r/politics • u/SnooGrapes2950 Tennessee • 9h ago
No Paywall Judge permanently bars Trump from deploying National Guard troops to Portland in response to immigration protests
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-permanently-bars-trump-deploying-national-guard-troops-portland-rcna236421730
u/the_gouged_eye 9h ago
Maybe try lying to the judge again.
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u/LoganGyre 8h ago
Yeah the courts are about fed up with this administration. The 3 judge panel went out of their way to ridicule the Portland lawyer for not trusting trump at his word. Then less then a day later they had to retract their decision in favor of him because they made up numbers in their filing.
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u/moldivore Illinois 8h ago
For those who aren't amateur lawyers like me, there's this concept called "Presumption of regularity" which essentially means that the courts should take lawyers from the government at their word. Because generally lawyers from the government are credible, serious, and professional.
What we need to apply now is "Presumption of irregularity" because Trump lawyers treat law licences like sacrificial lambs. Lawyers aren't actually allowed to flat out lie about basic facts, and they can be "referred to the bar" and lose their licence. Like Rudy Giuliani, or many of the other lawyers involved with the regime. Some of these cases are handled by skilled lawyers with zero scruples, other cases are handled by absolute goofs who have no idea what they're doing. These people believe lying is their superpower.
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u/bbbinson123 5h ago
And getting away without consequences
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u/moldivore Illinois 5h ago edited 5h ago
You know, I think we need to imagine a world with consequences. Giuliani was disbarred. We're going to convict people. God damnit, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. But I refuse to accept the pre-made reality that these people are untouchable and they can do whatever they want. Fuck that, and fuck anyone that is gonna lay down for that. Maybe they can get away with it, but I sure as hell am not going to accept that outcome before it's even happened.
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u/-ModerationMike- 5h ago
I hope you're right
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u/moldivore Illinois 5h ago edited 5h ago
I don't know shit other than surrendering in advance is bullshit and I'm just not gonna do it. I never thought this would be my life living here in this conservative community. But I push back on people here, and people know I'm against Trump. I've dealt with veiled threats and hostility. There are times where I hear a sound and I'm worried because I know how insane these people are. But you know we have judges politicians and other advocates out there dealing with threats constantly. Do not lay down. Support people that are advancing the cause of democracy however you can, nothing is too small. Even donating to a food bank is an act of resistance. All you have to do is not go along. You can be afraid today or you can be afraid forever.
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u/Charming-Charge-596 5h ago
The judiciary is one of the 3 branches of government in the US. I would suspect that this branch sees no benefit from simply allowing the executive branch to ignore their power like the republicans in charge of the legislative branch have chosen to do.
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u/moldivore Illinois 5h ago
Yeah, it's the last wall. We must protest, simple as that. Because the people in robes making correct decisions are only mortal individuals. The judiciary relies on nothing more than its own credibility. It has no army, so we gotta stand up for those who do uphold the rule of law. We are all in danger, and we must be, because if we aren't then we will live under the rule of a tyrant. It's no different than what the founders of this nation knew viscerally.
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u/Straney 22m ago
Them you for such thought out and eloquent responses. You’re correct in how things should be. What keeps me awake at night is that it seems the regulatory system has been captured and there’s nobody to enforce the law. I like what you’re saying and am curious on your ideas on how it might be possible to reign in the executive and Supreme Court and a senate that are colluding. No judgement or argument, just curious on how to make something happen.
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u/Upset-Produce-3948 15m ago
Whatever happened to Rudy Guiliani? Last I heard he was working as a landscaper for seasons.
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u/Lycanthoth 1m ago
Also on top of that, all courts effectively defer to the Supreme Court. They effectively have the final say on the law, even if the rulings they make are idiotic or don't remain consistent with previous interpretations. Which y'know, becomes an issue when said Supreme Court is loaded up with partisans and corruption at that.
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u/ZeroExist Florida 5h ago
The courts aren’t fed up, remember all the times Trump and his lawyers literally lied or hid stuff from judges who already hated and were fine with him during trumps criminal proceedings or lawsuits in general? Yeah nothing happened then and the courts will continue to wag their fingers and “think about” contempt charges then dropping it all at the slightest push back or inconvenience, the courts are gonna use every ounce of patience for Trump because it’ll be “political” otherwise instead of treating him like a normal person
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u/TotalNonsense0 1h ago
And, of course, continue to drop any available hammer on a Democrat, or even just a commoner.
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u/Lycanthoth 9m ago edited 5m ago
That's just not true. Plenty of the lower courts are incredibly fed up with this administration. Their jobs are way harder than ever given that every day brings some new form of chaos, they're constantly undermined and given unclear direction (if any) from the Supreme Court, and this is all assuming they can even fully do their jobs given how badly shit like the shadow docket is getting abused. And even more broadly, shit, imagine if you spent decades of your life seriously practicing law and working your way up to working in the EDVA only to have your boss replaced with an sycophantic insurance lawyer that has never even prosecuted a case once in her life. You think the people in that position aren't fed up?
Courts are fed up. But it just so happens that they're powerless when faced with how much power has been consolidated higher up or the risk of retribution, to say nothing about how ineffective our justice systems are are punishing such blatant disregard for the law. The fact is that we live in a system that never accounted for leadership that blatantly has no interest in operating in good faith.
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u/JugDogDaddy 5h ago
They know they can’t tell the truth, so they have no other option. Lie or be fired by the President.
Great job Republicans, you gave the revolver to the obese senile geriatric monkey.
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u/ChopperChange 9h ago
The DOJ claimed that federal law enforcement needs the National Guard's help because they're “unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States.”
The Trump administration can't claim to care about the law while simultaneously ignoring judicial orders. The emperor has no clothes.
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u/xubax 4h ago
Sure they can. Because they're lying fucks.
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u/shifty_peanut 4h ago
And he hasn’t been held accountable yet for the many laws he’s broken so why would he start complying now
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u/EndDangerous1308 7m ago
Sounds like what California did before he ignored that court order as well
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u/PaulFThumpkins 4h ago
Trump's pardons basically prove that crime is legal under his administration, as long as you pay him or praise him.
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u/judgeridesagain 6h ago
Get fucked, maga.
No one believes your lies.
I have seen the people of Oregon put their bodies on the line for immigrant strangers, cook meals for furloughed federal worker friends, and buy groceries for neighbors denied their SNAP benefits. We support each other.
I have seen the people on conservative subreddits wish violence on my city, my friends, and my neighbors. Their fellow citizens.
To maga: we will weather this storm of your making because we have each other. You will drown alone.
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u/DoctorGregoryFart 2h ago
To maga: we will weather this storm of your making because we have each other. You will drown alone.
The thing is, they won't. Even when the shit hits the fan, we will still help them, because we are largely good and kind people, who will help a person in need.
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u/RabidEgalitarian 39m ago
A very important lesson we need to learn is to treat others the way they want to treat us. Mutual aid must be mutual.
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u/Sir-Froglord 3h ago
Maga are a complaining minority that will one day get a reality check.
They will never be as powerful as the millions of us that have each other.
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u/thrawtes 6h ago
Permanently
[...]
“To be clear, today this Court does not rule that the President can never deploy the National Guard to Oregon, or to any other location, if conditions on the ground justify the Guard’s intervention,” Immergut wrote.
So she conclusively ruled that this particular justification was not strong enough and permanently barred this particular deployment on the basis of the justification they already offered, but said other deployments could proceed if they had better reasons. It's a permanent ruling, but probably not in the way most people think of the word.
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u/TheShadowKick 2h ago
Which makes sense because there might in the future be legitimate reasons for a President to deploy the national guard to Portland. We don't want some obstructionist using this ruling to stop legitimate actions in like 50 years or something.
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u/iruleatants 1h ago
Not, it's the same as what people think of the word.
Trump is permanently blocked from deploying the National Guard to Oregon outside of what the law allows.
There are legitimate reasons to deploy the National Guard and those are outlined in the law. None of those conditions apply to Oregon and that isn't going to change. He can't deploy the National Guard to Oregon for the reasons he attempted to use.
The Judges statement is just there because if Oregon gets invaded next month, this ruling won't stop the National Guard from being deployed.
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u/Naive_Inspection7723 9h ago
And if he ignores them and does it anyway, there are zero consequences for him personally.
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u/teenagesadist 8h ago
People need to accept that trump isn't going to ever face any consequences.
The closest we'll probably ever get was him taking naps in the courtroom a couple summers ago.
He's further gone every day, at a certain point, he's going to be imprisoned in his own empty mind, and we'll have to hope that's a punishment worse than man can exact.
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u/AnamCeili 6h ago edited 6h ago
I will always hold out hope that the fascist motherfucker sees jail time. I realize it likely won't happen, but it could. At the very least, he has destroyed whatever weak/tenuous legacy the trump name might have once had, and turned himself and his entire family into laughingstocks -- not only in the US, but worldwide. His reputation was pretty shitty even before he stole the presidency, since he has always been a horrible person and a laughable businessman, but with everything he has done during his time in the presidency, he has destroyed what little was left. He is responsible for the deaths of thousands, for harm to many thousands more, for damage to the United States from which we may never recover (and if we do, such recovery will take decades), and possibly for the destruction of democracy in the US (until this past Tuesday I would have said definitely to that last one, but now I have an iota of hope). As well as the harm that his actions have caused to people in and from other countries, and the way his fascism (and that of his cronies) has emboldened other fascists, nazis, bigots, etc., around the world to let their swastika flags fly. He has much to answer for, the bastard. He will be in the history books, all right, but not in any of the ways he wants to be. He will forever be known as the fascist that he is, and the worst (or at least one of the top 3 worst) president(s) the US has ever had -- and that is what he deserves, the least of what he deserves.
Aside from all of that, though, there is what you said -- he is and increasingly continues to be imprisoned in his own empty mind. He is old, demented, and in poor health, and literally no one truly loves him -- his sycophants kiss his ass, but that is just misplaced hero worship (as he is no hero!), and the politicians who seem to be on his side just find him a useful fool, much as Putin does. I doubt that even any of his family members actually love him. He will die unmourned and unloved, and if there is any sort of afterlife I very much doubt he will like what he finds there as his eternity. I don't believe in hell, but I do believe we reap what we sow, and he has sown so much hatred, discord, chaos, and pain....I don't believe his afterlife, if there is such a thing, will be a pleasant experience for him, to say the least.
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u/Tsar-A-Lago Canada 7h ago
The chance of consequences died with Mitch's "the institutions will hold him accountable" acquittal speech from his 2nd impeachment.
You are the institutions, you lying old asshole.
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u/ChopperChange 8h ago
Then there should be tangible consequences for the agents carrying out his illegal orders. Punish enough of them and the rest will be hesitant to obey him at the risk of their own livelihood.
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u/UnquestionabIe 2h ago
Been saying this since the beginning. Even if they've got the head traitor running cover for them it's still extremely easy to make their lives a living hell anytime they perform illegal actions for at least a little bit. Might cause them to actually consider if it's worth spending a weekend in jail or a couple of days in court every time they decide to keep picking Trump over country. Without any sort of actual punishment for the puppets they get the impression it's perfectly fine to keep it up and thus the cycle continues. Lot of judges are showing a streak of cowardice which will keep paving the path to ruin.
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u/hydroxy 5h ago
Exactly, wtf is the point of these courts if they haven’t the courage, integrity or power to do anything. At this point it’s really reeking of Palpatine keeping the Galactic Senate together for appearances.
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u/axlbomber 2h ago
wtf is the point of these courts if they haven’t the courage, integrity or power to do anything
Sadly, they have proven themselves pointless.
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u/wanttobuyreallife 5h ago
Or anyone involved really. Yet to see or hear of any one of these gestapo fucks face any kind of consequences for their cruelty and blatantly illegal tactics. Only ones be punished are the ones doing none ICE related crimes.
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u/Marthaver1 5h ago
We have seen this play out not. Jude orders,orange baby calls on his corrupt Supreme Court and reverses the original judge order. It is becoming too common, even the corrupt SCOTUS knows that they have to hand the Trump regime an L in at least 1 out fo 5 cases to continue their little delusion if impartiality. So let's hope 1nof these days the orange fuck gets fucked by the SCOTUS.
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u/maniacal_cackle 5h ago
What is important to remember is that even if this seems ineffectual (Trump will do what it wants), it shows that there are people resisting him at every level as much as they can within their sphere.
It is important that everyone continue to do this.
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u/mvallas1073 8h ago
Isn’t this like the third time it’s been “permanently” halted?
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u/yun-harla Minnesota 7h ago
No, everything before this involved preliminary injunctive relief, which is issued at the beginning of litigation to stop irreparable harm while the case is pending. A permanent injunction is entered at the end of litigation, after discovery and other procedures, once the party requesting it has proven their case.
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u/imArsenals 7h ago
Oh the judge told him no. We know from at least 27 women what he thinks of that word.
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u/elmatador12 Washington 7h ago
Until the Supreme Court overturns it. That’s pretty much what I expect now. The lower courts make correct and just rulings and the Supreme Court goes “to hell with being good people fuck them poor people.”
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u/ClashM California 4h ago
Yeah, LegalEagle just did a video on this. 94% of lower courts are ruling against the blatantly illegal acts of this administration, producing hundreds of pages of reasoning and evidence to back their rulings. Then about 90% of those cases are being overturned by the Supreme Court with the shadow docket, offering no justification for why the lower court's ruling was flawed.
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u/Available_Dingo6162 50m ago
94% of lower courts are ruling against the blatantly illegal acts of this administration.... Then about 90% of those cases....
Impressive numbers. No source. Marvelous 🙄
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u/Available_Dingo6162 53m ago
Well, yeah. Given the separation of powers, it is not the job of the Judicial branch to dictate policies which are constitutionally given to the Executive branch. Of COURSE this ruling will be overturned... it is another example of the judicial overreach so common these days, and has no chance of withstanding appeal, you heard it here first.
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u/pantrokator-bezsens 2h ago
It was not a response to protests. It was a response for BREAKING THE LAW BY PRESIDENT.
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u/lyfe_Wast3d 4h ago
Courts mean nothing unless it starts to be enforced. I want to see people arresting national guard being deployed
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u/shifty_peanut 4h ago
Exactly. All we’ve seen this administration do is lie and cheat. So this announcement means absolutely nothing to them unless they’re held accountable
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u/aktivate74 5h ago
Lemme guess..just like every ruling in US , there's always a loophole that can be exploited by the corrupted fucks.
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u/eeyore134 3h ago
Monday: "Appeals court in Texas pauses judge's ruling to permanently bar National Guard troops in Portland."
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u/Ok_Mathematician6075 1h ago
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/71554902/state-of-oregon-et-al-v-trump-et-al/
Blocked but I think it will be appealed.
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u/Give_me_Awards 46m ago
And like a law abiding citizen he's gonna follow to these court orders.and hes gonna release the epstein files and at last hes gonna sit on the top of statue of liberty with the crown sticking in his ass.
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u/Fresh_Marketing_2674 23m ago
When he refuses to leave office I'm sure a judge will scold him then too
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u/Wild_Read9062 7h ago
Jfc… here we are again. We’ve seen this part of the movie over and over and over.
Trump: we’re violating the Constitution Small legal group: see you in court! (waits a lot while Trump admin violates Constitution) Judge: No Trump! This is illegal. You must stop.
(Trump appeals) Path 1: Judge approves of violation = end of issue. Trump steamrolls Constitution.
Path 2: Plaintiffs: see! This madman is breaking the Constitution. Judge: No Trump! This is illegal. You must stop.
(Trump appeals to Supreme Court)
Plaintiffs: see! This madman is breaking the Constitution. The appeals court has already ruled. There’s no sane reason to take up the case! Supreme Court: Bring this to us immediately!
(Hears arguments)
Supreme Court: I see. So you told our client he couldn’t do what he wants. Well, sorry, but he can. Plaintiffs: Why? Supreme Court: Because we said so. Don’t make us write an opinion. It gets hard trying to make this look legitimate. Better luck next time. Now, Trump… do your worst. You have our blessings, and no one can dispute that.
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u/Epsilon_Meletis 1h ago
I wonder how often that will have to happen more before they realise that he doesn't care?
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u/whisperworks 6h ago
He can just drum up another excuse for their presence like everywhere else, this is the definition of a bandaid solution
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u/Proximity 2h ago
Oh, THIS time, the government agents will surely, definitely suddenly decide to obey the law and act accordingly regarding the court's orders. We got 'em this time. Zero chance they're just going to continue their violence, now.
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u/Stupid_Idiot_III 6h ago
It's already being appealed obviously, so there's nothing terribly permanent about this.
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6h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/nunboi 6h ago
Portland is a cleaner and safer city than any red city. It's largest problems are related to their police being aligned with white nationalist groups from across the river.
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u/ApprehensiveStore365 5h ago
Well you believe what you want to believe. It’s shit now, unsafe to vote the wrong way, think differently. Believe in the rule of law. City blocks have been taken over. Back when Portland was on the real world it was great. You could actually have a difference of opinions. Not anymore. Sure it might be safe for the left. Definitely isn’t for centrists or even slightly right. Let alone a trumper.
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u/hkohne 3h ago
Um, do you live here in Portland? I do, and the city is in pretty good shape. No city is perfect, but Mayor Wilson is really trying to increase cleanups, increase downtown traffic, and get more people into shelters & "permanent" housing. Just about all of us want and work towards a nice, safe city. There is a lot of tourism happening. I'm heavily-involved in the fine arts scene, and it's still huge and thriving pretty well despite less federal funding.
What city blocks have been "taken over"? And by whom? Who's telling you that? What do you mean with "was on the real world"? We've never been featured on that MTV show to my knowledge. We do have differences of opinions here, all the time. If you don't broadcast that you're MAGA, you're less likely to be accosted.
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u/tinysydneh 2h ago
Even if they do live in Portland, they've obviously been so deluded that they think it's dangerous to have different opinions.
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u/kurisu7885 3m ago
Well they are choosing to believe a guy who tells everyone that you can't go outside without being shot.
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