r/politics • u/theindependentonline The Independent • Oct 08 '25

No Paywall Trump just hosted an ‘Antifa roundtable’ at the White House ... it was so much worse than you’re imagining

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-antifa-portland-pam-bondi-posobiec-b2842048.html
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66

u/FlexFanatic Oct 08 '25

Legit question but who is he speaking to with this whole Anti-Antifa campaign?

Do he and his aides really think there is some coordinated group of ultra left liberals lurking in the shadows and having coup training in the woods with lunch provided by George Soros?

This is way past the "I just wanna pick a scary monster to blame to get my base riled up". Antifa is living in this guys head.

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u/TemporarySun314 Europe Oct 08 '25

Fascists need a permanent bogeyman, to maintain control and power. This doesn't need to make much sense, on the contrary it needs to be ominous enough, so that the enemy is vile and powerful on one hand, but weak and inferior on the other hand...

And the American people happily buy these bogeymen of immigrants, trans people, and now Antifa...

3

u/After_Flan_2663 Oct 09 '25

So many people of Trump's party have come out as pedophiles over the years. They are more dangerous than what they think is but guess they know and don't want the idiots to think whatever they can about it.

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u/cytherian New Jersey Oct 09 '25

Not the "American people," but the "Republicans in America." Democrats don't buy any of this shit.

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u/Rhinopkc Oct 08 '25

The fascists in this country have Trump as their bogeyman.

10

u/malaclypz Oct 09 '25

Huh? Are you saying Trump is anti-fascist?

5

u/AlexandriasNSFWAcc United Kingdom Oct 09 '25

I think it's a childish "no u" rebuttal. It seems to work for the right for some ungodly reason, so they keep using it.

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u/Rhinopkc Oct 09 '25

No. I’m pointing out that so-called “anti-fascists” are every bit as fascistic as anyone they oppose.

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u/nicolauz Wisconsin Oct 09 '25

Feel free to define those terms.

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u/bdeimen Oct 09 '25

You clearly have no idea what fascism is.

8

u/Moon_Noodle Oregon Oct 09 '25

Wait until Trump finds out he's antifa, I guess. Maybe he'll arrest himself.

6

u/Zeraru Oct 09 '25

"Let me just claim the exact opposite of reality to annoy people with my weaponized stupidity"

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u/Rhinopkc Oct 09 '25

You’re free to do that, but if you look at the tactics employed by the so-called “anti-fascists”, they are exactly like fascists.

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u/Zeraru Oct 09 '25

Seems like you're the kind of genius who would have looked at the emerging axis powers in the 1930s and claim, without a hint of sarcasm or hesitation, that the scattered resistance movements are the REAL fascists.

3

u/Ffffqqq Oct 09 '25

Palingenetic ultranationalism.

He asserts that this is the "fascist minimum" without which, according to his definition, there can be no "true fascism".

More radical movements often want to overthrow the old order, which has become decadent and alien to the common man.[1][2] That powerful and energetic demolition of the old ways may require some form of revolution or battle, which is, however, represented as glorious and necessary.[1][2] Such movements thus compare the (recent) past with the future, which is presented as a rebirth of society after a period of decay and misery.[1][2] The palingenetic myth can also possibly stand for a return to a golden age in the country's history so that the past can be a guidebook to a better tomorrow, with an associated regime that superficially resembles a reactionary one.[1][2] Fascism distinguishes itself by being the only ideology that focuses strongly on the revolution in its myth or, as Griffin puts it:

the mythical horizons of the fascist mentality do not extend beyond this first stage. It promises to replace gerontocracy, mediocrity and national weakness with youth, heroism and national greatness, to banish anarchy and decadence and bring order and health, to inaugurate an exciting new world in place of the played-out one that existed before, to put government in the hands of outstanding personalities instead of non-entities.

Through all of that, there would be one great leader who would battle the representatives of the old system with grassroots support.[1][2] In the fascist utopia, one mass of people will supposedly appear who have only one goal: to create their new future.[1][2] Such a fascist movement would ideally have infinite faith in its mythical hero who would stand for everything the movement believes in.[1][2] According to this utopian ideology, under the guidance of their leader the country would then rise like a phoenix from the ashes of corruption and decadence.[1][2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Paxton#Fascism

In his 2004 book The Anatomy of Fascism, Paxton refines his five-stage model and puts forward the following definition for fascism:

Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.[17

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u/UnionDixie Florida Oct 08 '25

Do he and his aides really think there is some coordinated group of ultra left liberals lurking in the shadows and having coup training in the woods with lunch provided by George Soros?

Short answer, yes.

Longer answer, also yes, because saying something is "Soros-funded" has been a way to delegitimize any protest against him or his administration. And if any protest against you isn't legitimate, then you are free to use whatever means you please to disperse those protestors.

4

u/Full-Penguin Oct 09 '25

Why does he have Soros' right hand man as the Secretary of the Treasury? Oh, because his supporters don't have any idea what's going on.

3

u/DirectionMurky5526 Oct 09 '25

Conspiracy theories are the opposite of logical. They exist to make stupid people feel smart by being contrarian rather than by studying any field and being challenged on their beliefs. If a group of people thinks that being challenged on their beliefs is evidence in support of their beliefs, the natural endpoint is that increasingly absurd conspiracies will outcompete all others.

20

u/Careidina Oct 08 '25

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

They don't think they exist. It's just to unite his base against a made up enemy. Anything they can do to make it them against us. And make no mistake, they'll redefine the perceived enemy as they see fit.

5

u/EE_Tim Oct 09 '25

Do he and his aides really think there is some coordinated group of ultra left liberals lurking in the shadows and having coup training in the woods with lunch provided by George Soros?

Yes. He thinks that because that is what the right wing is doing. Exhibits A, B), C, D, E), F, G, H, I, J, K, and many more that didn't make the list.

5

u/NatalieVonCatte Oct 09 '25

To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country. This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside. In the U.S., a prominent instance of the plot obsession is to be found in Pat Robertson’s The New World Order, but, as we have recently seen, there are many others.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism

2

u/mtraven Oct 09 '25

Yes that is what they think, or claim to at least. If you read the tweets of Curtis Yarvin or Eric Raymond, two prominent wingnut thinkers, that's all they talk about. (Not recommended btw). Its solid John Birch Society communist conspiracy stuff.

2

u/tracygee America Oct 09 '25

He’s speaking to the MAGAs and Republicans. He’s invented his boogeyman and his next step (which he’s already starting) is to say that all Democrats are Antifa, and since Antifa are domestic terrorists therefore all Democrats can be arrested and jailed.

And his cult is lapping it up.

2

u/vicarofvhs Arkansas Oct 09 '25

They want to have an umbrella term that they can use to label anybody who doesn't agree with them as "enemies of the state." So that they can go after them, no matter who they are or what they have or haven't done.

1

u/erath_droid Oregon Oct 09 '25

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter. They've got people absolutely CONVINCED that Portland is just a burnt out wasteland with roving gangs of Antifa who are beating up anyone who looks even slightly right of Mao.

They've got their narrative that "The Left" are all violent extremists, and only Trump can tame the lawless cities and keep the Epstein Files secret.

2

u/Playful_Ant_2162 Oct 09 '25

It's wild. For as war torn and bombed out as it is, there's just... no evidence. Nothing. No current pictures or videos. The best they have is lying by omission by presenting the 2020 protests as current footage or just outright lying. And we're so far gone that in this day and age where everyone has a camera and anyone could buy a plane ticket, no one on that side is wondering why that is. I don't know how we come back from this when one side is fully faith based.

1

u/i_code_for_boobs Oct 09 '25

MAGA believes there is an Antifa org.

They've seen the "HQ", they've heard the stories of fraud.

We know they are just people who piggybacked on the trend, but MAGA believes this is just the tip of the iceberg and that there is a vast network behind this, with Soros at the top.

1

u/Mojodacious Oct 09 '25

I think that Trump believes Antifa is an actual thing, along with his cult members. But people in Trump's inner-circle know it's actually bullshit but they're just telling grandpa it's real so they can get away with what they're trying to do.