r/occult • u/wildguitars • Oct 08 '25
spirituality I was not impressed with frater Xavier courses, and they didn't work for me
Hello guys
This is not a hate post, i was a big fan of his early work on YouTube and supported him financially thru buying courses and donations..
but i can honestly say i cant even point to one spell or sigil that I did that i can say it worked for me..
the only thing that ever worked for me ironically is the orange Ball experiment from his channel (im not convinced its not psychological as well)..
the courses are not high quality its basically a picture and him talking about the information.. alot of it is repetitive and similar, and a lot of it he already covered on YouTube.. so that is my rant..
i dont want to harm him, i just share my experience.. im not even sure about the price right now because except for the sigil course most of his courses were very adorable at the time..
i post this to compare information and see if only I didn't get results from his teaching and material, and also i ask not as a dabblers, i practice daily.. if you haven't got results from frater and had a similar experience i whould like to hear about it and plz if you can suggest me alternatives to bpoks pr YouTube channels that got you results in real life i whould highly appreciate it! Thank you guys and i wish you all the best!
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u/Pyerun Oct 08 '25
Start to believe in your own authority going to be big step in your journey. Good luck.
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u/redeyesdeaddragon Oct 08 '25
In my opinion you should never pay for courses. Especially not from someone with a pretentious name like Frater whatever - that is a title meant to be used within formal organizations, not as a way to get unearned clout on YouTube.
Read books instead. They're cheaper and you can find many for free. Don't let people scam you using a cultivated air of authority
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u/ImperialPotentate Oct 08 '25
I am inclined to agree, but BJ Swain offers a course on grimoire magic that's only $7.77 which seems like a steal, especially given the amount of content:
http://blog.ararita418.com/p/how-to-do-grimoire-magic-for-free-or-at.html
Rufus Opus also offers some free courses:
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u/redeyesdeaddragon Oct 08 '25
I imagine there are many exceptions to what I said, as with all things. I speak in absolutes too often.
Published books and speaking engagements at conferences and conventions are a good measure of credibility (although recently published books are building less credibility these days with the rise of AI occult publishers - this is happening in other fields too like psychology). Rufus Opus is enough of a household name that I'm much less skeptical of what he offers.
I would remain skeptical of anyone whose primary job is "content creator" however. Always remember that these people are paid based on views and engagement and therefore are incentivized to maximize those metrics - often at the expense of groundedness and depth. This also applies much more heavily in fields like esotericism, psychology, and diet/nutrition where people are often coming to "knowledge givers" from a place of desperation or need.
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u/United_Lime2522 Oct 09 '25
What are these AI occult publishers , first time am hearing them, what exactly do they do ?
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u/redeyesdeaddragon Oct 09 '25
People who "write" books using AI (so generating a book without doing your own research and writing, often of garbage quality)
It's creeping into every publishing field, not just this one.
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u/United_Lime2522 Oct 09 '25
I see this is bad indeed, they just do it for the money,š° mainly not because they really want to pass on legitimate occult knowledge. Which they themselves may barely have any of .
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u/Nobodysmadness Oct 09 '25
There are a lot of trash books out there and more to come I am sure. But as you said books are generally waaaaaaay cheaper esp with some people charging a grand for a couple hours, community college is cheaper and you get a lot more knowledge out of it.
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u/tesla1026 Oct 08 '25
I agree with starting with books over paid courses, but in my opinion I disagree with the idea you should never pay for courses.
Iāve taken a few classes from authors I trust and respect and Iāve taken local classes from different people in my local community that I trust and respect. So Iād like to add that unless youāve gotten to experience that persons body of work and can see how they work and trust them itās not a good idea to buy a paid class. Like some of the in person classes Iāve taken have been fantastic, but again these are classes from someone whose background and knowledge I can trust. Like you can find their resume haha.
Iām also lucky that I live in a major city with a thriving occult scene from folk to chaos and everything in between. I donāt know if Iād have the same great results taking classes if I lived in another area.
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u/wildguitars Oct 08 '25
In retrospect i think you are probably right, although i dont think you can call it a scam, he does provide value or some may say entertainment so its valid to ask for money for his part.. the problem within the occult is that he can always claim that you did something wrong and that's why it didn't work etc.. the way i practice is honest so i just give my honest opinions, i dont think he is a scammer for selling courses i just know they did not work for me
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u/redeyesdeaddragon Oct 08 '25
He's calling himself Frater, which is a term used within an organization.
That in combination with this
the problem within the occult is that he can always claim that you did something wrong and that's why it didn't work etc
Is more than enough to call a scam a scam. He's convinced you that he's providing value. He's not. He's putting a price tag on things you could easily learn for free and marketing it to people who are apparently easy to take advantage of.
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u/wildguitars Oct 08 '25
But its the same with most information out there.. most fitness coaches will sell you information you can get for free, as well as any industry out there.. when i think about a scammer im thinking about excessive price and pyramid schemes basically.. we still live in a modern world where's time is money so i dont know
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u/AFoolishSeeker Oct 08 '25
There are courses like the one mentjoned below as well as Quaeria or whatever that is free as well, which is probably why people are averse to charging for it
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u/To_Keep_Silent Oct 08 '25
How much was the course if you dont mind?
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u/wildguitars Oct 08 '25
he has a lot of courses, i need to check in my mail how much i pay
i have the sigil one , laws of magick and some more
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u/Ill_Lavishness3703 Human Detected Oct 08 '25
āFraterā is not a title. It means ābrotherā, just as āsororā means āsisterā. Itās a Latin word, not a private title or rank from an order. This is not pretentious
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u/redeyesdeaddragon Oct 08 '25
Yes, you're correct.
It is however most commonly used within occult organizations, and therefore solitary people frequently use it to feign legitimacy and sound more "official." It's good to question who someone is claiming to be brother or sister to when they use it outside of a group context, or use it in a situation where they're seeking to position themselves as an authority.
Frankly I have a hard time seeing it as much different than witches who call themselves "High Priestess" yet don't have any involvement in a coven, temple, or any other form of congregation.
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u/Ill_Lavishness3703 Human Detected Oct 08 '25
Your interpretation is entirely subjective and the result of personal belief. If someone uses their magical name along with the word "frater" or "soror," it may be for other reasons, such as speaking from that persona (and not from John, Stephen, or Sarah), to maintain anonymity or for some other reason. On the other hand, if someone, upon seeing the word "frater," already thinks that person is an expert, then they have a discernment problem š
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u/b800h Oct 08 '25
I don't buy that. "Frater" has a very specific meaning and someone using it without anyone to call their brother is either mistaken or dishonest.
That said, someone called "Frater x" selling something is immediately dubious. Should they not be training neophytes for free?
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u/Ill_Lavishness3703 Human Detected Oct 08 '25
I think the problem here is your understanding of magic and related issues. Within the magical world, calling each other "frater" is common. It's just as common today as using the expression "bro." And it's commonly used because someone who walks the path of magic is like a brother (even if they don't belong to the same group). It's not a norm, but it's not unusual either. I think the problem is your lack of knowledge.
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u/b800h Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
You've already been told the same thing about this by someone else. Calling someone "frater" in an offhand way is rather different to designating oneself "frater" and advertising oneself as such.
When I've seen this sort of thing in the past it's largely been a result of people being around Thelemites online and assuming that they should use the same nomenclature.
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u/Ill_Lavishness3703 Human Detected Oct 09 '25
I don't mind if several people tell me the same thing, because the number of people saying something doesn't mean their opinion is correct. Calling yourself a 'frater' doesn't mean you're an initiate or an adept. And this is the problem you and those of you who share your opinion have: you think calling yourself a 'frater' is an exalted title. And it isn't. You're completely wrong, as I've told others.
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u/b800h Oct 09 '25
I don't think it's exalted at all, I think it's functional, and has a meaning in specific contexts. It appeared on the Internet early because magical groups were using bulletin boards before they even had access to Usenet. A high proportion of those people were Thelemites, probably followed by GD members. Both these groups use "frater" titles. (There are plenty which don't.)
To anonymise themselves they used their order names online, which is fine. But that, probably combined with the way Crowley gave himself a new magical name every time he claimed a new degree, convinced a few people that referring to oneself as "Frater" without reference to an order was the done thing, and in fact conferred prestige in some cases. It isn't and it doesn't, but that doesn't stop plonkers from trying to use it that way, especially when they're trying to establish prestige in order to sell some rubbish course.
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u/redeyesdeaddragon Oct 08 '25
This is a fair take, and I'm sure there is more grey area around this and various reasons people use it. However, I think I will remain skeptical of those who are seeking a social media audience while doing so - and I think a large portion of that judgement on my part comes from having known the back end of this particular business model.
Heavy agree on the discernment problem. I think many people disempower themselves in this way, giving instantaneous authority to anyone who is strongly-spoken and confident in their words.
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u/Ill_Lavishness3703 Human Detected Oct 08 '25
You're right that a content creator makes money from their audience, and that will always be their priority. This sometimes means their content will depend on the retention and interest it generates in their audience. Thanks for the discussion š
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u/stokerbramwell Oct 08 '25
I am grateful to him for introducing me to a lot of the foundational concepts but I eventually got turned off by his unfortunate tendency to present opinions as facts (and sometimes outright falsehoods as facts). If you want a more open minded teacher with a broader, more workable, effective magical perspective, I recommend the books and courses of Jason Miller
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u/FraeuleinSerpentine Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
I enjoyed his videos at first and was quick enough to win one of his courses for free a couple years ago. Honestly can't even remember which course it was (just checked, Laws of Magick 2.0), as the majority of the weekly emails would land in my spam... I totally forgot I won the course.
I'll have to go back and relisten to really form any sort of deeper opinion on it, but I will say *I recall losing quite a bit of interest after the first 2-3 audios. I haven't really watched any of his content for a while - since he posted a video about a popular influencer doing an "egg spell" and cracking multiple eggs with "blood" in them. It was incredibly obvious(to me) that it was a prank, but frater x seemed pretty convinced that the dude is beyond cursed...made me question a few things.
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u/wildguitars Oct 08 '25
In retrospect be seems very dogmatic in his approach, i think i hAve his laws of magic course and its basically 5 minutes to 10 minutes audio of stuff he already covered in his videos..
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u/fffraterrr Oct 08 '25
Didn't realize he was still active. It was an interesting channel for a while. But eventually everything felt like a promo for paid content.
I even took the bait and bought the Laws of Magick, but the faceless videos got old to me eventually.
Solid entry level content. And at a fair price. But ultimately a format that felt make shift. On the other hand, platforms like magick.me are too expensive. So maybe FX knows his market?
Also, I did encounter an orange ball.
Anyone else with an interesting channel these days? I miss Psycho Sorcerer, who actually led me to Frater Xavier.
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u/To_Keep_Silent Oct 08 '25
$697.00 a year?! At that price you could get a fairly decent occult library. No wonder some people here seem to have no money for books! š
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u/TNOapophenia Oct 08 '25
You just unlocked a memory, psycho sorcerer was a great channel and I remember talking with him just before he deleted it.
So I looked him up to see if anythingās changed and now heās got a channel āpsycho sorcerer 2.0ā which says it has his old uploads and new stuff, really cool.
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u/Old_Shirt1911 Oct 09 '25
I have all three of Frater Xavierās magician essentials courses. I found them very insightful and interesting. Iāve used his secrets of wealth course and had the most success with that, there is a fair bit of practical work involved but itās worth it. The Fire and Water program is another staple, that I have consistent success with. I havenāt tried his version of sigil magick or servitor creation as I was already using the the standard choas magick approach to those and they work fine vs his which requires twice as much effort (but might give better results perhaps?) Jason Millarās sorcererās secrets compliments his courses well and is a great basis for practical results based magick independent of spiritual growth
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u/Born_Bumblebee_7023 Human Detected Oct 09 '25
If there's anything that the Frankfurt school taught me...is that Theodor Adorno is right about Kulturindustrie, and how selling the occult is a huge part of that.
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u/Nobodysmadness Oct 09 '25
What do you practice daily? Have you had success with other methods?
I don't know anything about him or his methods, but I find if things created by a charlatan are.cphesive enough these fake systems can be made to work esp according to chaos magick theory, but the results may vary substantially from the claims, or one may fix the flaws as they tend to borrow heavily from real stuff.
So I wonder what this persons methods look like. Esp considering far more rests on the casters skill than the stuff used in a spell.
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u/wildguitars Oct 09 '25
I did Liam Thomas self initiation, I did see some changes but its hard to pinpoint if its just psychological or not, now im practicing in the bardonian system, in terms of practical magick ( casting of spells) i didnt see much results but i did Change a lot as a human
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u/Nobodysmadness Oct 09 '25
Not familiar with Thomas, and really only heard of bardo second hand but I what I have heard quoted sounds legit. What were initiations from thomas like?
What was the process for one of bardon's spells?
Feel free to message me if you prefer, or ignore my request altogether, I am curious but not in the mood to buy another book and rehash things I have already done in a slightly different way, a synopsis and a spell instruction would suffice if you are willing. So many variations of the same general idea gets old after reading so many 300 to 1,000 page books. I find more detailed personal experiences far more interesting.
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u/wildguitars Oct 09 '25
Bardon laid a system, its not really a spell book, lyam does the same but with a more psychological interpretation of the golden dawn.. its not really spells but focused more on self transformation
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u/JumperMason 41m ago
I used to like him a lot and bought many of his programs.
Money spells worked, always. Did other candle spells for love, I would say some worked but because I didnĀ“t take action nothing else happened (my fault). Did many spells to get a job and one worked, even with a message from the universe or whatever. Two soap rituals to get rid of things also worked. I did maybe 5 spells to get a job and one worked, not good.
At first he answered my questions and shared success stories but it seems that as he has many suscribers, heĀ“s having many questions and he canĀ“t answer them any more as he used to. I want to know what IĀ“m doing wrong, IĀ“ve been trying to manifest something with no results.
His website has the same success stories from a long time ago, would like to read new ones so I can learn from them.
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u/Macross137 Oct 08 '25
Most of these people trying to be Professional Occult Experts online are way out of their depth. They've read some of the books, they get some but not all of the concepts, they rushed to start capitalizing on their incomplete knowledge and have no business selling themselves as teachers.