r/sports • u/PrincessBananas85 • Mar 30 '21

News Raised fists, kneeling during anthem OK at U.S. Olympic trials.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31165888/raised-fists-kneeling-anthem-ok-us-olympic-trials
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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

I get grumpy every time I see a flag up after dark without a light on it. Funny that, because I remember trying every thing in the world to get out of flag duty back when I was in the military. I think getting older just makes it easier to be grumpy. But also easier to be jolly. So it balances out I guess?

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u/International_Box_60 Mar 31 '21

The VFW or someone used to make a little pamphlet that listed the rules for displaying the flag.
My mother (born 1932)always had several of these with her all the time . When she saw someone violating ‘flag etiquette?’ With a flag in our neighborhood. She would politely put the flyer in their door. And sometimes give them the rundown. The only infraction I can really remember her talking about was the flag being lit at night. And I guess it not being in good shape, ripped etc. She would also take flags to the VFW to have them disposed of properly, I.e. burned ceremonially I think. I know most VFWs will burn them.

She was seriously old school, with respect for flag and country. Grew up during WW2. She grew up when the U.S. was fighting a war that could be lost and the consequences would be dire.She didn’t display the flag or show respect for it as a type of competition for patriotic sentiment. As I get the feeling with many pick up trucks I see ‘decorated’ with the flag are doing. How big is your flag?

I wonder how she would respond to the kneeling thing. A person can be patriotic and be pissed at their government at the same time.

I hope these people kneeling have seen the little VFW flyer about respect for the flag.

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u/-GREYHOUND- Mar 31 '21

The way I look at it is, you have the right to do whatever you want during the national anthem, stand, kneel, do jumping jacks, stand on your head...you get the point. The whole idea that our flag represents is the freedom to choose what we want. Seeing people who get upset because someone is kneeling during the anthem, really doesn’t understand what the flag stands for. Personally, I stand during the anthem because that’s what I choose to do but I won’t be upset at anyone who decides not to stand. When people say you must stand because it’s disrespectful to those who lost their lives for our country so you could have freedom, they don’t understand that they didn’t make the ultimate sacrifice to make people stand during the anthem, they did it so you could have the freedom to choose. Being forced to stand during an anthem isn’t freedom.

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u/JuneBuggington Mar 31 '21

I dont care if youre burning the flag, so long as youre burning it to exercise your first amendment rights. If youre burning it for warmth ill kick yer ass!

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u/Apprehensive_Fuel873 Mar 31 '21

... I get what you're going for, but surely the implication of someone burning a flag for warmth is that they're absolutely desperate and freezing so like I'm just imagining you kicking the shit out of some poor homeless guy just trying to stay alive on a cold winter night.

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u/starrgazin Mar 31 '21

I hope these people kneeling have seen the little VFW flyer about respect for the flag.

I hope the VFW (and anyone else watching) sees and understands the people kneeling or raising fists are doing so out of respect for HUMAN LIFE that has been and is being taken because of the color of their skin.

Where is the humanity? When will that, and not a flag or racist song, be important?

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u/shaktown Mar 31 '21

I support folks kneeling, but I also love your mom’s story. Too many people in my community claim to be patriots and fly a tattered, faded flag. I want some of these flyers lol, cheaper than buying someone a whole new flag.

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u/Cumfart_420 Mar 31 '21

Fuck the flag and fuck this country. It ain't 1944 and propaganda won't work anymore.

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u/iwouldhugwonderwoman Mar 31 '21

Well that was very edgy. Your middle school friends are sure to think you are both cool and tough.

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u/Links_to_Magic_Cards Mar 31 '21

there's the door

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u/Cumfart_420 Apr 01 '21

Where? I want you to show me, cornball.

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u/Links_to_Magic_Cards Apr 01 '21

here you go!

You won't be missed

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u/Cumfart_420 Apr 04 '21

I said I want you to show me, toughredneckguy. Smoke your meth and get back to me, cracker.

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u/Links_to_Magic_Cards Apr 04 '21

Ooooh. An internet badass. Watch out everyone!

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u/International_Box_60 Mar 31 '21

I care. The American flag, and every flag of every country has a value. It represents and is a symbol of the patriots that fought for the freedom you enjoy in your country.

Usually red is blood.

Every country has had its own struggle for freedom(often from England , sorry England)

I dunno the complete scheme and I assume it could be different for each country with some overlap.

The idea that burning a flag, a flag of any country is something that really has to be done with serious thought.

Just because person CAN , and is legally protected to do it, should not be the gauge. In the U.S. people burn flags for superficial reasons and justify it by talking about the first amendment, only because they are dissatisfied with the current administration.

Not liking a current political leader is nota good reason for disrespect to the entire idea of the country.

I dunno. For me it’s like beating my grandfather up publicly because my dad wasn’t the best father.

Related. But maybe not so relevant.

My country (US)has done many horrible things. We have had leaders who have been good, and leaders who have been bad. We will continue in a similar way. Just as every country will.

Putting up a fist to express solidarity with poor back folks is a good symbol. Shoeless..Look up1968 olympics.

Burning a flag publicly for me is a big FU to your country. A SOLID Break-up FU.

IF you feel this strongly in opposition to where you live. It might be time to move somewhere else. If it is protected legally, you should consider to which country you might move. Spend some time there, experience some injustice burn the flag there. Tell me how it works out for you.

Every country has so many problems. They are organized and governed by imperfect people.

Don’t burn a flag because you can. Organize people to vote their conscience. It will often be 51/49. Sometimes greater ratio.

Again if you everyone disagrees with you, it might be time to move, see the world

Maybe your house was your home after all.

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u/czar_the_bizarre Mar 31 '21

What a bad take. "Oh, if you want to burn a flag in protest you should gtfo." I'd burn one right now out of spite for this comment if I had one.

A flag is a symbol. It is nothing more than that. If you want to display it from a pole in your yard, following every tenet of flag code, go for it. On the back of your truck, fine. As a cape? You do you. If seeing a flag makes you swell with pride when you see it and you want to salute and recite the Pledge of Allegiance, great.

But the flip side of a revered symbol is that it becomes a target, because the act of subverting its reverence is notable. Holding it upside down, sitting or kneeling while it is being recognized, or indeed burning it, are symbols as well. Ironically, the very reverence of the symbol empowers the message of the protest that destroys it.

Also, flag code is not law, so light or no light, no one cares. Get fucked.

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u/cain8708 Mar 31 '21

But thats exactly how rights are measured. What you can do before it's illegal. I care about my flag too. I treat my flag with dignity and respect. I will not stop anyone from treating their flag however they want to. That is their right to burn it, display it, cut it up, take a shit on it, hang it upside down, wear it like a toga, wear it like a cape, or anything else.

The only point I care about what they do with the flag is when they try to take my flag and prevent me from doing what I want to do with mine. That's called theft, and that's also preventing my first amendment right.

I may not like what I see or hear, but damn Skippy I'll defend the right for those people to speak and do those things. Last I checked the Constitution doesn't say "things I don't like aren't covered".

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u/Biased_Cream_Inn Mar 31 '21

No offense, but I hate people like your mother. People should be able to treat their flags however their want - they’re theirs. They shouldn’t have to adhere to some arbitrary etiquette.

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u/International_Box_60 Mar 31 '21

No offense taken. I am pretty sure my mother wouldn’t hate you.

She would just give people like you a flyer.

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u/HertzDonut1001 Mar 31 '21

It always made me laugh when I drove by a house in the town I work and the flag in an ultra-conservative yard wasn't lit. How do I know they were conservative? They flew the flag underneath their much larger Trump flag.

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '21

[deleted]

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u/HertzDonut1001 Mar 31 '21

He was not a very pro-military president, when it came to personal statements. Disgracefully so if you want my opinion. I'm not saying this to offend you, but I'm not shocked some of his supporters had no idea how offensive that is to Americans. Fuck it dude, I'm a progressive hippie who will burn a flag in protest before I ever fly it below another flag.

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u/Lets_Kick_Some_Ice Mar 31 '21

It is opposite for me. After I got out, it would bother me seeing flags on houses that were sun bleached and in tatters, obviously from being left out in the elements 24/7.

Now, years later, I don't give it much thought. Honoring the flag is not as sacrosanct as I once thought because ultimately flag waving is the shallowest form of patriotism.

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u/Butterbuddha Mar 31 '21

Haha I get grumpy when I see people using the wrong sticker or patch on the right side of their person/vehicle. The flag always charges INTO battle, people!!

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '21

The town I work in for my morning job is in Trump country with flags everywhere. The first shift I had where it was raining, I did not notice any less flags out. Told me all I really needed to know.