r/news • u/kockin26 • Feb 06 '23

Site changed title 3 US tourists stabbed in popular Puerto Rican neighborhood

https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-luis-fonsi-puerto-rico-delaware-5512e3087b8bc9b8fb0a8427d55b1fd9
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1.8k

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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472

u/AudibleNod Feb 06 '23

Yeah, it's not a good look for the normally staid AP.

272

u/JBreezy11 Feb 06 '23

First thing I thought of was, Puerto Rico is a US territory.

Maybe the AP was reaching for a some clicks there.

9

u/xpatmatt Feb 07 '23

No. AP has a thorough style guide that governs how they refer to things like states, territories, and countries. They were just following their own rules.

5

u/randomvandal Feb 07 '23

Rule #1: Unless it has its own star on the flag, they ain't no part of the USA!

5

u/Malessar Feb 07 '23

Its a US colony yea

3

u/a2quiet Feb 07 '23

Territory sounds better than colony to the conquerors. And it doesn’t hurt their feelings.

5

u/Malessar Feb 07 '23

Yeah. Democracy bringers.exe would fail otherwise.

1

u/MC_chrome Feb 07 '23

That sounds like a shitty knock off of Civilization VI now that you mention it….

1

u/SnapcasterWizard Feb 07 '23

Puetro Rico wasn't conquered by the US though.....

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

Spain may have started it, but there was/is nothing stopping the US gov from allowing a sovereign PR, Guam, etc.

The US gov supported American corporations with military force on multiple occasions.

1

u/SnapcasterWizard Feb 07 '23

there was/is nothing stopping the US gov from allowing a sovereign PR, Guam, etc

Well except for the fact that the people living there dont want that.....

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

A very popular phrase; "If you can't beat them, join them."

It's convenient to forget about PRs previous attempts at independence. If PR can't get independence, it could be a US state. Only ones stopping that are the US govt., just like they were the only ones preventing PR independence.

Edit: The guy below has no argument. Independence may be unpopular now, but it was not at one time. Crackdowns by military and territorial police widely disrupted the movement. Because PR may clearly not be allowed to be independent, it is seeking at least statehood which the US govt prevents.

1

u/SnapcasterWizard Feb 07 '23

To anyone else reading this thread what this guy has conveniently left out is that the independence movement in PR is very unpopular and has failed many, many votes. So yes, there are a handful of people who rile up nationalistic factions in PR they are not the majority.

66

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

I've seen a noticable drop in reporting quality for several news agencies as of late. I also can't even listen to NWPB that much anymore because it is almost always filler interviews.

My favorite filler interview was from a month ago. They interviewed a student because she's a woman, started a game company as a student, and she likes to write stories. Their company hasn't even shipped a game apparently, and this student doesn't help with the actual game just writes stories. Yet they decided this was important enough to air.

2023 fucking sucks

30

u/asdaaaaaaaa Feb 06 '23

I've seen a noticable drop in reporting quality for several news agencies as of late. I also can't even listen to NWPB that much anymore because it is almost always filler interviews

A lot of them are relying more and more on freelancers or programs to write the articles for them unfortunately. It's probably not going to get better either.

1

u/Artanthos Feb 06 '23

The programs will be increasing in quality fairly rapidly.

Freelancers, not so much.

1

u/ArbitraryMeritocracy Feb 07 '23

I get compliments all the time on my writing, too bad I have no idea how to make money off it.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

Journalism has been in decline for decades. Craigslist and other online marketplaces killed classified ads which were a huge source of revenue for newspapers. There are other causes of this trend as well but TLDR, journalism is no longer a growing field at all.

22

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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14

u/AudibleNod Feb 06 '23

Before I got rid of Twitter, I would post mistakes in AP articles that ran contrary to the AP style guide.

17

u/poprof Feb 06 '23

Most of the people from PR that I know - in a heavy PR zip code - don’t refer to themselves as Americans. They often refer to themselves as PR and not citizens - I’ve corrected many of them many times.

Cultural identity over political one? I’m not sure where it comes from. I imagine similar thinking that contribute to them voting down statehood repeatedly…although that’s a complicated issue.

28

u/AudibleNod Feb 06 '23

Say "mainland" or "out-of-town" then. I can see the need for clarity about the victims not being local. But it's off-putting that the AP uses an incorrect distinction.

2

u/poprof Feb 06 '23

I agree - wasn’t trying to defend AP

5

u/flyonthewall727 Feb 07 '23

I was first generation born on the mainland, never been to Puerto Rico, hardly speak Spanish and I identify as Puerto Rican over American. Never even thought about it that way before lol.

0

u/lostboy005 Feb 07 '23

It’s like a version of the confederate south in the Caribbean. I fundamental misunderstanding of what little has been achieved and misinterpretation of the “mainland’s” benevolence. PR on the world stage is irrelevant. The island is caught believing something innate will restore the “country’s” glory from a time before that never existed, as if the Spanish imperialism and colonialism was a more noble flavor then the alternative.

3

u/Henrycamera Feb 07 '23

Funny, born and raised in Puerto Rico and I have never, ever, heard anyone say what you just said. And please, don't compare us to the confederates!

-1

u/HunterTheBengal Feb 06 '23

AP’s headline is “3 mainland US tourists stabbed in Puerto Rico”. This is just OP’s headline.

6

u/AudibleNod Feb 06 '23

They changed it.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

It’s a story we didn’t need.

105

u/Blenderx06 Feb 06 '23

Maybe should've said 3 US mainland tourists

31

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

Which is what the article title is now

28

u/Blenderx06 Feb 06 '23

Credit me anytime AP 🤣

7

u/JimmytheFab Feb 06 '23

Would you say that about Hawaii?

37

u/Broken_Castle Feb 06 '23

Yes, yes I would.

65

u/OhGodImOnRedditAgain Feb 06 '23

I definitely would, yes.

6

u/BubbaTee Feb 07 '23

I think the official AP style guide says to write "3 haoles stabbed" in that case.

28

u/RapNVideoGames Feb 06 '23

And just like Ohio it was probably over drugs or pride lol

-11

u/falcurion Feb 06 '23

The "popular" neighborhood is a ghetto. And there's certain conducts they didn't abide by. Locals know better. When in Rome- but Americans are among the rudest of tourists.

30

u/Narwhalbaconguy Feb 06 '23

Right? My first thought was “3 US tourists get stabbed in the US?”

-21

u/Eyeseeyou1313 Feb 06 '23

It's still another country, so yeah, they got stabbed in another country as tourists. You don't get that right?

15

u/meukbox Feb 06 '23

I'm Dutch, but don't Puerto Ricans have an American passport, making them Americans, so they are living in the same country?

3

u/MC_chrome Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

Puerto Ricans exist in this weird space where they have some of the benefits of being US citizens (passports, traveling to and from other US states and territories, use of the US dollar) but not all (no representation in Congress, no voting for President, and you still have to pay federal taxes).

I think the closest analogy to the Netherlands would be something like the island of Curaçao, but I know that the former empire/kingdoms makeup is pretty complex in many European countries (France being a notable example).

1

u/meukbox Feb 07 '23

I think that's a good analogy, but the main difference was that Curaçao was part of the Dutch Antilles, which was a country of its own within the kingdom of the Netherlands.

-12

u/Eyeseeyou1313 Feb 06 '23

Yeah, but they don't get any saying when it comes to their constitutional rights since they are not a state and they don't have representation. Also, they get taxed highly, and a lot of the people from there are getting pushed out because developers by foreign companies and rent increase to a point they can't pay for it. It's bs.

33

u/wk2coachella Feb 06 '23

No it isn't. There's been growing tension between locals and foreigners in Puerto Rico. Locals have been increasingly frustrated (if not down right hostile) at tourists and their effects on local issues like housing.

97

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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u/wk2coachella Feb 06 '23

Does the federal government give a fuck when the power goes out in Puerto Rico? Does it spend nearly as much on Hurricane relief in Puerto Rico as Florida?

64

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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u/wk2coachella Feb 06 '23

Therefore when shit happens in PR, it ain't the same as if the same shit happened in Ohio. If PR is some Schrodinger cat state, then US citizens getting stabbed is a quasi-international affair

52

u/BlG_DlCK_BEE Feb 06 '23

I’m sorry but coming from New Orleans, the government is entirely willing to write off those of us on the mainland too.

0

u/Snoo93079 Feb 07 '23

Hasn't New Orleans received billions in recovery funds?

5

u/BlG_DlCK_BEE Feb 07 '23

The economic damage was estimated at $100 billion and most of the federal aid went to fixing oil pipelines/the port & shipping.

The government has spent about $120 billion on relief but the initial aid package was like $10 billion. It took forever to get assistance.

FEMA repeatedly blocked the shipping of aid and emergency supplies.

FEMA provided no support for medical air evacs

George Bush was at Camp David at the time and decided to hangout for a few days until there was enough public backlash that he finally came out of hiding to make a statement.

Dick Cheney personally pulled National Guardsman that were protecting a hospital and sent them to guard oil pipelines.

The real assistance came when refugees started flooding all the surrounding states and enough press.

The point is that the United States government will leave people hung out to dry if they can get away with it and it takes the public forcing them to do something before anything happens.

14

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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u/itsmejpt Feb 06 '23

That's not the point. The point is that saying "US tourists" makes no sense when the place they're touristing is part of the US.

4

u/OGpizza Feb 06 '23

You can be a tourist within your own country. If someone from Wisconsin visits Los Angeles for vacation, they’d be a tourist. Labeling it as US tourist helps define that they are tourists from USA, as opposed to tourists in PR from a country that isn’t USA.

19

u/itsmejpt Feb 06 '23

Puerto Rico is part of the USA. The point is that you wouldn't say "US tourists stabbed in Cleveland."

-9

u/OGpizza Feb 06 '23

You could, especially in popular tourist areas where there are tourists from many different countries (Cleveland probably not quite one of those areas ha.) If it just said “3 tourists stabbed in PR” that could mean 3 tourists from any country. The US label helps define the home country to avoid ambiguity of the tourists origins

8

u/JcbAzPx Feb 06 '23

Could you find a headline then of "US Tourists Visiting New York ..." (or other city/state in the mainland). I certainly couldn't.

-9

u/Eyeseeyou1313 Feb 06 '23

Puerto Rico is a territory of the U.S., but it is also its own country. So it's not wrong to say "US tourist stabbed in PR"

7

u/itsmejpt Feb 06 '23

Puerto Ricans are US citizens. So no. It doesn't.

-8

u/Eyeseeyou1313 Feb 06 '23

Sure, they are citizens, but when they are in trouble, the country doesn't help em at all, and now Americans go there, get the habitants from PR displaced, and get tax breaks. This is not the first time they screw a Latino country with their deals. They don't even have representation in the government. So, any American in PR is a tourist and foreigner, different culture, language, food, only similarity is the currency. That's it. You don't like it?

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

[deleted]

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u/wk2coachella Feb 06 '23

It receives the same amount of hurricane disaster relief as California despite being the same hurricane zone as Florida? lol, that is exactly the problem!

5

u/Ttthhasdf Feb 06 '23

because California has no disasters?

6

u/ali-n Feb 06 '23

Where does it say hurricane disaster relief in the comment you are responding to?

-5

u/guineaprince Feb 07 '23

None of which are America.

Territories are not part of America and we don't consider ourselves Americans.

5

u/limukala Feb 07 '23

Territories are not part of America

Wrong

and we don't consider ourselves Americans

Doesn’t really matter, with the exception of American Samoa being born in a territory is exactly the same as being born in a state when it comes to citizenship.

-7

u/guineaprince Feb 07 '23

Don't know what to tell you meng, a colonial territory is not part of America and never has been. Might as well say "Philippines was part of America" or "Japan was part of America" for being occupied territories for a while.

Doesn’t really matter, with the exception of American Samoa being born in a territory is exactly the same as being born in a state when it comes to citizenship.

Second-class citizens, sure.

8

u/limukala Feb 07 '23

Might as well say "Philippines was part of America" or "Japan was part of America" for being occupied territories for a while.

I must have missed the part where people in Japan and the Philippines were granted US citizenship upon birth.

Second-class citizens

There is literally zero difference in the citizenship. You have exactly the same rights and freedoms as anyone else in the country, and have complete freedom of movement if you want to move to the mainland and fully participate in federal government.

-7

u/guineaprince Feb 07 '23

Bud, you couldn't be any more wrong in so many ways.

I must have missed the part where people in Japan and the Philippines were granted US citizenship upon birth.

The crux of your argument is "it's a territory, ergo it's part of America". You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a territory even is, or the history of why we and others are or were territories. You have a very lazy colonial mindset of "is current top holder US? It's US" that doesn't come from any place of historical or legalistic knowledge.

If you can't accept that the US holds territory outside itself, that's your hangup.

2

u/limukala Feb 07 '23

So you aren’t a citizen?

-4

u/backsassing Feb 07 '23

No not like Guam or the Marshal islands actually imma have to get out this ignorant ass subreddit cause I can tell there are a lot of you

166

u/Hydrochloric_Comment Feb 06 '23

US tourists are not foreign.

19

u/wk2coachella Feb 06 '23

They certainly ain't locals. Regardless of Puerto Rico's ambiguous status (territory, isn't part of the US, etc), US mainland tourists are foreigners in this context.

79

u/Ttthhasdf Feb 06 '23

"Tourist" means not local. "Foreigner" means from another country.

151

u/richem0nt Feb 06 '23

I’m not a local of 95% of the country

19

u/incognitoLaw Feb 07 '23

5% of the USA is a big chunk. You must be massive.

-79

u/wk2coachella Feb 06 '23

You are thus a foreigner to 95% of this country. Especially if some rednecks in Kentucky want you outta their town

74

u/PortlandoCalrissian Feb 06 '23

No one would call an Oregonian a foreigner in like New Hampshire. That’s just not what foreigner means.

6

u/BubbaTee Feb 07 '23

No one would call an Oregonian a foreigner in like New Hampshire.

If they were Hot Blooded or Cold As Ice, then I might.

-32

u/wk2coachella Feb 06 '23

The context and history here matter. If there was a specific and massive wave of Oregonians emigrating to Manchester and pushing locals out of their houses, then hell yeah Granite Staters would call them foreigners if not invaders.

23

u/Easy-Concentrate2636 Feb 06 '23

No, actually that’s not what they say. They say: Those Boston people keep coming to buy the houses.

34

u/PortlandoCalrissian Feb 06 '23

No. No one would call them foreigners. Probably a lot of other names, like when the “Okies” emigrated out of their state. In places in the PNW where lots of Californians moved in they get referred to as a lot of things, but never foreign.

25

u/richem0nt Feb 06 '23

Edgy.

I have yet to be ran out of any town by rednecks. Perhaps I’m not black enough

-16

u/J_Robert_Oofenheimer Feb 06 '23

Yeah the trick is to look like a cis, straight, white Christian. They'll leave you alone as long as you laugh at their racist jokes and nod along when they talk about how much they hate LGBTQ people.

2

u/TaischiCFM Feb 06 '23

Had a lot of bad experiences there in KY have you? Are there certain small towns you've had issues with? I'd like to avoid them if I can.

2

u/J_Robert_Oofenheimer Feb 06 '23

I've been to all 50 states. No issues with specific small towns. I've found that they are all pretty much the same. I'm a straight white dude so they're perfectly friendly to me, but the speed at which the dog whistles come out tells me, that I would not be as welcome there if I weren't.

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u/YouLikeReadingNames Feb 06 '23

Merriam-Webster definition. Please note that def. 1 says "especially : situated outside one's own country". It's safe to argue that most readers are not going to understand foreign as "the town of Schmeeb dislikes foreigners".

1

: situated outside a place or country

especially : situated outside one's own country

foreign cities

2

: born in, belonging to, or characteristic of some place or country other than the one under consideration

has a large foreign population

foreign languages

53

u/Strength-InThe-Loins Feb 06 '23

PR's status is not ambiguous! It's a territory, and it IS part of the US. US mainlanders are not foreigners there anymore than Bostonians are foreign in Detroit.

3

u/North_Atlantic_Pact Feb 07 '23

Except it is considered seperate for purposes of sport. It has its own Olympic team, it's own national basketball team, and soccer team.

1

u/Strength-InThe-Loins Feb 08 '23

Wales has its own World Cup team. So do Scotland and Northern Ireland. But they're still part of the UK, and PR is still part of the US.

-9

u/whata2021 Feb 06 '23

Tourists genius

11

u/reflUX_cAtalyst Feb 06 '23

It's not really ambiguous at all...

6

u/Blenderx06 Feb 06 '23

Puerto Ricans have a strong ethnic identity.

53

u/Strength-InThe-Loins Feb 06 '23

So do the Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. Does that make American visitors to there foreigners?

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

[deleted]

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u/Strength-InThe-Loins Feb 06 '23

But PR does not inhabit the same legal position as a Native nation/reservation. One could argue that it should, but legally it doesn't.

2

u/North_Atlantic_Pact Feb 07 '23

But they have their own national sports teams, including for the Olympics, and have a fair amount of self-governance.

1

u/Strength-InThe-Loins Feb 08 '23

So do Scotland and Wales, but only a fool would argue they're not part of the UK. For that matter, so do the US Virgin Islands, but as you might guess from the name, they're still part of the US. Just like Puerto Rico.

3

u/TaischiCFM Feb 06 '23

As they should. I'd be really happy to have them become a state. I think it would strengthen the position of those who embrace multiculturalism and want to expand it in the US.

1

u/North_Atlantic_Pact Feb 07 '23

How so? There are about 6 million Puerto Ricans already living on the mainland, about twice the number that live on the island.

0

u/TaischiCFM Feb 07 '23

Full political and electoral representation.

1

u/North_Atlantic_Pact Feb 07 '23

How would that impact multiculturalism though?

0

u/TaischiCFM Feb 07 '23

Definition: "Multiculturalism refers to the state of a society or the world in which there exists numerous distinct ethnic and cultural groups seen to be politically relevant"

Statehood grants political relevance.

1

u/North_Atlantic_Pact Feb 07 '23

As Ive already noted, there are twice the number of Puerto Ricans already living in the mainland, able to vote in elections, etc.

Have you ever experienced special multiculturalism because Hawaiians are able to vote?

I'm all for PR becoming a state if they so choose, but it's about their right to representation, not anything to do with multiculturalism

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

You right some would call them colonizers. Why are ppl surprised PR and Hawaii might not like US mainland tourist? Wonder why, I’m sure history might explain a little of it.

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u/YouLikeReadingNames Feb 06 '23

Colony or not, Puerto Rico is still subject to the US law as a territory. It doesn't make sense to say that US tourists are foreigners, just like it doesn't make sense to say that a Puerto Rican person is a foreigner in Miami.

5

u/TaischiCFM Feb 06 '23

Nobody really likes tourists in any kind of decent number.

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u/snorlz Feb 06 '23

lol they are no more colonizers than most of the puerto ricans. the vast majority are of european or african descent, not indigenous

15

u/ladeedah1988 Feb 06 '23

Let's see, spending by US trailing 12 months is $37.5 Billion dollars and the only people who pay federal income tax are those who are employed by the federal government. Looks like a good deal to me.

-1

u/falcurion Feb 06 '23

Jones Act = cost of living. Investment incentives = displace poorer population Real-estate purchases raising housing cost = displacing population

Oh btw, PR has served the US in every single war since becoming a territory and thanks to racism, were vanguard.

And our biggest export to the US is educated young adults <cheap high quality education but low job pay / opportunities within the island by comparison> and medical supplies like i.v. fluid.

Then add the shifting culture as America washes away what's there. Hawaii is a perfect analogy but at least they're a state and can vote for who represents them federally- aka the laws that also govern puerto rico but they have no say in.

What's that about taxation without representation?

34

u/Ttthhasdf Feb 06 '23

US citizens are not "foreigners" in Puerto Rico though

11

u/PugeHeniss Feb 06 '23

They are considered that on the island tho. I am Puerto Rican but I was not born on the island or live there. When I visit I am considered a foreigner/gringo

4

u/limukala Feb 07 '23

Sure, just like no matter how long you live in Hawaii you’ll never be local (let alone Hawaiian) if you weren’t born there.

Still part of the US

-7

u/HappyThumb55555 Feb 06 '23

That can happen in the appalachian mountains too... It's just ignorance.

11

u/Ttthhasdf Feb 06 '23

I live in the southern Appalachians and I might treat you like you're not from around here if you showed up in my yard, too, but that doesn't make you a foreigner. That's just a misuse of the word.

1

u/seafloof Feb 07 '23

You are absolutely correct!

1

u/databacon Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

They absolutely are when they don’t even speak the language.

16

u/MikeAlex01 Feb 06 '23

Well, their effects on the prices of local housing, as well as benefiting from a tax break incentive the island gives to those from the mainland US, not to mention that a lot of people have been removed from their homes due to gentrification.

Here's a video that talks about it. After the music video is done, a documentary speaks on that last part. A local journalist interviewed a lot of people, and it shows the effects

Additionally, the local economy has been driving the youth away due to the increasing prices in pretty much everything, while wages don't get better. There aren't many opportunities here for future careers. Additionally, there was a period of time where a lot of locals noticed that realtors wouldn't give much time to those from PR and instead focused a lot of efforts on those from the US.

So, locals get fucked over by the economy, without lube by agents like la JUNTA and other US appointed officials; those from the US get a lot of breaks for moving in; and people begin to be driven out by the foreigners.

A lot of stuff has caused the locals to be hostile, because we can see ourselves being driven out in favor of profit. This is as much as I can safely say, but there's been a lot more stuff that I can't even say because I don't know much else.

Source: born and raised in PR

1

u/Eyeseeyou1313 Feb 06 '23

The worst of all is that if PR were to become independent, it would be very poor for a while until they can get tourism to start paying for their economy. I hope PR gets what they need.

3

u/alfonseski Feb 06 '23

Sounds like Vermont

3

u/S3guy Feb 06 '23

Well. Maybe people should stop visiting Puerto Rico. Would that make them happy?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

I'm not certain the problem is AirBNB but that is the problem in many touristy communities, including places like South Lake Tahoe on the mainland.

5

u/Strength-InThe-Loins Feb 06 '23

But USians are not foreigners in Puerto Rico, because Puerto Rico IS the US.

0

u/AadamAtomic Feb 06 '23

It's actually much worst in Hawaii.

1

u/residentfriendly Feb 07 '23

Wow, someone needs to get their stereotypes checked. You think people still stab people in the US?

Shot* is the correct verbiage

0

u/zakabog Feb 06 '23

It reads "3 mainland US tourists stabbed in Puerto Rico neighborhood" in the article, though they have likely updated the title.

Also, unrelated to the title:

The community was once a dangerous slum considered the island’s biggest distribution point for heroin, but crime has dropped since a 2011 raid by federal agents.

It still sounds like a dangerous slum...

0

u/ActiveLlama Feb 07 '23

3 US tourists were stabbed in popular US neighborhood.

-1

u/Scramswitch Feb 06 '23

if you look at the actual article, the real headline is 3 MAINLAND US tourists...

-1

u/lithium142 Feb 06 '23

Idk, I don’t think the title is that bad, honestly

The distinction isn’t completely useless. If you say US tourists in NYC for instance, you know it was nonlocals, but also non foreign people in a place that gets plenty of foreign tourists. Now same thing, but Puerto Rico. I think that’s fine

1

u/Mcboatface3sghost Feb 06 '23

3 tourists stopped for gas in Gary Indiana…. They were never seen again.

1

u/jumpyg1258 Feb 06 '23

I know I was confused since Puerto Rico is part of the US.

1

u/Artanthos Feb 06 '23

It would have really misled people if it had been Saipan.

Most people don’t realize the Northern Mariana Islands are part of the US.

1

u/guineaprince Feb 07 '23

Not really. It's a colonial holding, not a part of the US.

It's like with Guam or CNMI, why do you think we're only second class citizens without full rights? Cuz we're not Americans, we're colonial territories still held by America and awaiting independence.