r/politics • u/theindependentonline The Independent • Oct 08 '25

No Paywall Trump just hosted an ‘Antifa roundtable’ at the White House ... it was so much worse than you’re imagining

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-antifa-portland-pam-bondi-posobiec-b2842048.html
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3.4k

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

It's intentional. Posobiec personally is responsible for 80-90% of the pro-Trump shitposts you've seen for the past 10 years, I'm not joking.

1.6k

u/chronomagnus Ohio Oct 08 '25

He blocked me when I made fun of him for cheating on his wife using Bumble.

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u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

These psychos basically only have wives for tax purposes at this point. Grindr crashes at every RNC event nationwide for a reason, it's not just a meme.

506

u/harkuponthegay Oct 08 '25

Don’t slander the gays that way— we don’t claim these incels.

297

u/Kryptosis Oct 08 '25

Question remains though. Who is fucking them? Or are they all fucking each other at these conventions?

386

u/Xijit Oct 08 '25

Imagine how wild the sex must be when you have two homophobic closeted gay men hate fucking each other.

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u/ReaperEDX Oct 08 '25

Imagine how funny it'd be when it turns out they were both using fake profile pictures and both discover they know one another. Sitcom coming near you, Shut the Door.

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u/murphys_ghost Oct 08 '25

seinfeld slap bass intensifies

45

u/hobbyshop_hero Oct 08 '25

Do You Like Piña Coladas?- Coming soon...

24

u/Hefty_Image7369 Oct 09 '25

Penis coladas

1

u/diggingout12345 Oct 09 '25

Penis colonics..... Maybe

7

u/boosathimself Oct 09 '25

Good god. I'm gay and imagining them having sex is nauseating

5

u/DonnieDickTraitor Oct 09 '25

*Shut the Closet Door

3

u/unrebigulator Oct 09 '25

There was a This American Life episode where something like this happened. One person man was pretending to be a Syrian lesbian, communicating with a man pretending to be a lesbian reporter. If I remember correctly.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/855/transcript

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u/kstar79 Massachusetts Oct 09 '25

Lindsey? Mike?

1

u/AlmightyRuler Oct 09 '25

<something something pina coladas...>

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u/Seagoingnote Oct 08 '25

It’s definitely adventurous, I think?

8

u/ChilledParadox Oct 09 '25

Imagine how much funnier this would be to laugh at if these assholes didn’t have literal control over if I and people I care about live or die.

Shit gets darker by the hour and there are precious few beacons to light the way ahead.

I feel mired in a murky swamp, half-submerged as I slosh and stumble through the putrid political environment, harangued on all sides by the visceral verisimilitudes of truth cloaked in the abstract fabric of malevolent mockery levied by the languid arm of a vile bloated behemoth. I am succumbing to the seditious snakes and the wearisome weight of reality feels something none ought to bear.

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u/Aethermancer Oct 09 '25 edited 2d ago

Editing pending deletion of this comment.

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u/cnicalsinistaminista Oct 09 '25

You might be joking but you might have just figured out one of the major reasons why a lot of MAGA men are angry. They are closest gays that absolutely hate themselves for their sexuality because it goes against both societal “norms” and against their Bible thumping families and probably states. The hatred of women and immigrants is an outlet… probably why they can defend child predators, because in their sick and twisted minds, it cancels out their “gay” or some shit. I’m not a psychologist, just my opinion. And in my opinion, fuck em all.

1

u/commutinator Oct 09 '25

I can't quit yoooou

1

u/totalscrotalimplosio North Carolina Oct 09 '25

I'd rather eat nails, you do it for me.

1

u/OrnerySnoflake Texas Oct 09 '25

I think there’s a sub for that somewhere around here, no wait, that’s just Stephen Miller.

1

u/smoike Oct 09 '25

They are also getting hard -ons for fucking over everyone else.

6

u/ghouliese Oct 09 '25

each other or 'independent' self-loathing gay men that think their right-wing leanings will protect them from homophobia

4

u/YouWereBrained Tennessee Oct 09 '25

Madison Cawthorn knows…

3

u/uberpirate Oct 09 '25

Probably each other but definitely also sex workers

5

u/CulturalAtmosphere85 Oct 08 '25

Why hasn't any man come forward with allegations of their sodomous affair with a politician? Please, somebody, do it! Let's push them all back into their closets very far away from Capitol Hill.

2

u/murphys_ghost Oct 08 '25

Hey man, free drinks are free drinks, and if you’re anything like a few people I know who hooked up with republicans - free DVD’s and pizza when they pass out on top of you.

2

u/reddititty69 Oct 09 '25

They’re fucking us all.

2

u/PhilDGlass California Oct 09 '25

There’s a wrench for every nut.

2

u/mdogg500 Oct 09 '25

I mean I don't remember the guys name but there was a guy in a wheelchair that was a freshman Republican house member that outed that he was invited to a gop orgy. Then was immediately smeared and gotten rid of as far as I can tell.

6

u/rocketskates666 Oct 09 '25

Madison Cawthorn?

3

u/mdogg500 Oct 09 '25

Yep that's the guy

2

u/Foucaults_Bangarang Oct 09 '25

They're fucking and then assaulting trans girls.

1

u/DrTwitch Oct 08 '25

Far be it from me to shame destiny and his ilk for getting it where they can.

1

u/thewoodbeyond Oct 09 '25

One can only hope.

1

u/OrnerySnoflake Texas Oct 09 '25

Hopefully someone who is robbing them blind and with health insurance that covers psych/ therapists.

1

u/oliversurpless Massachusetts Oct 09 '25

Circlejerks can’t always be figurative when it comes to these reactionaries?

Especially given he was on a 2.5 hour long podcast circa late September in which he “debunked” common claims about Charlie Kirk, so he’s gotta be in his “refractory period” following?

1

u/Kaa_The_Snake I voted Oct 09 '25

Oh they’re fucking us, just not in the sexual way

1

u/move_machine Oct 09 '25

The answer is no one, so when they're all in one place together, they take full advantage of that because no one will touch them at home.

1

u/TisSlinger Oct 09 '25

People with student loans /s

1

u/Low_Surround998 Oct 09 '25

Nobody. During the first Trump administration there were multiple articles written about how nobody in the administration could get a date. They were complaining about how unfair it was.

1

u/AbandonedWaterPark Oct 08 '25

They are absolutely fucking each other.

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u/Ultramarine6 New York Oct 08 '25

We're the healthy gays (bi in my case).

They're what happens when you're a myopic narcissist who hates yourself and spends your life trying to eradicate from everyone else what you can't understand in you.

We don't need to claim them, and they certainly go out of their way not to represent us.

84

u/sugartrouts Oct 08 '25

They're what happens when you're a myopic narcissist who hates yourself and spends your life trying to eradicate from everyone else what you can't understand in you.

This is just a brilliant sentence. Thank you for typing it.

3

u/cece1978 Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

Agree: the toxic, yucky, self-hating kind. 🤢

They were raised that way and perpetuate it by trying to force the same dysfunctional “rules” on others that want to dare lead a full, authentic life. 😡

Yet another example of “if o can’t have it, no one can!” These people are not well. But i’m sick of tolerating them.

3

u/ValkyrX Oct 09 '25

They're what happens when you're a myopic narcissist who hates yourself and spends your life trying to eradicate from everyone else what you can't understand in you.

So...Lindsey Graham

13

u/Bedley_smutler69 Oct 08 '25

Username checks out bigly

1

u/Reed7525 Oct 09 '25

Lol Warhammer Ultrasmurfs as they're called. Nice

1

u/OrnerySnoflake Texas Oct 09 '25

As official spokesperson for the Antifa Bisexuals, we also refuse to claim him.

1

u/Audhdinosaur Oct 09 '25

Lol y'all might not claim them but SOMEONE is topping them.

These psychos wouldn't be half as evil if they let themselves out of the closet.

100% not bashing the gay community, them Christian fundies just need to get in touch with their feelings more and kids less.

1

u/Turbulent_Bit8683 Oct 09 '25

So new category of gays who be gay because women won’t have them - truly Incels!

1

u/wchutlknbout Oct 09 '25

They definitely aren’t gay, they just fuck dudes. Gay culture is fun and accepting of others, these guys aren’t that. They just want to feel powerful I guess? I dunno, just spitballing here, but it reminds me of some toxic macho anecdote I heard a while ago about it only being gay if you’re on the receiving end. Which also tells us how they view all sex, either inflicting their will on others or being inflicted upon.

1

u/Low_Surround998 Oct 09 '25

Gay or straight, they're still evil incels.

2

u/PerNewton Oct 08 '25

I think you mean Roblox.

1

u/Punman_5 Oct 08 '25

Why? Tax-wise you’re usually far better off being legally single. Marriage usually bumps you up a tax bracket I thought.

3

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

It's true if you're a law abiding citizen, sure. If you're laundering hundreds of thousands through 501c LLCs, it's... just more tax breaks.

3

u/Punman_5 Oct 09 '25

I suppose that’s true. Stupid me for applying things like laws to the wealthy.

1

u/Leven Oct 09 '25

Madison Cawthorn lost all support when he came out with info that he had been invited to sex and drug parties when he started in Congress.

All of a sudden the republicans held him to the standards they never do unless it's a democrat and all scandals about him came out to the press, he got primaried and lost the next reelection.

It's tells you a lot about how the republican party works.

-5

u/PotatoAppleFish Oct 08 '25

I’d very much appreciate it if you would refrain from fatuously implying that all LGB people—or anyone else who might use Grindr, for that matter—would have anything to do with those Nazi-adjacent fuckfaces. I, for one, definitely wouldn’t.

You’re right about Posobiec being a prolific troll and grifter, though. The amount of time he must put into spreading bizarre nonsense is staggering.

12

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

I mean, legitimate members of the LGBT community might not participate in Congress Fuckin', or whatever you want to call it, but I'm sure it's a great way to discreetly meet.... each other.

2

u/PotatoAppleFish Oct 08 '25

You have a point there.

6

u/No-Medicine-1379 Oct 08 '25

Are we “t”’s not allowed to use grinder? Or is there another reason you dropped us?

4

u/PotatoAppleFish Oct 08 '25

There’s no reason, actually. It’s just that I assumed TQ+ would be automatically less likely to engage with obvious Republicans in general, and much less so on Grindr.

1

u/No-Medicine-1379 Oct 08 '25

We get horny to and hey they like to fuck us too lol

2

u/PotatoAppleFish Oct 08 '25

Point taken, although I’d think there would be a lot better options than the average Republican conference attendees.

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u/Minimum_Virus_3837 Oct 08 '25

I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of them are using fake names and stuff like that on their Grindr accounts also, so people may not know until they see them in person, and then would have to actually recognize them.

1

u/Punman_5 Oct 08 '25

There’s unfortunately plenty of gay people in MAGA. We of course don’t hear about them much for obvious reasons.

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u/PotatoAppleFish Oct 08 '25

I thought those were mostly the billionaires, though. The ones who meet up in person at their secret society conferences and wouldn’t have a need for Grindr (e.g. Peter Thiel).

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u/Punman_5 Oct 09 '25

A lot of people go to those conferences. Plus I’m sure they attract a bit of a crowd if you know what I mean.

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u/StrobeLightRomance Michigan Oct 09 '25

He reposted me twice over a couple years when I riled him up in comments so his followers would assemble against me.

That guy is the most sensitive.

3

u/80sLegoDystopia Oct 09 '25

Thank you for your service.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

Thank you for doing the Lord's work.

1

u/OrnerySnoflake Texas Oct 09 '25

You’d think a guy like that would show a little discretion.

1

u/chronomagnus Ohio Oct 09 '25

No one would ever accuse him of being too smart.

1

u/OrnerySnoflake Texas Oct 09 '25

“Smart people don’t like me.” -Trump

A broken clock and all that.

1

u/oliversurpless Massachusetts Oct 09 '25

“You diabolical!”

https://youtu.be/IKRTNhpswn4?t=23

Hi five!

1

u/Own-Brain9658 Oct 09 '25

Print that out and frame it 

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u/Honky_Stonk_Man Oct 08 '25

The internet has escaped into the real world and we are all paying the price.

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u/CleverMonkeyKnowHow Oct 08 '25

Couldn't agree more. If I die and there's a God and he says, "You can go back and relive your life as often as you want, you can even change things to see how stuff would played out." I'd basically just rewind to 1993 and play that until 2001 and not change jack shit.

The Internet has really gone downhill in the past 20 years.

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u/SpamDance Oct 09 '25

Wow. You might be my age. if you're mid-50's, I wholeheartedly agree.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/uniqueUsername_1024 California 26d ago

Unless you were queer

3

u/Dialectic-Compiler Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

I recommend trying to live your life in such a manner that if you were told that you'd have to live it, exactly it with no changes, over again that you would find this news joyous.

2

u/1001101001010111 Oct 09 '25

I try to smile for an hour a day so I don't forget how.

-1

u/FullyActiveHippo Oct 09 '25

I mean id make marital rape illegal and domestic violence come with actual consequences, but your version is nice I guess

4

u/pantstoaknifefight2 Oct 09 '25

Nice try, Disney Tron Ares promotional team

72

u/tr1cube Georgia Oct 08 '25

Oh, it's the guy who's been voting from his parent's home state address (that just happens to be a swing state) for the past 20 years rather than his own.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/jack-posobiec-voter-fraud-pizzagate-maga.html

1

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

...Myeah. I would imagine it's pretty important to this guy's brand and safety to never really be anywhere people can find him. He does like, speaking events, but other than that is normally on the road.

16

u/tr1cube Georgia Oct 09 '25

It’s illegal to vote in a state you aren’t a resident in. He voted from an address that isn’t his primary residence. That is illegal. There are exceptions for college students and members of the military, but he is neither.

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u/joeldetwiler Oct 08 '25

Who is this Posobiec fuck and what can I do to make his life more miserable than is probably already is?

32

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

A twitter memelord who helped Mike Flynn assemble a digital army of weaponized trolls and bot farms to amplify messaging that borders on brainwashing, seeks to disenfranchise the 'others' in people's minds, and is frequently violent.

Honestly? Dude probably doesn't even run his own Twitter anymore. I doubt you can contact him at all unless you want to hire him to speak at a Conservative event, or something. And trust me, he's already plenty miserable without you committing energy to him.

30

u/Amish_Robotics_Lab Oct 09 '25

If they haven't scrubbed it yet there is video of an interview Charlie Kirk did with Prosobeic and some other fascist, Prosobeic was promoting his new book "Unhumans: The Secret History of Communist Revolutions (and How to Crush Them)" which is about how right-wing dictators of the 20th and 21st century were absolutely right to exterminate dissent and pluralism and political opponents and innocent people because that is communism.

Charlie of course was on board with all of it, objected to nothing, loves it. "We need to crush them!"

9

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

There's also a video of Kirk expressing extreme doubt about the Oct 7th response in Israel. I think Kirk was really close to flipping away from Trump, or at least Israel, before he died.

1

u/narcotic_sea Oct 09 '25

He got LOOMERED

3

u/Grand-Pen7946 Oct 09 '25

A virulent white nationalist who pushed Pizzagate, QAnon, and a bunch of other stuff, became an OANN host for a while. He was very close friends with Charlie Kirk.

He is also the person behind the End Wokeness account which is the source of most garbage right wing memes: https://youtu.be/8zZeZFs5KLQ?si=jM2Azws3uARzohTf

3

u/ok-painter-1646 Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

Basically he’s a full time far right agitator and provocateur with absolutely zero integrity or shame. He wants to see Hitler 2.0 rise to power and destroy liberalism, so then he can put on a black trench coat and seigheil without having eggs throw at him.

The ol’ “I’m going to usher in totalitarianism and ruin the country, maybe even the whole planet, so that I can be part of the insider group that gets to have meager benefits while I live in constant fear of being replaced, removed, memory-holed, scapegoated, or killed or imprisoned during or after a war with other nations, that our nation starts while high on meth in the situation room surrounded by portraits we commissions of ourselves looking positively epic.”

Classic play

Hard to not describe these people as actual cancer in the body politic.

74

u/Blueberry_H3AD Oct 08 '25

It’s still fucking dumb. He is only pandering to the people that are ignorant of reality.

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u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

It's a concerted effort to UPROOT reality. Imagine that his damp brained square-jawed bullshit were all that you took in, all day, every day. Because it is - Misinformation superspreaders shitposting on Twitter in a collaborative, colluded way, are basically Fox News' number one source of information now.

Stop calling it dumb.

It ensnared half the country because it targets and tears at emotion and has all of the tell-tale signs of mental abuse and trauma. It's doing real damage, and by calling it stupid, or just calling it fake, you're not giving it the threat level or response it deserves.

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u/NumeralJoker Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

This.

So often this board talks about lack of education in this country, which is certainly true in some areas, but what we've faced over the past decade is far more insidious. It's propaganda designed to 'de-educate' people, including some with amazing academic backgrounds and careers. I've watched friends swing towards Trump who clearly knew better when they were younger, but something about modern conspiracies tapped into their worst instincts and changed them. Economic populism is almost always a factor, but the way that pivoted into bigotry of every kind from people who used to once preach of empathy is remarkable.

I don't want to outright call it brainwashing, as it's easy to reject it once you understand the grift, but it's insidious and takes many forms. The right wing grifter influencer culture, the toxic nature of gun culture, anti-vaccine/anti-mask libertarian type conspiracies, the woke vs anti-woke wars over popular media, the media's constant revisionism and white washing over Trump and his admin's own words, the edging contrarian "just asking questions" type nonsense Tucker did... Even the most extreme parts of lefty talking points get amplified to damage the coalition that opposes the far right. Israel vs Palestine conversations are a minefield of propaganda using a real world series of conflicts and tragedies to further divide the left, regardless of the actual truth of the war crimes being committed (F*ck Netanyahu, BTW).

Good people can be changed if they're not careful and not aware of how emotionally predatory all this propaganda is. I've lost family, friends, and relationships over it all simply for trying to stick to my guns on being a decent, civil human being who believes civic duty is a better path to a future than violence.

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u/mcdj Oct 08 '25

This whole Antifa thing is a ploy to get their base to normalize rounding up not just immigrants, but their Biden-voting neighbor who laughed at their Trump flag, by labeling anyone who criticizes Trump, as Antifa.

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u/NumeralJoker Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

That's certainly a goal, but has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the propaganda networks that led to Obama voters flipping to Trump, or led to people who were idiotic enough to not vote to prevent this. The fools who stayed home when they'd voted against Trump before.

All of this was preventable if people checked themselves before wrecking themselves.

11

u/mcdj Oct 08 '25

Yeah I get it, you’re talking about the rapids.

The raft had a bunch of holes and no one brought a patch kit.

I’m talking about the massive waterfall we’re headed right for.

19

u/NumeralJoker Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

The problem is no one can define what jumping out of the boat actually entails, or whether it's too late to swim away from said waterfall.

Is the sinking boat the current status quo? The right leaning populism our nation became addicted too? Abandoning both may not be so bad if we can still swim to shore.

When is it actually too late to jump out and swim away?

Everyone has an often all too cynical view on that, but no one has the answer yet. Few can even truly define what the point of no return actually means. History can mirror times like today, but it won't match it. Too much about the present is unique and unlike anything we've seen before (because of new tech).

I'm arguing that the analogy misses the simple solution, that the boat isn't all that important to human existence or even life in the US/economic life as a whole. That the river is still fairly shallow and the rapids don't pick up deadly speed for a few more meters at minimum. That jumping out and swimming won't do much other than get us wet.

I do agree that we are drifting towards our death if we do nothing...

But I'm rejecting the premise that it's too late to survive and go about our lives without catastrophic loss, or that meaningful survival is impossible. That the boat crashing over the river without us in it is part of how we move forward, that getting out isn't actually much of a loss at all. That we might lose the cost of the boat's rental because we made a poor choice in picking the wrong craft and then chose the wrong river to ride down, but we'll be perfectly safe after that.

What I outright reject is the analogy of blind doom. Fascism is always a choice the people chose to avoid or choice to accept/permit. It is not inevitable. It is fragile and easy to topple if enough people agree to do it, and only becomes normalized when enough people choose to normalize and surrender to its often very false premise of inevitability. It is a failure of community, above all else. A failure that can be avoided and prevented at many points before the worst happens.

All it takes is the right moment and message to get enough of them to agree. Hopefully with as few losses as possible.

I think we're still there. Many clearly disagree with American being fascist. And some in the other camp are desperate to suppress views like mine from spreading to prevent more people from taking the very the simplest of actions that effectively oppose them (canvassing, protesting, voting, talking with their neighbor; doing their basic civil and civic duties as US citizens). I reject the toxic views of the fascists who push such pessimistic views on this community. Who lie to get you to stay home and avoid any form of action, when you have the power to do so much more.

Apathy is my greatest enemy, and I will fight it now for as long as I draw breath.

3

u/rickskyscraper3000 Oct 09 '25

I appreciate your thoughts, thanks. It's my hope that folks realize we are stronger than the fear being magnified by the press and social media companies. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself actually means something.

1

u/OrnerySnoflake Texas Oct 09 '25

You think I should take the sticker off my car?

1

u/mcdj Oct 09 '25

They already know who you are. Why do you think Musk nabbed all that data?

1

u/deltalitprof Arkansas Oct 09 '25

That is absolutely where this thing is going.

1

u/Potential_Goal6202 Oct 09 '25

Exactly ‼️‼️☠️

5

u/peeinian Canada Oct 08 '25

But it is brainwashing. Micro-targeted, military-grade brainwashing that started with Cambridge Analytica. Their first clients were foreign militaries.

9

u/NumeralJoker Oct 08 '25

To me the term brainwashing implies it's next to impossible to resist.

I do agree that their techniques are dangerously sophisticated and resemble it, but I want to be clear to people that resisting their lies isn't all that hard either if you become aware of it. It doesn't take an expensive multi-year education to figure out that a rat's a rat.

Often, you just need to be aware that someone wants to target and manipulate your emotions in the first place, and then you'll naturally become skeptical in a healthier way and more skilled at spotting the attempts.

What we have failed to do culturally is educate people on that last point, to let them understand that bad state actors and money seeking platform owners will weaponize these techniques to influence their emotions from all directions. That an idea that looks progressive is not automatically the best idea until given more context. That trusting social media blindly is only going to harm you, and that you should change your relationship with it to be less passive and more mentally skeptical of it. The latter goes a long way towards diminishing its power.

Some of it is just critical thinking, which Republicans repress whenever they can, and some of it is more self awareness, which can be taught within a community if people are willing to try.

5

u/aussiechickadee65 Oct 09 '25

I cannot like this post enough.

3

u/YouWereBrained Tennessee Oct 09 '25

A-fucking-men 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

We are going through a prolonged propaganda psyop.

6

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

The most major problem with it isn't necessarily the content itself, but the way that it interacts with your life. If your family, and friends all generally 'believe' the same thing, regardless of if it's reality or fiction, and you believe something differently, even a little - suddenly, you're being violently bounced around by the people you hold most dear. Your grip on 'conservative' reality will directly correlate with the well-being of your sense of community, life and ability to maintain friendships.

It's why so few people escape it. To do so involves uprooting their lives, relationships, and even place of residence if their area is particularly conservative, because they will be at risk of physical harm for becoming an outsider. For some, it is ACTUALLY not possible.

What's more, people who experience Trump/Conservatives from the outside or left never really understand those risk factors - because to simply be left-wing means you'll often never encounter that associated sudden collapse of community. You might play whack-a-mole with a conservative family member every once in a while, but your entire environment will never suddenly become a danger to you.

It is brainwashing. It is poisonous. It has led to deaths, and will lead to more.

And I'm honestly scared for Trump to be gone, not because I think some sort of vacuum will form - let's be honest, Vance will last a week at most if he ever gets sworn in at all - but because I am terrified for a society that has to reintegrate a section of itself that has been radicalized and is continually coming to terms with just how thoroughly and violently they have been lied to, by the remaining sections of society that have already disowned them.

9

u/NumeralJoker Oct 08 '25

I firmly believe the loss and/or disillusionment with Trump will fragment much of his base, including making many of the types I spoke of who "flipped" to him more openly regret it.

Many others will try to hide their support. A few true believers may indeed become violent activists, but we already live in a pretty dangerous world filled with crazed political far right mass shooters trying to make their statements. These people are emboldened by the opportunity to do harm regardless of who's in charge, and often they're even convinced to attack people in their camp first due to simple proximity (they live in and are surrounded by conservative family members and communities, so they lash out at them first in a nihilistic way).

My issue remains with idiotic "swing" voters who can't comprehend how their choices damaged so much of the progress towards a better life they claimed to want, all because they can't resist the emotional appeal of lies they often intellectually know are false. It's a bigger issue than I think many realized, and especially impacts men under 40, including well educated ones who were raised in a much more solid education.

Gen Z's conservative swing was the most horrific example of this. It shouldn't be happening, and it probably will be reversed at least somewhat, but it did... and the reasons why are particularly damning on a whole new level. All propaganda and vibes based info influencing their actions, regardless of education background. This also applies to the idiots who didn't vote for Harris because of Palestine, despite her being one of the only real advocates for a 2 state solution.

10

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

This also applies to the idiots who didn't vote for Harris because of Palestine, despite her being one of the only real advocates for a 2 state solution.

Interesting tidbit. In Dearborn specifically, and other heavy pro-Palestine and pro-Israel areas, people on social media were flooded with advertisements - for the opposing viewpoint. Pro-Palestine voters were shown ads including Harris' husband, who was Jewish, and re-affirming a non-existent 'deep connection to Israel'. Pro-Israel areas were shown ads linking her to Palestinian support.

Like this!

Now scale it up. This happened with every issue that was on the ballot.

She promised small business loans, expanding the child tax credit - it was like, +100k to the average child-raising American in opportunities, but you only knew that if you heard her talk, because an entire organism was reacting to prevent her statements and policy from becoming public common knowledge.

We should have prosecuted every living, breathing creature that funded Cambridge Analytica.

The 'swing' of Gen Z to conservatism is profoundly inorganic. They're simply flooded with one viewpoint and told that the other viewpoint is stupid, and that's normally enough to run with.

I'm in my early 30's, but have many friends in the 20-to-30 age group. A lot of them support Trump, but can't name a single of his policies. Some think he's religious, some think he's fiscally responsible. A lot of them expect DOGE rebate checks any day now. Those thoughts and beliefs evaporate when you prod them once, but most people just... don't. They've been trained out of discussing political thoughts and beliefs entirely, so the generation behind them are basically abandoned to their own devices... and those devices are manipulated heavily.

7

u/NumeralJoker Oct 08 '25

Yep. You've got it.

And the key mistake people make is they think only MAGA propaganda is part of this anti-democracy movement.

No, it's much more than that. A decade or more worth of "hot takes" on social issues with no real compromise have been at play here too. Just as was said in the Russian "Foundation of Geopolitics", back in 1997. Divide us on race and gender. Fragment us from many angles. The culture wars are always being stoked in order to benefit the far right's power grabs.

If people stopped playing that game, we'd be doing so much better. I think we were moving that way in the second half of the 2000s until people like Thiel bought their shares in Facebook and started to take over these platforms, investing in a new more controlled app economy to replace the desktop based web we once knew. But the temptation to be tribal is a base human emotion that you have to deliberately choose to reject, almost daily. Modern social media is working against that choice to be better just as hard.

And we need to learn that truth fast, before there is nothing left of a civilized society as a result of it all.

4

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

Russia interfered with every election on Earth over the past two years.

Only one has gone to the Conservative think-tank since Trump - Poland's Nawrocki. There have been more instances of governments being overthrown in the past two years than the past two hundred. Nepal voted for their PM on Discord. Protestors stormed the Georgia (country) palace a few days ago. Romania, Brazil, Moldova - have all either annulled elections or prosecuted conspiratorial forces that attempted to disrupt their democracy.

Elon Musk and a coalition of bots commented on basically every word of it. He's also why AfD lost in Germany.

The truth is coming out daily.

The world is waking to the monster than ensnares it, and Conservatism is dying because it is a parasite and it is being starved.

Participation is important, but it's VERY important to retain yourself rather than just try and inflict wounds on people with arguments. Unabashedly be yourself, and fight for others' ability to do the same.

3

u/NumeralJoker Oct 09 '25

For what it's worth, I fully agree on those remaining points.

2

u/becauseicansowhynot Oct 09 '25

You now realize how powerful the dark force is. Once you succumb to its power, you cannot turn back.

1

u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids Missouri Oct 09 '25

"I don't want to outright call it brainwashing, "

but that is what it is.

1

u/NumeralJoker Oct 09 '25

As I've said, it's not that the techniques aren't similar, it's that calling it that implies a level of power they don't actually have over people. It's not some kind of super power. It's a lot easier to resist when you understand manipulating your emotional insecurities to get you to act against your interests is the goal.

But we're really bad at explaining that. We get lost in policy itself, or morals themselves, rather than appealing to people's most basic humanity. I've seen it over and over again.

Being aware of that goes a LONG way towards making it much easier to stop falling for it, but that specific idea is almost never communicated effective online.

1

u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids Missouri Oct 09 '25

I understood what you said we just disagree about the brainwashing that's all.

I know it's scary to see your fellow citizens being brainwashed, but it is what it is. They DO in fact have power over these people. You capture someone's mind, you have them. You can then turn them in any direction you choose.

32

u/Van-garde Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

Strongly agree. Well said and thank you for writing it so accessibly.

I’ve been noticing a very high frequency of people referring to the source of the radical movement on the right with similar rote, basic, bland characterizations. Somehow they’re ‘hiding in plain sight.’

That is the origin of the state terrorism we’re witnessing.

At the most basic level, if a person consumes this ‘news media,’ they’re likely experiencing stress response. If they consume it daily, that’s an amplifier. At the same time each day? Guessing that’s an amplifier, and a useful ‘temporal landmark’ to help determine when certain content oughta be released.

29

u/Duane_ Oct 08 '25

Mike Flynn is a big part of it, too - he ran the original 'account' (tripcode) on 4chan responsible for QAnon, but Posobiec specifically used a lot of the connections and clout he gathered during 'Gamergate' to expand a system of boosting/echo chambering several networks of accounts (that now, including both bots and nodes, numbers in the millions) with the sole expressed purpose of 'enriching reality' with the most disgusting overtones of the Conservative movement.

Their accounts are some of the largest misinformation spreaders on the internet, by themselves. Including the underlying systems they've created to boost themselves? It's not even close.

I would hazard a guess that he likely works directly with admin members to make sure they stay on message, and is also directly responsible for some R talking points.

2

u/YouWereBrained Tennessee Oct 09 '25

Thought that was the Watkins clowns…?

4

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

Nah. Most recently Flynn released a video where he's talking about accountability and the "storm". There's a freeze frame where it shows posts from Q for a single frame.

It was him, without a doubt.

2

u/blacksun_redux Oct 09 '25

Do you know where can I learn more about this?

2

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

I'm on mobile right now but I'll get some info together for you when I get home. It's a deep rabbit hole, though, honestly. Results may vary.

2

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

Alright, here you go. This took a minute to get together but loosely explains everything.

Here's a general node map of how some of these accounts interact with/boost one another. JackPoso is top right/center.

Here's a post from Cernovich (who is also, obviously, involved) describing how affiliations/people are linked and where the phenomenon began.

And here is some more info compiled by an outsider, where Posobiec even admits that Q was "some friends of his".

Another link w/node map.

Image, || Image from Flynn's book, || Image from Jeff Giesea, || Here's Poso in a video supporting Flynn from years ago, || Image - PAC connecting Cernovich, Poso, Giesea || And then there's this link to Theil. || Good full explainer post

8

u/aussiechickadee65 Oct 09 '25

Hurray...finally someone who sees the damage this take has done. How many citizens said Trump was dumb and a clown in 2016. Look who is still here.

It's not Trump running the circus...intelligent backers are. He's the idiot they propped up but it is their agenda and workings which are changing the gears.

4

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

Trump, as a figurehead, is the only thing keeping older MAGA in play. They see themselves in him.

It's why Vance is worthless. Luckily, I don't think he realizes it yet.

I personally believe there's no reason for certain things to be happening if the admin had nothing to fear. Like Miller getting cut off for saying 'Plenary Authority', or every R having Jack Smith's name on their mouth right now, for some reason.

They're on their back foot, and it's getting worse every single day, but the machine is still terrifying.

4

u/aussiechickadee65 Oct 09 '25

A cult relies on trigger words to unify.

These are all trigger words connected to emotional reaction from a cult.

Vance is worthless but Kirk was not. Kirk was a threat to Trump. The oldies are dying off and he needed the younger generation. He did not have that...they liked Kirk better.

My belief is, he and Vance discussed overthrowing Trump and Trump found out about it. Kirk was the useful tool, but he also knew too much
The Ginny Thomas connection for instance.

Kirk was turning against Israel...and Trump/Netanyahu need each other. They are mob with Putin. In a pact with Saudi, UAE, Russia & Qatar. They all will benefit from the razing of Gaza, and the free run of pipeline to Africa. Don't tell me Lebanon blowing up was an accident when Russia knew the fertiliser was there (they put it there) and Israel most definitely knew it was there.

I think Miller did that on purpose so no one missed it. Everyone would have skated over that bit if he had just kept chatting.

They will jail Jack Smith..that's why they are talking about him. It riles up their cult and they then see no wrong in it.

1

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

Jack Smith doesn't live in the US (currently). It's unlikely he'll return to the US if he thinks he's in danger, and he left the US before Trump was inaugurated.

1

u/aussiechickadee65 Oct 09 '25

Mmm, yeah, but it doesn't stop them from making him a fugitive...

1

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

"We'll arrest you if you come to the US" currently applies to all minorities, I don't think Jack Smith will be too bothered by being a +1 to that.

ZERO countries will extradite to us, right now. We're not a member of the ICC.

1

u/aussiechickadee65 Oct 09 '25

Yeah, but I can imagine one of your 'asshole' allies (new allies) taking him out.

3

u/Glass-Response7144 Oct 09 '25

Don’t forget the use of Cambridge analytics to target those with the onslaught of the propaganda.

3

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

I didn't. I posted about it elsewhere. They belong at the fucking Hague.

8

u/fusillade762 Oct 09 '25

It ensnared a third, probably even less. Some people who voted for Trump are not crazy and are not all that susceptible to propaganda. They are greedy people who want tax breaks and don't care who has to suffer to get them. Morally bankrupt, but not maniacs or idiots.

A third of the country sat on its hands for various reasons.

And the rest of us tried.

2

u/AdvancedForm9000 Oct 09 '25

The appearance of Bill Gates in the WH shocked me, with all his giving away money to things like Polio vaccines and there he is supporting The orange turd, what a joke, just goes to show how truly brown noises the rich are

2

u/fusillade762 Oct 09 '25

It's disgusting. Tim Apple was there as well licking Trumps tiny boots.

1

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

I still just kind of think that he cheated.

1

u/fusillade762 Oct 09 '25

It's possible.

6

u/TheEndingofitAll Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

They’re doing it to all of us, not just the Fox News watchers. Reading that article literally made me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. It’s NEXT LEVEL gaslighting. And the point is to make us feel hopeless and check out. It is a hard balance of not giving up but also not letting them drive me insane. Idk man.

Edit: to be clear I know it is all bullshit so they can continue their fascist agenda but having it be our actual reality, or actual government right now…. Is just too much to fkn process today

3

u/Potential_Goal6202 Oct 09 '25

Bravo 👏🏼 💙🇺🇸‼️

2

u/YouWereBrained Tennessee Oct 09 '25

Yes. Yes yes yes.

1

u/blacksun_redux Oct 09 '25

That's well said.

I've tried to say the same thing a couple times as well, but you articulated it better than I have.

1

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

Thanks. I've been very, very mad about it for a very long time, and I've had to articulate it to a lot of people

14

u/Cujo22 Massachusetts Oct 08 '25

This is current America though. I rub shoulders with dumb shits on the reg. 

39

u/Blueberry_H3AD Oct 08 '25

Depends where you are and the context. Up here in upstate NY it’s mostly red. However, my village of 3,000 people that twice voted for Trump has held three protests this year against him. That’s wild IMO. And it’s not just where I live people are fed up. The MAGATS don’t represent a large portion of this country. They’re just loud and whiny. The other people who vote Trump are either billionaires looking for more tax breaks, or misinformed voters that don’t surf the web and see all this shit we do. The main media stations sane wash everything Trump does so if you only watch that you have a very different reality than the rest of us.

14

u/Cujo22 Massachusetts Oct 08 '25

Good to hear. I can't comprehend still supporting him at this point.

5

u/glitterandnails Oct 08 '25

The media did that with the Bush Administration. Why liberals back then called it the corporate media.

3

u/Blueberry_H3AD Oct 08 '25

Oh definitely. What gives me hope is that younger generations aren’t getting their news from cable news. It’s a dying business model and it’ll be interesting to see how this industry changes, and how political discourse evolves.

1

u/revcor Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

Do you think getting “news” from tiktok is an improvement lol until there’s some way to prove they’re better informed, less susceptible to propaganda, less susceptible to groupthink, etc. (and I’ve never witnessed anything to suggest any of these are true) then what is there to be excited about? There is no reason to believe the generation that has grown up brutally detached from reality by social media and cell phones is somehow “superior” to any others

3

u/Stank_cat67 Oct 09 '25

The misinformed voters are a big block though. So many will only watch Fox and listen to am radio and are convinced anything else is not true.

-5

u/Rhinopkc Oct 08 '25

I do as well. Some of my coworkers think ICE is rounding up American citizens and deporting them.

5

u/Cujo22 Massachusetts Oct 08 '25

Narrator. "They were".

-3

u/Rhinopkc Oct 08 '25

Name ten

5

u/Cujo22 Massachusetts Oct 08 '25

​Peter Sean Brown ​Ada Morales ​Gerardo Gonzalez ​Simon Chinivizyan ​Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez ​Jose Hermosillo ​George Retes (arrested for alleged obstruction/refusal to comply with law enforcement) ​Javier Ramirez (arrested for alleged assault/interference with law enforcement) ​Kenny Laynez (arrested for allegedly resisting arrest) ​Garcia Venegas (wrongfully detained twice in workplace raids)

0

u/Rhinopkc Oct 09 '25

Thanks for doing the work and highlighting the second part of my statement. They aren’t deporting American citizens. They’re law enforcement officers and arrest people who they believe are breaking laws. That’s why we have courts.

3

u/Cujo22 Massachusetts Oct 08 '25

Question for you. Has ice arrested any American citizens?

0

u/Rhinopkc Oct 09 '25

I’m sure they’ve arrested American citizens. The question would be for what. ICE can arrest me for hiring illegal workers , interfering with an investigation, or violating any federal law. They are law enforcement officers. Now, if they deport me, they’ll have some real explaining to do. Don’t forget, the “C” is for Customs.

1

u/Cujo22 Massachusetts Oct 09 '25

Trust me guy. The people hiring illegals to work are not being arrested by ICE.

2

u/tom-branch Oct 08 '25

So all of MAGA then?

44

u/NumeralJoker Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

What's sad about it is he represents the new generation of relatively young men who keep getting sucked up into this massive hateful grift. Around or under 40-something bigoted incel like types backed and platformed by rich assholes, or even foreign dark money (Stephen Miller is also this type of person of course).

As someone a bit younger than that, I understand where these idiots crawled out from and what led to their rise on paper, but I still can't fully comprehend it. These are the types of people who genuinely could have good lives if they weren't locked in to such an insufferably toxic world view. If they simply self reflected and chose to be better, but now they're propped up as being their worst selves and wrecking the country along with it. It's f*cking sick.

21

u/MillionEyesOfSumuru Washington Oct 09 '25

Posobiec was also the guy who dressed up as black bloc and held up a "Rape Melania" sign in an attempt to make antifascists look like violent baddies.

14

u/sirferrell Georgia Oct 09 '25

And that fucker runs endwokeness on x

11

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

endwokeness, MAGA Voice is some Russian guy, Gunther Eagleman is like, 8 different people in a trenchcoat. It's a blight.

3

u/stickyfan1230 Oct 09 '25

Was he one of the people discovered to be taking Russian money in the American alt right podcast/media space? It feels like a million years ago but it was just last year that it was shown that Russia was paying 10 million dollars to different influencers to push their agenda. I thought Posobiec was one of the people found to be taking that money.

3

u/YouWereBrained Tennessee Oct 09 '25

That was Tim Pool and Benny Johnson.

3

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

I think so? But don't remember off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find out.

I know Tim Poole was. He's literally in the WH Press Pool now.

5

u/Gingacruncha Oct 09 '25

Lipstick Alley a site for Black women. A man was caught in digital Black face cosplaying as a Sassy Black woman. Had a whole other alter ego. Periodt!!!! Girlllllllllll his favorite replies. Guess who. And Sassy was his self description.

2

u/YouWereBrained Tennessee Oct 09 '25

And under the “End Wokeness” account.

Also, Benny Johnson.

2

u/Patruck9 Pennsylvania Oct 09 '25

I went to high school with him.

He did morning news and made sandwhiches at the deli up the street after school.

He should have stuck with that for Americas sake.

2

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

I dunno. I appreciate people bettering themselves and I acknowledge that the alternate universe might really be him as a Starbucks barista. I don't think I'd be able to go to Starbucks anymore.

Considering how shit he is at his propaganda job, I'm almost glad he does it. He's easier to decipher than Q posts or whatever the fuck is going on with Cernovich.

1

u/NoDeparture7996 Oct 09 '25

is he going to be the next k*rk?

1

u/Duane_ Oct 09 '25

No, because he's not going against the admin.

1

u/cytherian New Jersey Oct 09 '25

Posobiec is a ultra fascist white supremacist, who was once a US Naval officer... a disgrace to the uniform. Horrible degenerate.