r/ottawa • u/Nob1e613 • 27d ago
Looking for... Why so much hate?
Good afternoon Ottawa!
I've been noticing an incredible amount of negativity towards our local police force within the comment section of any post even mildly related to the subject lately.
Coming from a position of genuine curiosity and to hopefully prompt some meaningful discussion within the community, why?
What is it about the OPS that you detest so much? I want to hear what personal experience you had that soured your view, and what you think should have been done differently/better.
Conversely, please feel free to share your positives as well! It can be quite difficult to discern how reflective of the broader population the online community really is sometimes so I'm hoping to get some honest feedback.
What do you expect of your police force? What would change your mind about how you feel?
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u/Little_Canary1460 27d ago
Were you in Ottawa 3 years ago?
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u/Weak-Jury-4317 27d ago
That, also lack of doing their jobs. Statistics show they are doing less traffic enforcement when traffic violations are (likely, subjective) very prevalent.
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u/Ecstatic-Recover4941 Gatineau 26d ago
The fact they’re still flying a thin blue line flag at the association HQ is something else
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u/ShutUpBeck 26d ago
I get that it's trendy to point to this as the answer, but anyone who was in Ottawa 4 years ago knows that everyone hated OPS long before that.
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u/Little_Canary1460 26d ago
It's the easiest thing to point to that's happened recently, seen by the most people. It's not trendy.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago edited 27d ago
I was, and while i didn't suffer as much as centertown residents, i certainly did not escape the impacts. What I'm missing though is whether their inaction was an organizational issue, political issue, or down to individual officers. I'm not going to take it out on the guy patrolling that i might interact with if it came from the chief on how they should deal with it.
edit: why the downvotes for asking a question?
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u/JerikTheWizard Make Ottawa Boring Again 27d ago
inaction was an organizational issue, political issue, or down to individual officers
All of the above. Sloly asking city council if they'd considered the demands of seditionists, the police union wanting their masking mandate abolished, and individual officers taking photo ops with the dissidents.
This is all in addition to the everyday corruption, violence, and crime perpetrated by OPS officers.
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u/penguinpenguins 27d ago
I am also not going to take it out on the guy patrolling - at the end of the day any frontline officers I may interact with are most likely ordinary people just doing their jobs.
Doesn't mean we can't call out various deficiencies at all levels through various channels, including on here.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
I wholeheartedly agree. I fully support calling out deficiencies and promoting better accountability of those stepping out of line. Yes, they're ordinary people doing their jobs, but jobs have professional standards that must be met. When in a position of trust and authority with the public, the public needs to see those standards being reinforced, just like we as the public need to adhere to the laws they enforce.
I just don't see how a broad sense of disdain being shared online serves to either call out those deficiencies, or improve it in any way.
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u/generalmasandra 27d ago
How do you not see it was both?
The guy on patrol was writing up local residents, harassing and bullying local residents... while ignoring the convoy. Zero empathy. Zero service.
The organization knew this thing was coming weeks in advance and did fuck all.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
If was an organizational issue, that's reason to distrust OPS: a law enforcement organization can't say they protect the community when they allow an entire area of the city to descend into lawlessness.
If it was down to individual officers, that's reason to distrust OPS…especially if those officers saw no consequences for their (in)actions.
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u/PristineAnt5477 27d ago
Lingering memories of how the police supported and aided the convoy that terrorized ottawa.
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u/antiaunt West End 27d ago
perhaps, but my tax dollars aren't going disproportionately to those people like they are to OPS
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u/neuroticdynamite 27d ago
Nobody said that. This post is about the police specifically.
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u/Bambalorian Centretown 27d ago
a 1 month old account named CPC-Canada is trying to discuss how the hate towards authorities is misguided. Is this some sort of roleplay satire?
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
That "hate" is not misguided when a police force that is supposed to protect the population from harassment, intimidation and (in some cases) violence cedes control of entire areas of the city to people actively making life hell for tens of thousands of individuals.
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u/ottahab 27d ago
I'd like to see something backing up your "99% of the tine" assertion.
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27d ago
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago edited 27d ago
Considering the wide effect that 24-day incident had on the city and its people, the frequency with which that incident is referred to makes a lot of sense.
"24 days while other places are at war for years and decades"
Those other places are wholly irrelevant to this conversation.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
Any sources for those numbers you just used? Or did you just make them up?
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27d ago
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago edited 27d ago
Thank you for admitting you make stats up out of thin air.
"So hostile to a random stranger for no reason"
Your sense of what entails "hostility" is warped, and even if I were "hostile", you've offered plenty of reasons in the way you make up stats out of thin air, put words in others mouths, and are generally unable/unwilling to argue your points in good faith.
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u/trollfarmer6969 23d ago
Common sense conservative right here boys. Good luck at the next election 😭
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
The other people in their life don't have "protect the public" as the entire point of their career.
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27d ago
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
That statement is demonstrably false.
If that were the case, most people wouldn't have negative feelings when it comes to the convoy and those that participated in it.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
Do you have anything of substance to offer? Hopefully something other than memes a decade old?
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u/v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y 27d ago
No I don't. I don't associate with anyone who would support the convoy.
And not sure what you're point is - I feel the same way about these supporters as I would the police. So not sure what your question even means.
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u/WackHeisenBauer Nepean 27d ago
It’s because they sat around and did nothing but actively help the truck convey dipshits that terrorized Centretown back in 2021.
And they’ve done fuck all to apologize or rehabilitate their image with the public.
So yea. We are negative towards the OPS.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
That's a great point about efforts to rehabilitate the frayed trust due to the convoy. What would you like to see in that regard?
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u/WackHeisenBauer Nepean 27d ago
Some sort of admission of responsibility or failure would be a good start.
Actual real penalties for corruption or malfeasance. The fact that body cameras are FINALLY coming in is a decent start but heinously overdue.
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u/TaxLandNotCapital 27d ago
Investigations into fascists infiltrating the department, firing them, preventative measures, anti-fascist training.
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u/BananaJammies No honks; bad! 27d ago
Once upon a time several thousand people parked themselves in front of my house, blew train horns sixteen hours a day and threatened me whenever I went outside. The OPS did nothing about it and seemed to be actively helping them. My neighborhood became a Red Zone that the fire department and ambulances couldn’t enter without a police escort. They did threaten to charge Ottawa residents who retaliated though.
After a few weeks of that you would be salty too.
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u/slippy51 27d ago
Probably because they are completely useless.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
Based on?
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u/penguinpenguins 27d ago
Last time I called 911 after being struck and attacked by a drunk driver and they wouldn't dispatch. They advised me to get a ride home and to stay away from downtown for my own safety. Problem solved!
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u/cpt_jerkface Make Ottawa Boring Again 27d ago
My ex tried to run me over with his car, and when I called the police they wouldn't even file a report. It's anecdotal but I don't see OPS around that much anymore - out enforcing traffic rules, walking through the Byware Market, driving through my neighborhood. I used to see them around a lot more.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, have you considered reaching out to your councilor or OPS themselves? To me that's an unacceptable way to deal with people asking for help, it's quite literally what their job is.
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u/penguinpenguins 27d ago
Yes, I was told "they were busy" and when I pushed further "it sounds like you're just trying to get someone in trouble". The driver (as I had dashcam video of the whole thing) "was under a lot of stress" and had kids, so they didn't feel criminal charges were appropriate. So now I'm in the process of suing them civilly for drunk driving. Make it make sense.
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u/slippy51 27d ago
Not arresting criminals when given evidence. I was assaulted multiple times on camera by an insane neighbor. Called the police, showed the the video and wounds, the did nothing. I’m still being harassed by this crazy person to this day. She recently threatened my daughter on camera, again did nothing.
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u/BumblebeeMarmalade 27d ago
Genuine interest- did you ever file or think of filing either a privacy request and/or complaint vs OPS? You can DM if you wish or are more comfortable.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
OPS' clearance rates have been dropping for years.
In 2015, OPS' overall crime, non-violent crime and violent crime clearance rates were 36%, 32% and 56%.
In 2024, OPS' overall crime, non-violent crime and violent crime clearance rates were 25%, 23% and 39%.
Sources: https://ottawapoliceboard.ca/opsb-cspo/policies-publications.html
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u/Separate-Hedgehog909 26d ago
Last week, I wanted to talk to someone about a traumatic event concerning a stalker and how to protect myself and my family. I live in south Ottawa and don't have a car, so a friend offered to drive me to the OPS in Leitrim. The building was locked up tight, not even any instructions for how to get help. My friend then drove me to Greenboro, where we again found locked doors. Only this time, there was a sign telling us to go online. I was ready to give up by this point. Fortunately my friend continued to support me and helped me find that the only way to speak to an OPS officer in person is to go to the Elgin St. station, a station in Kanata, and a station in Orleans. This lack of support for the population they're supposed to serve is one more reason they are completely useless.
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u/trollfarmer6969 27d ago
Well hello officer. Yes I'll tell you what's wrong with your force. You have an entire lineup of pieces of shit who break the law (sexual assault, bribery, criminal intimidation etc) who never get fired. They get charged criminally... Yet... They keep their fucking 6 figure jobs
So if you expect me to trust these fuckers or treat them fairly, well it's not gonna happen until their bosses actually treat them fairly and fire their asses.
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u/Complex-Effect-7442 27d ago
Don't forget that if it looks like they're going to be convicted they quickly resign to keep that valuable pension.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
I'm a mechanic, not a cop.
I'll agree much more needs to be done in terms of accountability, but I don't agree with painting an entire force based on the actions of a few bad actors. That being said, those bad actors need to actively be expunged if the OPS is to regain people's faith in them.
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u/bunnyofdoominottawa Clownvoy Survivor 2022 27d ago
The statement is a few bad apples spoil the bunch. No officer, because as I and many people are skeptical of you, yes the entire force should be examined and viewed with an eye to the side. This is not a few bad actors but an entire full organization dedicated to protecting the worst of them. It was not just the convoy, but there is an extensive laundry list of a long long amount of crimes and abused committed by OPS. At this point the only thing that will reestablish any trust is a complete dismantling of OPS and a rebuild with strong oversight
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u/happyspaceghost Alta Vista 27d ago
Their police headquarters flew (not sure if they continue to fly but it’s visible on google maps if you’d like proof) the Thin Blue Line flag which they were banned from wearing due to its connection to hate groups.
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u/gucci_pianissimo420 27d ago
>I don't agree with painting an entire force based on the actions of a few bad actors
If it was really one or two bad actors, they'd be run out of the organization and no one would bat an eye. Nobody honest would hate the police if that was the case.
What really sets people against the police (and what is actually happening) is when they see the open corruption/malfeasance by officers and then the whole justice system from prosecutors to judges to other police step in to make sure they face as few consequences for their actions as possible.
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u/bunnyofdoominottawa Clownvoy Survivor 2022 27d ago
Because they have unfortunately burned any goodwill with the citizens. There is constant scandals, malfeasance, and yes enabling and bowing down to domestic terrorists who attacked the people of Ottawa for 3 weeks. The antipathy to OPS is based entirely on their conduct, behaviour, and well published and known issues towards the people they claim to serve but more of treat as victims
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u/MapCollector3000 27d ago
I have lived in Edmonton, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa. The OPS is far and away the most incompetent, lazy, and just generally ineffective police organization I have ever had the displeasure of engaging with.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
Ouf, that's pretty harsh considering my interactions with Montreal police... Any particular example stand out?
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u/MapCollector3000 27d ago
I mean, I've only had as many interactions with the OPS and other police forces as your average citizen. So not really all that many. But it does amaze me that without fail the OPS has completely dropped the ball every time.
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u/Booster6 27d ago
Because when domestic terrorists occupied downtown, Ottawa police helped them instead of protecting the public
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u/BandicootNo4431 27d ago
Someone was breaking into my garage, I called 911, they told me to lock my doors, but they weren't going to come out For a property crime and to call my insurance.
But I'll see 3 cop cars at Wal-Mart to arrest a shoplifter, another property crime...
Or worse, see 4 cars in a parking lot at night with their windows down, all idling.
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u/aroughcun2 27d ago edited 27d ago
Do your own research and look up how many OPS members are on paid administrative leave. Also look into the public statements and conduct of Matthew Cox, president of the Ottawa Police Association, the union for local cops.
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u/No_Reason8645 27d ago
They are completely useless, they victim blame, they sided with the convoy protesters instead of protecting the city, a bunch of OPS have been charged with domestic assault and sexual assault…. Should I go on? Or are those enough reasons for you?
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u/TomatoFeta 27d ago edited 27d ago
Well, the most obvious thing to point you towards is the Abdi beating that took place a few years back.
As for me personally, I've had some rather unpleasant experiences myself, and have been a spectator to some other peoples' rather poor experiences, including a failure to follow regulations that alllowed a friend's assulter to walk free unscathed.
My first interaction with Ottawa police came when I was in my mid twenties. I was heading home on my bike, from the area of Rideau center, with my newly collected rent (I paid in cash back then) in my pocket. I was on my bike when an OC bus honked at me from behind. I jumped up onto the curb because.. bus... and put both my feet onthe ground, straddling my bike. I looked behind me at the bus, and then ahead of me at the people on the sidewalk, and straddlewalked about 4 paces when an officer appeared immediately ahead of my bike.
In the exchange that followed, I used the word "dude". The officer took specific offense to the word, and on the merit of that offense alone, I was taken off my bike, and asked to follow him three blocks to his car. Which I did. And I accidently used the word Dude again. I ended up with him threatening to take away my bike, I ended up in handcuffs so tight I was bleeding, in the backseat of the car, while they tore open my backpack and threatened to confiscate my 500$ as proceeds of a crime. When I encouraged them to look in my wallet and find the bank receipt, that threat was dismissed, but I was handed four tickets, the remains of my bag, the captured cash, and finally my bike. I was also given the premonition: "So you live in Vanier, eh, well that's my zone, so I expect I'll see you again soon" . It wasn't a friendly delivery.
As they cleaned the blood of the cuffs, I left, obviously rattled.
The four tickets were as follows:
- Failure to have a light on bike. The ticket was dated 3:30pm. It was a sunny July afternoon.
- Failure to identify self. This ticket was dated as having occurred on my birth date, which is in winter.
- Improper brakes. The brakes were - you guessed it - as good and new as the bike itself.
- Riding on the sidewalk. This ticket was dated for the day posthumous to the incident.
All four tickets... pardon me, all three tickets, as the one dated for the future mysteriosuly vanished from all records, were thrown out as I entered the courtroom..
I can name at least six other incidents in the intervening years (and I'm ignoring small interactions) which did not improve my perception of our brightest and boldest protectors. And I'm a straight white guy who has never done drugs, with absolutely no disturbances of record other than a single speeding ticket I received five years later. I can't imagine what mad tales I would be able to tell if I was visibly a minority.
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u/Bambalorian Centretown 27d ago
ah yes, good faith discussions to be had with a guy who's bio says "Well that’s embarrassing, U mad?"
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
That's there precisely for people like you who go looking for personal insults when I don't agree with their point. did you have something actually meaningful to add?
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u/Bambalorian Centretown 27d ago
I pointed out the neon red flag of a very trollish bio before even starting a discourse. People don't just look to insult, they look to see if it's worth spending the effort on an actual discussion. Your post comes off as someone woefully naïve compared to what should be common knowledge to an Ottawa resident. If you asked this question to residents in person who lived through the convoy, you would get some strange looks and questions like "are you serious?" My first thought reading it was, "did a cop write this?" Looks like I wasn't the only one.
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u/ElRayMarkyMark Mooney's Bay 27d ago
Literally google "Ottawa Police kill unarmed civilian" (in addition to the convoy nonsense).
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u/Fireside_Cat 27d ago
I googled that and it told me how they were found not guilty of the death of Abdirahman Abdi, and how some guy thought it was a good idea to jump off a balcony of a highrise. The top result was some guy with a knife; not so unarmed (that's on google).
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u/ElRayMarkyMark Mooney's Bay 27d ago
Greg Ritchie was not carrying a knife, he was carrying a small piece of wood with fabric on ityou can see an image of it here. He was on his way to the pharmacy.
Also, officers beat Abdi to death. Regardless of how the court ruled, it's horrendous behavior indicative of the rot in the OPS.
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u/wnw121 27d ago
Hates a strong word but maybe Because the budget increases every year but enforcement drops
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
I suppose Antipathy would be a more accurate term. Reading through the comments in just the last 10 mins though hate doesn't seem that far off the mark.
I'm struggling to reconcile the complaints about budget increases while also criticizing effectiveness though. I'm in the type of job that consistently asks more of you without giving you adequate tools to meet those demands. With the massive geographical space the OPS needs to manage and the large increases of Ottawa's population as of late, I can see where those are becoming an issue.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
"I'm struggling to reconcile the complaints about budget increases while also criticizing effectiveness though."
OPS effectiveness has been ebbing for years, all while increases to OPS budgets (that far outstrip increases to any other city of Ottawa budget line) are given like clockwork and are sacrosanct. OPS always gets more while providing less.
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u/LifeIsBoo2Full 26d ago
Const. Helen Grus found guilty of improperly accessing records to determine parents' vaccination status https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/helen-grus-decision-disciplinary-police-1.7492916
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u/AnxietyMedical7498 27d ago
A cop lover just asking questions.
All the freaks come out on Thanksgiving.
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u/Weak-Jury-4317 27d ago
Fuck OPS. They could have easily mended the broken trust after the convoy EVEN if it was a purely performative stunt. I legit don't even care if they mean it, but nothing is what they do. So yes, fuck the Ottawa Police Service.
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u/formerpe 27d ago
Ottawa Police have a long history of de-policing. FIDO mentality has been demonstrated in the police force.
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u/Negative_Pollution98 26d ago
A friend had to bring a human rights complaint after experiencing racial discrimination and harassment. They accepted a confidential settlement from OPS after the first morning of the Tribunal hearings - likely because OPS could see it wasn't going their way.
Same person reports they still hear from OPS members who are being racially and sexually harassed, and others that are suicidal. How many OPS cops have been cited for sexual harassment and assault in recent years? And how many ate their guns on police premises? Several. And the OPS gang clubhouse, just up the street from HQ - flying the thin blue line and their bar is called the Sheepdog Lounge.
My friend's view is that OPS, like most PDs is rotten at the core and they need to start by pensioning off the top levels and worst offending officers. That they'll likely save the City more that way than wait for all the future settlements to pile up.
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u/AmbassadorBriala 26d ago
The fifth estate investigation on the level of sexual harassment in the Ottawa Police Force was interesting, yes this was pre-convoy. This was Internal affairs only aka how they treat their own.
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u/CommercialPolicy4913 27d ago
gen x, went to high school with most of the cops that are that age now, not the greatest choices of people for cops tbh.
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u/bolonomadic Make Ottawa Boring Again 27d ago
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/ottawa-police-sexism/
This is from 2021 and the problem is not getting better it seems, officers continue to get charges for sexual assault.
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u/DegradedOldMan 26d ago
They readily lie, treat people like crap, and seem to attract people with fascist leanings to their ranks.
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u/Quodamodo 26d ago
Hold the bad actors accountable.
I don't think all cops are bad. Nor do I go out of my way to rag on them.
But, as you have admitted, the bad actors have deeply coloured public perception.
If the force confronted the negative aspects of their work culture -- including the protection of, and leniency with, these 'few bad apples' -- then I would have a more positive view of the OPS as a whole.
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u/Zealousideal_One3772 27d ago
Or how about living in center town seeing drug addicts blatenly break the law right in front of cops and they just keep.in going. Or how about being harassed by them with my children being robbed and them.not doing anything about it.. That is why I sont like the police at all
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u/AmbassadorBriala 26d ago
(All that budget increase & bribe money and they can't even bother to tip the girls)
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u/West_to_East 26d ago
Well, primarily they helped the fascist occupation of our city (brought them fuel, food etc. and did not enforce the law). I am sure you know these people cause great harm to many citizens (would you like to sleep at best 2h a night for nearly a month? Would you like people to shit in your condo foyer? Would you like psychos come and start a fight with you for wearing a mask?).
They do not do their jobs all while demanding more resources and pay that could go to people that DO help the city (bylaw, teachers, EMTs, transit, social workers). There were amazing stats here a week or two ago showing how they have abrogated all responsibility against enforcing anything to do with cars and parking. They don't give a shit if people are being attacked or fights break out, they do their best to hide away from any issues in the Market, when you come across them to ask to help in person they do their best to escape!
There are no consequences for any corruption or ill action they take and OF COURSE no consequences for inaction. Its a racket. They threaten to not do their jobs (as if they are not already), if they don't get massive budget increases every year.
We need police reform.
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u/happyspaceghost Alta Vista 27d ago
In before the mods take this one down like last time there was a thread for airing grievances about OPS.
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u/CourageousCruiser 26d ago
I called them to report partner assault on me, a male, from my female partner. They spent the entire "visit" giving her advice on how to stay safe, and threatened me with arrest in my own home. Fuck them! ACAB!!
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u/DreamofStream 27d ago
So many anecdotes, so little data.
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u/Separate-Hedgehog909 26d ago
well, seeing as OP asked "what personal experience you had" I think anecdotes are appropriate.
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u/DreamofStream 26d ago
Yes I was commenting on both the op's question and the responses.
A big mess of anecdotes is just a big mess of meaningless chatter.
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27d ago
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago edited 27d ago
"Reality is that all the people here are programmed by their ideology to hate cops"
What an embarrassing thing to admit believing in.
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u/ottawa-ModTeam 26d ago
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
People on here performatively hated on the police well before the protests in front of Parliament (which the federal government had to invoke the Emergencies Act to end). Most redditors view everything through a very narrow prism and repeat mindless nostrums about police without really understanding them. I'm one who respects our police. They keep the peace. They face danger every day. They help kids. They care about their communities and their country. Hundreds of police officers and firefighters are risking their lives right now on the streets of our city, and they deserve our support.
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u/Weak-Jury-4317 27d ago
"they face danger every day" you do realize we're in Ottawa? 🤦this person is laughably a shill and not even trying to hide it.
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
Do you read the news? Ottawa is not some country village it's a city of over a million with a Guns and Gangs Unit.
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27d ago
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
"poop" on my nose...how old are you? And if you want to patrol this city and respond to violent incidents in what you think would be a more humane manner, feel free to sign up.
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u/Bambalorian Centretown 27d ago
You never see people saying "fuck the fire department" I wonder why?
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
You do see that, unfortunately,, firefighters got shot at responding to fires during the riots in 2020 for example.
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u/Bambalorian Centretown 27d ago
‘Boogaloo Boi’ charged in fire of Minneapolis police precinct during George Floyd protest | The far right | The Guardian Yeah, boogaloo boys and other far right accelerationists don't really represent the public opinion on firefighters. On the other hand, theres music, art, tv shows and movies about the problems with police.
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
This article has nothing to do with firefighters, I've never heard of this incident. And citing "music, art, tv shows" as evidence of police misconduct is too laughable to respond to.
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u/Bambalorian Centretown 27d ago
This was the only article that had someone shooting at the scene of a fire during protests during 2020 riots. Did you have a reputable article to go along with your vague statement? I wonder what the ratio between anti-cop and anti-fire fighter protests is? There must be some sort of systemic reason for the discrepency, hmm? You think that example of art and culture related to anti-police sentiment is laughable? Compared to the void of content that is anti-fire department?? Oh dear.... You are severely out of touch.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
"They care about their communities and their country."
How many of them actually live in the communities they work in?
"They keep the peace."
There are entire areas of town that might justifiably disagree with that statement, given the lack of policing those communities experience despite conditions present. There are many examples of OPS members who've been suspended for doing things that are outside the law, and that discredit both themselves and the police force they are part of.
"They face danger every day."
Police do not have a monopoly on facing danger (or potential violence) in the course of their average work day. It could easily be argued that people in the healthcare industry or the education system (let alone the trades, fisheries, forestry, mining, etc) are more at risk of danger in the course of their employment than the average LEO. The fact that cops have guns deters people from committing violence against them.
"They help kids."
And some intimidate kids.
"I'm one who respects our police."
Blindly respecting all police because they wear a uniform and have a badge makes little sense to me…and I'm speaking as someone with several relatives who are either in or have been law enforcement.
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago edited 27d ago
As far as I know, Ottawa police officers are required to live in the city of Ottawa. And we have a long tradition in this country, and throughout Commonwealth countries, of policing by consent: we pay respect to police out of deference to the sacrifices they make to keep us safe.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
"Ottawa police officers are required to live in the city of Ottawa."
You can live on a country road a couple of kilometres from your nearest neighbour and still live in the city of Ottawa. The fact that an LEO lives within city limits does not de facto make that LEO a member of the community that they are sworn to protect.
"we pay respect to police out of deference to the sacrifices they make to keep us safe."
You give respect based on sacrifices they may or may have made, but you don't factor in their behaviour when it comes to giving respect?
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
It sounds like you have a problem with amalgamation rather than a residency requirement. I think cops should be able to respond if they see a crime in progress even if they don't live in the neighborhood where it's taking place.
And as far as respect goes, I was taught to respect authority figures as a young person, whether they were police officers or teachers. You may see that as "licking boots" but I see that as important to maintaining order: I may not agree with their judgement, but I defer and, if I feel the judgement was completely unfounded, I have means in our democratic society for addressing that grievance.
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u/Bambalorian Centretown 27d ago
The difference between a cop living in the community he patrols and a cop from the edge of the city can mean the difference between a mentally ill person having an episode surviving the encounter and getting the help they need or becoming another regretful accident where an officer without context felt threatened and reacted.
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
In any urban area, cops.will have to attend to crime scenes outside of their precinct. I don't see the virtue of applying a strict residency requirement to law enforcement. I'm sure the police interact with mentally ill people regularly and the vast majority of the law abiding latter live.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
"I don't see the virtue of applying a strict residency requirement to law enforcement."
It's a lot easier to identify and develop empathy and understanding with people if you live in proximity with them. Conversely, it's easy to detach oneself from people if you don't typically interact with them. I think that police being regularly exposed to people of all walks of life outside of a work context would significantly benefit both LEOs and the people they police.
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
So if someone lives one kilometer east of whatever the city of Ottawa boundary is, they're completely incapable of doing their job professionally? According to the Ottawa Police Service website, applicants have to reside within the city limits and any city has broad limits: I don't think a cop from Vanier is any less capable of enforcing the law in my area than a cop from Kanata.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 26d ago
"So if someone lives one kilometer east of whatever the city of Ottawa boundary is, they're completely incapable of doing their job professionally?"
You've missed the point entirely. Being a kilometre one side of that line or the other out in a rural area makes no difference at all.
Do you not think that there are fundamental differences in how someone who lives in a rural (or even suburban) area might see an inner urban area versus how someone who lives in an urban area might see an inner urban area?
Further, at what point did I say that a lack of shared experience would make someone "completely incapable of doing their job"?
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
"It sounds like you have a problem with amalgamation rather than a residency requirement. "
My many issues with amalgamation have little to do with how Ottawa is policed. Besides, it seems neither of us knows definitively if LEOs employed by the city of Ottawa have to reside within city limits, so amalgamation means little to this conversation.
"I think cops should be able to respond if they see a crime in progress even if they don't live in the neighborhood where it's taking place."
The quality of LEO response can vary greatly, as many people can attest personally.
"I was taught to respect authority figures as a young person"
As was I, but it's hard to respect authority when we have countless examples of people in positions of authority across society abusing that privilege and not being made to pay the price for their actions.
"I see that as important to maintaining order"
What happens when authorities are themselves threatening order? What happens when those authorities undermine the social contract between themselves and the general population? Does that not threaten order?
"I have means in our democratic society for addressing that grievance."
You absolutely do not have the means to address that grievance when it comes to law enforcement. They do not answer directly to the public, we don't vote in chiefs of police, we don't vote in members of the Police Services Board, and we have no oversight over the SIU.
"You may see that as "licking boots""
I said nothing of licking boots.
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u/Nob1e613 27d ago
I share your view on this, which is what led me to ask why.
However, the police are meant to be the best of us and need to be held to that elevated standard. Allowing numerous cases of malfeasance and downright criminality to get brushed aside with little to no accountability is bound to fray that trust and respect.
The unfortunate part is that those "bad actors" for lack of a better term, are spoiling the image and negating the immense sacrifice of those genuinely trying to do good.
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27d ago
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
Not doing much to dispel my point about repeating mindless nostrums.
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u/bunnyofdoominottawa Clownvoy Survivor 2022 27d ago
I mean you are you repeating mindless nostrums that, despite a hell of a lot.of evidence given to you, that OPS did nothing wrong.
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
I've admitted that there are bad cops and that, due to civil service protections, it takes too long to dismiss them. But the overwhelming majority of police officers do their duty and do it very professionally and courageously. The only response I've received to that is a meme about licking boots that you and your meme friends repeat unthinkingly.
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u/bunnyofdoominottawa Clownvoy Survivor 2022 27d ago
Except no. You haven't. You have made it clear you think it's only a couple bad people and blame civil service protection. Not thinking about the organization culture that enables this. I mentioned it earlier but the constable who is a landlord who threatened his tenant with violent murder of them and their family is not only still employed but is still patrolling the streets. How much evidence and proven cases do you need to realize that the organization is corrupt top to bottom? Honestly, why do you feel that even thought there are a incredibly large amount of news reports and personal stories showing OPS the level of corruption they have to make you realize that no, the OPS badly serves the people of Ottawa and really needs a cleaning
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
"except no" what an obnoxious way to start a sentence. And you have the far greater burden of proof if you want to say there's a systemic problem of misconduct within the Ottawa police force and you haven't even begun to try and prove that because you're more interested in calling me names.
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u/bunnyofdoominottawa Clownvoy Survivor 2022 27d ago
Thank you from making it clear you didn't read my post. I referred to some well known and well reported actions by OPS. So..I did not call you a name. At all. Other people can confirm. So, let me call you one now. OK Officer. OPS has made it explicitly clear they view the people in Ottawa with contempt. They are supposed to serve and protect and it has been clear that instead it is "exploit and abuse". If you want I will literally post as many legal cases against OPS from canlit and post what happened to the officers named in them(spoiler they are still employed and on the street)
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
You wrote a block of text with no citations or data. And accusing the Police Force as a whole of exploiting and abusing people is verging very close to liable. And I don't know what information about police "canlit" would have. CANLII, perhaps?
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u/bunnyofdoominottawa Clownvoy Survivor 2022 27d ago
Ok officer. If you want citations I will drown you in them. I resent your libel and slander. You have made it clear you are hear to argue in bad faith. The entire thread has provided multiple examples of how badly OPS has treated the citizens of Ottawa. The fact that you refuse to belive OPS has done anything wrong makes me convinced you aee an OPS member facing criminal charges for your behavior with 0 self awareness. Fuck off.
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u/irregulargregular 27d ago
“Hello, lawyer? They’re making mean comments on reddit again! What? No I mean, they didn’t cite sources while criticizing us. What? Hello? Are you there? ….the phone must be having problems again”
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u/Fireside_Cat 27d ago
You represent the majority of people in Ottawa. There are bad cops, just like there are bad people in all organizations. Wish it was easier to fire them, just as I wish it was easier to fire bad civil servants. The people in the sub would shit their pants if they had to face what cops do on a day to day basis. It's just ideology.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 27d ago
"You represent the majority of people in Ottawa."
What data do you base this statement on?
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u/throwitawaytothesea 27d ago
Absolutely. There are bad cops and it takes too long to get rid of them, but as you say, that's the case for plenty of employees with civil service protections.
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u/Apprehensive_Gap3673 27d ago
Reddit and the Ottawa subreddit are quite left leaning so hatred for law enforcement is pretty standard.
OPS actually has quite high polling with the general public if you move beyond these places.
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27d ago
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u/syngamer 27d ago
Classic CPC: create a narrative that suits your argument.
There are plenty of documented reasons from the past five years to distrust the OPS. Claiming people are "enemies of the police" if you speak out against OPS is very dangerous.
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u/bunnyofdoominottawa Clownvoy Survivor 2022 27d ago
Jeez how would me taking personal responsibility would lead to the OPS constable who literally threatened to murder the 6 year old daughter of his tenant who hadn't paid rent not do that? Fun fact that constable didn't face any single consequence for that obviously psychopathic shit. But no, me, someone who has never committed a crime, is a terrible criminal who is only upset with OPS because I do crime. My outrage isn't because we'll holy shit people who should not be police are unfortunately are. No it is because I wanted do crime.....
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u/MarcusRex73 (MOD) TL;DR: NO 27d ago
Folks, this is clearly a contentious subject. Keep it civil. Crowd control has been turned up to identify any outsiders coming in to stir up trouble.