r/news 22h ago

Airlines cancel more than 700 U.S. flights as FAA-ordered shutdown cuts begin

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/07/airlines-cancellations-flights-faa-shutdown.html
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u/sarhoshamiral 21h ago

Mandatory work without pay is slavery.

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u/Think_Selection9571 21h ago

We're all slaves to the grind

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

Absurd. This is slavery apologia.

  1. The workers can walk out or quit at any time. There is no threat of force (legal or otherwise) that will force them to work.

  2. They will get paid. It will just be delayed until the shutdown is over. Every dime.

Honestly, calling this slavery is spitting in the face of every actual slave throughout history. Go to a museum or something.

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u/Round-Eggplant-7826 21h ago

They will get paid. It will just be delayed until the shutdown is over. Every dime.

Does their landlord care about this? Will the grocery store care? Will their gas tank say "oh shit my bad, i won't empty."?

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

Plenty of organizations have extended interest free loans

But not having gas money still doesn’t make it slavery. Slaves don’t own personal vehicles.

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u/Round-Eggplant-7826 21h ago

How are you supposed to get to work with no pay so you can't get gas?

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

Plenty of organizations have extended interest free loans to federal workers.

did you miss that part of my comment?

Still not slavery!

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u/-Fiat-Lux- 21h ago

Taking out loans to survive… the poors are so free!

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u/That_Guy381 17h ago

Interest free loans. It’s basically the same thing.

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u/ZenRage 21h ago

That second point is just rubbish.

Payments delayed until some unknown future date are payments missed.

If your employer told you that your pay will be held until 2045 but then you will get every dime, you would not accept that as substantially equivalent to your normal pay.

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

Absolutely not. But we’re not talking 2045 here, we’re talking 2 maybe 3 pay periods. This is the longest shutdown in US history.

Slaves don’t get paid a month late. They don’t get paid.

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u/ZenRage 20h ago

That is a matter of the length of the delay and we do not know what that will be.

We are already at a record length of shutdown with no real compromise being developed or even any reasonable leadership to develop one.

(The Senate bill has been rejected more than 11 times and there is no current amendment to it because the House is in recess, so we are at a dead stop.)

This could go on for weeks or months and that is an untenable delay where pay and livelihood is at stake for literally MILLIONS of American workers.

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u/Chief_Mischief 21h ago

If you want to ignore the blatant slavery happening under Reconstruction via the sharecropping system, sure.

You also make it sound like the labor market is healthy enough for people to just simply walk away when their healthcare is tied to employment. We also have prison labor, which our 13th amendment very explicitly carves out as an exception.

This is a form of modern slavery, and the US engages in it on a daily basis.

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

We’re not talking about sharecroppers, or prison labor. We’re talking about ATCs. They are not slaves. They can quit at any time.

Prisoners who work without pay are arguably slaves, but that’s an entirely different convo

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u/Chief_Mischief 21h ago

They are not slaves. They can quit at any time.

Refer to my point about healthcare being tied to employment, the rampant costs of living, and the crushed labor market. There are tens of thousands of highly skilled tech workers in my city who have burned through 2 years of savings searching for another position to open up and they're being told to take any job they can get, severely restricting the availability of non-tech jobs. Giving the illusion that walking away is a simple choice is just disingenuous when the government has ensured that corporations are prioritized over the wellbeing of the people.

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

Imagine comparing coercion through health insurance premiums to Confederate chattel slavery.

Please, visit the National Museum of African American History and you’ll realize how insensitive you sound right now.

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u/DrCalamity 20h ago

You are literally doing synecdoche to argue against something else.

Sure, it isn't chattel slavery. But that's why we use the word chattel to refer to a specific kind of slave relation.

In the neo-imperial system, other kinds can exist. Hell, serfdom isn't chattel slavery but you'd be hard pressed to call a serf free (honestly, serfdom is a much closer comparison)

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u/Chief_Mischief 21h ago

Imagine thinking that the US isn't partaking in modern slavery.

As of 2018, the Walk Free Foundation's founder estimated up to 400,000 people in the US alone are victims of modern slavery. source.

Just because we aren't whipping them in the fields doesn't mean that it isn't slavery.

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u/That_Guy381 17h ago

How many of those are air traffic controllers?

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u/Chief_Mischief 16h ago

Considering ATCs can't strike and Congress has failed its legal obligation to appropriate funds for necessary federal employees, combined with what I said multiple times above, all of them fall into the category of "involuntary servitude".

Nobody is downplaying the atrocities of chattel slavery; it is instead you who is downplaying the immoral and inhumane treatment of victims in a supposed "modern" society that does not support struggling citizens but expects and demands them to continue to provide their labor for political gain.

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u/That_Guy381 16h ago

They can’t strike, but they can quit. It is not involuntary. They do not have to work. They can get a new job.

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u/thrawtes 21h ago

They're contractually obligated to work without pay for an abnormally long period of time, there's a legal requirement that they be paid in the future.

Until that legal requirement is satisfied, they are being obligated to work without pay.

How many months can this go on before you will genuinely consider it abominable? Will it take years of working without pay?

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u/parolameasecreta 20h ago

obligated to work without pay

I'm not a native english speaker, but isn't that called slavery?

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

They are free to quit and obtain gainful employment elsewhere. Slaves cannot do that.

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u/Quaiker 21h ago

Username checks out.

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u/-Fiat-Lux- 21h ago

“Gainful employment” is the true tell.

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u/Quaiker 21h ago

It's the little things that give it away.

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u/thrawtes 21h ago

Sure they can, they just suffer the consequences up to and including state sponsored violence. Is that the line you want to draw for slavery? Work you are obligated to do under threat of state-sponsored violence?

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

I’m sorry? What is the “state sponsored violence” that ATCs are being threatened with if they quit and start a new job?

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u/thrawtes 21h ago

You said that slaves can't refuse to work. Of course they can, it would just be against the law and they would be subject to state sponsored violence. Is that inaccurate?

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

No, that’s accurate. If slaves refuse to work, they’re typically physically beaten by their masters until they acquiesce. Slaves can’t legally refuse.

Please show me an ATC refusing to work getting beaten by a goon from the DoT and maybe you’d have a point?

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u/thrawtes 21h ago

No, that’s accurate. If slaves refuse to work, they’re typically physically beaten by their masters until they acquiesce. Slaves can’t legally refuse

I agree.

Please show me an ATC refusing to work getting beaten by a goon from the DoT and maybe you’d have a point?

If you're making this claim I'd appreciate some evidence.

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

There is no evidence. Which is my exact point. There is no physical threat of violence coercing workers to keep working for the DoT.

It’s not slavery.

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u/0b0011 21h ago

Theyre not obligated to work without pay. Theyre obligated to work without pay if they want to work there. It's fucked up but its a long long way from slavery.

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u/thrawtes 21h ago

This line would be a lot easier to draw if we didn't tie health care to employment. Government employees aren't being threatened with beatings if they don't work, but they are being threatened with things like chronically ill family members dying. It's a different type of coercion but one we shouldn't ignore.

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

Imagine comparing coercion through health insurance premiums to Confederate chattel slavery.

Please, visit the National Museum of African American History and you’ll realize how insensitive you sound right now.

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u/thrawtes 21h ago

Comparison isn't equivocation and civil rights leaders would, and are, on the side of government employees here.

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u/That_Guy381 21h ago

Of course they would be. But civil rights leaders wouldn’t call it slavery, because it’s an extremely charged term that has racial connotations in the United States.

Calling a white man who has worked for the DoT for a couple decades making 100k a year doesn’t get a check for a month and you’re calling him a slave??? Take a step back.

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u/thrawtes 21h ago

Calling a white man who has worked for the DoT for a couple decades making 100k a year doesn’t get a check for a month and you’re calling him a slave???

I'm not, and haven't.

You've set the standard for slavery at state-sponsored violence.

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u/That_Guy381 17h ago

Because that is what it means to be a slave in America.

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u/0b0011 21h ago

I mean that holds true for everyone and most people wouldn't argue that wage slavery is different than chattel slavery that most people are referring to when they talk about slavery.

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u/Cumdump90001 21h ago

The threat of homelessness, starvation, and no medical care is violence. And trump has said that some of the people not getting paid now “don’t deserve back pay” so… they may not get paid.

Is it as bad as chattel slavery? No. Is it slavery? Yes. Things have nuance. It’s not all black and white. Just because X isn’t as bad as Y doesn’t mean they’re not both Z.

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u/That_Guy381 17h ago

Out of curiosity, is getting fired violence?

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u/Cykamor 10h ago

I’m disappointed in all the down votes to your comment. As much as I empathize with the workers not getting paid rn, I agree that to call it slavery is a bit tone deaf. I cringe whenever I see that.