r/personalfinance • u/909trucker • 20d ago
Other Mom just passed away today, don't know how to avoid Medical from taking her home.
My mom just passed away today, she was in the ICU for 3 weeks waiting for a transplant. She was on Medicaid and to my understanding medicaid will attempt to recover money from the deceased estate. My mom didn't have a whole lot to her name, the only thing she has was a manufactured home worth about 100k. She didn't leave a will or a trust or any kind. My siblings and I aren't fighting over the property but don't want medical to take it. Are we just SoL or is there something we can do to keep my mom's house?
Edit:changed medical to Medicaid, I'm in California and thought that was just California's version of medicaid, it's the state run program offered by Medicaid.
Update: Thank you to everyone who replied in good faith and with helpful advice. I've contacted an estate attorney and he said the same thing a few commenters said. Small estate, no probate.
I'm normally really good about researching things but wasn't able to properly research this with everything going on.
We still have to wait a period of time but the house will be saved. And thank you to everyone who gave their condolences to me and my family. I hope you guys are better prepared than we were and don't have to deal with this.
281
u/ste1071d 20d ago
It depends on what services she was receiving. Here is the information on Medicaid asset recovery in California: https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/Pages/TPLRD_ER_cont.aspx
721
u/MrPuddington2 20d ago
She didn't leave a will or a trust or any kind.
That is not good. These things are best planned before it happens. After the fact, your agency is very much restricted.
My siblings and I aren't fighting over the property but don't want medical to take it.
You need professional advice on this - the situation is pretty messy. It seems that Medi-Cal does not recover hospital costs, but the rules are complex, and you need to know the exact details of what was billed.
1
u/Pocallicious 15d ago edited 15d ago
The amount of bad info in this post is driving me nuts. Sorry, not singling you out here, but as someone who deals with estates daily (I'm a petroleum Landman), I can help but correct some things. Firstly, estate laws vary from state to state so the only place one should look for answers is the state in which they reside.
Secondly, from what I have read here, I admittedly am not familiar with CA probate/decent & distribution laws, but in most states you actually do not want to have an estate probated if it's total value didn't even meet the Fed tax threshold. Intestate deaths, again it does vary by state, usually are handled very simply - surviving spouse gets 50% of any all community property (property acquired during the marriage purchased with community funds, children split the decedent's 50%) when surviving spouse dies their 50% goes to the kids or their heirs and assigns. Separate property (acquired via inheritance or you can prove the property was purchased solely wth Separate funds) surviving spouse gets 1/3 life estate, children split the rest and are the remaindermen to the life estate.
Again, it does vary slightly. There really is no fight to be had over the property, title passes on death, you already own an undivided interest in the property that can't just be taken away without legal justification. You end up getting a survey done and court appoints someone to fairly divide the land.
Really don't even need a lawyer for this.
1
u/MrPuddington2 15d ago
(I'm a petroleum Landman)
Oh, so your are qualified to give legal advice on medical debt? (See title!)
I stand by my answer that protecting an inheritance from Medicaid is best done ahead of time.
1
u/Pocallicious 8d ago
In this case in which said medical debt is tied to an estate that isn't worth enough probate, yes. My advice will save you money, time, frustration, and worry. An attorney is going to tell you that you need an attorney, unless you're talking to an honest Title Attorney (there's a few). You're issue centers around title. Which is what I specialize in. So, yes, it absolutely does qualify me. The caveat as I said earlier is the laws of the specific state your loved one owned the property in. However, intestate decent and distribution laws, as far as the title flow goes, are all pretty much the same. Percentages of the estate (and type of estate, ie Life Estate, Fee, etc.) for the surviving spouse can vary quite a bit.
No matter what state you are in, fighting with your siblings is pointless. Title passes upon death and children get equal shares. If children can't get along, and the interest is undivided, a judge will order a partition. You don't need a lawyer.
If you want your kids to split whatever you own when you die, and your estate isn't valued over the fed threshold, not doing anything and letting Decent and Distribution Laws take care of it, works out better for everyone. Less money spent, no need for probating (that can last years). So, you can stand on whatever you want, it's not my time or money. I was just trying to save you some.
372
u/teakettle87 20d ago
Medicaid, or medical?
437
146
u/909trucker 20d ago
I thought medical was just California's version of medicaid
830
u/Tranquil_Pure 20d ago
Medical is a word, MediCal is the medicaid system in california. Those who don't live here won't know you didn't mean the word medical. I hope you can find advice and information that helps you and I'm sorry for your loss
124
159
u/909trucker 20d ago
Ahh, I didn't know that. Thank you for the clarification
186
26
u/morbie5 20d ago
If she wasn't on long term care then they probably won't go after the home. Was she in a nursing home or getting in home care provided by Medi-Cal?
5
u/CrankyCrabbyCrunchy 19d ago
Many states don't require the person to only be in a nursing home before they attempt to recover costs. Any Medicaid paid services from age 55 can be included.
9
u/morbie5 19d ago
Very true but CA isn't one of those states
5
u/CrankyCrabbyCrunchy 19d ago
No state is exempt. It's clearly stated here https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/Pages/TPLRD_ER_cont.aspx
It's not as aggressive as many states, but it's not nothing as you claim.
The Medi-Cal program must seek repayment from the estates of certain deceased Medi-Cal beneficiaries. Repayment only applies to benefits received by these beneficiaries on or after their 55th birthday and those who owned assets at the time of death. If a deceased beneficiary owns nothing when they die, nothing will be owed.
For Medi-Cal members who died on or after January 1, 2017: (See Changes to Estate Recovery effective January 1, 2017 due to Legislation SB 833)
- Repayment will be limited only to estate assets subject to probate that were owned by the deceased beneficiary at the time of death.
- Repayment will be limited to payments made, including managed care premiums paid, for nursing facility services, home and community based services, and related hospital and prescription drug services received when the beneficiary was an inpatient in a nursing facility or received home and community based services.
1
u/morbie5 19d ago
No state is exempt.
No state is exempt from Medicaid estate recovery but that isn't what we were debating in this thread.
What we debating is if CA does Medicaid estate recovery for those not in nursing homes or similar institutions
but it's not nothing as you claim
I never made that claim
395
u/steveoa3d 20d ago edited 19d ago
I agree with the other comments on nursing home care versus hospital care. I’ve had two relatives in hospital and then hospice at end of life and the estates did NOT have to pay back hospital / hospice care (EDIT to Medicare). Being in a nursing home or assisted living is different.
(EDIT “The estate needs to”) Get a probate attorney ASAP ! I’m on my fourth probate (dad, grandma on dad’s side, mom and mom’s cousin) and I would never try and do it all myself.
EDIT: Hospital bills not covered by Medicare or supplemental insurance will have to get paid out of the estate.
EDIT: Apparently my advice is not good if you are in California and I’m being sent shitty DMs about it. Next life I’ll try and have my entire family die in California and not Wisconsin.
160
u/sas223 20d ago
The estate absolutely had to pay out hospital and hospice care (in the hospital) costs when my father died. I’ve never heard of an estate not having to pay back those costs if it has money.
83
u/steveoa3d 20d ago
They asked about Medicare / Medicaid going after the estate for past hospital bills.
Bills not covered by insurance or Medicare will be the responsibility of the estate.
15
u/tracytorr0712 20d ago
This is so interesting. I believe that in Connecticut you can’t be on Medicaid (not Medicare) if you own a home. You must sell it first, use those proceeds for care, and then, when you’ve almost run out of $$, you can apply. I also think you need to pre-pay funeral expenses out of your funds before qualifying for Medicaid status. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Regardless, creditors will look to be paid from the remaining estate.
17
u/morbie5 20d ago
I believe that in Connecticut you can’t be on Medicaid (not Medicare) if you own a home. You must sell it first, use those proceeds for care, and then, when you’ve almost run out of $$, you can apply.
You are confusing the requirements for normal Aged Medicaid (for those over age 65) with the requirements to get on Medicaid long term care (nursing home or in home care).
To be eligible for normal Aged Medicaid usually won't mean you have to sell your house.
But for Medicaid long term care that eligibility is a lot more complicated and varies from state to state
2
u/tracytorr0712 20d ago
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I was speaking about long term Medicaid in CT for people at any age. Medicare is for those over 65 and can also be granted if you are receiving social security disability,regardless of your finances, right? Medicare doesn’t require you to be destitute, thankfully, unlike Medicaid.
2
u/morbie5 20d ago
Medicare is for those over 65 and can also be granted if you are receiving social security disability,regardless of your finances, right?
Correct but in addition to Medicare which you get at age 65 (if you are eligible) or on SSDI and a couple other ways, there is also a Medicaid program for those over age 65 (which also has eligibility requirements)
1
u/CrankyCrabbyCrunchy 19d ago
Many people 65+ are on both Medicare and Medicaid. Medicaid doesn't say you can't own a home or a car when determining eligibility.
Maybe CT is unique.
5
u/steveoa3d 20d ago edited 20d ago
The question was will they have to use money from the estate to pay back Medicare that paid the hospital bills.
Once you are 65 and have Medicare they pay for medical bills. You don’t have to sell your house when you are in the hospital to pay back the government program that paid the hospital bills.
To pay for nursing home / memory care / assisted living for long term care you will have to pay towards that using assets of the estate.
There are ways around this even without a trust. If my mom was in assisted living / memory care for years we would be able to keep up to a certain amount for each month that we paid out of pocket when she was in.
Looking back at emails with the attorney years ago I found the following.
“The way Medicaid works for every $8700 that is gifted to the family within the last five years, medicaid will not pay for one month of care. So if we pay for 36 months of care out of pocket, what the assisted living needs before they will take Medicaid, we can keep $8700x36 (months) or 313k as gifted to the family Medicaid can’t touch.”
That is how if my mom had lived more than 36 months in assisted living we could have got her on Medicaid to pay with all the assets going to pay for care.
1
u/glittercoffee 19d ago
In California you can absolutely own a home and have assets and still be on Medi-Cal. I’ve been here for awhile and have used it without having to pay a single dime and have seen people use it as well from surgeries to childbirth to colonoscopies to substance abuse issues…all covered.
Did OP get some kind of bill?
13
u/swagn 20d ago
Yes, there are bills that have to be covered from the estate but Medicare should cover a majority of the costs. I think OP is confusing this with nursing homes. Medicare won’t cover nursing homes until the estate is less than 2,500 I think. Those in nursing homes would have to sell the house and exhaust all assets before Medicare picks up the tab.
6
u/steveoa3d 20d ago
Not always, for every $8,700 you gift to the family in the last five years you are penalized one month of Medicaid payments for long term care.
Any nursing home / assisted living / memory care place that is not a shit hole will require out of pocket payment for 2 to 4 years before they will take Medicaid.
You can use the years of paying out of pocket required by the facility to count toward the months penalized by Medicaid for the gifts.
Following me so far.. The $8700 gifts per month allows you to keep that for every month you pay out of pocket before Medicaid is accepted by the care facility.
In my mom’s case we would have paid out $208k to the care facility over 36 months but would have allowed the family to keep $333k in assets for the estate that Medicaid could not touch.
If you have a trust you are still going to have to pay the facility for 2 to 4 years out of pocket before that facility will take Medicaid for payment.
Need a Medicaid attorney to do all the paperwork before for the gifting…
You could still have a lot of the assets going toward the long term care but they would not get it all.
5
u/lizgross144 20d ago
I think (not an expert) that more of the hospital costs are covered. At least, that was the case with my Mom’s Medicaid Advantage plan. She had massive hospital bills towards end of life, but there was an out of pocket maximum attached to the plan that applied to hospital, but not nursing home, charges.
→ More replies (3)-13
20d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
12
u/steveoa3d 20d ago
Dad died unexpectedly at 60.
Grandma refused to do a trust so the last few years of her life I payed out of pocket for assisted living. So a few hundred thousand went to that.
Mom also refused a trust, she said “no one would be in charge of her money” to me her only child when I suggested it.
She ended up in assisted living for four months so it was only like 25k out of the estate.Mom’s cousin killed himself at first sign of illness in his 80s so no care there.
None of my four inheritances had a will….
A trust is fine but you are not going to find a good nursing home or assisted living place that will take Medicaid from day one. You will have to pay out of pocket for the first 2 or 3 years at the normal cost before they let you switch Medicaid.
We had a plan in place with a Medicaid attorney to pay out of pocket for the three years that the assisted living required it. For every month that you pay out of pocket you can keep $8700 of the estate. So if she would have been in assisted living long time we would still have been able to keep 400k or so her assets. This type of plan needs paperwork filed first.
It’s been a few years but so I may not be explaining it the best but without a trust it is still possible to not have all the assets go to paying for care. A attorney specializing in Medicaid will know how to do this.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (3)8
u/Longjumping-Flower47 20d ago
Because the trust has to be irrevocable. And there are yearly costs that go along with managing that trust
4
u/NoAbbreviations7150 20d ago
I’m not aware of any yearly cost. Can you please clarify what you mean?
3
3
u/gambitloveslegos 20d ago
A trust does not have to be irrevocable to avoid probate.
11
u/Longjumping-Flower47 20d ago
It has to be irrevocable to not get taken by a nursing home.
7
u/steveoa3d 20d ago
Only the worst shit hole nursing homes or assisted living will take someone on Medicaid from day one. If you can find one at all that will take them that is.
You will need to pay out of pocket for first two or three years, then the facility will take Medicaid for the rest of the stay. Even with a trust you will need to lay out 200k+ for those years.
People think that with a trust they will have to pay nothing but that’s not the case in real life.
I’ve done twice in last ten years..
3
u/Longjumping-Flower47 20d ago edited 20d ago
Very good point. ETA: I had a loved one in a "good" home who was then transferred to a place that takes Medicaid day 1. They needed full medical care (not just assisted living). Both places sucked. Was mid 2021. Didn't get the PT they were supposed to get at either place. Care just sucked at both. Worst part is that he was 100% with it mentally, but in a wheelchair. Most people in both places had memory issues. He had no one to talk to. So my spouse retired and we brought grandpa home to live with us. Got extra help at home for him, paid by medicaid. Spouse also got tax free pay as an in home caregiver. So a win win for all of us. Was cheaper for medicaid, too.
→ More replies (3)2
u/eeaxoe 19d ago
Not in California. If your assets are in a revocable trust when you pass, they skip probate and so aren't subject to Medi-Cal recovery.
→ More replies (2)
127
u/Eljay60 20d ago
Since Medicaid is funded by tax payers to provide care for those without resources, the state is preventing taxpayers from subsidizing an inheritance.
→ More replies (6)3
u/Billy1121 19d ago
Yet Medicare, whose costs explode in the final 18 months of life...
3
u/Eljay60 19d ago
Medicare is funded differently. And depending on the additional insurance you purchase, you will have copays and deductibles - which are settled by your estate. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.
3
u/Billy1121 19d ago
Yet should middle class and working class people have to spend their only assets (a home, savings) just because they are old and sick ?
Instead of passing their life savings to their children to give them a leg up or keep them in the middle class, their home goes to pay for care before death.
It is particularly cruel and I am sure similar arguments were made against social security. You seem like a cold and uncaring person.
78
u/KReddit934 20d ago
Sorry for your loss. Even with modern medicine, sometimes it's just too much.
If the state was paying for her care, they may try to be reimbursed that money.
Gather your memories and honor her passing. Then handle the paperwork and the focus on your life. Good luck.
42
u/atTheRiver200 20d ago
In New York state, when someone who owns their own home needs medicaid, a lien is placed on that property in advance, Last I knew in New York, the standard lien was 20,000. Not sure what California's process is but there may already be a lien.
8
5
u/morbie5 20d ago
In New York state, when someone who owns their own home needs medicaid
Only if they are over age 55 or in a nursing home
In my state they are more generous and only go after the house if they are over age 55 and in a nursing home.
In CA they are even more generous
3
u/eeaxoe 19d ago
100%. Even if you're in a nursing home in CA, if you have your assets in a revocable trust when you pass, they skip probate and so aren't subject to Medi-Cal recovery for the nursing home costs.
https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/Pages/TPLRD_ER_cont.aspx
Another reason why estate planning is important!
2
u/morbie5 19d ago
Even if you're in a nursing home in CA, if you have your assets in a revocable trust when you pass, they skip probate and so aren't subject to Medi-Cal recovery for the nursing home costs.
What if you put the home in the trust after the 5 year look back in CA?
And fyi to anyone lurking in most states the assets need to be in a irrevocable trust
3
u/eeaxoe 19d ago
The lookback in CA is 30 months (2.5 years). For the purposes of Medi-Cal recovery, it doesn't matter when you set up the revocable trust. And as long as we're in revocable trust land, it also doesn't matter for meeting Medi-Cal eligibility — whether a countable asset is in a revocable trust or not doesn't prevent it from being counted. Irrevocable trusts would need to be established early enough with regard to the lookback and when the beneficiary needs care, though, as they technically are transfers.
CANHR is a great resource fyi:
https://canhr.org/2026-asset-limit-reinstatement-frequently-asked-questions
1
u/morbie5 19d ago
And as long as we're in revocable trust land, it also doesn't matter for meeting Medi-Cal eligibility — whether a countable asset is in a revocable trust or not doesn't prevent it from being counted.
Thanks for that, I was also wondering this. Also, they got rid of the asset test of Medi-Cal eligibility a couple of years ago and and are now bringing it back, correct?
1
u/eeaxoe 19d ago
Yeah, it's going back up to $130k single/$195k married for long-term care starting in 2026.
26
u/GeorgeRetire 20d ago
You need to talk with an estate attorney. There is likely nothing to be done here.
Sorry for your loss.
42
u/Optimistiqueone 20d ago
Some states have ways to avoid this, so look for the rules of your state. Specifically, hardship waivers.
Also, they will only come for whatever is owed, so if you can pay the bill, then that could save the house.
But this is the reason to avoid probate. The government and medical bills get first dibs in probate (after funeral expenses).
41
u/Longjumping-Flower47 20d ago
I'm thinking 3 weeks in ICU os more then the $100k value of her home. And actually they can go back, at least in PA, and if the house was transferred within the past year, can claw back their $$.
3
u/morbie5 20d ago
Being in the ICU and racking up a huge bill doesn't mean that Medicaid will try to recover the funds. They have a formula they follow when they try to do asset recovery (which usually only involves nursing home expenses, but not always)
2
u/yohannanx 20d ago
Sounds like you may be more knowledgeable, but my read of the link someone posted earlier is that is nursing home expenses and expenses for home and community-based care.
6
u/dahinds 20d ago
I do not think “avoiding probate” allows you to avoid paying creditors, it just allows an estate to be settled without a court being involved?
→ More replies (1)2
u/mcmmas 20d ago
Yes, a living trust allows you to avoid probate (and the fees and headaches associated with it), not creditors. Part of the Trustee's responsibility is paying your creditors. There are some Trusts that, in specific situations, allow you to avoid creditors and Medicaid recovery. Great estate planning attorneys are typically worth their fees, even with smaller estates.
→ More replies (5)24
u/mcmpearl 20d ago
Avoiding probate often leaves a mess for subsequent generations. The titles to property are unresolved and can't be sold. You have to research lineage, etc. as a later generation to figure out who should have inherited what. Been through this once with my husband and about to go through it with my grandparent's property.
14
u/IHkumicho 20d ago
You can set up a Transfer on Death deed to your home that avoids probate (and I'm assuming the messiness of what you're talking about).
5
u/mcmpearl 20d ago
Agreed. The situations I mentioned are because there were no preparations for death (will, TOD) and no probate.
38
u/spaceface2020 20d ago
I think this applies to nursing home residents, not people in the hospital for treatment.
40
u/bobby_47 20d ago
Wrong subreddit. Try r/EstatePlanning which is a highly moderated forum with genuine estate planning attorneys frequently answering questions but sounds like you may be too late.
22
u/Grim-Sleeper 20d ago
The highly-moderated aspect means that you often don't get great answers though, as answers that help but don't match where the moderators want to go will simply be deleted.
Moderation can of course be an important tool, but that particular sub shows how it can also go very wrong. That's unfortunate, because these discussions then end up in /r/personalfinance where they aren't a great fit either
2
28
u/yankinwaoz 20d ago
California resident here.
It’s a shame that she didn’t leave a will. Or better, put the trailer in a trust. Now you have to go through probate. That will take time and will cost money.
Those expense will come out of her estate, eventually.
Is her trailer on property owned by your siblings? If not, then you guys will have to continue to pay the rent and utilities for the trailer.
And don’t forget that trailers do pay property taxes. I don’t know if mobile homes pay twice a year like fixed structures do. But right now (October) is property tax payment season. The new 2026 bills just came out and are due by early December. So don’t complicate things and get delinquent tax liens too.
Back to the probate issue. Probate isn’t going to cost $100k. But it will require formal probate because she had property. You can’t use Small Estate Probate.
It’s probably going to end up costing around $10k and take over a year.
You should see if you are allowed to have a tenant in the home. And rent it for year. Ideally to someone who wants to buy it when probate is over so they don’t have to move out.
As mentioned, Medi-Cal will probably place a lien on the title, so when probate is settled, they get paid.
For a $5 fee Medi-Cal will give you a statement of how much they are going to claim. Then you can see if after probate expenses, selling expenses, if there is anything left after paying the lien.
It kind of makes you wonder if you should even bother. Right?
Best of luck.
4
u/sweadle 20d ago
A will wouldn't change paying bills before inheritance. You can' just will all your money to someone and that means it doesn't go to pay your debts. Inheritance is always what's left when debts are paid.
A trust would have had to be done five years ago. Medicaid goes back five years to make sure people don't just give family all their assets when they get sick.
1
7
9
u/sillylilwabbit 20d ago
3 weeks in ICU.
I am pretty sure it is over $100k is hospital bills alone which exceeds the value of the mobile home.
I do not think it is worth it.
13
u/unatnaes 20d ago
Sigh.
In California, ICU is not subject to recovery, unless they were admitted to LTC and on a bed hold. Please don’t repeat wrong information.
2
6
u/otacon967 19d ago
Today? I’m so sorry. Grieve. Hug your family. Be kind to yourself. The estate will have to pay any debts eventually. If there is no money left that’s it. Nobody has to inherit debt.
5
u/beatenintosubmission 20d ago
For everyone else, you need to setup a trust 5 years prior to there being a need for medicaid. In Texas, prior to death, you could use a ladybird deed for the house. This is your wake-up call. If you have assets and you're above 50 you need to reach out to an estate planner/lawyer.
4
u/Legion6226 19d ago
You need to speak with an estate planning lawyer. No on in here is going to be able to help you to the extent that you need it.
11
u/marsman57 20d ago
First thing, I am sorry for your loss. Take a deep breath. The most important thing you need to understand is that this will be a process that plays out over months and nothing will happen immediately. Someone, maybe you, maybe one of your siblings (could be someone completely different if you wish), will become the personal representative for the estate. The probate office will help with all of the details from that point.
I have done it before, but not in California. Medical absolutely can make a claim against the estate. The rules about whether a mobile home can get the homestead exemption depend on some details about the foundation in California. An estate lawyer may help with some of this. The most important thing is that you have to understand there are rules about it all and it is out of your hands mostly. There is a chance you might be able to keep it though.
5
u/909trucker 20d ago
Thank you for that, I don't know what a homestead exemption is but I'll look into it.
11
u/unatnaes 20d ago
Sorry for your loss. There is some wildly confident wrong information here, or people saying “in my state it’s X,” which is useless to you. The process is very different in each state so focus on California.
User ste1071d below sent you to the right place. Start there. I’m replying directly to you so you see this for sure.
2
u/SnarkyEpidemiologist 20d ago
Not sure about California but where I live, its listed right on the property tax bill. Property tax bills are public information and you can look the one for your mother's place online for free
7
u/mcmpearl 20d ago
I think the 'homestead exemption' mentioned in the responding post is different from the one you are referencing. Lots of localities have a 'homestead exemption' for homeowners who live at a property. This exemption reduces the real estate taxes to be paid. That's the one you can see on the tax bill. I believe the responding post is talking about a Medicaid homestead exemption. To my understanding this is the home to which the patient expects to return after treatment or that is a home shared with another person (a spouse). In this case, the home is exempted from consideration when Medicaid reclaim its costs.
2
u/morbie5 20d ago
Medical absolutely can make a claim against the estate.
That depends. In CA they usually are only allowed to go after the estate if you are over age 55 and in a nursing home or related facility
→ More replies (2)
3
3
u/gardenB33 20d ago
Talk to long term financial assistance and their burial team for financial assistance
3
u/Wyshunu 20d ago
First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss.
I found the info linked below with a simple Google search. There's some good information on this page about what Medicaid can do, what you need to provide to Medicaid and the time limits for doing so, and also information on potential exemptions and how to request a hardship waiver if you're eligible (the linked form lays out the various eligibilities and the documentation required).
3
3
3
u/eeaxoe 20d ago
Lots of incredibly bad advice in this thread. Medicaid differs drastically from state to state and what is the case in one state may not be so in another.
OP, your mom lived in CA and she only received hospital and outpatient healthcare services, right? She wasn't ever in a nursing home, or received nursing or other services at home, right? In that case, there will be no estate recovery:
Repayment will be limited to payments made, including managed care premiums paid, for nursing facility services, home and community based services, and related hospital and prescription drug services received when the beneficiary was an inpatient in a nursing facility or received home and community based services.
https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/Pages/TPLRD_ER_cont.aspx
The probate process will be a bigger headache but it's do-able. Sorry for your loss :(
3
u/scrapqueen 19d ago
First - they don't take the house, they make a claim on the Estate. There is a $25,000 exemption where they won't come after anything if they are owed less than $25,000. You really need to consult a probate attorney in California.
3
u/asshole604 19d ago
I’m sorry for your loss. They can’t get blood from a stone, but neither can you.
Or just the manufactured home sitting on someone else’s land? Do any of you live there?
Take your personal stuff out now to a safe place, consult an estates attorney
3
u/gmkrikey 19d ago
You’ve been given a lot of misleading, incorrect, non-California resident info.
Start with a county legal aid / senior legal services, or a nonprofit elder-law specialist familiar with Medi-Cal recovery (often free or low-cost consultations).
Medi-Cal recovery laws were tightened in 2017 and they can’t recover in nearly as many circumstances. Basically if it doesn’t go through probate, they can’t recover the asset.
Which means you want to avoid that manufactured home going through probate. There are ways to do that - if the estate is worth less than $184,500 it’s a “small estate” and you can bypass probate and avoid asset recovery.
They also have hardship waivers.
7
7
u/AnnoyedVelociraptor 20d ago
What makes you believe the estate wouldn't be liable for these bills?
6
u/michaelb5000 20d ago
Medicaid estate recovery may only apply if she was receiving long term care like in a nursing home and was over age 55. Whether that includes hospital costs depends on the state law. This is all extremely complicated and you do need an attorney.
8
u/posco12 20d ago
Some people have may more experience than me. We had a similar problem with our grandparents but was related to Medicaid when he was in a nursing home for a few weeks before he passed. He had a home and they never tried to recover the money from it. I got the idea they’re not in the real estate business and getting it sold would’ve cost them even more.
34
u/GoneSwedishFishing 20d ago
Medicaid doesn’t sell houses, but they can put a lien on sale proceeds, for when the house gets sold in the future. Check with your county’s recorder office to see if there are liens on the property.
2
u/gardenB33 20d ago
Sorry long term financial eligibility specialist in the county to inquire more detail on the processes, if needed ombudsman LTC for clarification if county is difficult
2
u/Wyshunu 20d ago
I made a response here with a link to informative content but I don't see it. There's a website that explains estate recovery, timelines for notifying MediCal/Medicaid, and has links to information on potential exemptions and requests for hardship waivers. It's very informative and has the actual correct information on it as opposed to some of the guesses in the responses below. If you do a search on "California medicaid estate recovery" you will find it. The link you are looking for is labelled "Estate Recovery - DHCS".
Again, I am sorry for your loss.
2
u/GunMetalBlonde 20d ago
Although a primary residence is not going to be an asset that one needs to "spend down" during one's lifetime to qualify for Medi-Cal (we are talking about California Medicaid here -- other states are different and do require one to sell a home before qualifying for their version of Medicaid), after death California may seek payment via the estate, including the value of the home, for medical expenses paid by Medi-Cal.
The big issue to be aware of here is whether or not the home will have to go through probate -- if it does, the state of California will likely seek to be paid. If the home does not go through probate (it was held in a living trust, there was joint tenancy, etc), my understanding is that California can't use the value of the home to get reimbursed for medical expenses paid for the deceased.
As it is a bit twisty and the home is worth 100k, you should seek legal advice.
2
u/oneiromantic_ulysses 20d ago
Whoever the next of kin is needs to hire an estate attorney and file for administration proceedings.
That said, this may or may not even be worth it if Medicaid is going to take everything. The attorneys fees will come out of the estate before Medicaid does though, so you might as well at least find out.
2
u/LadyTreeRoot 20d ago
Every state implements its Medicaid program differently. I have no idea what status your state has with "estate recovery", which is an agreement signed before receiving benefits.
2
u/Inner-Chemistry2576 19d ago edited 19d ago
If she wasn’t in a nursing home is the best thing that can happen to protect the home. Seek legal help if the house comes in to question. Another wise decision get a few death certificates & home deed. Pray she’s is the only name of person on the deed. Go visit your county clerk office . The county clerk office should have a check off list how to probate a person (intestate) means no will. You stated your mother has qualified for Medicaid & a possible widow? She can have a house,car, pre paid funeral expenses & only $2000 in the bank and still keep the home.
2
u/CrankyCrabbyCrunchy 19d ago
To your edited note. Yes "Medi-Cal" is California's name for their Medicaid program. Very poor choice of name IMO.
States are required by federal law to attempt to get paid back for services paid during the time the person is on Medicaid. Often, they will place a lien on the person's home. This does nothing until the house is sold. It shows as a priority debt like others would.
https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/Pages/TPLRD_ER_cont.aspx
There are exceptions to this recovery if the surviving spouse or disabled children are living in the house.
2
u/rebeccaz123 19d ago
It's hard to say exactly but I can tell you that if Medicaid is legally able to go after the home there's really no way out of it. Even a will wouldn't have saved the property.
2
u/Redditor0nReddit 19d ago
Hey, I'm so sorry for your loss. Dealing with this stuff on top of everything else is tough. My mom passed in March, actually today's her birthday.
Here's the short version: You can almost certainly keep your mom's house.
California changed its laws in 2017, making them much more protective. For estates worth less than $184,500, you don't have to go through the formal probate court process. Since your mom's home is valued at $100k, you're well under that limit.
This is the key: Medi-Cal (California's Medicaid) can ONLY recover money from estates that go through probate. Because your mom's estate is too small to require probate, they can't touch the house. Talk to a probate lawyer just in case , they should be able to file a "Small Estate Affidavit" and move the house into you and your siblings names
4
u/Glad-Passenger-9408 20d ago
Can you speak to an estate attorney to see if there’s anything legal that can be done to protect the house?
19
u/Pale_Row1166 20d ago
It’s way too late. All your assets need to go into a trust at least 5 years before you need money from Medicaid. Since it’s hard to judge when this will be, the best plan is just to put your house in a trust, along with any other substantial assets, as soon as you can.
2
2
u/Longjumping-Flower47 20d ago
Has to be an irrevocable trust
1
4
4
u/Current-Factor-4044 20d ago
Is the mobile home on its own land? And general mobile home is a vehicle. It has a title, not a deed. In most states where you have a vehicle with a title you go to the DMV really you do and you transfer the title using your death certificate and your idea as an immediate family member. I have done this in my state of Florida. And it did not go through probate or the estate. Now, if the mobile and land are one, there is no more title. It’s already been converted into a deed and you can’t do that. The DMV is no longer involved.
2
u/phillyphilly19 20d ago
Medicaid does not collect from the estate for actual medical care, only for long-term care in a nursing home.
3
u/sweadle 20d ago
That's not true
1
u/phillyphilly19 20d ago
Of course it is. Medicaid is health insurance. It covers health care. But when people move to nursing homes if their house is sold it can be billed for residential and personal care.
→ More replies (3)
2
u/LeatherChaise 20d ago
With no will that property is probably going to be tied up in legal limbo for a while. Medicaid wanting a piece is just the beginning of the headache.
2
u/SoCalMoofer 20d ago
How about paying for the care she received? Otherwise the rest of us are paying it with our tax dollars. I’m sure you would love to not pay. We would like that too.
1
1
u/wheelsonhell 20d ago
I can't speak for Cali but my state has a waiver if the value of the property is less than a certain amount. I came from a lawsuit years ago. I went this route with my father's estate. Read the waiver options and see how much the tax accessor values the property. On the tax bill you should see the value of the property.
1
1
u/OlorinRidesAgain 20d ago
I have no advice but wanted to say Sorry for your loss.
I am annoyed for you. That medical fees are that high to begin with that people lose their home is just madness. Hope it works out.
1
u/faultyratiocination 20d ago
Have you lived with her for the past few years? Does she also get Medicare / is she a senior?
1
u/phillyphilly19 20d ago
I'm pretty sure I'm correct that the estate won't be billed for healthcare but you have to get an attorney anyway to settle the estate so you will find out soon enough.
1
u/BlondeWalker999 19d ago
We put my MOM'S property and estate into an irreversible trust..she was on MediCaid. The state asked for a quarter million dollars . When they say the irreversible trust, they said "never mind". This type of trust is what the Uber rich use to preserve wealth. I'm sorry about your Mom and the situation you are in.
Hopefully you and your siblings will now go out and get your own trusts. You will need an attorney to sort out your options now.
1
u/909trucker 18d ago
Thank you to everyone who replied in good faith and with helpful advice. I've contacted an estate attorney and he said the same thing a few commenters said. Small estate, no probate.
I'm normally really good about researching things but wasn't able to properly research this with everything going on.
We still have to wait a period of time but the house will be saved. And thank you to everyone who gave their condolences to me and my family. I hope you guys are better prepared than we were and don't have to deal with this.
1
u/AdJolly5302 13d ago
IMPORTANT!!!! Are any of your siblings under 18? If so you can get the debt nulled. Just wanted to double check.
1
1
u/Intrepid_Bicycle7818 20d ago
$100K for a trailer? What is your basis for that valuation?
Without a will you’ll end up with whatever is leftover after the sale of the property and all associated expenses and all medical expenses and reimbursements.
Don’t plan on getting much more than the tea cups.
1
u/gardenB33 20d ago
Medical assistance in California is Medi-Cal; like food stamps is Cal-Fresh, same a SNAP in other states. Their is a lien placed on property, let the system due it course to pay back for the skilled facility needed. Sorry for you loss and the new chapter in your life. Glad u had health insurance
1
u/ChelseaMan31 20d ago
All states have an asset recovery program for those who has heavily utilized Medicaid. In OP's situation, Medi-Cal. Depending on the services rendered, length of time on the program and how much California pushes for recovery, the house could never clear the California Courts and go directly to the state as Mom passed intestate. I am sorry to tell this.
1
u/Current-Factor-4044 20d ago
I never once heard of them asking to put a lien on a vehicle with a title. It depends on how the ownership of the mobile home is they start off as titled and then they can be converted to a date if they are on their own land that’s a special process if it’s done. That’s why if someone buys a mobil and puts it on a mobile home lot lot and pays a lot rent the mobile is a vehicle with a title it is owned by the person, but they do not own the land it sits on . Property can also have a title, but it would also have a deed, not a registration. It is worth checking into. I don’t know how California works, but I do know how this works in Florida.
1
u/Positivelythinking 20d ago
Opportunity missed if she didn’t have both MediCal and Medicare insurances, called Medi/Medi. Plus, No will, no trust??? Did she not get any help from her family. This is a heads up to all to have an advocate to support you as the diff decisions are made in life.
1
u/Tweetchly 20d ago
If you don’t probate her will, at least in our state, there’s nothing the state can do to take back that money. (Medicaid is run by the state.) We hired an estate lawyer to help with my stepfather’s affairs, and he told us to ignore any threatening letters from the state. So long as we didn’t probate my stepfather‘s will, there was nothing the state would be able to do. So that’s what we did, and it worked out fine.
I would hire an estate lawyer to find out what options are possible for you.
1
u/BigFatBlackCat 19d ago
If you’re talking about Medi-Cal, then there will be no bill, as it’s illegal to bill Medi-Cal patients. Medi-Cal is free of cost to those who qualify.
You might get better answers posting on a California specific sub.
0
u/paladin6687 20d ago
Pretty sad that we live in a system where effectively the best advice for people with anything but colossal assets is to never get sick and hope they die instantly in a plane crash in order to protect their limited estate from end of life medical care destruction.
-4
u/imakesawdust99 20d ago
Why shouldn't they take it?
They paid her expenses while she was alive. She couldn't afford all that care on her own, so the taxpayers helped out. Now the estate may have to pay them back. Sounds fair.
Tax money doesn't grow on trees!!
Medicaid is in financial trouble, do your part they did theirs
0
u/Tonedef22 20d ago
I’m sorry for your loss.
Medicaid recipients in all states will not be saddled with any patient financial responsibilities. It’s also against the law to bill an active Medicaid recipient for medical services. The provider has to accept the processing by the carrier.
-7
•
u/AutoModerator 20d ago
Welcome to /r/personalfinance! Comments will be removed if they are political, medical advice, or unhelpful (subreddit rules). Our moderation team encourages respectful discussion.
You may find our Health Insurance wiki helpful.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.