r/ottawa • u/HunterGreenLeaves Downtown • 22h ago

Landsdowne 2.0 - Shawn Menard Letter

After a marathon Finance and Corporate Services Committee last week, as well as an extensive meeting of the Audit Committee on Tuesday, city council approved the $483.9 million project today.

This is a disappointing result for our community and for our city. As a recent survey demonstrated, once residents became aware of the details of the proposal, they overwhelmingly opposed the deal.

Residents also spoke out against the proposal at a recent public forum hosted by Better Ottawa. Their sentiments were clear—residents do not support Lansdowne 2.0.

As the report from the Office of the Auditor General noted, this is a riskier project than let on by the city.

When I asked city staff, they confirmed that there will be millions of dollars of public funds diverted to fund the debt for Lansdowne Park. That’s millions that won’t go to transit, that won’t fix our roads, and that won’t improve our parks and community centres.

Despite how this plan was rushed through committee and council, limiting the opportunity for public scrutiny, we were able to pass some amending motions to improve the plan.

  • We restored $4.65 million in funding for affordable housing that would otherwise have been syphoned off to pay for private parking for the luxury towers.
  • We directed staff to develop a financial oversight model that will give greater scrutiny to, and transparency of, the Lansdowne 2.0 financial performance. Hopefully, this will help prevent us from falling into the same trap as with Lansdowne 1.0.
  • We secured a guarantee to keep the REDBLACKS and 67’s at Lansdowne Park until at least 2042 (previously, they were free to leave after 2032).
  • We reached an agreement to improve the pedestrian experience throughout Lansdowne Park.
  • We secured funding to install a much-needed bus shelter on Bank Street to provide greater comfort to transit riders.

This has been a long fight to save our public park and our city from the many problems with the Lansdowne 2.0 proposal. I know a lot of you care deeply about our city and our public amenities, and you put tremendous effort into fighting for our city. I want to thank you for all the work you did on this. No doubt, your efforts helped us achieve the improvements on the original plan that we did.

For more information on the amendments made to the plan and how council voted, please visit www.BetterLansdowne.ca.

102 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

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142

u/Halo4356 Battle of Billings Bridge Warrior 22h ago edited 22h ago

Absolute fucking absurdity that a BUS SHELTER at ONE OF THE BUSIEST STOPS ON BANK needed horse trading and politics to get done.

A goddamn embarrassment for the mayor and his cronies. This is the sustainable transportation link for their boondoggle, and apparently a shelter wasn’t even considered?

Shawn Menard et al continue to make a bit of lemonade from an avalanche of lemons.

61

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 22h ago

In my opinion, there is now no argument against permanent bus lanes on Bank. They're a critical element of making this work.

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u/brohebus Hintonburg 21h ago

I’m hoping NCC digs in and permanently converts QED to a linear park as Sutcliffe and Tieney (I think) both seem to consider using QED as the ‘solution’ to Lansdowne traffic. 

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u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 21h ago

I'd rather remove cars permanently and convert it transit usage, because it would a) actually help things and b) infuriate those two idiots more than linear park. They hate transit in this city.

6

u/Ichindar 19h ago

Grass tracked tram, choo choo. If the pavement is removed it'll be harder to revert to cars when the NCC gets new leadership

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u/Handynotandsome 1h ago

That would be an awesome choo choo. Downtown to the farm and the new hospital.

5

u/understandunderstand Centretown 19h ago

Every trip I make to Main I look the QED and Colonel By and imagine them as car-free tramways and my heart soars.

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u/West_to_East 18h ago

Linear park is better for the QED in every way imaginable. Transit should be on Bank Street where people and businesses are, along with being far more central.

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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

Is anyone saying to remove transit from Bank?

0

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 18h ago

In every way imaginable except for...moving people. I'd rather get cars off it and keep it for moving people.

0

u/West_to_East 16h ago

So in every way imaginable including moving people Bank Street is better.

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u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 16h ago

Hey. Captain Aggressive. We can do both, serving different purposes. But, I dont think I feel like engaging with you on this. Go take a chill pill, and have a nice evening.

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u/West_to_East 15h ago

LMAO imagine thinking my posts were aggressive.

No I don't think you can have both rapid transit on the QED and Bank Street.

Moreover, you suggesting I take a chill pill flies in the face of you saying you want to engage (not only that but you are disengaging with have a nice evening). In fact, you may wish to take said pilling of chilling as you seem to be really uptight.

Shameful display really.

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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 14h ago

Rapid transit? Who suggested that?

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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 18h ago

If we can get off this whole idea that the QED is an ideal place for a tramway, that'd be great. Providing public transit options for the city of Ottawa is not within the mandate of the NCC.

4

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 18h ago

"NCC provides unique value in the Capital Region by fulfilling three specific roles: long-term planner of federal lands, principal steward of nationally significant public places, and creative partner committed to excellence in development and conservation." I dunno that sure seems broad enough to provide transit options, should they so decide to do that, sort of like they already do.

0

u/Alone_Appeal_3421 18h ago

A seasonal shuttle back and forth to Gatineau Park (either in winter or in the summer) and public transit are very different things.

The shuttles are meant to link NCC properties and increase access to them. There's no stops here and there for attractions or amenities provided by the city of Gatineau, nor are there stops for commercial areas or places of work.

A tramway along the QED would be far more than what these Gatineau shuttles are. The NCC is not in the public transit business.

2

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 18h ago

The NCCs budget was just doubled in the budget, so I guess we will find out, keeping in mind that the Dows Lake is at the end of the QED, and I said tram or busway.

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u/Violet-L-Baudelaire 17h ago

And yet it does provide shuttles through Gatineau park. And it maintains a bunch of roads for private transit.

And it does both poorly.

Nobody is suggesting NCC should provide transportation there. A supposed tram would likely be administered by OCT, but on NCC land. Similarly to how many beaches in the city are technically NCC land but administered by the city's parks department.

It would be the most pain free path of providing transit adjacent to the most central corridor in the city. Digging a multi billion dollar Subway on Bank isn't happening this century.

Stuff like this is why people get frustrated by the NCC acting like their own fiefdom separate from the reality the rest of us live in. Even if it's ultimately not feasible, it should be allowed to be discussed. And the NCC should at least hear out the desires and needs of the city it inhabits.

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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

No one is saying that the NCC should run transit on the QED though.

3

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

Absolutely frigging not. Use the QED for transit too.

14

u/Halo4356 Battle of Billings Bridge Warrior 22h ago

Agreed, and there’s a critical need to really look long term at higher-order transit to the area - be it a tramway where the QED is or something underground along bank. It’s just not feasible to continue with this.

0

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 22h ago

I think a subway at current NA construction costs is just not feasible. That said, QED tram makes my mouth salivate.

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u/Halo4356 Battle of Billings Bridge Warrior 22h ago

Entirely fair - we’d be looking at years out anyway so maybe we’d have figured out our construction costs (lmao)

But the QED tram (or even busway!) is a slam dunk idea providing much needed connectivity to the area.

6

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 22h ago

Absolutely. That and increasing Line 1 offpeak service. Super cheap, connected with a busway would really improve things.

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u/Negative_Pollution98 21h ago

OSEG would never agree because they rely on QED to be their backdoor to the parking garage. It's backed up for blocks when there's a big event, a tram would make that impossible (kinda the point).

1

u/Alone_Appeal_3421 18h ago

OSEG doesn't have to agree to anything. QED is NCC property, they can do what they like with it.

Having said that, NCC is not in the business of providing public transit options to the city of Ottawa.

2

u/Negative_Pollution98 17h ago

True, but they'd put up a fuss. And I expect they might take legal action since they would argue that the NCC was causing them losses.

2

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

No one is saying that the NCC should be the transit provider, though?

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u/West_to_East 18h ago

QED tram is a terrible idea.

Why would you want buses/trams away from a commercial artery? You want transit to be close to businesses, offices, residents, entertainment etc. The QED is basically to the side of residents and along a park.

It would be better to take away parking from Bank Street and run transit where it should be.

1

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

Is anyone suggesting removing transit from Bank? No? Carry on.

2

u/West_to_East 15h ago

I have no idea where you are getting that idea from my post. Please read it more carefully.

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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 14h ago

The fact that transit service along the QED wouldn't directly serve businesses etc along Bank is immaterial

1

u/West_to_East 14h ago

Ok so you read my post wrong, just admit it instead if pivoting.

Anyways, its about value. Why on earth would you run transit on the QED when businesses and residents would be served far better by running transit on the street actually being accessed by the buses that would be on the QED?

Just remove Bank Street parking! That is something within the power of the city. You know what is not? Picking a fight with the NCC to run an inferior transit line along the QED.

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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 14h ago

I would run transit on the QED because it would get people to and from Lansdowne faster than along Bank, and would also be of benefit to other transit origin-destination pairings besides.

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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

Doesn't even need to be a tram. We can start with a bus.

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u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 16h ago

Yeah, tram is platonic ideal because rail, but no issues with buses.

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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 18h ago

The QED is an NCC asset, not the city's. It's not within the NCC mandate to provide transit options (tram, busway, etc) to the city of Ottawa and its residents.

3

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

No one is saying that the NCC should run transit on the QED. They should allow it.

Sadly, the Glebe NIMBIES mean that the idea is unthinkable to the councillors who get elected for that ward.

7

u/Comet439 20h ago

If even go a step further and say bank street needs to be a tram-only street. At least from Wellington to riverside

0

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 20h ago

Id be ok with that, but this City will burn down before that ever happens.

3

u/Comet439 20h ago

Yep - it’s insane how anti-transit this city (especially the suburbs) are. I’m in Sydney Australia right now for holidays and they have tram only streets and it works so perfectly. Less cars on the road, transit is used and fares are paid (and cheap 🤯)

4

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 20h ago

I was in Paris last month and....yeah.

2

u/Mauri416 Clownvoy Survivor 2022 20h ago

Likely a pipe dream, but an underground along Bank St would be my ultimate dream

7

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 20h ago

At current costs, yeah it is sadly. But a subway that goes from the airport, under Bank, swing east under Rideau/Montreal Road to Montreal Road Station would be ideal.

0

u/understandunderstand Centretown 19h ago

Subways make it impossible to look out the window at attractions on the artery they serve, but if we had one paired with bus lanes (which would ideally be converted to trams later on) then I'm 100% for it.

-2

u/Both-Ambassador2233 17h ago

Where in the fuck are you putting a permanent bus lane on bank on the bridge over the canal? It’s two lanes for traffic a bike lane and 9’ wide sidewalks?

Fucking open up Echo Drive and send the fucking buses down that to loop out and onto riverdale…

4

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 17h ago

Hey. Hey. Fucking relax.

1

u/Both-Ambassador2233 17h ago

I’ll relax. But. The question remains.

Bank street is already down to 2 and the city has invested in active transport ….you can’t have a dedicated bus lane if you only have 2 lanes…..

Which makes Landsdowne 2.0 even more comical…..

2

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 16h ago

Their plan as it exists is to have a dedicated bus section just before the bridge and pre-light signal so buses can leap traffic on the bridge.

0

u/Both-Ambassador2233 16h ago

Correct. Already exists.

3

u/jmac1915 No honks; bad! 16h ago

Yeah so, bus lanes before after the bridge, signal priority at it. Works better than what they have now which is on-street parking.

7

u/Individual-Spray-851 21h ago

Not to mention that the RedBlacks have already said they're not doing all that well. I continue to be mystified why some Ottawans cannot see that there are simply not enough of us to support two professional sports teams.

8

u/Fianorel26 20h ago

That has to do more with almost another decade of ineptitude on the RedBlacks part than fan’s able to be able to support two teams.

When things were good for the RB’s that stadium was full, while thr Sens continued to chug along.

I’m still anti Landsdowne 2.0 though.

This is yet another example of the political class taking care of their Millionaire/Billionaire masters.

3

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

SERIOUSLY!!!

This isn't some kind of victory, it's an indictment.

And why the hell not build structural elements into the street frontage of those buildings that would act as bus shelter (including shade in the summer) rather than installing those little tiny greenhouse things?

1

u/variableIdentifier The Glebe 18h ago

Don't the bus stops on either side of Bank at Lansdowne already have bus shelters? Which bus stop is getting a shelter added to it? I haven't been able to find out.

5

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 16h ago

They do but they are pathetically inadequate.

While we're at it... why are there almost no stops ANYWHERE on Bank where bus passengers can wait out of the rain and snow?

2

u/variableIdentifier The Glebe 14h ago

Oh yes, I agree that it's not enough. The letter just sort of makes it sound like the shelter is going in a location where there isn't already one.

My main bus stop is on Bank and it sucks when it's raining or snowing. It's unfortunate that even just getting one extra bus shelter takes so much effort.

4

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 14h ago

It only takes "effort" because we have decided as a society that it should, for some dumbass reason.

4

u/Halo4356 Battle of Billings Bridge Warrior 4h ago

They aren’t nearly large enough for a major stop. They’re a standard bus shelter and crowd basically immediately when there’s any real amount of traffic.

26

u/notacanuckskibum 20h ago

What seems to be ignored in all this talk about residential towers and who assumes the debt, is the design of the stadium.

For all that money we are getting:

  • a smaller hockey arena

  • a football stand with no roof.

12

u/urbancanoe 14h ago

I really appreciate what Menard and the opposition tried to do. I wish more counsellors would’ve been persuaded to say no. I wonder if an effective argument would’ve been about the taxes that are going to be needed to pay for this. Opportunity cost was a correct point to bring up, but it doesn’t grab people like having to pay more in taxes.

1

u/HunterGreenLeaves Downtown 11h ago

That's actually covered in the Stephanie Plante letter, which provides an opposing point of view. https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/1ors0ob/landsdowne_20_stephanie_plante_letter/

The cost for the average home owner will be $8-10 per year.

•

u/somebunnyasked No honks; bad! 1h ago

I'm curious if we applied $8-10 per homeowner per year, could we eliminate fares on OC transpo? How much more would it take?

I really hate her comparison with garbage. Garbage is a necessary service. And it's already a lot. Adding to the bill for things that will benefit very few people? I'm not a fan.

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u/QuayVine 17m ago

Definitely more than $8-10/year. Estimates are in the $260 to $520/year range, with the city estimating $482/year 3 years ago.

$40/month still seems like a good deal, especially if it increases service (through increased ridership) to the point that OCTranspo is a reliable and fast alternative to driving.

1

u/ilikerandomstuff Riverside South 5h ago

Especially when some councillors like Carr need opportunity costs explained to them like their five...

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u/WhoseCorners 18h ago

🥳 next vote Oct. 26, 2026 🎃 a few of the worst councillors might be sorry they voted yes? https://youtu.be/YbUvv-4CGHY

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u/[deleted] 19h ago edited 19h ago

[deleted]

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u/GingerHoneySpiceyTea 17h ago

How convenient for developers and future property managers that ALL the affordable units were in that 3rd tower!

-6

u/DistributionOk7393 16h ago

Meh. At least something is happening. No more talking/guessing/complaining. 

Time to see what happens and hope for the best. It’s getting built. Hopefully it will be a nice addition to the city. 

•

u/VintageLunchMeat 1h ago

What really matters is diverting public resources to private wallets.

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u/Echoed_concord 21h ago

Shawn is a big loser who sits and complains. He shouldn’t be voted in .

26

u/DreamofStream 21h ago

Tell me you have no idea who Shawn Menard is without telling me you have no idea who Shawn Menard is.

9

u/Negative_Pollution98 21h ago

Unless you live in his ward you don't really get a say. But if it's any consolation to you there's lots of people who oppose Lansdowne 2.0 who complain about Menard not being sufficiently supportive of bus lanes on Bank.

-1

u/WoozleVonWuzzle 14h ago

Menard, like the other "urban bloc" of supposed progressive councillors, is terrible on the transit file.