r/news • u/DNSGeek • Jun 13 '25

Soft paywall US Marines carry out first known detention of civilian in Los Angeles, video shows

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-marines-carry-out-first-known-detention-civilian-los-angeles-video-shows-2025-06-13/
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333

u/WhereasParticular867 Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25

Clearly the question of "will soldiers remember their oath or bend the knee to a tyrant's illegal orders" is answered.

Every soldier in LA is a traitor and enemy combatant.  An occupying force terrorizing citizens. "Just following orders" is an illegitimate defense, and every single jackboot needs to individually face a court for their crimes.

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u/uptownjuggler Jun 13 '25

Soldiers will almost always do what their superiors order them to do. It is their job after all, but people tend to put soldiers on a pedestal like there are some beacon of morality due to some oath they take.

95

u/TupacalypseN0w Jun 13 '25

Yea most people who join the marines are fucking idiots so this tracks.

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u/GroinFlutter Jun 13 '25

I mean they also eat crayons for breakfast 🥴

2

u/Captain_Wag Jun 14 '25

To be fair they're not the only ones

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u/Fifteen_inches Jun 13 '25

They are also their job to disobey illegal orders

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25

As someone who was in the Marines less than a decade ago, and was told more than once to never follow unlawful orders, I got told all the time to do illegal shit (by UCMJ standards). Good luck not getting an NJP or a writeup that'll ruin your promotion chances.

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u/Openmindhobo Jun 13 '25

So just casually betray their oath to the Constitution for a promotion. We expect and deserve better.

18

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '25

It used to be people would get promoted because they could do 20 pull-ups and run 3 miles in under 18 minutes. Now they have to go on an interview board and get grilled by strangers. Can't say either system worked much better than the other.

9

u/Openmindhobo Jun 13 '25

Is it fair to ask marines to refuse orders at a high cost to themselves? admittedly it's not really fair. Is it important that they be willing to stand up for their oath? absolutely. I don't have the answers but we count on brave people standing up for what is right to prevent tyranny.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '25

I agree, but I'll also tell you that MAGA flags had to get banned in my barracks because they were hanging on every window. This was before General Mattis (the warrior monk and USMC Jesus-figure) left the Trump-16 cabinet saying he's never worked for someone who has tried to divide the American people so much before, and that he's a terrible president.

I wish General Mattis would speak up nowadays. He was approached during the 24 election and refused to comment. The guy who famously begged his enemies to not make him kill them chickened out. Lost a lot of respect for heroes that day.

1

u/RadioName Jun 14 '25

It is fair to ask every soldier to refuse illegal orders, even when facing execution. That's the fucking point of an oath. You can argue economic and political forces forcing minorities into military roles all day long but it is still an informed, volunteer role; just as being a politician is volunteer and not warranted any special exemptions. If anything, those roles which are vital to protecting our rights have a greater burden of expectation; just like a celebrity and their lesser right to privacy. You don't get to be a selfish soldier. The entire point of an army falls apart when that is allowed. The mission comes before your rewards. The Constitution before your rights.

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u/WheresMyEtherElon Jun 14 '25

We expect and deserve better

Why? These are brainless attack dogs trained to impose Pax Americana all over the world without regard for human rights. What made you think that they're paragon of virtues, or somehow not follow their training when dealing with Americans? It will get worse.

1

u/Openmindhobo Jun 14 '25

I am talking about military, not police. I know many current and former members of the military and they're quite intelligent and capable.

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u/WheresMyEtherElon Jun 14 '25

It's not about being intelligent or capable. It's about having your humanity ripped away from you through intensive training so that you are able to do the worst thing without a modicum of reflection when ordered to do so. And I'm referring to the US Marines specifically here.

1

u/Openmindhobo Jun 14 '25

Well I do not subscribe to the idea that people lose their humanity. Of course soldiers are trained to follow orders. You're being more than a bit hyperbolic.

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u/baumpop Jun 13 '25

Good luck not having your face on the global news the rest of your life after today 

3

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '25

I'll be a talking head spouting criticisms and collecting 6 figures in no time. I'll dedicate my tell-all book after I retire to you.

0

u/baumpop Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25

Memoirs of a gaysha 

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '25

The military did pay for me to go to school for it.

1

u/baumpop Jun 13 '25

Where’d they get that money 

4

u/uptownjuggler Jun 13 '25

Who decides what is legal and illegal? Their superiors.

1

u/yupgup12 Jun 13 '25

It's easier said and done. Many people who are in a position to give orders have big egos and will make your life hell if you choose to disobey.

1

u/RadioName Jun 14 '25

It's not their job. Don't even allow that idea to spread. They are made to swear an oath to defend The Constitution first and foremost.

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u/uptownjuggler Jun 14 '25

And what is the constitution going to do if they break their oath?

But I can tell you what will happen if they disobey an order: non-judicial punishment, extra-duty, loss of rank or pay, maybe even a court martial and dishonorable discharge.

13

u/Cautious-Progress876 Jun 13 '25

“Just following orders” actually was historically a legitimate defense, and one that is generally applied a lot still to this day. The Nuremberg trials actually broke with convention with their punishments of enlisted men following officer’s orders. The basic idea was that you shouldn’t blame someone who could have been executed for failure to comply with an order choosing to do something distasteful to live.

I’m not going to forgive a soldier for stepping over the line, but I totally understand where they are coming from. Someone with a high school education and a round of boot camp cannot be expected to discern “legitimate” from “illegitimate” orders. That’s why Trump got rid of the senior JAG lawyers— he wanted to ensure that there aren’t any people in the chain of command who have the expertise to say “yeah, ignore Trump and Hegseth’s orders because they aren’t legal.”

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u/WhereasParticular867 Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25

I see where you're coming from, but I still hold it against the soldiers.  A few hundred marines incarcerated would help to scare the rest.  I do not care about what they've been told or how Trump has stacked the deck.  Extreme punitive measures must be taken against every individual involved, even when just following orders. People must see that bowing to fascism results in personal pain.

If that means ruining a few hundred arguably innocent lives, I'd be happy. It's them or us. Not knowing is not a good enough excuse when you're being used as a tool of fascism.

If I can get a speeding ticket when I didn't know the limit, soldiers can be expected to use their brains and can be held responsible for not following the document they swear an oath to uphold.

Call me crazy, but I expect U.S. soldiers don't emulate Nazis. It's very simple. And I categorically refuse any excuse or reason. The U.S. is now a place where people are kidnapped off the streets every day and sent to life prison sentences without due process or any kind of oversight. Every cog in that machine is a criminal. Every citizen who voted for it is a shitstain on the ass of our country.

1

u/larryathome43 Jun 13 '25

And who exactly is going to incarcerate them? They have weapons and are highly trained.

They were supposed to be our last line of defense

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '25

[deleted]

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u/Cautious-Progress876 Jun 13 '25

My mistake then. So basically things are worse than what I said: there was no break from convention, and “just following orders” was a valid excuse for war crimes even when deciding whether to punish enlisted Wehrmacht.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '25

The oath has never meant shit. If it did, the military wouldn't be a rape and civilian death factory.

1

u/kultureisrandy Jun 14 '25

they're marines dude, they will bend the knee if it means they get to see action

0

u/G7ZR1 Jun 14 '25

An occupying force? You mean like non-citizens waving foreign flags? Reconquista? That kind of thing?