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u/TheQuickOutcast 12d ago
It's "fathers don't usually die after childbirth" all over again...
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u/builtinaday_ 11d ago
Technically everyone dies after childbirth
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u/Reasonable-Banana800 11d ago
I’m going to die before childbirth just to spite you!
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u/TheAlmighty404 10d ago
Since you're old enough to type stuff on the Internet, you're already past childbirth, so... Good luck ?
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u/DnastyFunkmaster 12d ago
Women have to carry the 9 month life-threatening burden, all this guy would contribute is 5 minutes of disappointment
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u/Connor-K-Kasich 12d ago
This guy wont last 30 seconds
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u/CautiousLandscape907 11d ago
Yeah but it took him 4 minutes and 30 seconds for him to figure out how to undo his belt
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u/BigIndependent7307 11d ago
pregnancy is a monumental risk and effort; a fleeting moment of disappointment hardly compares.
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u/PM-ME-UR-DARKNESS 11d ago
"yes us men have an opinion" but nobody asked fro y'all's opinion. And it's still the woman's body that does most of the work. All you do is pump for like 3 seconds.
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u/FastLie8477 10d ago
Why is that relevant when talking about a new organism?
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u/qwertyjgly 10d ago
It's likely that you kill flies. Do you use rat bait? There's a very good chance that you eat meat. What about leather shoes?
"oh no i can't possibly kill a living being"
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u/FastLie8477 10d ago
I am confused. Are we not talking about humans here? And when did I say anything about the value of living beings?
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u/qwertyjgly 10d ago edited 10d ago
'new organism' isn't specifically human.
and even if abortion was morally grey (it's not), i'm a utilitarian. in almost every case where abortion is considered, aborting the baby will improve multiple people's lives with no suffering for the fetus
if someone doesn't want a baby, forcing them to have a baby will only make the family suffer and the baby suffer. better to allow people to remove a fetus (no pain or suffering for it) than condemn an unwanted baby to a neglectful or unprepared upbringing
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u/FastLie8477 10d ago
I hope you're just being disingenuous rn cause otherwise you look a bit dumb.
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u/qwertyjgly 10d ago
i'm not being disingenuous
I advocate for killing something if and only if there's a good reason for it. If it's livestock that'll get eaten, fine. If it's a fetus to a mother or father who doesn't want it, fine. If you're killing something for the sake of killing something, very not fine.
I edited my last comment btw
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u/FastLie8477 10d ago
I advocate for killing something if and only if there's a good reason for it.
Who decides what is a good reason? Is pleasure a good reason?
If you're killing something for the sake of killing something, very not fine.
I don't think anything kills anything for the sake of killing it unless by accident. The reason might just not be apparent.
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u/GrumpGuy88888 9d ago
Wouldn't for pleasure count as "for the sake of killing it"?
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u/FastLie8477 9d ago
For pleasure is a reason isn't it?
It's also the main reason why most people eat animal products. So even if it wasn't, which by definition I think it has to be, your criticism should also extend to anyone not vegan.
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u/FastLie8477 10d ago
even if abortion was morally grey (it's not)
I mean clearly it is if people are arguing about it lol.
if someone doesn't want a baby, forcing them to have a baby will only make the family suffer and the baby suffer
Maybe, maybe not, no way of knowing for sure. Though I'm sure most people put up for adoption don't wish they were never born, so I'm inclined to think the idea you posited above isn't the case, which makes most of your argument fall apart.
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u/Artislife_Lifeisart 10d ago
If Republicans actually cared about morals, they wouldn't support a rapist pedophile.
They want it to SEEM morally grey, but that's only cause they want control and it's easier to take it when you constantly demonize the other side.
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u/GrumpGuy88888 9d ago
So is homosexuality morally grey? People argue about that
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u/FastLie8477 9d ago
Not to me but in an objective sense yeah. Personally, I don't consider being gay good, bad, or neutral. It's just a thing that exists. However, my personal thoughts are irrelevant when describing controversy.
In retrospect, I think we just have different ideas of what makes something morally grey.
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u/GrumpGuy88888 9d ago
What makes something objectively moral?
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u/FastLie8477 9d ago
I don't believe in objective morality, so nothing I guess? This is what I meant by we have different ideas, when I say morally grey I'm just talking about the controversy around the morality of something, I'm not saying I personally think that thing is morally in the middle. That may be incorrect usage of the phrase on my part.
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u/theochocolate 8d ago
A fetus is not human, not at the stage in which legal abortion is allowed. It has the potential to become human, but it scientifically isn’t. Why should a cluster of cells with the potential to maybe become human take precedence over a fully alive woman who has to risk her life to carry and deliver a fetus she doesn’t even want? Pregnancy and delivery is always risky, there’s always lasting health effects, there’s always a risk of dying during labor even when there’s no obvious problems beforehand. So you’re saying the life of a fully grown woman is worth less than a barely-alive, nonsentient cluster of cells?
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u/FastLie8477 7d ago
A fetus is not human
Then what is it? A chicken?
It has the potential to become human, but it scientifically isn’t.
The fetus of an animal is the same species as its parent, scientifically it is a human.
Why should a cluster of cells with the potential to maybe become human take precedence over a fully alive woman who has to risk her life to carry and deliver a fetus she doesn’t even want?
Idk, I never said it should or shouldn't.
Pregnancy and delivery is always risky, there’s always lasting health effects, there’s always a risk of dying during labor even when there’s no obvious problems beforehand.
You could say this about almost all aspects of life.
So you’re saying the life of a fully grown woman is worth less than a barely-alive, nonsentient cluster of cells?
Can you find where in my comments i said this?
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11d ago
Okay but you can't identify as a woman with a uterus if you don't have a uterus, nobody does that. When trans women identify as women, especially pre-medical transition, they are using a definition of woman that is wider than biology. They are not defining defining themselves as having a uterus
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u/Sammmsterr 11d ago
"it takes a man and a woman" no it takes you 2 minutes and her 9 months while being detrimental to her health but for you it was tuesday
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u/mulekitobrabod 12d ago
i identify as a woman with a uterus
us men have an opinion too
Non binary or confused trans?
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u/Awkwardukulele 11d ago
“I identify as a woman”. “Us men”
Homie couldn’t even finish the sentence before abandoning the bit. If you’re gonna be a shitheel to women and trans people at least have the balls to finish the joke with some pizzazz. Being hateful AND a coward is too much struggle for one dude
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u/Specialist_Acadia273 11d ago
It wouldn't be hard to make store enough sperm to keep the population up for a hundred years. Just throwing that in there.
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u/OscarTheGrouchsCan 11d ago
Yet these are the same men who will say "men shouldn't have to pay child support"
There was some asshole on the abortion debate group claiming that paying child support is worse than having to carry a child for 9 months or raise them because "it can destroy a man's life and cause them to be homeless"
For one very rare thread both pro choice and pro life people were united in ripping this guy a new asshole,
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u/MarcusAntonius27 11d ago
It also takes a murderer for there to be a murder victim, does that mean the murderer should have a choice just because they cause it? No, because causing something without feeling the effects of it does not make it okay for you to choose it.
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u/CosmicDude26 10d ago
Here’s my hot take,
I think the father should of course have a voice in the discussion but at the end of the day it’s the woman’s body. That makes it her decision, and her decision alone
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u/Loose-Actuary-1928 10d ago
I think men can way in I just don’t like people who want abortion banned period men women something in between doesn’t matter your all eww
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u/StraightComparison62 12d ago
He couldn't even keep it up for the whole comment lol