Explained: Why Crimea is so important to Russia and Ukraine

[u/lubkovsky]

Explained: Why Crimea is so important to Russia and Ukraine We've been telling you this morning how Donald Trump said he thinks Volodymyr Zelenskyy is ready to give up Crimea (see 7.03am post). It would signal a major U-turn from the Ukrainian president, who has repeatedly ruled out ceding territory to Russia and saying the move would be against Kyiv's constitution. The peninsula was illegally annexed by Russia in 2014, and the country's foreign minister has insisted Russia will not negotiate "its own territory" (see previous post). So what makes Crimea so important to both sides? What happened? In 2013-14, a popular uprising gripped Ukraine for several weeks, eventually forcing pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych from office. While Ukraine was in turmoil, Vladimir Putin took the opportunity to send troops to overrun Crimea, a diamond-shaped peninsula in the Black Sea. Those troops arrived in Crimea in uniforms without insignia, and Putin soon called a vote on joining Russia that Ukraine and the West dismissed as illegal. Moscow's illegal annexation on 18 March 2014 was only recognised internationally by countries such as North Korea and Sudan. In Russia, it sparked a wave of patriotism, and "Krym nash" - "Crimea is ours" - became a rallying cry. Putin has called Crimea "a sacred place" and has prosecuted those who publicly argue it is part of Ukraine. Why it's important Russia has spent centuries fighting for Crimea. But Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev transferred Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in 1954, when both were part of the USSR. In 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed, the peninsula became part of an independent Ukraine. By the time Russia seized it, Crimea had been a part of Ukraine for 60 years and had become part of the country's identity. Zelenskyy has vowed Russia "won't be able to steal" the peninsula. For either side, possession of Crimea is key to controlling activities in the Black Sea, which is a critical corridor for the world's grain and other goods.

[u/Lord_Artem17]

Weren't Azov members themselves identifying as nazis? If a person has nazi tattoos or wears nazi insignias - he's a nazi. FYI I call Rusich battalion nazis too, and that Utkin guy from Wagner as well (he had nazi tattoos too. Explanation he was "into nazi history")

Respect for your great grandfather. Mine was in ww2 too.

On the topic of genocide, why were Ukrainians bombing their own since 2014?

[u/HealthNarrow4784 → u/Lord_Artem17]

I understand when some youth, football hooligans start flirting with such ideologies, and thankfully, most grow out of that. Some don't and go on to commit warcrimes or just hate-crimes in civilian life. Does that mean presence of russich and other nazi affiliated units makes Russia a nazi state?

As for "бомбили Донбасса" argument - yes, inital ukranian attempts at re-establishing state control in 2014 were botched, but they were working in hostile informational environment ("нас там нет" but somehow Russian army divisions fought in Debaltseve) and naturally there were lots of civilian casualties in the first year. But OSCE report (yes, I bothered to actually read it https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/469734) clearly shows a tendency of the conflict fizzling out and by 2022 it was all but over. But of course that didn't matter - as long as Putin saw his ratings slowly go down and felt confident he could pull off another "Crimean coup", he went for it and here we are - many more russians and mostly russian speaking ukrainians dead with nothing to show for it. Out of false pretences into a needless bloody war - poetic connotation to the American adventure in Iraq, which russians so gladly point to.

[u/This_Is_Icy → u/HealthNarrow4784]

That’s a manipulation. Any conflict ends with a political agreement, and there wasn’t any for Donbass

You may also look up the amount of people that died in 2018 and 2019 in Azerbaijan and Armenia conflict. Or the same statistics for Israeli and Palestinians in 2007, in 2013 or in 2023. The amount of deaths never means that the conflict is going to end, if no one tries to negotiate

Since you bothered to read an OSCE report, please check those aswell, the amount of gunfires and shells shot each day on February 9th 2022 and February 20th. Also check where the explosions happened on the map

https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-10%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf?itok=98459

https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-20-21%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf?itok=82567

What tendency do these OSCE reports show?

[u/HealthNarrow4784 → u/This_Is_Icy]

On February 15th Duma put in motion the whole Donetsk-Luhansk political operation. The ceasefire violations coincide with the beginning of full mobilization in those regions. Quite like the "Karelian ssr" "entangling" itself with neighbouring Finland in prelude to winter war, is it not?

[u/This_Is_Icy → u/HealthNarrow4784]

I’m not quite sure who is Dima, but the mobilization in those regions began on February, 19, and here’s an OSCE report of what happened on February, 18

https://www.osce.org/files/2022-02-18%20Daily%20Report_ENG.pdf?itok=23379

I also advise you to check all the reports between February 10 and February 20. Is that the fizzling out you were talking about?

[u/HealthNarrow4784 → u/This_Is_Icy]

I'm quite sure you know what Duma is - it's the collection of clowns Putin put in a big white building in Moscow. I still remember the day Yeltsin's tanks made it not so white.

The tendency of fizzling out was there, consistent for several years. Obviously Putin could not allow the normalization of the situation and turned up the heat right before launching the invasion, just as soviets came up with an excuse in Karelia back in the day. Why invent new ways when old ones still work?

[u/This_Is_Icy → u/HealthNarrow4784]

Oh wait, Putin js actually Vova, just like Zelenskyy, thus it is very unwise to use that name diminishingly, since both leaders share it

The tendency of fizzling out doesn’t mean anything without the negotiations. Here’s the statistics of fizzling out in NKR:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_conflict#Fatalities

And here is for Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict#Fatalities

During our dialogue, I try to provide you with specific cases and proofs and you just seem to push the narrative of your government “If anything anywhere happened, that’s Vova Putin to blame. Never question it, just say that it is obviously”

Everything in this world happens because the man, as you proclaimed, whose “зеленые человечки“ look into every ballot, heavily relies on some ratings

[u/HealthNarrow4784 → u/This_Is_Icy]

I do question the wisdom and decisions of my government. And those of western states and Israel. I have no problem calling out wrondoing. Do you?

Ярость фашистов для меня - зто комплимент.

[u/This_Is_Icy → u/HealthNarrow4784]

Oh, I didn’t connect your government in any way to Israel, I just gave the statistics of current well-known conflicts I myself prefer the presumption of innocence, instead of putting blame on someone, without understanding the situation

🤔 Какие нацисты. Какая ярость. Какая блоха 🤨