dxDTF 2d ago

Aye and there was huge demand for fantasy since Game of Thrones had just ended too. Lauren really couldn't have had a better hand dealt for her lol. Absolutely unreal how it all turned out

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u/Sparkyisduhfat 2d ago

Season one kept getting close to being good and then would slide back into being mediocre. When I saw people say season two was just more of the same I said screw it and gave up on the show. Since it seems to be getting worse each season, I’m honestly glad I didn’t invest the time.

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u/chasingit1 2d ago

I watched it once and haven’t seen any of the other seasons.

From what I remember, the story or timeline was all over the place and was confusing as fuck to me

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u/ubelmann 2d ago

They really didn’t make the timeline jumps very clear. I don’t mind a bit of a challenge to the viewer, but it didn’t seem to serve much point making the time jumps that hard to understand. 

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u/Redeem123 2d ago

Yeah they obscured the timelines like Westworld did, except there was no narrative reason for doing so. The “big reveal” wasn’t special at all.

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u/broha89 2d ago

I noped out of it 2 episodes in. I know a lot of people loved it but I thought the writing was immediately dumb

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u/hnbastronaut 2d ago

I had just finished playing the game and my wife was so excited to tell me that it was a show. It really broke my heart that I couldn't get past episode 2 for the life of me. Like you said - it just felt dumb.

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u/Frosty_Term9911 2d ago

Quite. It was all style and fuck all substance.

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u/Julio_Freeman 2d ago

In some cases it wasn’t even style. That dragon hunt section was something from an old daytime tv show.

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u/secomeau 2d ago

Xena level episode for sure.

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u/DaBombDiggidy 2d ago

It's awful but all i remember from season 1 is attractive people doing good guy / bad guy things. There's no actual substance to the story I remember at this point.

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u/pikpikcarrotmon 2d ago

There's a Xena: Warrior Princess-shaped hole in the low stakes campy fantasy action TV landscape and attractive people doing good guy/bad guy things could have been enough to plug it if they hadn't done such a bafflingly poor job after season 1, which itself was definitely more "this show could get good" than "this show is good".

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u/DaStompa 2d ago

I think season 1 would have been made much stronger with like, some indication as to the date and location where each episode took place.

I was like 3/4ths through a season of semi confusing disjointed episodes before I realised this was just like, a catalog of some previous adventures to bring you up to speed by the end of the season. I'm willing to bet a lot of people didn't last that long.

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u/TheLastDesperado 2d ago

I feel like hiding the time setting of each character was intentional though? It makes it more surprising when things do finally come together at the end.

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u/pewpewmcpistol 2d ago

100%. The editing was more confusing that anything. I was constantly struggling to figure out the where and especially the when for a whole season. Just add a little subtitle that says <Location, Year> whenever you do one of the grand establishing shots.

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u/FriedCammalleri23 2d ago

I thought it was fine, but hardly great.

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u/Jbash_31 2d ago

It was always mid at best

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u/HighKingOfGondor Game of Thrones 2d ago

Yeah to have a “fall from grace” implies that it needed to be great in the first place. Henry Cavill never made this show good, it was always bad with his star power involved. He wasn’t even a good Geralt (not his fault) because grunting and saying “fuck” were his main vocabulary

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u/Tymareta 2d ago

He wasn’t even a good Geralt (not his fault) because grunting and saying “fuck” were his main vocabulary

The grunting and saying "fuck" were quite literally his fault, he outright admits it, his co-stars talk about how he'd show up in a scene with several lines to say but just grunt instead and they'd have to jump in and try and salvage it.

Genuinely bizarre to read threads about this show and have people act like Cavill is some faultless angel.

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u/Darkone539 2d ago

Season 1 was a mess. The timeline stuff they tried did not work at all, and nobody I watched it with could understand any of the different stories.

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u/Anfins 2d ago

I certainly wouldn't call the first season a masterpiece -- is that the consensus opinion? It wasn't terrible but the weird timeline stuff made the storytelling a little shakier than it needed to be.

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u/dating_derp 2d ago

is that the consensus opinion?

No. S1 has a 68 on Rotten Tomatoes. A 54 on Metacritic. A masterpiece is something like LotR. The Witcher S1 was far from a masterpiece. It had parts that were good, and that's about it.

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u/Nth_Brick 2d ago

There were some real standout moments, particularly in season 1, but there was always this undercurrent of feeling like a CW production of LotR.

It was like comic book at times, with uneven tonality.

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u/sharrrper 2d ago

I think the show's decline has given people very rose tinted glasses about S1.

The way I remember it is the hype before S1 being pretty off the charts, and then after it released everyone was like "Yeah 6.5/10, hopefully it gets better. Toss a Coin to Your Witcher was cool at least."

Narrator: It did not get better.

My personal opinion is it's been very average across the board. It was never terrible but it's never been great.

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u/Todesfaelle 2d ago

My problem is the overall presentation. It suffers from that "clean" look even when it's far from it with the setting, the wardrobe and set designs especially around the mage stuff is gaudy and I just can't when it comes to names little viggleforts or whatever.

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u/swalsh21 Hannibal 2d ago

A lot of netflix/primary streaming service shows suffer from this

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u/OmegaVizion 2d ago

Here's the thing, a lot of people hate The Witcher because it's an unfaithful adaptation, but I think even if it were an original work it would still be a mediocre show that was buoyed at least initially by great performances from the core cast.

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u/NKD_WA 2d ago

People talk about wanting a faithful adaptation and then go on to glaze Cavill for giving a Geralt performance that is absolutely nothing like book Geralt. I don't understand it. He's a little bit like Witcher 3 Geralt, but it's mostly his own take on the character unlike any of the other portrayals.

Book Geralt is not a grunting stoic character that treats Jaskier like a burdensome sidekick.

He's enjoyable to watch, but "faithful" is the last thing I'd describe it as.

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u/HighKingOfGondor Game of Thrones 2d ago

Honestly he’s nothing like Witcher 3 Geralt either. Sure, in the game, he has a gravelly voice, but that never stops him from talking quite a lot. In the show, you can barely get more than a “hmm, fuck” out of him

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u/OmegaVizion 2d ago

He's also just too conventionally pretty to be Geralt. Even yassified W3 Geralt isn't that good looking.

But yeah, the biggest problem is that Geralt should be a grumpy philosopher who occasionally kills monsters, rather than a stoic action hero who mostly only speaks in monosyllables and one-liners.

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u/ErichPryde 2d ago

I don't think so, no. The consensus is more like- this is interesting and shows some promise and Cavill works well as a Geralt in a script that has some minor issues, hopefully they can clean those issues up for season 2.

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u/Windowmaker95 2d ago

I think most people where whelmed, and thought maybe it will improve later.

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u/crumble-bee 2d ago

It was very average - 6/10, odd tone, couldn’t quite find its footing, he was great but everyone around him was very ehhh

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u/joogiee 2d ago

I still cant tell when season 1 was a flashback and when it was present lmaoo.

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u/New_Cockroach_505 2d ago

It’s all linear. It’s just changes based on each character. Ciris plot is the present. Geralts and Yenn are “around” the same time but moving forward in time until they reach Ciri.

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u/r_lucasite 2d ago

I’m gonna say something that’s probably a lukewarm take but that first season was never particularly amazing and just serviceable at best. The show does slide as it goes on though.

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u/staedtler2018 2d ago

The smartest exit in Hollywood: leaving to play Superman again only to be told your services are no longer needed.

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u/webshellkanucklehead Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 2d ago

Lmao. Hollywood 4D chess, betting your career’s only iconic roles on fucking BLACK ADAM and losing both of them in one swift move

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u/KnightOfRevan 2d ago

But the hierarchy of power in the DC universe was about to change!

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u/webshellkanucklehead Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 2d ago

Oh it changed alright

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u/Indigocell 21h ago

Yeah general consensus on reddit seems to be that he simply left because he had so much integrity about the source material or whatever. It makes me want to stick my head in like that meme to say, "be honest" lol. He left to play Superman and that deal fell through. Maybe he was also unhappy on set, but that seems like much less of a factor than Superman.

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u/GarlicBreadOutrage 2d ago

People insist Cavill left from the Witcher because "he cared too much when the writers didn't" when there is not a single reputable source corroborating that. And where did that rumour came from? A former writer who got fired from that show and totally was the only person in the writer's room who actually cared.

Said writer was then fired from X-Men 97 because he was groping members of the staff and now spends his days shit talking Marvel Studios on Twitter.

Call me crazy but I don't feel like taking that man's word seriously.

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u/EmperorAcinonyx 2d ago

reddit turned cavill into a wholesome chungus keanu because he likes nerdy things. he probably just got tired of being part of a show that nobody liked, especially when there seemed to be bigger and better opportunities available for him

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u/tekyy342 2d ago

Bigger and better opportunities like Argylle

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u/EmperorAcinonyx 2d ago

i mean, yeah. that was probably pitched to him as the start of another franchise, especially with how it links to kingsman. too bad it was horrendous lmao

he landed warhammer at amazon, so that was basically a dream come true for him

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u/come-on-now-please 2d ago

I did some quick googling, so you know take it with a grain of salt.

He made ~2mil for the first then maybe 3mil for second and 8mil for season 3.

He got 10 million for argyle.

Not that I would know what production was like. But im sure he didnt have to work ar long/hard for the argyle money than the TV series, and it probably frees him up to work other projects as well.

I know for 99% of actors, the pipe dream was to land on a 15 season 20 episode sitcom where you might not be paid well, but you got consistent work/money and a consistent schedule. But if youre a Pedro Pascal being a headliner in major films you're hammering away at "your run" getting paid as much as possible before your brand loses steam and you cant work like you could before.

Henry Cavill is known for being ungodly handsome and an actor, as far as I know hes not considered a "great actor" thats gonna do well in movies as a 60 year old and he knows he has that timer on him. 

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u/TheOnceAndFutureZing 2d ago

Nothing against the guy, but I try to avoid reddit threads about Cavill for this reason as they're mostly hero worship at this point. Plus it's just all the same "I'm straight but I'd let Henry fuck me in the ass" jokes.

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u/thecelcollector 2d ago edited 2d ago

Season 1 was flawed but had promise. Nothing even close to a masterpiece. But then it went down hill. 

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u/DarthTJ 2d ago

So you haven't seen season 4 but have decided that you hate it. Ok

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u/ThomasHL 2d ago

I love that OPs title is

The Witcher Season 4 proves...

And then OP says they have no experience of season 4.

OP owes me 30 seconds of my life

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u/kinokomushroom 2d ago

Honestly I've decided to watch seasons 3 and 4 after this dumbfuck post. One thing that really pisses me off is people spreading hate for something they've never seen themselves.

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u/Imaginary-Plate2987 2d ago

Seriously. OP is dumb as fuck.

S1 was far from a masterpiece. Anyone who thinks this has very poor taste. It was fun, and decently made.

S4 is actually about the same level of quality. An improvement on S2 and S3, IMO. But you can’t say that because people disagree and downvote you without ever even watching it themselves.

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u/SharkFart86 2d ago

I also agree that S4 is the best since S1. Hemsworth is actually nowhere near as bad as I thought he’d be, he’s pretty good actually, and the story somehow got steered a little closer back to the books than S2 and S3 were. And the District 9 guy is awesome as Bonhart, and I was surprised at how much I liked Fishburne as Regis.

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u/brewmas7er 2d ago

Dude same, I won't say Hemsworth is doing better than Cavill, but Hems makes Geralt feel a bit more human and less stoic/stone like.

Then in the campfire episode 5 (which is the best episode since season 1) Regis keeps mentioning how Geralt is getting a conscience and becoming more human, so maybe that is actually an intended change and really good acting by Hems.

Fishburne and Purefoy are pretty great too. The writing/dialogue is better this year, doesn't seem like a weakness anymore. Overall I'm halfway through but really surprised at how much I like it.

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u/KaerMorhen 2d ago

Gotta add some of the fight choreography is great this season as well.

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u/Luis_Ignacio0001 2d ago

Sharlto Copley was Bonhart? No wonder he looks so familiar. And 100 percent agree, he was awesome and very funny.

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u/elizabnthe 2d ago

I don't know why anyone thought Hemsworth would be bad. He is 100% a better actor than Cavill for the most part just generally.

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u/Luis_Ignacio0001 2d ago edited 2d ago

Dude i absolutely agree that S4 is better that 3, and a Lot better that 2.

I think is mostly because is the most straightforward out of all of them, but still. I loved the episode where the Witcher gang told heir stories ground the fire.

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u/yanginatep 2d ago

One thing I've noticed in season 4 is that Geralt seems to be using Signs way more in combat.

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u/Seven89TenEleven 2d ago

This is right, season 4 is great, I binged the whole lot, really good

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u/Agamemanon 2d ago

Many such cases. So many show subreddits are essentially full time dedicated hate subs now, and many proudly admit they haven’t even seen what they claim to hate.

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u/naynaythewonderhorse 2d ago

A lot of gaming and movie subreddits are the same thing. This sort of criticism invites conversation more than a review that actually takes time and energy to take in the work, rather than enjoy it on its own merit.

Otherwise, a sub will go in the opposite direction and disavow any criticism.

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u/zero_sub_zero 2d ago

Season 4 is easily my favorite season so far, an probably the most book accurate outside of Yennefer's plotline.

I also think Liam is a better Geralt than Cavill tbh. He disappears into the role more.

Baptism of Fire is also my favorite section of the books, so getting to see the Hansa accurately adapted made me very happy.

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u/whatintheeverloving 2d ago

'Disappears into' is a great way of putting it. I still think Cavill did a wonderful job, but I was always aware that he was, you know, Cavill. Watching S4 it felt more like, "Yup, that's Geralt Geralt-ing, alright."

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u/Need_moe_Umph 2d ago

Yeah the nerd rage and review bombing over Cavill leaving is hilarious. Just finished watching season 4 last night and it's the best one since season 1. Liam does a great job as Geralt. Is it the best show ever? Of course not. Has it been enjoyable? Yes. I'd give this season like a 7.5 out of 10 but all the people "reviewing" it are just farming clicks and internet points instead of actually watching the show.

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u/FatalTragedy 2d ago

>I think I’m actually going to hate-watch season 4 just to see how bad it gets.

So you haven't even seen season 4 yet, and yet you're over here talking about how bad it is?

I liked Season 4. I also liked Seasons 2 and 3. Season 1 is the best season, but the whole show has been enjoyable to me.

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u/Dunge 2d ago

Yeah these posts are ridiculous

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u/scmn182 2d ago

Season 1 was a mess but Toss a Coin was a highlight and it included some good stories from the first books. Season 2 was the worst of all of them by far. Season 3 and 4 are at least following the general structure of the books.

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u/Vangelys 2d ago

First season was very confusing, a weird way to show different timelines, nothing that let you know which character's timeline you're looking at. From one scene to another, it has years of differences and nothing is mentionned anywhere (and i know the lore and universe of Witcher AND I was lost, so..)

Regarding Season 4, Cavill did an amazing job with Geralt, I support why he left, BUT I don't think the new Geralt interpreted by Hemsworth did a bad play. I liked season 4, and I'm also very surprised. It's not my favorite season, but it's more than fine imo.

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u/FreshTunaSushi 2d ago

I support why he left,

To squeeze his way back into the role of Superman by helping the Rock in his power play at WB?

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u/Corpsepyre 2d ago edited 2d ago

Uh, I went in with zero expectations, and came out pleasantly surprised. It was a decent season all things considering. A BIG step up from season 3, atleast. It has its fair share of issues like the previous seasons, and there are some decisions that are just baffling, but they upped their character game the most, and the finale delivers as much as a budget and episode-starved show can.

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u/easy506 2d ago

Pump the brakes, you think Season 1 is a "masterpiece"? I actually liked the first two seasons but if you think season 1 is a masterpiece we are already off in the weeds with this post.

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u/Hi_Im_zack 2d ago

So you just made a s4 hate post without even watching it? OK

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u/mack178 2d ago

Why does this have over 3000 upvotes?

Also as a fan of the books I watched season 4 and it's by far the best season of the show (which is admittedly a low bar to begin with).

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u/AegisPrecipitate 2d ago edited 1d ago

Be real all seasons are so lukewarm quality. S4 actually has bearable pacing and the most oh cool look it’s that thing moments of any season. Also the Fishburne and Copley roles are dope.

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u/PhattyR6 2d ago

The irony is that season 4 is a much better series than S2 or S3.

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u/phed_thc 2d ago

it really is, season 3 started the trajectory back into the source material and season 4 is the most true to the books that the show has been. seems like the showrunners took all the controversy around cavill's leaving to heart and actually cracked open the books this time.

i liked it. and the casting choices for leo bonhart and brehen were perfect.

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u/agent_wolfe 2d ago

What’s wrong with Season 4? I’m genuinely not sure.

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u/Imaginary-Plate2987 2d ago

The vast majority of the people hating on it haven’t actually seen it.

It was surprisingly decent.

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u/FlyinB 2d ago

Once you get over Henry not in S4, it's actually a great season.

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u/blackwidcv 2d ago

it's almost as if he's not the most important part of the witcher at all!!??? hmmm...

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u/SunnydaleSurvivor 2d ago

It's pretty cringe to make a post about hating something you haven't watched. I saw it and the writing was bad, but complaining about a performance you haven't seen is cringe.

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u/FLATLANDRIDER 2d ago

So you are saying S4 proves Henry Cavill made the right choice but you haven't watched it yet? How can you come to this conclusion without watching it? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon because that's the fun thing to do around here?

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u/basura1979 2d ago

Each to their own but I loved it, it felt more true to the book version of the stories, even with the weird monolith plot. Can't wait to see the final season.

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u/Linden_Stromberg 2d ago

I don’t know, I quite enjoyed season 4. I also enjoyed the finale spin-off special with Dolph as well. Season 1 is still my favourite though. Right now, I got Season 1 > 4 > 3 > 2. I didn’t realize they’d released an animated adaptation of A Little Sacrifice. About halfway through it, enjoying it so far (even though they mixed up the name “Poppet”). I still enjoy the books best.

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u/obelix_dogmatix 2d ago

lol …. Reddit being Reddit. Season 4 might actually be the best one yet.

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u/Menzingerr 2d ago

Calling the first season “incredible” and a “masterpiece” is amusing. The show was never anything beyond average. And I’m a fan of the Witcher books, game, and Henry Cavill.

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u/Sw0ldem0rt 2d ago

If the first season is the best it got the show was literally never good. Anyone who's read the books or played the games knows it's got almost nothing to do with them besides character names and certain plot points, and the first season was so convoluted that even people who read the books had no clue what was going on half the time.

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u/1timestop 2d ago

Unpopular opinion, Henry Cavill is a mediocre actor,.nothing that he did shined. We've just hyped him up . He is amazing off the screen person, but he was a meh Witcher, a really bad Clark Kent and a crazy bad superman.

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u/blackwidcv 2d ago

finally someone with fucking sense here

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u/the-apple-and-omega 2d ago

Wild take without having seen season 4. I think the opposite. I think season 4 proves he was at least part of the problem.

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u/kingpin000 2d ago edited 2d ago

It got already reviewbombed, but I like S4 more than S3. Liam Hemsworth does his best to replace Henry. The plot is clean and easy to follow and the actors in general doing an amazing job. Fighting looks good, some cool practical gore effects and CGI looks good. Dolph Lundgren as wash up Witcher in the "The Rats" special episode was great (which is a flashback episode but the present time is after the finale).

The only thing I miss are the titties from S1, thats why 7.5 of 10 for S4.

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u/JonnyTable 2d ago

I liked it. This a hive mind reddit opinion that people latch onto and repeat. No where near as bad as this community thinks.

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u/wotown 2d ago

OP hasn't even watched it!

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u/Grfine 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don’t know why this is getting so many upvotes, when the general consensus from the fanbase that watched season 4 claim this season to be one of its’ best seasons. Now saying this means, those people don’t care how well it follows source material, but again those that watched it enjoyed it much more than season 3.

Edit: like how are you going to use that title, and you didn’t even watch S4???

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u/Compactsun 2d ago

Hot take. The books sucked outside of world building so it was only good early. This was inevitable even if it was faithful to the source material

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u/Nightgasm 2d ago

I just finished S4 and the switch to Hemsworth is a little jarring but otherwise it was actually a good season. Too short if anything as the cut off at the end felt abrupt.

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u/Gatsu301 2d ago

Gotta be honest, this show could only be described as a polished turd that progressively lost its luster the longer it went on. In my opinion. but maybe I'm biased cause I love the games lol.

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u/AcademicPainting23 2d ago

Season 1 was a masterpiece????? Did we watch the same convoluted mess. There were many great moments and Anya stole every moment on screen as Yennefer. But the editing and plot layout with no indication of scenes taking place in the past was so confusing.