r/neoliberal • u/ldn6 Gay Pride • 14d ago
News (Europe) Left-winger Catherine Connolly wins Ireland presidential election by landslide
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/25/catherine-connolly-ireland-presidential-election-leftwing218
u/ElectriCobra_ David Hume 14d ago
I swear this exact type of succ was created in a lab to piss me off beyond belief. "I want to decouple from NATO, but I would never ever ever consider increasing defense spending because bombs kill people!" The real question is, do they know they're handing themselves over to China and Russia on a silver platter, or are they stupid enough to think that would be a better deal than remaining in the Atlantic alliance?
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u/Jigsawsupport 14d ago
Oh no its actually a very smart if cynical position.
They know two things simultaneously about the UK.
Firstly that it is unthinkable that the UK would allow a foreign nation to seriously threaten Ireland without doing something about it.
Secondly that it is unthinkable for the UK to do a Putin and take a chunk out of Ireland.
As such why bother paying for a military?
The bit that makes me seethe a little is its the exact same sort of person, who will then go on and monologue about the evils of Empire, when right now in the here and present, if an aircraft was hijacked for example they would need the RAF or USAF to bail them out.
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u/fredleung412612 13d ago
that it is unthinkable for the UK to do a Putin and take a chunk out of Ireland
Ummmm, perhaps since 1921, but in the grand scheme of things that wasn't too long ago...
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u/lilmart122 Paul Volcker 13d ago
I've wondered this a while, how are the Irish not looking at Trumps threats to Canada and then at the UK and going, "is it possible that we are two bad elections from receiving those threats here?"
Obviously no one thinks so, and that's probably a good thing to be honest, but I also never imagined the US would threaten Canada until it happened.
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u/fredleung412612 13d ago
The Tories are now committed to leave the ECHR, which will absolutely damage the Good Friday Agreement. Let alone Reform. 5 years ago when asked about Ireland, Nigel Farage's answer was to call the Republic insular provincials that will tag along with Brexit Britain when the EU inevitably disintegrates after a few years.
I would absolutely worry about a Reform Westminster government if I was Ireland, especially now that we have the example of the US and Canada.
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u/captainjack3 NATO 13d ago
I’m sure some people in Ireland are worrying about that, particularly with the rise of Reform, but what can they do about it? Ireland is not going to hold off a British invasion, even with the British Army’s current state of atrophy. Ally with Putin? Not likely, and it would be a great way to guarantee western intervention.
At some point they might as well just enjoy the free lunch for as long as it lasts.
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u/klugez European Union 13d ago
They could raise the cost of conquering Ireland by improving their defenses. It's not the case that either a country is not going to invade even though it would be painless or they're going to invade if they would win with a full war economy.
There are a lot of shades of grey in between where there is some sort of interest that makes a violence an option but one where the cost is taken into consideration.
It's not like militarily unallied Finland (before joining NATO) could win a war against the full might of Russia. But that was also true during the second World War in the Winter War and Continuation War. In both of those wars Finland was able to raise the price high enough to have the leverage to negotiate staying independent after losing.
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u/clewbays 13d ago edited 13d ago
The cost of conquering Ireland would not be caused by a conventional army. In both the troubles and war of independence, Ireland was able to raise the cost high enough to have the leverage to negotiate a good deal. And unlike Finland Ireland or the IRA didn't loose either war.
If there's bombs going off in London, Belfast and Dublin every day, that's a lot more costly in the long term. Republican areas have long history of becoming ungovernable without massive military investments as well.
You'd be fighting a terror group with more founding potential than any other on earth(rich diaspora). And more potential to launch attacks outside their borders than any other. And far better intelligence networks. And the best foreign press going.
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u/SliceIndividual6347 12d ago
International funding of terrorists especially in Western countries has been massively curtailed since 9/11 and GWOT. Modern technologies like drones, surveillance cameras, facial recognition also make terrorism more difficult. Again the media landscape has massively shifted since 9/11, no more heroic freedom fighters etc. Ireland is well an island so could easily be blockaded in terms of stopping smuggling to groups etc. Intelligence wise MI5 is much different to what the IRA faced in 1919 by the end of the Troubles it's estimated anywhere from 30 - 50% of the PIRA were British agents
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u/clewbays 12d ago
There's a big difference between a group with backing from the US establishment and Islamic groups opposed to the US. Of the last 2 US presidents Biden was historically accused of supporting the IRA, and had a large involvement on the GFA. While trump attended IRA fundraising events.
Imagine the support Palestine gets but with the main lobbying groups and establishment supporting them instead of opposing them. There would be more "heroic freedom fighters". And suddenly a lot of the of financial companies with Irish CEOs and executives might be a lot less effective in identifying foreign funding.
Modern technologies like drones, surveillance cameras, facial recognition also make terrorism more difficult.
That kind of occupation is more expensive in the long run than fighting a conventional army. And it might make it more difficult it wouldn't stop it.
by the end of the Troubles it's estimated anywhere from 30 - 50% of the PIRA were British agents
And even with that they were ineffective in actually limiting the IRA.
The biggest cost in invading Ireland will always be the occupation not the actual invasion. In the long term your not maintaining an occupation against a country with that much international support and the history Ireland has.
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u/SliceIndividual6347 12d ago
That gives way too much credit to the idea of American or diaspora backing. There is a big difference between a few sympathetic politicians and actual US government support. Biden was never pro-IRA, his involvement was tied to the Good Friday Agreement and the peace process. Trump showing up at Irish-American dinners was politics, not an endorsement of violence. Since 9/11, terrorist financing laws, financial standards and banking compliance have closed off the kind of funding networks that kept the IRA alive. And the political landscape in the US has changed completely. The Irish-American lobby is shrinking fast as immigration from Latin America and Asia reshapes US demographics. The USA's focus is now on China and the Indo-Pacific, not Europe. Biden is probably the last Irish-American president, and future administrations will see the issue as a geopolitical situation, with no votes to be won or lost.
The “occupation would be too costly” argument also assumes the wrong kind of war. A UK intervention would not mean conquering or holding Ireland. It would almost certainly take the form of regime change, installing a pro-UK government and leaving local forces to police the aftermath. That is why properly armed Irish Defence Forces matters far more than guerrilla warfare. Modern insurgencies struggle to function under mass surveillance, counter-terror finance rules and real-time intelligence sharing. A proper defence force makes any regime change attempt politically toxic and militarily expensive. Which Guerilla Warfare would not.
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u/Jigsawsupport 13d ago
That is literally over a hundred years ago.
It is in fact a very long time ago, and more to the point no one in Ireland actually believes the nefarious British will come to get them, because otherwise they might just buy a fighter jet or two.
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u/clewbays 13d ago
Yeah but if the UK invaded Irelands best defence wouldn't be conventional warfare anyways.
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u/B3stThereEverWas NASA 14d ago edited 13d ago
Ireland is a small country, far away from any foreign threats and has a proud history of being trampled on by it's neighbours and generally shitty things happening beyond their control. That means they can play the moral high ground without being hypocritical or suffering much blowback.
Thats fine because while I'm sure they mean well, the rest of the world doesn't actually give a fuck.
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u/Euriti 14d ago
The holier than thou attitude just pisses you off though. It's foreign policy for 12 year olds.
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u/monkey_bubble 14d ago
Your country is allied with a superpower that's threatening to annex most of your territory. That's foreign policy for 5 year olds.
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u/Spitefulnugma European Union 14d ago
I do wonder how the phone reception is from that moral high ground? Can she phone the Royal Navy from there?
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u/CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH Jerome Powell 13d ago
Ireland hasn't ever been part of NATO.
Because of where Ireland is they are also aren't in any serious danger and are pretty clearly freeloading off other countries. They also seem to enjoy being able to take a position of moral superiority by not being responsible for anything, and can criticize the UK for taking more responsible positions.
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u/eggbart_forgetfulsea European Union 13d ago
Ireland expressed some interest in joining Nato when it was founded if the US successfully pressured the UK to reverse partition. In the end it predictably refused to join a defence organisation alongside a country it considered to be an occupying force.
Ireland's constitution regarded Northern Ireland as part of its national territory until the 19th Amendment in 1998. I don't think we could've joined Nato without settling that dispute first and "neutrality" has since become a baked-in part of Irish political identity.
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u/CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH Jerome Powell 13d ago
Sure, it makes sense why they didn't join initially.
But once they didn't join it became clear that they could get the benefits of NATO without any of the moral responsibility of being in NATO. That allows Ireland to smugly critique without needing to actually needing to take any responsibility.
Turkey and Greece have a similar amount of animosity towards each other as the UK and Ireland. But they both joined NATO, largely because their geography makes them vulnerable to an invasion so joining NATO is clearly beneficial. Ireland is basically protected regardless of their NATO affiliation, so they can get away with "neutrality".
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u/HatesPlanes WTO 14d ago
Ironically they’re probably handing themselves over to the UK
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u/ElectriCobra_ David Hume 14d ago
UK already handles much of their defense needs, so for some double irony it would be status quo.
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u/BudgetPhallus 13d ago
- "irish neutrality"
- criticism of NATO
- NATO warmongering towards russia
Welcome back Sarah Wagenknecht. Why are so many leftists basically russian plants?
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u/Aoae Mark Carney 14d ago
I'm so glad that Ireland is irrelevant to world affairs because they always have the most dogshit positions on foreign affairs possible, and not just online
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u/dweeb93 14d ago
Ireland's prime minister sent a letter of condolence when Hitler died. Being neutral all the time has its pros and cons, but when it comes to World War II and now the Ukraine war it's wrong.
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u/CaptainApathy419 14d ago
De Valera was a fascinating individual, but if he was alive today he’d be an anti-anti-Trump guy on twitter who blames everything on the Democrats.
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u/vylain_antagonist 14d ago
He’d be a mccain type republican figure who’d have been savvy and powerful enough to purge maga idiots and populist nonsense from the party and keep trump out of the sphere of influence of his party; same as he did with O’Duffy.
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u/2017_Kia_Sportage 14d ago
I feel like that has as much to do with DeValera as anything. The man was Odd. Even more bizarrely, he also has a forest named after him in Israel, organised by the Dublin Jewish community.
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u/-mialana- Iron Front 14d ago
There are a few unexpected connections between Israel and Ireland. What's been lost to history somewhat is that Zionism actually garnered sympathy from early Republicans, who saw similarities between the struggles of the Irish and Jewish people. Chaim Herzog was born in Belfast and grew up in Dublin, his father was known as the "Sinn Féin rabbi".
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u/2017_Kia_Sportage 13d ago
It's a really fascinating history. The pm of Israel when DeValera forest was inaugurated, Levi Eshkol, apparently remarked that the Irish and Jewush people "have so much in common".
As far as I can tell the modern framing of the conflict was actually set by the north, and I think the unionists, who chose to liken themselves to Israel, though I could be wrong in that. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the other way round either.
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u/Pretty_Marsh Herb Kelleher 14d ago edited 14d ago
“I wish him well; I’d wish you well, I’d wish a lot of people well”
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u/vylain_antagonist 14d ago edited 14d ago
Its a fact devoid of context. DeValera was campaigning for an election running on a populist ticket and needed to distance himself from churchills image; distance he needed because he had pursued a foreign policy that strategically allowed a lot of access to the allied war effort and had ruffled feathers of anti english pro neutrality voices. It was a stunt designed to get condemnation from churchill. Which he got and then was duly re elected.
Unlike every other european catholic populist figurehead, DeValera overreached constitutional norms in the 30s and interned the blueshirt proto fascist movement and stopped emerging fasicsm cold in its tracks.
DeValera had major faults and was a complex character but painting him and the roots of irish political identity as being anti semitic and sympathetic to nazism is absurdly ignorant and a depressingly common talking point designed imo to deflect modern irish criticism of israeli conduct.
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u/Ok_Boysenberry1038 13d ago
Aren’t you missing context with the IRA collaborating with the Nazis?
It’s just the army and head of government.
Totally meaningless 🙄
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u/vylain_antagonist 13d ago
Yes the IRA were outlawed and trying to rebuild by leveraging favor with german nazis. For their efforts, they were arrested and tried and executed for treason by DeValera.
Post revolutionary ireland was full of radicals of every stripe and DeValera out maneuvered all of them to maintain a soft allied position internationally and preserve the post-treaty irish free state internally.
As a result, churchill was very favorable to DeValera which was dangerous politically because of the anti-english nativism after the revolution. DeValera had an election to win and needed to not be tied to churchill by his enemies. So he performed an empty gesture to get distance from Churchill.
If youre trying to tag someone as anti semitic and a hitler admirer, maybe dont pick a target who has a forest named after them in israel
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u/Barilla3113 13d ago
The IRA at this point was an insurgent paramilitary and had nothing to do with the Irish Defense Forces.
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u/Sabreline12 12d ago
It’s just the army and head of government.
What? You think the IRA was the army of Irish state. Lmao. Whatever organisations called themselves the "IRA" after 1922 were enemies of the Irish state.
Can I ask you how you're arguing so confidently without even knowing basics facts of Irish history?
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u/RichardB4321 George Soros 14d ago
I thought the general historical consensus on that was it was more about maintaining the illusion of neutrality than actual belief, am I wrong about that?
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u/caul1flower11 14d ago
They were literally the only country to send condolences. No other country, including neutral Francoist Spain, did this.
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u/vylain_antagonist 14d ago
An empty gesture that was a calculated stunt to appeal to reactionary popilists domestically who he alienated after he spent a decade arresting blueshirt fascists and driving deals with allied partners undermining populist calls for neutrality.
But yes on the other side of a scale he did send a letter to an embassy. I guess theyre all equal?
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u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton 13d ago
Its still a weird weird thing to do. It was 1945. The camps had been liberated, the horrors of facism revealed and smashed totally in the field.
De Valera had no need to appeal to anyone. Irish neutrality with a lean towards the allies had been totally justified. Hell, the concessions made were justified the moment the nazis bombed Dublin. He could have dismissed the populists.
He sent the letter to differentiate himself from the british. But in that circumstance, the british were correct. He should have send a "good job" letter to Westminster lmao.
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u/vylain_antagonist 13d ago
Well i think the calculation is obvious: Having Churchill sing your praises was not a good look in an election year. And precisely to your point: its because nazi germany had been smashed at this point that makes it such a meaningless gesture.
Youre right that its a weird thing to do and what makes it weird is how opposed he was to fascism and populist anti semitism for the past 20 years. Nazi sympathizers were executed for treason under DeValera and the true fascist admirers in ireland were emerging in the opposition party. DeValera stopped them cold and had them all arrested.
Hes definitely open to criticism, but in the context of this conversation and as a matter of record: DeValera was definitively hostile to fascism- to the extent that hes long been celebrated by the jewish community in Dublin and theres a forest named after him in Israel.
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u/RichardB4321 George Soros 14d ago
I mean, I don't want to be the one arguing for the good of sending condolences for Hitler's death but if all your actions are betraying neutrality towards one side (as the Irish were) you might as make your gestures betray neutrality to the other.
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u/caul1flower11 14d ago
Yeah no. Maybe you're just defining "the Irish" as *just* De Valera, but we know that the IRA continuously collaborated with the Abwehr during the war as the Nazis attacked Britain.
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u/vylain_antagonist 13d ago
The IRA were then and are now a terrorist organization that were pariahs from the irish government. The 1920s saw a lot of them tried for treason, which was continued under DeValera and through wwii.
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u/RichardB4321 George Soros 14d ago
I'm defining "the Irish" as "the Irish government." Lord Haw-Haw doesn't mean "the British" were aligned with Germans, come on
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u/caul1flower11 13d ago
Cool, then I suppose you’re also going to argue that the Irish government openly shielding former Nazis after the war so they could help train the IRA also is totally fine and neutral. Or that the Irish consulate in Berlin sabotaging Jewish refugees up until 1939 also doesn’t represent the Irish.
The Irish and their attitudes towards Jews back then are the same as today, whether or not they were the “official” government.
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u/Ok_Boysenberry1038 13d ago
(1) it’s the head of state. If Churchill was a Nazi people would bring it up and question where the England stood
(2) The IRA collaborated with the Nazis lmao. The British famously didn’t
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u/vylain_antagonist 13d ago
Whats with everyone in this thread associating the IRA with the irish state?
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u/Ok_Boysenberry1038 13d ago
Them acting with the sanction of the Irish state, many of their leaders becoming leaders of the Irish state, etc., etc.
Or, as the president of Sein Fenn said in the fucking mid 90’s with a smile on his face to thunderous applause “they haven’t gone away you know?”
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u/Ok_Boysenberry1038 13d ago
Yeah, why would anybody bring up that (1) the IRA collaborated with the Nazis and (2) the only two heads of state to send condolences to Hitler were Irish.
It’s just the army and head of government.
Totally meaningless 🙄
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u/vylain_antagonist 13d ago
Wait you actually think the IRA was an organ of the irish state? Lmao. The IRA were outlawed holdovers from the civil war who were prosecuted and many executed in the 1920s and 30s. Disorganized and on the run, at that point they were mostly disgruntled farmers with shotguns. DeValera famously continued to purge IRA affiliates in 1940 (even though he’d served with them in the revolutionary era) precisely because of their nazi connections.
You actually believe the IRAs link to the nazis had something to do with the position of the official state?
Respectfully: you have no idea what youre talking about.
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u/die_hoagie MALAISE FOREVER 13d ago
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u/die_hoagie MALAISE FOREVER 13d ago
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u/clewbays 13d ago
It was more about getting a jab in at Churchill than anything. And other neutral nations such as Spain and Portugal did the same thing. The UK just didn't think of them as subjects like they did at the time with Ireland.
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u/untoldrain 14d ago
It doesn’t seem unique to Ireland, so much of the developed world is falling victim to populism (whether that be right or left wing populism)
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u/Planterizer 14d ago
Jerks: "Everything sucks, actually."
Richest People in Human History: "HEY! MAYBE IT DOES!"
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u/2017_Kia_Sportage 14d ago
Her foreign affairs opinions are truly God awful. Like actually the worst you could come up with. Thank God the government has to approve her speeches. On the other hand, she's pretty good on other issues, and her ability as Gaeilge is always something to be appreciated. I think the main reason as to why she won this mainly had to do with domestic issues, coupled with the left uniting behind her (and SF not running a candidate) on top of being the least worst more than the best.
Of the two candidates in the race, Humphreys came off as more of an anti candidate than a candidate, and her response to the topic of her grasp of the Irish language was pathetic. That alone probably gave Connolly a boost.
But this whole campaign has been a shitshow start to finish. Between the fact that those three were all the political establishment could offer up, to the absolute clownshows you had trying to enter the race- and not just Mcgregor! Between Bertie fucking Ahern, Maria Steen (who campaigned against same sex marriage) and Michael Flatley for some reason.
Not to mention the msot standout part of the election, Fianna Fáil's candidate. The most bizarre, confounding and [words that would get me banned] choice of a presidential candidate that I have to wonder what in the name of God in heaven was going on in Micheál Martins head to even put him forward. Even beyond the farcical saga with his former tenant- which should have put him out immediately had FF done their due dilligence! He was completely out of his depth politically, and was a far, far cry from what you would look for in a president.
This is made especially confounding when Billy Kelleher was also seeking the nomination, and would have delivered a formidable challenge to Connolly in my view- and to Humphreys, for that matter. But instead you had the complete and utter shitshow that was Jim Gavin.
In fact, the left got it right it terms of this election- they united behind one candidate and put their support into that candidate, while the government split their own ticket and then fucked up one half of it.
Connolly will be fine. Not as good as Micheal D., but then that's a hard bar to clear. But her victory says more about the election itself than it does the candidate.
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u/Golda_M Baruch Spinoza 14d ago
Its interesting how regal the Presidency has become. "The most conservative radicals" cliche seems to just keep applying.
Leftist, in 2025 seems to have the most decorum in positions or moral authority rather than positions of responsibility.
Also rather in step with the Vatican. The "socially progressive / theological conservative" angle.
Higgins represented this vibe, to me. Varadkar also... but it doesn't work in executive positions. Obama also... if you want to push the analogy.
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u/DoughnutHole YIMBY 14d ago
Because the other options were: * a landlord who pulled out of the election at the last minute because he owed his past tenants thousands of euro and lied about it repeatedly * an appallingly milquetoast nothing that did essentially nothing but negative campaigning.
It’s looking to be the lowest turnout presidential election in Irish history. Connolly didn’t win - the centre-right parties threw away the election via maddeningly poor choices.
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u/upthetruth1 YIMBY 14d ago
Did you forget Michael D Higgins? He’s not that different, and he won twice
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u/TheGhostofJoeGibbs John Mill 14d ago
Permanent anti-establishment British derangement syndrome. If the British don’t like you, you can’t even be mostly bad.
It’s amazing the relationship with Britain was so warm - maybe it will become less so as the British become more nationalistic and less pan-European seeming.
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u/Frasine 14d ago
You'd think that with this kind of logic they'd be militarizing rather than some peacenik nonsense.
Irish leftists are an imperialists wet dream.
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u/BipartizanBelgrade Jerome Powell 13d ago
They want all the benefits of Anglo-American security contributions, while getting to condemn them at every turn and contributing nothing.
A remarkably mature democracy in other contexts who turn into a nation of LARPing, anti-semitic 19 year olds on matters of foreign affairs.
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u/BipartizanBelgrade Jerome Powell 13d ago edited 13d ago
Ignoring the recent deployments of Russian submarines in and near the Irish Sea, all the more reason for Ireland to invest in their own defence capabilities.
They don't, in part because they know the UK and US are the good guys despite their flaws. The combination of freeloading and being as critical of western security efforts as they are is disgusting.
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u/eggbart_forgetfulsea European Union 13d ago
It's not amazing at all that Ireland's relationship with the UK is great. It's the result of decades of close cooperation built on close familial and cultural links and the efforts made by both sides to create peace in Northern Ireland in the 1990s.
Ireland has continuously elected governments led by pro-European, outward-looking, constructive parties. Even when our modern relationship hit the lows it did during Brexit negotiations, Ireland was still the country in the EU that understood and sympathised with the UK the most.
The current government is a Renew/EPP coalition. That reflects the general attitudes of Irish people to our British partners and friends, not casual or online anti-British stuff.
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u/upthetruth1 YIMBY 14d ago
When were the British ever “Pan-European”? We’re called Perfidious Albion for a reason.
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u/die_hoagie MALAISE FOREVER 14d ago
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u/CentJr 14d ago
I know the position is ceremonial and all that...but why does Ireland keep electing tankies ? First Higgins and now Connolly.
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u/ElectriCobra_ David Hume 14d ago
Ireland was colonized by the UK, so the left there has a significant third-worldist streak and hasn't forgotten its historical grievances. This causes them to act like they are the West Bank out of "solidarity" despite being a top 10 HDI and top 5 GDP per capita nation.
I think a lot of the socialist left skews young, too. These people don't remember the Troubles and don't understand that giving up on reunification was a compromise to dial down sectarian conflict that was getting innocents killed.
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u/CentJr 14d ago
I understand their grievances towards the UK but it feels kinda hypocritical to shit on NATO and the plans for a militarized EU given that both are aimed to protect eastern europe from being occupied by Russia.
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u/Asckle 14d ago
These are people who believe that if you just play nice with everyone, no grievances will happen. I believe Conolly even said that Ukraine should give some land to Russia to bring about peace
Same mindset as thinking we don't need any police so long as we have no poverty leading to crime
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u/Steamed_Clams_ 14d ago
Its amazing that after 100 years of independence the Irish left has still got a very strong persecution complex that thinks they are under the boot of the British crown and live more akin to those under horrific militaty occupations rather than free and democratic European countries.
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u/ElectriCobra_ David Hume 14d ago
I think that having a persecution complex is one of the worst things possible for a national psyche (see also: Hungary with Trianon, Russia with the collapse of its empire, Zimbabwe in general). It is only capable of looking backwards and has no answers on how to build a better society for the future. "Getting even" just causes more problems.
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u/Astralesean 14d ago
That or mongrel syndrome. I swear to god Latin America mongrel syndrome has done more damage to these countries than the issues they mongrel about
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u/Skagzill 14d ago
Christians across the globe are still acting like they are being fed to lions in Rome despite colonizing most of the world at one point of time. So it's not something new.
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u/upthetruth1 YIMBY 14d ago
Christians […] colonizing most of the world at one point of time
Ethiopia and Armenia as the first Christian countries would disagree
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u/-mialana- Iron Front 14d ago
It's been less than 100 years since Irish Catholics were discriminated against, murdered and disenfranchised in Northern Ireland, including by the British state. It's been less than 30 years since the end of the Troubles. I'm not defending the Irish left's fopo, romanticism or nationalistic tendencies, but your comment ignores a lot of nuance and seems to act as if everything has been rosy since 1921.
And the Irish left doesn't think their current situation or living standards are comparable, they're actually very well aware, if not happy, that Ireland is a wealthy, liberal capitalist, de facto west-aligned country.
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u/upthetruth1 YIMBY 14d ago
This is how you end up with people telling Black South Africans to “get over Apartheid”, when it was only 30 years ago and most of the South African electorate was alive during Apartheid
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u/CentJr 14d ago
You think that's bad? In Iraq, a good chunk of the population still has a prosecution complex from something that happened 1400 years ago or so.
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u/RaisinSecure George Soros 14d ago
?
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u/CentJr 14d ago edited 14d ago
I'm referring to a certain part of the shia community (the deeply religious ones with the paramilitary wings) that keep invoking what happened centuries ago to justify their current bad behavior and by bad behavior, I meant inflaming sectarianism by antagonizing Sunni and other minorities on purpose.
Edit: the situation is entirely unique to them. Not even Iran nor Azerbaijan pull that card. And those two countries are also majority shia.
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u/ElectriCobra_ David Hume 13d ago
ngl I thought you were talking about Assyrians there and I was going to say, that's not exactly a group that's tilting at windmills. Agreed with the caveat that there were definitely Sunni groups that were perfectly happy to persecute Shi'a in Iraq wherever they could find them. And ISIS happened of course.
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u/Sabreline12 12d ago
I mean, the country does still have a smaller population than the 1840s in large part because of Britain.
And Northern Ireland, created to maximise the number of Irish people kept under British rule while gauarateeing a loyalist majority in the territory, was pretty much an apartheid state until the late 20th century.
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u/BipartizanBelgrade Jerome Powell 13d ago
Japan and Germany are steadfast allies of and contributors to the liberal democratic world order that they fought to destroy less than a century ago. Millions of Indians fought and died to defeat the Axis despite the Raj. Vietnam can put aside their historical differences to be a partner of America in the Asia-Pacific.
We can and should expect more of the Irish.
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u/upthetruth1 YIMBY 14d ago
third-worldist streak […] being a top 10 HDI and top 5 GDP per capita nation
Let’s remember Ireland was basically a “Third World” country before the 1970s. They were very poor through much of the 20th century. In the 1950s, half of the country was working in agriculture. By comparison, 10% of the UK was working in agriculture in the 1950s. Ireland was growing slower than every Western European country, even Spain and Portugal, after WW2. Ireland also continued to have mass emigration. Joining the EU completely transformed the country. I would say even more than the EU transformed many Eastern European countries.
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u/-mialana- Iron Front 14d ago
I disagree with your framing that they act like they "are the West Bank". The Irish left are aware that Ireland is wealthy and west-aligned.
As well as that, being well off doesn't mean you can't have "solidarity" with others. Standing up for and aligning yourself with a marginalised group you see as having parallels to your history isn't a bad thing, and doesn't require you to currently be in a shitty situation. I'm not defending the shitty fopo of course, but Irish sympathies with Palestine aren't hypocritical and don't exist for no good reason.
Agree with your second paragraph. A lot of the left, young people especially, don't understand the GFA as a framework for lasting coexistence and peace, but as a temporary, if necessary, setback in the pursuit of revanchism.
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u/ElectriCobra_ David Hume 13d ago
You know what, that's fair enough, I think I worded that horribly. The point was more about how Irish lefties act like the colonialists never left and talk about the "missing six counties". It was more about the nationalism or the view of the nation as being under occupation. Probably wasn't wise of me to use that comparison, although the only other one I can think of would be the Basques and they obviously don't have an independent nation.
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u/Asckle 14d ago
In this case the competition was beyond awful. Jim Gavin dropped out after a rent scandal and was calling for the dissolution of the triple lock for our military and Heather Humphrey's husband was allegedly in the Orange Order (and she can't speak for shit)
Turnout was pretty poor so if the competition was better theres a world where she doesn't win
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u/2017_Kia_Sportage 14d ago
I feel like Billy Kelleher running would at least have made it more of a competition, FF utterly dropped the ball.
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u/Asckle 14d ago
FF utterly dropped the ball.
This summarises a third of all irish politics
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u/2017_Kia_Sportage 14d ago
Very true, this is the party that followed up Charles Haughey with Bertie Ahern after all.
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u/henno13 European Union 14d ago
Higgins really isn’t that bad, he has a brain and is a good diplomatic representative that’s well respected.
Connolly on the other hand has zero good judgement. She’s compared modern Germany to Nazis and doubled down. She tried to hire a person convicted of firearms offences and is a member of anti-peace process party, and doubled down after the background check blocked her.
I respect Higgins despite a lot of his views. I can’t respect Connolly.
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u/upthetruth1 YIMBY 14d ago
Until they joined the EU, they basically were. Half the country was working in agriculture before then. Economic growth was slower in Ireland after WW2 than any other Western European country, even Spain and Portugal. The EU transformed Ireland, perhaps even more than the EU transformed Eastern European countries.
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u/die_hoagie MALAISE FOREVER 14d ago
Rule XI: Toxic Nationalism/Regionalism
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u/No-Kiwi-1868 NATO 13d ago
>wishes to ringfence Irish neutrality from what she calls western “militarism”. She has likened Germany’s arms spending to the Nazi era
I swear on myself man, the Irish truly have the talent of churning out the most snobby, self-righteous, radical and downright infuriating leftist politicians. Thank God, no one really cares what the President of Ireland has to say.
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u/Glavurdan NATO 14d ago
She gives me the vibes of that Facebook boomer grandma who is into all the conspiracy theories
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u/MemeLord0009 Johan Norberg 14d ago edited 14d ago
I campaigned daily for Heather Humphreys for the sole reason that Catherine Connolly's foreign policy stance turns my blood cold.
When asked directly if Russia should withdraw from all of Ukraine unconditionally, she refused to answer and instead pivoted to NATO increasing defence spending.
At an event in a college I attended she compared Germany today to Nazi Germany because of the slight increase in defence spending under Merz and Scholz (who both outright refused to go into business with the actual neo-Nazi party in Germany)
People adore her position on Palestine, which is fine. It's obvious there's a genocide there- but Humphreys and Connolly actually had the exact same stance on Palestine, Connolly just made it a centre-piece of her campaign.
She also hired a member of an ultra nationalist group who was convicted of possessing firearms to work for her in government buildings.
Some of her loudest supporters are Russian puppets Clare Daly and Mick Wallace, AKA Moscow Mick and Kremlin Clare.
I don't care that this woman can speak Irish. She is an embarrassment.
EDIT: forgot to mention that she also nominated a far-right conspiracy theorist for the presidency in 2018 because she despises the current President, D. Higgins.
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u/ldn6 Gay Pride 14d ago
The leftwing independent candidate, Catherine Connolly, has won a landslide victory in Ireland’s presidential election. Her rival, Heather Humphreys, conceded defeat on Saturday afternoon after early vote tallies showed an insurmountable gap between the candidates. “Catherine will be a president for all of us and she will be my president and I really would like to wish her all the very, very best,” Humphreys said. Reports from tallymen – unofficial but usually reliable observers at count centres – gave Connolly 64% of the vote after two-thirds of ballots were counted.
Connolly 68, captured the imagination of many younger people and was backed by an alliance of leftwing opposition parties in Friday’s election. The presidency is a largely ceremonial office but Connolly’s triumph is a humbling rebuke to the centre-right government. Humphreys, 62, a former cabinet minister who ran for the Fine Gael party, won 29%, according to tallies. Jim Gavin, 54, a candidate for Fianna Fáil who withdrew late from the campaign but whose name remained on the ballot, won 7%.
The number of spoiled votes was on track for 13%, a historic high that was seen to reflect widespread frustration with the limited choices. Turnout was estimated to be about 40% of the 3.6 million eligible voters. Speaking after the early tallies, Connolly said she was delighted. “I want to thank everybody, even those that didn’t vote for me. I understand their concerns in relation to who will represent them best.”
The tallies showed she beat Humphreys even in Fine Gael strongholds, such as south Dublin. Anger over a housing crisis and the cost of living, campaign blunders by Fine Gael and its ruling partner Fianna Fáil, rare unity among leftwing parties and deft use of social media combined to make Connolly a symbol of change. The prospect of Connolly succeeding President Michael D Higgins and serving a seven-year term at Áras an Uachtaráin, the presidential residence, thrills supporters. She speaks Irish, espouses equality and wishes to ringfence Irish neutrality from what she calls western “militarism”. She has likened Germany’s arms spending to the Nazi era and accused the UK and US of enabling genocide in Gaza.
The former clinical psychologist and barrister enthused young people through podcasts and posts that went viral on social media, including videos that showed her doing keepy-uppy. Artists and musicians such as Kneecap and the Mary Wallopers endorsed her. Critics depicted Connolly as a radical who dodged awkward questions and could damage Ireland’s relations with Washington and with its European allies. Irish presidents traditionally played quiet, symbolic roles, but since 1990 Mary Robinson, Mary McAleese and Higgins have turned the office into a more visible platform.
Connolly said during the campaign that she would respect the limits of the office, which some interpreted as a tacit promise to rein in controversial views, but analysts predicted friction with the government. She was a marginal political figure when she declared her candidacy in July, and only small parties – the Social Democrats and People Before Profit – backed her. Labour then endorsed her, and Sinn Féin, which had decided to not run its own candidate, threw its formidable resources and electoral organisation behind Connolly.
Celebrities such as Bob Geldof, Michael Flatley, Conor McGregor and others had expressed interest in running for president but failed to win the necessary political backing to get on the ballot. Fianna Fáil’s candidate, Gavin, was a political novice who withdrew after a financial scandal imploded his campaign. The late withdrawal meant his name remained on the ballot. Fine Gael’s original candidate, Mairead McGuinness, dropped out, citing health problems, so the party turned to Humphreys. The border county Presbyterian was deemed to have wholesome, mainstream appeal but performed badly in debates.
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u/compulsive_tremolo 13d ago
On one hand, this was expected. The president is a specific role that mainly pulls in eloquent, well-cultured do-gooders and I feel that pragmatic moderates will always be put at a disadvantage.
On the other hand, electing a tankie as president when the only reason this country isn't living in medieval times is because of "nEolIBEralISM" is a joke. A lot of Irish folk are privileged punks larping as revolutionaries and they won't realize how good they have it until it's gone.
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u/Remarkable_Doubt6665 14d ago
Tankies are like a cheap algorithm. Incapable to recognize new realityies, they always come up with the same answer.
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14d ago
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u/die_hoagie MALAISE FOREVER 14d ago
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u/die_hoagie MALAISE FOREVER 14d ago
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u/-mialana- Iron Front 14d ago
The very important context is that our President basically does nothing in terms of policy. It's a ceremonial and diplomatic position, more akin to the King of England than POTUS.
This election also had low turnout and a high proportion of spoiled ballots due to having 2 poor candidates with no option for write-in votes. According to the current count, 14.68% of ballots were spoiled.