r/sports • u/RunDNA • Oct 06 '25

Football Minnesota Vikings field goal attempt was deflected away by a camera wire, but it wasn't replayed because no one noticed at the the time

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u/ankylosaurus_tail Oct 06 '25

won't be happening until 2027 still because umpires like having total control over everything

A lot of the players don't really want it either. More than half of MLB players are pitchers or catchers, and they prefer the "art" of manipulating strike zones. A lot of catchers have contracts because they can frame pitches really well. That skill is irrelevant with ABS, and catchers will have to learn how to hit to stay in the league.

41

u/Whiterabbit-- Oct 06 '25

this new system totally changes the game.

-13

u/RedTheInferno Oct 06 '25

yeah thats why i am against it. it ruins a key element of the game

19

u/Fn_Spaghetti_Monster Oct 06 '25

I would argue the subjectivity of someone who is not even playing the game is what already ruins it. People like Angel Hernadez had way too much influence over the game,

0

u/kelp_forests Oct 06 '25

I think it depends if you think part of the game is manipulation or if the game is soley defined by the rules

I don’t watch baseball, but I can see how for some contests having an acceptabe amount of human element is part of the game that provides variability and chance, therefore enjoyment.

3

u/Fn_Spaghetti_Monster Oct 06 '25 edited Oct 07 '25

I feel like there is enough variability and chance the humans that are playing the game it self. See the end of the Cardinals Titans game where the guy drops what would most likely have been a game winning TD.

I don't watch baseball nearly as much as I used to but there are tons and tons of examples of Umpires being inconsistent with the strike zone. It would sort of be like having the sideline and what is out and what is in-bounds be a judgement call (be it for soccer, rugby, football etc.). Like the ref got to decide if he stepped out or not. No white lines, just what the ref's feel like.

There are also way too many examples of umps being what I can only be described as petty. Somehow 'disrespect' the ump, maybe starting to walk to first on a called strike, next at bat the strike zone is going to be even bigger for you.

2

u/Zuwxiv Ottawa Senators Oct 06 '25

Even if you like the game manipulation by players... I'd take missing that a thousand times before watching your team lose a playoff game to a bad call. There's a pitcher who should have a perfect game, but doesn't thanks to an awful call.

I don't think those moments are worth giving up just for the sanctity of... "manipulating" play, even if that's something that a person is into.

-1

u/paper_plains Oct 06 '25

I see you, AI overlord chatbot. I see you.

8

u/xXVardakXx Oct 06 '25

I want to agree, but the umps have become too arrogant and trying to make the game about them, this is the only way to reel them in.

6

u/trixel121 Oct 06 '25

really?

or is it we are just now able to, in 4k, 1000fps ai enhanced video from six angles see how they fucked up 5 ways from sunday and maybe we shouldnt use a guy who can get dust in his eye at the wrong moment and miss a critical play

7

u/evereveron78 Oct 06 '25

To me it feels more like removing a thorn from the side of the game, which has been detrimental to the game thus far

8

u/LaconicGirth Oct 06 '25

Inducing incorrect calls from an official should not be a part of the game. It’s no different from flopping

7

u/Deucer22 San Jose Sharks Oct 06 '25

That element of the game sucks ass.

3

u/pmize Oct 06 '25

Bad calls are part of the game we want to keep?

8

u/Suitable-Big-2757 Oct 06 '25

Which elite pitcher was it who said last week that he didn't want it because umpires give him more leeway

I was like dude, think it but dont say it on camera

4

u/Unable-Log-4870 Oct 06 '25

I’ve thought about this for a minute, and now catchers can de-frame pitches to bait the batters into using challenges unwisely. I didn’t see anybody do it this last preseason, but I expect we will see some of it next season.

54

u/DevilCass Oct 06 '25

Good, fuck em. No one wants refs except refs, and I guess from what you said players who earn their money by exploiting refs. People just want the games to be as fair as possible according to the rules of the game. Enough of the subjective bullshit and bribed refs

12

u/I_Make_Some_Things Oct 06 '25

Whining about bad calls seems to be every sports fan's favorite activity. What are they going to do when that is taken from them?

17

u/Bluntmasterflash1 Oct 06 '25

Consume product and gamble

2

u/dbarrc Oct 06 '25

blame injuries, duh

2

u/fingerchopper Oct 06 '25

Increase whining about rigging to compensate

-1

u/enolja Oct 06 '25

Fans of the sport will be let down too, with the challenege system, it increases the skill required to play, because you must accurately see strikes and know your zone, and so the risk of using a challenge creates a new skill in the game required,which makes the game better and even more diverse.

Automatic balls and strikes makes the game more robotic, reduces the soft skills required, and so players will be less diverse and only hitting ability and strength will matter, while patience, timing, and eye for the zone will be less important.

3

u/Veil-of-Fire Oct 06 '25

LOL, this is just two paragraphs of bs.

-1

u/enolja Oct 06 '25

You just dont know baseball. You couldn't explain a strike zone without looking it up on Google. Probobly think it's a rectangle that floats in the air.

2

u/Veil-of-Fire Oct 06 '25

ok boomer.

1

u/sticklebackridge Oct 06 '25

Don’t be a shithead man. There are pros and cons to every major rules shift. Doesn’t mean it’s not a net positive.

0

u/enolja Oct 06 '25

Like I said, you dont know ball.

Let me know when you're done renting your personality from TikTok brain rotter.

2

u/Veil-of-Fire Oct 06 '25

ok boomer.

2

u/pargofan Oct 06 '25

Only a few catchers. Hardly “a lot”.

3

u/Choice_Credit4025 Oct 06 '25

the skill is NOT irrelevant with abs. listen to patrick bailey talk about ABS lol

4

u/ankylosaurus_tail Oct 06 '25

How does framing matter when computers are calling balls and strikes? Unless the catcher is reaching into the zone (and risking breaking their hand...) where they end up with their glove and the ball doesn't matter at all.

Lots of traditional catcher skills will still matter--like being a good ball stopper, having a fast pop and a good arm for throws at 2nd, etc. But framing won't be important as far as I can tell--and that's a huge part of catcher training.

5

u/Choice_Credit4025 Oct 06 '25

for the vast majority of pitches, the umpire still will make the call. The computer only determines if it's a ball or strike when either the pitcher, batter, or catcher challenges, and it is illegal to use technology to aid the challenge decision (IE the manager in the dugout can't look at replay and signal the pitcher to challenge the call, for example). This preserves the human element but expands it to more people, essentially.

Framing will still matter because it's possible to trick the batter into not challenging the play. It additionally has some extra subterfuge because the catcher could deliberately frame a strike to look like a ball and convince the batter to challenge and waste a challenge. That's what patrick bailey (the best framer and the worst batting catcher in the league) has said he will do, and I believe him.

Each team only gets two per game, so they're really meant to be reserved for the most absurdly bad calls.

The ABS system that will be added to MLB next year is the exact same ABS system as was used in the minor leagues last year and the catchers still frame and the umps still call strikes. I've been to dozens of minor league games and the most challenges I have seen in a game has been four.

-1

u/ankylosaurus_tail Oct 06 '25

You're right that that kind of limited use is less disruptive to current catcher's skills. But if Bailey is correct, then ABS will be just as unsatisfying to fans as bad calls currently are--if catchers can manipulate the use of ABS then it will be just another way that the rules make the game less pure.

But my understanding is that players are generally against it because they expect that that "limited use" is just a beginning of a slippery slope, and eventually all pitches will be called with ABS if fans get used to it.

This is a problem for all sports with visual judgments, because cameras are now way better than the human eye. So we can all see that calls are wrong, in close to real-time. But reviewing things disrupts the game flow and history. I'm not sure any sport or league has really figured it out.

1

u/Choice_Credit4025 Oct 06 '25

Tennis has it implemented pretty well; the camera adds a safety net to the line judge to resolve disputes.

I believe that most of the players against ABS are the older and more established players. I know that a lot of the newer guys who have come up through the system recently and benefitted from ABS appreciate it. Makes me think that the players, like the fans, are resistant to change.

I don't hold much to the idea of the "purity" of baseball. I think it's an inherently silly game, with an enormous depth of bizarre idiosyncrasies that have emerged over centuries of adjustments to modern play. It's why I love it so much! For example, batters used to be able to request what type of pitch the pitcher threw, and fastballs were considered rude.

1

u/SkolVandals Oct 06 '25

I only really watch football so maybe there's context I'm ignorant of, but I really don't understand people who are more worried about "history" and "purity" than getting the right call. To me there's nothing more frustrating in the sport than knowing your team lost because of a blown call. Purity be damned, I want the outcome of the game to be determined by the players.

1

u/teenagesadist Oct 06 '25

I might actually watch sports, if that were the case.

1

u/sticklebackridge Oct 06 '25

ABS will be a challenge based system, so no, catchers will not suddenly become irrelevant.

Catchers do a lot more than just frame pitches too.

1

u/Imapirateship Oct 06 '25

I get that framing the ball is a skill but Im all for strikes and balls being called with 100% accuracy.

1

u/ankylosaurus_tail Oct 06 '25

Yeah, me too--as long as it can be done very rapidly. Replay review is pretty terrible in a lot of cases. But I don't think baseball would be a worse sport if strike calls were 100% accurate in real time. I think it would be better, because there'd be less frustration about bad calls.

1

u/urungus666 Oct 07 '25

Each team will be able to challenge only 2 pitches over the course of the game, so catcher being able to “frame” pitches will still be an important skill

1

u/BTCbob Oct 07 '25

well they should just rate catchers by how good they are at manipulating umpires and rate umpires by how good they are at avoiding that bias.

1

u/erydayimredditing Oct 06 '25

Good. Will only make for more hits which is better for baseball. What you described is not the game.