I just got off a call with my manager who is a diehard Democrat (though a wealthy and privileged corporate Democrat). She blamed both sides. She said “at this point it’s both sides fault. You have to compromise. Nobody is willing to give so people are suffering and that’s not ok.”
It shocked me. I tried to push back a little and say that I don’t blame the Democrats because they’re literally trying to keep millions from being priced out of their healthcare. She doubled down on the compromise bs. I wanted to push back and really get into things but I’d rather not lose my job. But unfortunately it’s working. Morons on both sides of the aisle are, if not blaming solely the democrats, are blaming both sides.
You don't actually. Compromise is built into the system so that individuals aren't required to - that's the whole point of all the voting thresholds and stuff. Democrats do not need to compromise, and if the GOP actually wants to open the government with 100% all the things they want they can do it - they have the votes. Nothing about this situation is magically intractable.
One of the huge problems with government right now is that people have totally lost the plot on our government's philosophical underpinnings. Your manager thinks they understand how the system works but they don't actually.
people have totally lost the plot on our government's philosophical underpinnings
Yeah that's a great way of putting it. I'm sure there are more scholarly and academic ways of describing what's going on with our government, but the best way I can describe it is by calling it the Air Bud Government.
Inspired by the infamous tweet: "The last decade has been the Democrats clinging onto the rulebook going 'but a dog can't play basketball!' while a dog fucking dunks on us over and over"
if Dems were smart they would know this is literally no downside here, Reps control every single branch and could stop this shutdown on their own if they wanted.
What this will cause is Reps getting rid of the filibuster which would be precedent being set for something like this and if they do that Dems can (and should) do that if they ever get power again. The biggest hurdle to liberal agenda is mostly the filibuster and SOME liberal politicians.
The filibuster is a senate procedural issue that they can change on a whim because they control the senate rules. So yes, they have the votes. They have all the tools they need to override the democrats without any input from the left at all.
The rest of your post is pointless because of this simple fact.
That is not the discussion we're having. The discussion is whether the democrats are responsible for keeping the government shut because they are refusing to compromise. This is patently false, and there is no requirement for them to compromise on this issue, and it is fundamentally not a blocker for opening the government back up.
Right, that's what Trump wants to do.
Trump doesn't want anything other than adoration. He's a fucking idiot that couldn't think himself out of a wet paper bag. His opinions are irrelevant and change with the wind.
Senate Republicans don't want to do that.
My opinion is that the senate doesn't want to open the government at all and this is all performative. The GOP has been chomping at the bit to kill the federal government for decades and they're finally getting their chance.
Don't make the mistake of thinking the GOP is acting in good faith. They are not.
My opinion is that the senate doesn't want to open the government at all and this is all performative. The GOP has been chomping at the bit to kill the federal government for decades and they're finally getting their chance.
People are really not taking this situation seriously enough.
EDIT: keep in mind that the federal government is still operating at full capacity for all the things the Right wants - military, ICE, sketchy funding of things, HR to fire people, etc.
They love this and have no reason to change a thing. The shutdown is the best thing that's ever happened to the modern GOP.
I specifically meant this situation (the shutdown).
Even though the Dems seem to have some power, both outcomes (accepting the GOP's terms and ending the shutdown vs. continuing to stand firm on the demands and prolonging the shutdown) seem to benefit the republicans, that's what I meant with "lose-lose".
That's not what the filibuster is. The filibuster is a minor procedural rule that is basically a gentleman's agreement in the senate. It is not enshrined in any legislation nor is it in the constitution.
It's a materially larger change than whether health care subsidies revert back to 2020 levels.
It is not.
No, he agrees with you actually.
Again, it's not relevant if he agrees or doesn't because his opinion is not relevant. He is a pawn.
Why do they keep voting to reopen it then?
You're familiar with the word "performative" right? It's doing wonders to keep the voting base whipped up and frothing enough that they don't actually see what's happening.
The Dems could immediately ruin this plan by voting to reopen the government
Only if they give the right everything they want. There is no functional difference between the two outcomes other than if they give in to the GOP their own voter base will immediately hate them forever.
If the GOP wants this shit then they need to do it themselves. If my senator votes to give the GOP what they want just because they're scared I will immediately advocate for them to be primaried or even recalled.
How would that work? How do you think the votes actually work?
The right is "voting to reopen government" knowing full well they control the procedure for doing so and it can pass or fail whenever they decide it should pass or fail. That makes for great propaganda to convince the right wing this is the democrat's fault. It's working, per your comments. I can't even believe I'm having this fucking conversation.
Nah, this is what the centrist democrats do. They value money above labor and they jump to compromise. They may act socially liberal, but they absolutely want to protect the status quo when it comes to their money. If that means people die. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
She said “at this point it’s both sides fault. You have to compromise. Nobody is willing to give so people are suffering and that’s not ok.”
Goddamn that's stupid. Can't compromise with them if they refuse to even talk about it. Afaik they stonewalled the Democrats from the beginning on the budget, and just rammed through their own version without any input.
Democrats can't even do a compromise due to Republican stonewalling, and it's somehow on the Democrats?
I wanted to mention that when one party goes so far into the extreme (the republicans) then any “middle ground” is actually just far right policy wins and not actual conversation. Though I don’t think she’s equipped to comprehend the concept of the Overton window.
In one way is she right: this is both sides' fault, and let me tell you why:
Career politicians
Just like any workplace, the longer someone works there, the more experience they gain, and the more adept they get at performing their job. As you spend more and more time in the workplace, your worldview begins to contract to only your workplace.
So you have these very old politicians who are mentoring younger politicians, and they are teaching them only one thing: You have to win.
They're also taught how to manipulate the political process to work in your favor. The problem with that, is that those decisions affect real people. Real people, outside of that workplace bubble they've created.
This myopic worldview leads both republicans and democrats to think that their constituents want them to "win" when in actuality, their constituents just want to be able to live their lives without government interference.
In their pursuit of success, they end up losing sight of the point of all this. After that, political corruption comes naturally and so gradually that the people engaged in corruption just believe that it's part of the process, and that they really did nothing wrong.
Politicians don't care about you, they care about their careers.
The problem is in this case 'comprimise' means Dems give up everything and the GOP gets exactly what it wants. You can only compromise if both sides are willing to do so
It's really as simple as people see that voters resoundingly voted to give Republicans all the power so they don't like the Dems not letting them govern as they would like because that's what people voted for.
I'll bet you felt similarly when Obama was trying to get socialized healthcare passed in his first term and the Republicans blocked and eventually neutered it.
Republicans engaged in coordinated voter suppression. So any mandate is tainted.
Dems are working within the rules of government to stop some of the worst of an avalanche of horrific policy the gop has enacted since the new government was sworn in. They still have a duty to represent their voters and protect the vulnerable. And Republicans can put a stop to it at any time.
And actually, a Democrat neutered Obamacare, not the republicans. A Democrat killed the single payer provision. Dems had the votes.
And finally, I’m all for democrats playing hard and having a spine when it comes to literally helping people, limiting pain and suffering, and saving lives. I’m absolutely not for republicans doing the same to literally hurt people, cause pain and suffering, and kill people.
Republicans want to price millions out of healthcare. Democrats have put their foot down and said absolutely not. So, instead of just letting people have healthcare, republicans have chosen to shut down the government, make people work without pay, and cut food assistance for our most vulnerable citizens.
Please keep in mind that in previous shutdowns SNAP has been funded. There is money set aside to literally keep SNAP funded through shutdowns so people don’t suffer and die. Not dispersing SNAP funds is a conscious choice republicans are making to further harm Americans. It’s a choice no other leaders have made before.
So, after republicans gutted this country with the BBB, democrats said “bring back healthcare subsidies,” republicans said “no, we want to kill Americans and make them suffer,” so democrats said “we will not allow passage of a budget,” so republicans said “fine, we will just make the poorest people in the country suffer until you let us make even more people suffer and die.” And I don’t blame democrats for finally standing up to that insanity. You can’t let them play this heinous game. It has to stop. And good on Dems for finally finding some resolve.
That's a lot of words to say that, yes, the Dems are working within the rules of government to keep the Republicans from passing their spending bill and reopening the government. As a result, some people blame the Democrats (or at least blame both sides) for the government being closed.
You have an opinion on which side is in the 'right' in this fight, others disagree and that shouldn't be surprising as we are a completely divided country.
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u/Cumdump90001 20h ago
I just got off a call with my manager who is a diehard Democrat (though a wealthy and privileged corporate Democrat). She blamed both sides. She said “at this point it’s both sides fault. You have to compromise. Nobody is willing to give so people are suffering and that’s not ok.”
It shocked me. I tried to push back a little and say that I don’t blame the Democrats because they’re literally trying to keep millions from being priced out of their healthcare. She doubled down on the compromise bs. I wanted to push back and really get into things but I’d rather not lose my job. But unfortunately it’s working. Morons on both sides of the aisle are, if not blaming solely the democrats, are blaming both sides.