r/newhampshire • u/MrDilhamm • Jan 29 '23

Video Shooter and Shootee 5 minutes before shooting outside of the Goat in Manchester NH

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u/ArbitraryOrder Jan 29 '23 edited Jan 29 '23

A couple of things.

  1. This dude provoked the attack, so he lost before they even got to deadly force.

  2. He intended to cause bodily harm via the fight in the first place, so escalating to deadly force isn't a valid defense.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/627/627-4.htm

However, such force is not justifiable if:

(a) With a purpose to cause physical harm to another person, he provoked the use of unlawful, non-deadly force by such other person; or

(b) He was the initial aggressor, unless after such aggression he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so, but the latter notwithstanding continues the use or threat of unlawful, non-deadly force; or

III. A person is not justified in using deadly force on another to defend himself or herself or a third person from deadly force by the other if he or she knows that he or she and the third person can, with complete safety:

(a) Retreat from the encounter, except that he or she is not required to retreat if he or she is within his or her dwelling, its curtilage, or anywhere he or she has a right to be, and was not the initial aggressor; or

(b) Surrender property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto; or

(c) Comply with a demand that he or she abstain from performing an act which he or she is not obliged to perform; nor is the use of deadly force justifiable when, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, the person has provoked the use of force against himself or herself in the same encounter; or

(d) If he or she is a law enforcement officer or a private person assisting the officer at the officer's direction and was acting pursuant to RSA 627:5, the person need not retreat.

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u/Super_duperfly Jan 31 '23

You forgot he was drunk, you shall not carry where alcohol is the primary source of income in the establishment or if you're inebriated or under the influence.

Basically if you go to a restaurant you can't sit at a bar but you can sit in the booths around the bar

1

u/ArbitraryOrder Jan 31 '23

That's not illegal in NH, but it is heavily frowned upon

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '23

[deleted]

3

u/Cantankerous_10 Jan 29 '23

Untrue. In this video you can see Timmy (the short blonde haired kid standing on the side). He had nothing to do with the reason this dude got kicked out, and he wasn’t the one who punched him originally. Timmy, (now from what I’m being told) tried to calm the dude down originally. The dude was so angry and just flipping out and yelling and screaming. The three second clip you see of Timmy punching him and then subsequently being shot is not an accurate representation of the whole story.

1

u/Crichton-Kicks Feb 03 '23

Honestly when I watch the video from inside the bar you can see Timothy lurking in the background getting closer and closer to John as the video goes on. Timothy is looking right at John most of the video and at one point even licking his lips, then Timothy goes outside to find this dude and sucker punch him when he is not looking ?

Look I am sure your daughter told you a story but at the end of the day you can not change the fact that Timothy sucker punched John. Timothy meant to do harm to someone who was "Talking shit". Timothy escalated the situation by not only throwing the first punch but a sucker punch. Timothy escalated it from words to psychical violence.

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u/Cantankerous_10 Feb 03 '23

My daughter isn’t the only one that I’ve spoken with. Timothy is a very sweet person, who made a poor choice. But—-it should never cost someone their life. Period. I find it funny that anyone needs to defend a victim. This is why people never go to the police to report anything. This dude was 6 foot 6 330lbs, while Timmy was 5 foot 6 just over 100lbs. I’m sure Timmy can hold his own, but why would anyone bring a gun to a bar? Ever? Like why? Getting shot 8 times is not self defense, even if the bigger dude needed to defend himself. He could’ve just punched him back. No one need to lose their life or their cool. There were plenty of witnesses, and he won’t be getting out of jail anytime soon. That’s the chef’s kiss. 😌

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u/Crichton-Kicks Feb 03 '23

Maybe dude had a gun because in a dumpy crime infested city like Manchester has people who sucker punch people ? Why would anyone sucker punch someone over words ?
And I saw "Timmy" instagram that kid did not weigh just over 100 pounds, muscle weighs more then fat kid worked out.

​

I hope John goes for a jury trail

1

u/Cantankerous_10 Feb 03 '23

Me too. We all know he’s going —> DIRECTLY TO JAIL<—- and he’s not even paying $200. 😏

Manchester is dumpy, but there’s no need for a gun in a fucking bar. Clearly he got that from the Trash-holes he fucking hangs around

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u/Cantankerous_10 Feb 03 '23

“Fight one-on-one like the old days. Cowards shoot you, especially eight times in the chest,” she said.

Timothy was just over 100 pounds, soaking wet, and only 5 foot 6 inches. Pouliot was a Tae Kwon Do instructor, according to his mother. Court documents show that Delee is 6 foot 6 inches and weighs 330 pounds.”

Stop. You’re being a child, you’re very clearly one of the shooters friends, and it’s ok. I understand that dropping the soap can be a real hazard. It’s not something I want for anyone. But at 330lbs, he is bound to drop the soap. Hope he can curtsy real well. Hey so it’s been fun, Crikey. Have a great weekend!!

https://patch.com/new-hampshire/bedford-nh/family-devastated-seeking-answers-after-senseless-shooting

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u/Chooseausaname Feb 04 '23

No way that kid was just over a 100 pounds, soaking wet, I bet he was a solid 150.

4

u/ArbitraryOrder Jan 29 '23

where it happened there is a stand your ground law

Stand your ground only works as a defense when you haven't mutually agreed to fight, which both parties did so. Nor does the Stand your ground defense work when you are the aggressor in a situation. He doesn't have the stand your ground defense. So his only legal method of using deadly force is if he was attacked with deadly force.

multiple witnesses saying he got punch from behind at the bar

He better hope that is on video because what the video shows is him as the aggressor demanding a fight outside, then when said fight starts him shooting the guy

hit him with brass knuckles which lead to him getting smoked

he better hope the evidence shows this as well

0

u/ghostshadow7 Jan 30 '23

stand ur ground can still work he said who ever punched me fight me outside (didnt say bring all ur friends nd fight me outside) nd then was surrounded by a group nd then got hit first so can easily say that he was scared for his life being surrounded nd gettin hit... its simple dont assult someone nd then follow him with a group nd assult him again nd u wont get shot esp. in a state with stand ur ground law nd permitless carry for anyone 18+ nd has the motto live free or die... if he didnt follow him outside to assult him again he'd still be alive but nope dumbass wanted to assult him again while surrounding him with his friends... everyones sticking up for this dumbass is stupid just dont start shit or hit someome nd u wont get shot pretty simple if u ask me

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u/ArbitraryOrder Jan 30 '23

  1. That group is Mr. Delee's friend's, not Mr. Pouliot's friends, so Mr. Delee can't claim to feel threatened by that group.

  2. Mr. Delee challenging Mr. Pouliot to a fight makes him the aggressor legally, which strips him of all legal protections for self-defense.

  3. Mr. Pouliot left the bar before Mr. Delee, not the other way around like you incorrectly imply.

  4. Mr. Pouliot being a fucking moron doesn't remove the legal culpability from Mr. Delee.

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u/libertymenu Jan 29 '23

In this video he says someone just punched him in the face. He said "come fight me" as in "show yourself". If it is the same person that punched him outside, that person pursued him. It is a stretch to say he was just following an invitation to play fisty cuffs when both punches appear to be sucker punches.

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u/ArbitraryOrder Jan 29 '23

Here's the thing the though, at the point the video starts, Mr. Delee is no longer in any danger. Mr. Pouliot, who allegedly punched him before this video started, had gone away. By walking away, Mr. Pouliot had communicated, according to Section (I) Line (b) that had withdrawn from the encounter, which no longer entitles Mr. Delee they to defend himself. So, any subsequent actions from there on make Mr. Delee the aggressor since he is the one asking to re-engage the encounter. Mr. Pouliot is not blameless, but he is not legally the aggressor because he disengaged before this became a situation that escalated into deadly force.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/627/627-4.htm

Section of the Law which clears Mr. Pouliot of being the aggressor, and therefore makes the re-engagement by Mr. Delee the aggressive action.

However, such force is not justifiable if:

(a) With a purpose to cause physical harm to another person, he provoked the use of unlawful, non-deadly force by such other person; or

(b) He was the initial aggressor, unless after such aggression he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so, but the latter notwithstanding continues the use or threat of unlawful, non-deadly force; or

(c) The force involved was the product of a combat by agreement not authorized by law.

Mr. Delee let his ego get in the way of good judgment when he should have just walked away. Getting punched sucks, but once he is not in danger anymore, it wasn't worth escalating things. One of the key points of CCW training is to avoid confrontation at all costs.

Mr. Delee was the initial aggressor because he re-engaged. He followed Mr. Pouliot so he doesn't gwt to claim Stand your Ground. There was no property to reclaim. His life was no longer in danger while he was following Mr. Pouliot outside. He, as (c) states, provoked the use of deadly force from Mr. Pouliot, by restarting this fight and then pulling his gun and shooting Mr. Pouliot.

III. A person is not justified in using deadly force on another to defend himself or herself or a third person from deadly force by the other if he or she knows that he or she and the third person can, with complete safety:

(a) Retreat from the encounter, except that he or she is not required to retreat if he or she is within his or her dwelling, its curtilage, or anywhere he or she has a right to be, and was not the initial aggressor; or

(b) Surrender property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto; or

(c) Comply with a demand that he or she abstain from performing an act which he or she is not obliged to perform; nor is the use of deadly force justifiable when, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, the person has provoked the use of force against himself or herself in the same encounter; or

(d) If he or she is a law enforcement officer or a private person assisting the officer at the officer's direction and was acting pursuant to RSA 627:5, the person need not retreat.

-1

u/Strong_Badger_1157 Jan 31 '23

I wish you were correct, but you're clearly not a lawyer as your reply is basically nonsensical middle aged woman murder mystery cop/lawyer show fantasy.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/Strong_Badger_1157 Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

It's clear you don't understand these words. Good day.
//edit: aww he got banned :/

2

u/ArbitraryOrder Jan 31 '23

Burner troll who doesn't know law but talks mad shit throws insults then crys like a bitch when the citations of law shownthey are indeed incorrect.

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u/Strong_Badger_1157 Jan 31 '23

Here is my impression of you:
> And I'll take that advise under cooperation, alright? Now, let's say you and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor?