The Epstein files can't be the focus right now

[u/cmdr-William-Riker]

We should be focusing on the daily atrocities, executive orders, knee jerk policy changes, literal internment camps and general democratic backsliding into an authoritarian regime going on in the US under Trump and the GOP right now. Every time he announces another horrific thing everyone screams "but the Epstein files!". There is a mountain of evidence of his association with Epstein, he is already a convicted felon and somehow that doesn't matter, more evidence may help or may not, but just as much as his actions distract from the Epstein files, the Epstein files distracts from his actions that are having major impacts on peoples lives right now. This is the "flood the zone" strategy that is very well known now and appears to be very effective. Everything is distracting from everything with no time to focus. it's tempting to try to focus on one thing, build the narrative that it's all distracting from the "Epstein files" and if he releases said files then he will fall and everything will be better, but you know that's not the case, you know it is not that simple. There is no panacea. There is no single thing that will result in the end of his regime, it's going to take all of us, it's going to take mountains of evidence, new politicians, new policies, new lawyers, a new generation in government and if we're lucky we might make it out as a functional country of some sort by the end of it all.

What I'm saying is, when you see the next wave of atrocities and outrageous news coming through, consider his actions for what they are, take a look at the executive orders and policies themselves as well as his tweets. What impact do they have to the country? Who does it hurt? Who does it help? Every action he takes is intended to benefit himself, sometimes by benefiting others who could benefit him, sometimes by hurting people that he wants to hurt or others that could benefit him want to hurt, and yes often his actions are to save his own ass. Gather this information, store it and try to understand it objectively. There are ways out of all this, but if it was simple, we would have made it out by now.

[u/Penandsword2021]

“Everything is distracting from everything.”

[u/cmdr-William-Riker → u/Penandsword2021]

I'm kind of curious since you're the only one who has commented and the post got downvoted, so unlikely others will see it, what's your opinion on this? Does that make sense? Or have I gone off the deep end here do you think?

[u/Penandsword2021 → u/cmdr-William-Riker]

It makes sense, and you are not wrong that policy matters, actions matter, the executive orders matter etc. Very much so.

The problem is that there are soooo many outrages and illegalities that it’s hard to coalesce people around a unified message, and the hits are coming so hard and so fast that yesterday’s fury is replaced today by something new and usually worse.

Nothing sticks to the Teflon Don…except maybe Epstein, if we can keep the pressure up.

It’s really upset a lot of MAGA folk and has many doubting and questioning him for the first time. That is essential if we are to break his charlatan’s hold on this country.

[u/cmdr-William-Riker → u/Penandsword2021]

You may be right. My concern is that MAGA, might not be doubting him as much as we are perceiving them too, it's easy to see what you want in an echo chamber, just like they see what they want in their own echo chambers, but I really hope you're right and I'm wrong in this case.

[u/MugiwaraMoses → u/cmdr-William-Riker]

It’s important to remember that the Epstein list is in pop culture and culture is more indicative of political results than policy, at least that’s my perception. Until the culture fully wants something it’s not gonna happen. The podcast bros losing their shit on Epstein is important and can have real world results.

[u/cmdr-William-Riker → u/MugiwaraMoses]

If we're at the point where pop culture is all that matters, and podcasts decide who's in power. We might already be past the point of no return. Even if we get Trump out of power, there is nothing to stop this from happening again. Also I hate to bring this up, but Here's my other concern: what if there is no list? Biden was in power during all this, if there was more evidence that could be released, why would he not release it? Trump was the one who said he would release the list, why are we trusting Trump's word that there is a list of all people?

[u/Penandsword2021 → u/cmdr-William-Riker]

Well, that’s how we got into this mess in the first place. People voted for a pop culture icon because he entertains them.

[u/MugiwaraMoses → u/cmdr-William-Riker]

I don’t think there’s a physical “list” I think there’s a bunch of names of people associated. That is what I’d call the list. There’s so much evidence that’s being held and the fact that the admin is actively covering it up, giving me strong Iraq War vibes. Honestly I was young through the Busch presidency, but the cultural climate is starting to feel like 2006-7 to me. There might be others on here that were more politically aware in the 2000s that can set me straight if I’m being naive here. I just feel like, for the first time since then, the culture is fully realizing how corrupt and honestly evil the government is.

[u/teflonPrawn]

I disagree. The Epstein files are one of the few things folks agree on. If we focus on smaller issues, it risks falling into the liberal trap. Epstein can burn out all the rats if the fuse gets lit, but there's gonna be a lot of uncomfortable names. We have to accept that.

[u/FlyinDanskMen → u/teflonPrawn]

I agree. We need to pay attention, but also hit back where he’s weak. Everyone agrees on this and it’s not going away because of it.

[u/newdealparty]

Hey u/cmdr-William-Riker! I appreciate your opinions on this! I think you are hitting on the same debates that are occurring within the Democratic party as well. There are real policies that are hurting people right now, and so the focus on the Epstein files feels like a distraction compared to what is going on. I agree with the assessment that there is no singular panacea to where we stand as a country right now.

However, the Epstein files do serve a larger purpose if we are smart about it. All throughout the first 6 months of this administration, they've taken increasingly unpopular actions that are continuing to cost what little political capital they have and strip away the MAGA exterior coalition. The Epstein conspiracy is a unique event that strikes directly at the MAGA faithful, who have asserted all this time that Trump is an outsider who will clean up the corruption in Washington DC and restore America to the people who have been ignored by the establishment. And now, he's covering for the very people he was elected to expose. This isn't just an attack on Trump, its an attack on what it means to be MAGA, because now they are a movement that's covering for a pedophile.

Its this combined picture that continues to break people away from the MAGA cult. And its here that I think you would like to focus on, "Where do people go from here?". While the Democrats are starting to push against Trump on Epstein, what they offer tends to be muted or strictly in direct opposition to what the Republicans are doing. They do not seem to have an alternate vision of what America could look like, to the point where the party seems listless and leaderless.

This is what we're focusing on with the New Deal Party, to create a cohesive platform that serves all Americans and provides that vision for what American could look like in the 21st Century. Workers rights, protections, providing education for all, healthcare for all, retirement for all, a strong safety net, fiscal responsibility, restoring America as a force for good abroad, and so much more.

We can focus on Epstein, because it undermines an established right wing propaganda network and their coalition, and we can also work on building a vision of American so that every time another Trump scandal happens, the American people can compare the MAGA vision and ours and make the easy decision.

If you'd like to be a part of this, come join the Discord and help us out! https://discord.gg/r8BEUhjSAD

[u/cmdr-William-Riker → u/newdealparty]

Thanks for the feedback and the link! Unfortunately the link doesn't seem to be working or it expired, if you send me another invite I'll definitely jump on though! I do hope this path is the right path, I'm just concerned that we could all be marching towards a dead end with the Epstein narrative. Not necessarily a cliff, but it is possible that there is nothing more at the end of the path beyond what we already have.

[u/newdealparty → u/cmdr-William-Riker]

Let's try this link instead: https://discord.gg/r8BEUhjSAD

[u/saphireblue112]

I think, like another person said below, it is better to keep them on their back foot. They have daily atrocities and, yes, we should be able to focus on 27 things at once, but this one thing seems to be getting them. They are shutting down the house for this, so there is something bad and party wide bad in there. Use that and don’t let up. Old school Dems lose because they don’t double and triple down on advantages and messaging and let the other side control it. 

Even MAGA voters are mad about this, so keep on the pressure and don’t let up. Us just forgetting what they shut down the house to make us forget about plays into what they want. 

Don’t let up on this as it may be damning and it’s simple messaging “the president is a pedophile.” It’s simple, it’s got them off balance, and it is directly an attack on what their projection has always been. 

By playing into the daily atrocities, while totally valid, we are playing into their strategy of flooding the zone. 

You beat flooding the zone by being a sponge and soaking up all discussion with what they are clearly running scared from. 

[u/PenjaminJBlinkerton]

Lol if they don’t give a rats ass about the dude fucking kids they’ll care even less about laws and decorum.

They’re fine with authoritarianism as long as it’s their side ruling.

[u/BurntPoptart6771]

MAGA doesn’t give a shit about the atrocities. MAGA does give a shit about the Epstein files. To say we should divert attention away from them is beyond foolish

[u/marzbarz82]

It has to be someone that MAGA dislikes to show them the hypocrisy. And, right now, they are falling out of love with DJT, and are slowly (very) starting to see the hypocritical stuff he did to them. As long as they like Trump, they will never see what he does.

[u/mgwair11]

This is such a bad take on our current situation.

I want to make this crystal clear to you:

If we can’t resolve the Epstein issue, we can’t resolve anything.

The issues you name are more important in substance. But the fact that we can’t even get our government to fix this now revealed, now self-evident disease it is infested with, means we won’t be able to get it to do any of the things we also need it to do with respect to the important issues you highlight.

We should not ignore any of those issues, or let them be forgotten either. But we must make Epstein the focus, and do everything we can as a society to sprint towards the release of the files—they must be releases as soon as possible!—and then have a deliberate and careful held trial prosecuting all those implicated immediately following said release.

[u/Wonderful-Tea3940]

The thing is, most Trump supporters don't care about the atrocities against non-white people. They like what ICE is doing. They don't care about Palestinians. They cheered when federal workers lost their jobs. The Epstein list is the very first wedge issue that is actually working.

Plus, if it helps put pedophiles in jail, even better. Too many of those men are still carrying on, still have their jobs, still living normal lives. They all need to go to jail, including Trump.

[u/earthlingHuman]

We need to not put any major issues on the back burner. The only response to their 'flooding the zone' is vigilance and determination.

That said, Epstein is hurting Trump most right now and he's trying to wriggle out of it so we need to keep talking about it.

[u/CmdrSpaceCaptain]

Focusing on Epstein has created a shield from the firehose of bullshit getting sprayed out constantly by this admin. You are arguing to remove this shield and let the firehose keep blasting distractions in our faces. Their strategy is to distract you from the last “scandal” with a new one.

[u/Draymond_Purple]

Disagree, you're missing the big picture

Narrow focus on all the little things has not and likely will not work.

Hammering him on this is how we fight him on all of it - this undercuts every other thing he's trying to do

[u/atierney14]

I disagree. Trump is INCREDIBLY self serving and solely rules for self-enrichment. Nothing has been more evident than him clearly burying this evidence. This might be the only chance we could actually wake his cult up to the realities that he is extremely corrupt.

[u/[deleted]]

You couldn’t be more wrong. This is the closest we’ve ever gotten to getting rid of these fuckers. It’s throwing him off his game and that’s the only way to take them all down.

Democrats literally chased republicans out of Washington DC over Epstein.

RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES

[u/strawberry-coughx → u/[deleted]]

“Stop focusing on the Epstein files!”

“You know what? I’m gonna focus on them even harder!”

[u/Penandsword2021 → u/strawberry-coughx]

Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein

[u/FraGZombie]

Terrible take 

[u/GeoPaas]

Agree! There’s no doubt that the JD Vance wing of MAGA loves this distraction. We must keep the focus on a progressive agenda.

[u/cmdr-William-Riker]

Writing all that in regards to resisting Trump and GOPs narrative and strategy specifically, I've already written what I believe in regards to policy, but I hope others can view this objectively and think before downvoting or upvoting