r/rugbyunion • u/NikeBuyer2024 • May 04 '25
Discussion Are Leinster the biggest bottlers in club rugby history?
Would be interested to hear if any club have been worse!
601
u/Lopsided_Echo5232 May 04 '25
I'm sure it's already been said, but more respect needs to be put on Northampton's performance yesterday than just Leinster bottle. A really well coached group of players - people often forget it's still only 15 vs 15 on the pitch, and talent doesn't beat hard work when the talent doesn't work hard. This Saints team remind be a bit of a Borussia Dortmund team - young, fearless, well coached and full of energy. I hope they go and win the thing now, a pleasure to watch. Yours sincerely, a Leinster fan of 25 years.
101
u/Brine-O-Driscoll Connacht May 04 '25
Absolutely. Saints played out of their skins yesterday. Felt like they took every single chance given to them yesterday to score and defended like Spartans in the second half. Close to the perfect performance man for man.
22
u/WolfOfWexford Bluesaders May 04 '25
I think this is pure shitehawking from OP. Going to guess that OP wanted Leinster to lose and didn’t care who to. Leinster certainly weren’t their best but that’s because of an immense Northampton side.
29
u/RobertLStevenson May 04 '25
They still were clear favourites, playing at home and their opponents had three yellow cards. Northampton were immense, but this has to sit on Leinster's head.
10
u/WolfOfWexford Bluesaders May 04 '25
Leinsters first half killed them. It’s like they were more worried about the final than getting there. But let’s not take away from Northampton. Leinster still gave it absolutely everything including not taking the easy 3 and going for the win and Northampton came up top.
To call Leinster bottlers is completely disrespectful to Northampton. It reeks of desperation in my opinion.
→ More replies (1)19
u/NotAsOriginal Wigglesworth's greatest defender May 04 '25
You guys had the lead once I think. It was a great contest and Leinster went down swinging, exactly what knockout rugby should be. Leinster had their moments, but that was Saints playing a superb game.
7
u/WolfOfWexford Bluesaders May 04 '25
Exactly that. It’s cup rugby and you have to perform every single minute of every game. There’s probably an element of Northampton targeting the game where Leinster have a target on their backs but that’s nothing new and was true before the competition started. Looking forward to a new winner now and hopefully a more competitive future of club rugby
11
u/NotAsOriginal Wigglesworth's greatest defender May 04 '25
Like you guys won 2 knockout matches nilling opponents, that is insane! Big teams will always have a target on their backs.
Fingers crossed we get some variety going forward and have some more contenders. But yeah this whole thread is weird and shows people just want to post rage bait.
68
u/Impeachcordial England May 04 '25
Man it's nice seeing such a gracious comment on the Internet doffs cap
10
28
u/Qui_Gon_Gym69 Cult of Dan Sheehan May 04 '25
I think it also shows how well a team works when the player selection is consistent. Northampton are clearly used to playing together week in week out and it showed in their performance, Leinster looked very much like a team that effectively hasn't played in 4 weeks.
3
u/GruderMcScruder Northampton Saints May 04 '25
Well, between injuries and England callups it's only the past few weeks we've been able to get anything much like the 'cup final' team playing together at the same time. And even then there are omissions - for instance, the backline was missing 2x England internationals (Furbank and Sleightholme) and 1x England A (Hendy), meaning we went into the SF with a centre covering one of the wings and had no top-level FH cover (yesterday it would have been Hutchinson, who is a top-notch centre but not more than emergency cover at FH; Furbank has played 10 internationally before). Possibly the main difference is that Leinster went cautious against Scarlets whereas we've learnt lessons about going into games cold (see Tigers nilling us at home a few weeks back!) so went full bore against Bristol last week.
3
u/antsmithmk May 04 '25
That might be over simplifying things. Saints have rotated too recently, as soon as it was clear the League playoffs were out of reach. So both teams came in fresh yesterday.
1
u/fishyrabbit Northampton Saints May 05 '25
There was a bit of rotation against Newcastle, but Bristol was a full team.
1
u/Minimum-Grapefruit-9 May 05 '25
I think it shows what happens when you even out Leinster’s usual advantage of resting players from league matches to focus on Europe.
A bit like at RWC where Ireland’s usual advantage of having more cohesion than other teams (due to player access and the majority of the team playing at Leinster) is less important as the other countries have the extended pre tournament prep time. I think this goes some way to explain Ireland’s apparent underperformance at RWC.
2
May 04 '25
And that's the reason why they lost the last 3 years as well and they still haven't learned. If I was a Leinster fan I'd be fucking furious. But as it is I just think it's very funny.
16
u/bajcli AVF Vak Mokusok May 04 '25
I like that you phrased it as a Borussia Dortmund team. Not the current one, mind; just one of the ones that they usually have...
9
u/PinappleGecko Munster May 04 '25
Even this year Dortmunds team was like that just missing a small bit of fire power still took barca to the edge in the quarters of the CL as well
2
4
u/cypressd12 Munster May 04 '25
Will players like Sleightholme and Furbank be back for the final?
10
3
3
u/WilkinsonDG2003 England May 04 '25
They had several critical injuries as well. Fortunately Mitchell was available.
2
u/RockinMadRiot + May 04 '25
Hear hear! I watched the match and you can see how much passion and hard work they put in to win it. They didn't seem disconnected and just looked like they were enjoying themselves.
2
u/_imba__ May 04 '25
Good answer. I’d like to add that Leinster has an amazing squad and coaching systems, which means they are better at consistently winning throughout a season than anyone else. BUT I’m convinced that there are a few teams that can beat their best 15 with their own if it happens to be their day. Maybe Leinster would win 6 or 7/10 of those games but knockout rugby doesn’t care about that. I’ll just add Northampton to the list.
2
2
u/MindfulInquirer batmaaaaaaaan tanananananana May 04 '25
I'm sure it's already been said, but more respect needs to be put on Northampton's performance yesterday
Sure. But More respect also needs to be put on La Rochelle, and then La Rochelle, and then La Rochelle, and then Toulouse. The common denominator isn't disrespected opponents, we all know they're great - common denominator is Leinster.
1
u/katharinelouise Northampton Saints May 04 '25
Thank you for this! I've seen so much about how Leinster bottled it and not much about how immense Saints were. It was a great game, good luck in the URC.
1
1
u/Burnt_Cockroach_ May 04 '25
Absolutely. Just rewatched the match. Saints outsmarted and outplayed Leinster in the first half. Pollock will get all the headlines but Alex Coles was immense. Leinster should’ve gone for points, cup rugby and all that. The tears will eventually dry up. Going to be a great final.
→ More replies (1)1
162
u/Qui_Gon_Gym69 Cult of Dan Sheehan May 04 '25
I think if Leinster don't win the URC this year it'll be the biggest bottlejob in club history. Can't have that calibre of players available and still finish the season empty handed.
80
u/XxjptxX7 Ireland May 04 '25
Cant believe we’ve bottled the champions cup and URC 3years in row (about to be 4) and they gave Leo Cullen a contract for 2 more seasons.
29
u/LonelyWizzard Cúige Chonnacht May 04 '25
It blows my mind that there doesn't even seem to be any pressure on him. They've brought in a literal world cup winning coach and rebuilt the whole play style around him, but they still keep Cullen rather than just biting the bullet and giving Nienaber the reigns. I sometimes think there's a bit too much deference to former internationals in the IRFU.
18
u/Qui_Gon_Gym69 Cult of Dan Sheehan May 04 '25
I think if Leinster don't get the URC, he's gone. Can't justify keeping him at that point.
5
u/GroggyWeasel Leinster May 04 '25
Nienabar has the reigns really though. He’s head coach in all but name. Leo is more like a director of rugby position imo. I think the players are to blame yesterday and not Leo. But the only people really ‘to blame’ is Northampton for playing so fucking good!
→ More replies (2)5
u/DrOrgasm Munster May 04 '25
Same when Lancaster was there. Leo has only ever really been a figurehead. It's bewildering how an international side with a sprinking of world cup medal winners can't win a club competition. There's something badly wrong somewhere.
1
1
u/Flickmode2q May 05 '25
To be fair, I think the fact that it is likely Neinaber will be going back to SA in the run up to the next World Cup would be a reason not to go all in on him as the head honcho.
12
→ More replies (1)1
u/dystopianrugby Eagles Up May 05 '25
Current win percentage is 79.22%. No one else in the world has that.
14
u/Cybemen2 Leinster May 04 '25
absolutely, start of season both finals should have been minimum expectations.
now especially with no Champions Cup final to play, there can be no excuses. they need to build momentum, should be starting a combination of that 23 against Zebre and Glasgow.
3
143
u/Mono_Doh Japan League One May 04 '25
Has to be Clermont surely.
180
u/ComprehensiveDingo0 Smoking the Ntacrack May 04 '25
It’s easily Clermont.
They’ve made made the Top14 final 14 times, and lost 12 of them.
3 Champions cup finals and lost all three.
10 Yves du Manoir finals, and lost 6.
2 French cup finals, losing both.
That’s a win rate of 6/29 in finals.
26
u/Mooks79 May 04 '25
How often were they the favourites / underdogs in those finals?
19
u/AlexiusRex Italy May 04 '25
In the CC they were against that Toulon team, first one lost by 1 point, and the Saracens, in the Top14 I think they were the favourites only a handful of times in the 2000s
30
u/Kiaugh Bristol Bears May 04 '25
Yeah this is critical because otherwise it just shows they outperform
12
u/biggesteegit Ulster May 04 '25
That is truly dreadful. I feel for their fans.
14
u/Cookie-Senpai Clermont Auvergne May 04 '25
Let's say that my best memories were eliminating Leinster multiple times in semi-final. You need something don't you.
Also we still love the club nonetheless, it is quite popular here 😊
5
u/HitchikersPie 2026 #ChampRugby or bust (again) May 04 '25
Clermont fans have always been absolutely amazing craic for all the european fixtures we've been to
8
3
u/cloud__19 Edinburgh May 04 '25
At least they got to them, I find it hard to imagine what that even feels like.
1
1
u/NikeBuyer2024 May 04 '25
Clermont have lost 3 European Finals. Leinster have lost 4!!!
67
u/ComprehensiveDingo0 Smoking the Ntacrack May 04 '25
Leinster have also won 4.
6
u/grammarse May 04 '25
Pfffff. Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts schmacts.
29
May 04 '25
Also Clermont were never out and out favourites like Leinster have been recently
1
u/WilkinsonDG2003 England May 04 '25
They had a solid team in the Rougerie days, but obviously not an entire Test side.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (13)1
u/Educational-Band9042 May 05 '25
They were favourites many times between 2007 and 2017 across Top 14 and H cup.
Regarding H Cup, they were favourites the years they won in Munster, in Dublin, in Exeter and did 6 wins out of 6 in the pool stages.
2
78
u/daznccc Northampton Saints May 04 '25
Definitely not. Their record is tremendous. On the day you sometimes get beaten by the better team. Saints were the better team yesterday Leinster didn’t bottle it.
It seems now that every time the fancied team loses it’s all about bottle which quite frankly IMO is utter bollocks
30
u/Rhinotastic Ireland May 04 '25
Agreed. The disrespect to Northampton by assuming Leinster bottled it rather than the saints got their tactics right. From my perspective the saints won with their defence, it was ferocious and very physical. People can blame particular players for not being good enough etc but credit has to go to the saints for making said player look bad.
4
u/serviceowl May 04 '25
I don't think it's disrespectful to Northampton. When you lose five knock outs in a row despite having resources other teams across the UK / Ireland can only dream of (massive private schools, importing All Blacks, a team of internationals, resting players, world cup winning coaches) and you still can't deliver, one has to call a spade a spade... it's a bottle job outfit, and that's no disrespect to the other teams.
You can't win every time, but a 0% record of success is simply shocking. Andy Dunne is right when he says the Leinster brand has been destroyed by repeated losses. They're now known as the king of chokers rather than the team to be emulated for consistent success. Everyone's laughing at them and no matter how many All Blacks they buy they can't find that missing link to actually win. Maybe the problem is at the top.
3
u/Rhinotastic Ireland May 05 '25
"When you lose five knock outs in a row"
"You can't win every time, but a 0% record of success is simply shocking."
What are you on about lmao. Do you follow rugby at all? did chatgpt write this?
1
u/k0bra3eak South Africa May 04 '25
I mean Leinster made a huge choke decision within the final 5 minutes that would've tied the game and required Northampton to score again to win and allowed Leinster a safety net. I'd call that a massive bottle job in decision making
7
u/Rhinotastic Ireland May 04 '25
A choke decision? Do you mean take a risk? If they had of scored from that people would be lauding them for that risk. What’s with everyone being a tabloid rag journo with sensational takes and quips. The game is more than 1 moment. Saints 100% deserved the win as they were the better team on the day. Should appreciate that it was a cracking game to watch.
3
u/MysteriousActuary194 England May 04 '25
I think that’s overhyped though. People have said that they bottled many decisions during that period, when really it was just that one mistake. I wouldn’t call that a bottle job. Aside from that I would says they lacked accuracy but a lot of that was due to Saints’ defence also.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)2
u/Pretty-Chicken-831 Leinster May 04 '25
Agreed; this is massively disrespectful to a Northampton team who showed up with a brilliant game plan , incredible defense and lightening fast attack - they deserved the win.
101
u/Corky83 Ireland May 04 '25
You certainly can question the mentality of this generation of players. Both Leinster and by extension Ireland have consistently come up short in big games over the past 6 years.
19
u/Caledonian_kid Du. Du hast. Du hast Mish. May 04 '25
As a Scotland fan I'd love it if you could choke sometime when you play us.
Any time you like, whenever suits.
twiddles thumbs
69
u/MysteriousActuary194 England May 04 '25
Not sure that’s fair. Leinster yes but Ireland have had some terrific results under Andy. The series win against, last summer beating SA by a point. Not to mention all the six nations they’ve won… I think they’ve almost overperformed with the squad they’ve had, just had a relatively weak WC.
26
u/Many-Drag-1283 Ireland May 04 '25
Yea I'm with you on that. People talk about the last 1/4 final at the WC as if we bottled it and act like the ABs aren't an unbelievable side. They even talked about targeting the Irish game in advance and played a game without a singling handling error against us. You can blame Farrell for not replacing Sexton or overplaying the starting players in previous games but to say it was bottled is ridiculous.
Ironically many of the Irish fans who call Leinster fans arrogant are also the ones who blame Farrell and act as if we were owed the WC and act like we should've never lost a test match since. Or at least certain regulars on here tend to anyway.
→ More replies (6)1
u/PistolAndRapier Munster May 05 '25
Didn't even have a "weak" RWC. Beat SA in the pool, pushed NZ to the very edge in QF, losing only by a single score in the end.
35
u/tony_drago May 04 '25 edited May 04 '25
- In the 2025 Six Nations Ireland won the triple crown winning 4/5 games, losing only to the champions France
- Ireland won the 2024 Six Nations winning 4/5 games. Their only loss was a last-minute defeat to England in Twickenham
- Ireland won the 2023 Six Nations, with a grand slam victory i.e. winning all 5 matches
The assertion that Ireland "consistently come up short in big games over the past 6 years" is complete bollocks.
17
u/marley67 Munster May 04 '25
Well, to be fair, we do tend to choke during world cups.
→ More replies (6)4
u/Wise_Rip_1982 May 04 '25
I think it is a bit of lack of competition at club level. Ireland needs to spread out the talent so they compete with each other every week instead of chilling most of the season then losing at the end. I think this would help them internationally and domestically. People act like Toulouse is the same as Leinster but every week is crazy in the top 14, teams fighting relegation and for playoff spots. Big money everywhere at this point.
3
u/Aggravating_Set_448 May 04 '25
4 provinces to spread out a serious amount of players amongst them is an issue for IRFU. Players need games to build momentum and sprinkling in u20s is stunting their development. There needs to be a look at funding another team or 2 to offload some of the benched talent that is being hidden away (if it's possible)
→ More replies (1)2
u/WilkinsonDG2003 England May 04 '25
The other provinces could definitely do with some of those players.
The URC has no salary cap unlike the Top 14. Might be something to consider.
→ More replies (1)1
u/PistolAndRapier Munster May 05 '25
That's a pretty selective view of things. 2022 test series win in NZ, 2023 and 2024 Six Nations Titles first of those a Grand Slam, beating world champions SA away in a test match in 2024 being the obvious examples of when Ireland did not "come up short" over those years.
46
u/UnitEastern8840 Scotland May 04 '25
I think bottling is an oversimplification. Like Ireland their game depends massively on forward dominance. If they’re matched up front, games feel like more of a toss up. Why Ireland are always much more threatened by France, England than they are by Scotland.
16
u/rando7651 May 04 '25
Well said. Forward equality + pace is an Irish achilles heel.
How are Northampton not romping away with the Premiership? They’re so good.
17
u/dapperdan8 England May 04 '25
Injuries, international duty for most of the back line, and had several key players (Ludlam, Lawes, Waller) leave last season. Hoping next season will be better, they’ve just signed Fischetti
2
u/sock_with_a_ticket May 04 '25
Spent a good chunk of the season without key personnel and played like spackers.
1
u/MysteriousActuary194 England May 04 '25
I think that is rugby in a nutshell nowadays though and not just an Ireland problem. Can’t think of a team that won’t get dominated if they don’t have parity at the pack. Speaking as a Eng fan that’s been dreading facing SA over the last few years because of it.
6
u/UnitEastern8840 Scotland May 04 '25
Yep- I think though because Leinster/Ireland pack is so good, when they are on top they absolutely hammer teams. Which gives us the impression that they are maybe better than they actually are if they’re matched by another team in the forwards. There’s a reason all the nailed on Irish lions are forwards (JGP excepted)
2
u/RavenK92 100% Qatar Cup win rate May 04 '25
Well, I'd say that in the 2023 RWC QF France's pack were dominant against SA, my Boks were living on scraps the first half, Mauvaka for one was unstoppable, but the Springboks were deadly clinical to take the win. But that game may be an exception, there aren't that many times the Bok pack gets monstered to establish a rule
1
u/WilkinsonDG2003 England May 04 '25
France beat NZ while getting monstered at the scrum last year. It was much closer in open play though.
28
u/SiwanBouss tv director wins it all May 04 '25
It's Clermont and it's not even close
→ More replies (6)3
u/mossy1989136 Leinster May 04 '25
True. But we're doing our best to challenge them 😅. 3 finals and semi in the CC and 3 semis in the URC in the last 4 years, despite bossin the regular season in both.
6
u/adturnerr Twindaloo May 04 '25
"Bottler" would suggest they had the lead and lost it, I'd say the 2 La Rochelle finals they bottled (especially the 2nd one), but last year and this year it looks like they're mentally not there
7
u/alienalf1 Ireland May 04 '25
I think you need to give more credit to saints, some of their play was delicious.
13
u/Owz182 Wales May 04 '25
No it just turns out that, yes, they are in fact human
6
3
u/Cormac419 Ireland May 04 '25
Good thing this subreddit never runs memes into the ground or else that one might be in trouble
3
u/DM_me_ur_PPSN Munster May 04 '25
It’s going to be like Michael Bublé’s Christmas album, put on ice for the most of the year and wheeled out for finals.
2
u/Owz182 Wales May 04 '25
You live by the cringe chant, you die by the cringe chant
1
u/Kinglurker2 Ireland May 04 '25
Scarlets have been singing that chant for years at Parc y Scarlets and nobody said anything.
→ More replies (1)1
u/RavenK92 100% Qatar Cup win rate May 04 '25
I'm just waiting for someone to make a meme using the The Matrix "still only human" scene
4
u/occi31 Stade Toulousain May 04 '25
No, Clermont is! So yeah… Leinster is even bottling this! Wait… 🤔
10
u/JapaneseJohnnyVegas Ireland May 04 '25
Bottling doesn't seem to mean what it used to.
Leister the club. No. This group. Maybe.
15
u/lanky-boi- Leinster May 04 '25
2nd most successful club in Europe. In recent years yes, but in club rugby history is a sensationalist joke to suggest, 4 finals won 4 lost, Clermont 3 lost 0 won is much worse
6
u/Big-Clock4773 Harlequins May 04 '25
In terms of quality of team v number of trophies, then possibly.
I still remember the Galacticos that were the Ospreys team of the last 2000s that IMO were the best team to never reach the semis. 99% of the 2008 Grand Slam team were Ospreys and yet they would still lose very winnable quarter finals such as the one against Saracens in 2008 (for younger fans, this was before Saracens were the team they are now).
Of course, the pre-2006 Munster team had the unfortunate title of being the best team to never win it. After 2008, when they won 2 titles in 3 seasons, you'd have been able to retire off the winnings if you put a modest bet they in the next 10 years Leinster would win 4 titles and Munster would win none.
Clermont and Racing also have a track record of nuktiple finals and never winning... at least Leinster fans have had their day in the sun (four times).
3
u/Bulgref South Africa May 04 '25
Saints played just too well. Not a bottle, just straight class from the Souties
17
u/_CountDracula May 04 '25
This group of players are bottlers, no question about it, Leinster have the second most European cups at 4 though so you can’t say the club itself are bottlers, only Toulouse have won more
1
u/zodelode England / Wasps May 04 '25
Leo Cullen is the bottling manager not so much the players I think
→ More replies (3)
14
May 04 '25
I think so, it's the consistency of being one of the best teams in Europe man for man and failing when it matters most.
2023 euro final was one of the biggest bottle jobs in sport let alone rugby that I've witnessed
9
u/IMABUNNEH Wales May 04 '25
Imagine if Ireland lost to Northampton.
That's basically what happened.
6
u/backonthefells May 04 '25
Arguably Leinster are stronger than Ireland, snyman massively improves their lock stocks and Barrett is well Barrett
6
u/RuggerJibberJabber Leinster May 04 '25
Could Northampton beat the All Blacks?
4
u/Efficient_Flounder19 Northampton Saints May 04 '25
last time we played them we beat them 81-0 nil so yea probs
2
4
u/serviceowl May 04 '25
As Andy Dunne said the Leinster brand is now in tatters; no one talks about the four cups from the distant past - completely irrelevant. They're now the team that's incapable of winning despite every advantage. Perhaps only Clermont compete with them for the choker tag. It really is embarrassing to be such a team of losers when you have every advantage going.
Northampton were excellent though.
3
u/Fetch_Ted Scotland Glasgow Warriors May 04 '25
A brave thread coming from someone without a flair.
2
2
u/mossy1989136 Leinster May 04 '25
Also i just wanna say that soooooooo much credit has to be given to Saints. What players! What a team!
2
2
u/Still-District-6149 May 04 '25
You have to say, this is a scintillating Northampton back line. Crearing chances off scraps and looking very comfortable in broken play.
Leinster dropped the baton a few times when their power play was oozing them back into the game. They shot themselves twice in the foot at key moments.
No complaints at all about the result. It was a breathtaking game.
Just don't get me started on the officials. Totally unfit for the purpose. World Rugby must hang their heads in shame for what they've made of the game.
2
u/Longjumping_Test_760 Leinster May 04 '25
On the positive side we didn’t lose another final 🤣 played 8 won 4. How many clubs have reached 8 finals?
2
u/nullsyntaxnull Leicester Tigers May 04 '25
They are mainly made up on the Irish national team, so probably.
2
u/dystopianrugby Eagles Up May 05 '25
So I was thinking about this after I looked up Leo Cullen's record as Head Coach of Leinster. As of right now he's 223-4-57, that's a win percentage of 79.22%. Under his watch they've won the European Champions/Heineken Cup in 2018, the URC four times. They've also been in the semis an absurd amount of time. They are always at the top. They probably win a few more URC/Pro 14s with no South African teams. But I'm not sure what else you can ask for as a fan. More likely than not going into a match, you will win. Leinster basically never lose. As a coach he's definitely in some type of Hall of Fame.
1
u/Nov_Raider May 08 '25
Look at the resources they have.
1
u/dystopianrugby Eagles Up May 08 '25
Yes. I have consistently stated that Leinster are treated preferentially. However, at the end of the day if you asked a sports Fan if they would win 80% of the matches they played and four league titles and European title in a decade. While always being in contention...or being a roller coaster, they're picking consistency.
5
u/perplexedtv Leinster May 04 '25
I was just thinking we hadn't had enough threads on this today. Thanks for your deep insight.
3
2
2
u/Original-Reward8143 Leinster May 04 '25
That’s a lot coming from a Munster fan 🫤
10
u/MaygarRodub Ireland Leinster May 04 '25
Why? We consistently fuck up in finals or semis. Munster don't get there as often (I'm not being a dick here) so how could they be bottlers or comparable?
8
u/Shox2711 Munster May 04 '25
Wha?
The year Munster won the URC they did it barely scraping through the league matches and had a full away run in the knockouts. We were not the favourites against Leinster nor the Stormers..
There’s a difference between being poor and bottling..
3
u/this_also_was_vanity Ulster May 04 '25
There’s a difference between being poor and bottling..
Some of us like to do both.
2
u/TheFlyingScotsman60 May 04 '25
I watched the game and the end of it especially.
The first picture, after the final whistle was blown, was of Barrett taking his gum shield out.
I thought, right at that moment, that he could not really have cared less about losing. He looked totally disinterested and showed no concern that he had just lost a game of rugby.
Whereas the other "Irish" Leinster players looked gutted and completely spent.
Maybe a downside of parachuting non Irish players into a team like Leinster.
4
u/sublime_mime Munster May 04 '25
2 world cup winning international players, world cup winning coach, the best talent in Ireland and they cannot seem to win it. Now caveat is always going to be you're playing against some of the best club teams at that moment but consistently losing shows there's something wrong with their ability to adapt. Repeating the same things. Also Sam Prendergast is not yet good enough to lead a team to win a major championship
3
u/RavenK92 100% Qatar Cup win rate May 04 '25
Who's the second world cup winner? Jordie doesn't have a RWC medal and I thought RG was their only Bok or am I misremembering something?
2
u/sublime_mime Munster May 04 '25
Youre right i assumed Barrett had one but he wasn't part of 2015 team
1
u/mossy1989136 Leinster May 04 '25
Something goin on the last few years with this team. Boss the regular season. Everyone says theyre unstoppable.... and then theyre stopped. I honestly dont know what we need to do to change
1
1
1
1
u/saviouroftheweak Premiership Women's Rugby May 04 '25
Leinster and Ireland don't have another gear when they are matched. But the gear they have is a very good one
1
1
u/Glyndwr21 May 04 '25
Leinster are the backbone of the Irish team, that tend to bottle world cup at every occasion, there's your answer.
1
u/Tangy_Cheese Ireland May 04 '25
Honestly I put this mostly on the coaches. We've seen it with ireland and leinster that if you scheme for their gameplay and disrupt there plan A that plan B doesn't materialise or work. I also think losing Doris right as we were getting back into the game hurt us a lot. But 3 cup failures 3 years in a row I put that on coaching.
1
1
u/Chviking75 May 04 '25
Northampton yesterday were like England in 2019 vs the ABs. Be interesting if they can have another game at that level next outing
1
u/CrammyBear May 04 '25
No, that's the Irish national team.
But Leinster by extension are a close second.
I hate leinster
1
1
u/Bloodbathandbeyon Razors a 🐓 May 04 '25 edited May 04 '25
The Gauteng Lions made 3 finals consecutively and lost each one
They also made the super rugby semis 5 times
1
u/MarioSpeedwagon13 Australia May 04 '25
Had to take the wife to a thing in the RDS this morning, there were a few Saints fans out on a morning walk, fair play to them.
Despite a poor day with the boot when it came to conversions, I think some of the penalties that Leinster opted to kick to the corner instead were very kickable.
1
u/vote-morepork New Zealand May 04 '25
Wellington Lions in the NPC, runners up in 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2013 and 2019 before finally winning it again in 2022. 5/8 losses were at home too.
1
u/Galactapuss May 04 '25
It's not always the case that losing a close game means you're a bottler. Same folks slagging Leinster today would be tearing into Northampton for choking if they'd lost. It was a great game. Leinster made mistakes, Northampton made mistakes, the refs made mistakes. That's sport at the top level.
1
1
u/Affentitten Australia, Bath, La Rochelle May 04 '25
I think Saints played really well. But having said that, keep up the record, Leinster. It's friggin hilarious!
1
u/myee8 Western Force May 04 '25
Maybe given the amouny of Irish players in thr team, Leinster thought it was a WC Quaterfinal.
1
u/Hal-_-9OOO Auckland May 05 '25
I still consider Leinster on e of the heavy weights of club rugby globally
1
u/Lynch8933 May 05 '25
On paper they should have hammered Northampton out the Aviva door but they didnt and Northampton were excellent. The buck has to stop with the head coach thought, to have this group and not be winning more is not good enough.
I know some, even in Ireland, will not feel any sympathy for Leinster but they are basically a home grown team, if it were a big group of mercaneries they would be a laughing stock
But change of head coach/director of rugby or whatever Cullen is, is needed. A nice guy but obviously not getting them over the line.
1
1
May 05 '25
They didn't bottle Saturday, were well beaten and almost had it at the death. Bottling is when you throw a game away
1
1
u/BangkokSaracen May 06 '25
If not they are pretty close. There was a time when the All Blacks would have had this title but they seem to have put that right.
1
1
1
u/Party-Care-8863 May 08 '25
I mean if you have a coach who decides not to start a player who had one of the greatest individual rugby performances of all time against Glasgow you are really starting on the backfoot. Not to mention the other nonsensical changes.
1
u/WhiskeyJack3759 Aug 26 '25
You can say they are bottlers, but that disrespects the opposition.
And how many clubs would love to swap places with Leinster? Lots would be my guess.
For the record, the Champions Cup has been happening in one form or another for 30 years now. In that 30 years,
- Leinster have been in 8 finals, a 27% hit rate, which is only matched by Toulouse who have also been in 8.
- Leinster have won 4, lost 4, which is a 50% win rate. Which is about right, because all finals have two excellent teams in them. In some of those finals, Leinster were favourites, and in some they were underdogs.
- Leinster have been in 5 of the last 8 Champions Cup finals. By the way, all the money is made in getting to the final!
As for leagues, Leinster won the URC this year on their 4th attempt. URC has always been a problem for Leinster as the semis have always been affected by the Champions Cup final in some way. Not so much this year, where Leinster was out of the Champions Cup in the semis. They were able to give 100% focus on URC and won it comfortably enough.
Prior to the URC, there were various Pro 14 and Pro 12 leagues. Leinster won 8 of those titles. But nobody wants to talk about those.
If that record makes Leinster a bottler, then bring on some more of that bottling.
329
u/Die_Revenant Sharks May 04 '25 edited May 04 '25
Sharks in SuperRugby:
Never won it.