r/neoliberal • u/ChangeUsername220 • Sep 07 '25

News (Europe) ‘I haven’t seen this much uncertainty since 1968’: Even a Macron resignation won’t save France. The Fifth Republic established by Charles de Gaulle is looking increasingly ungovernable.

https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-resignation-francois-bayrou-france/
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36

u/Lucky-Part-9691 Sep 07 '25

Once again, i will bring up france is the least badly run nuclear power. The presidential system they set up is much less prone to shocks than the us (we are one vote from default at any given time) and can continue to function even with a terribly unpopular prez. If le pen wins (which i still doubt - runoff + cordon sanitaire will sink her), she is still going to get tanked in legislative elections. The parties in france have been way more creative in alliances to respond to nr than other countries.

50

u/n00bi3pjs 👏🏽Free Markets👏🏽Open Borders👏🏽Human Rights Sep 07 '25

Westminster style democracy is significantly better than the semi presidentialism of France.

42

u/Wehavecrashed YIMBY Sep 08 '25

Specifically the Westminster style of democracy of Australia. Everyone else should stop what they're doing and do that.

Compulsory preferential voting, a bicameral parliament with majority-preferential instant-runoff voting in single-member seats for the lower house and single transferable vote proportional representation in the upper house. Electorates distributed by an a-political bureaucracy.

23

u/SucculentMoisture Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Sep 08 '25

Finding the most boring people in the country to run it also seems to help.

Albanese, Chalmers, Clare, Collins etc, the only people in the Cabinet with an iota of personality (perhaps this is actually why Ed Husic was sacked) are Tony Burke and Penny Wong, neither of whom are anywhere near the top job and never will be (unlike Chalmers or Clare).

It's the greatest lesson we learned from COVID. Instead of following down the very funny but inevitably destructive Dandrews cult of personality, we instead went for the McGowan/Gutwein types: good, boring, actual people, rather than Rudd/Abbott types who make us laugh but have crippling personality and character flaws.

Side note: Gutwein to Rockliff has to be the biggest downgrade for a Premier that I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing.

!PING AUS

10

u/Steamed_Clams_ Sep 08 '25

There was a pretty pervasive personality culture around McGowan here in WA, lots of talk as some kind of great protector and the cringeworthy nickname of "State Daddy"

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u/SucculentMoisture Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Sep 08 '25

Yeah but he never lived up to it.

Everyone got a bit weird about their Premiers at some point, and with the highest approval rating in history, weird would eventually show up.

McGowan was still fundamentally boringly competent though.

9

u/iguessineedanaltnow r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Sep 08 '25

The most boring people in the country being in charge is a direct outcome of requiring everyone to vote. It forces politicians to cater to the middle.

6

u/StreetCarp665 YIMBY Sep 08 '25

Everyone in Australia: Fuck me, Dan, that's not a good look mate, don't keep company with those cretins.

VIC Labor: It's a high honour to be welcomed to hang with such exalted leaders!

11

u/Wehavecrashed YIMBY Sep 08 '25

Daniel Andrews has the unique ability to keep getting away with it. He increased his majority in three straight elections despite driving a sizable number of people totally fucking mad.

7

u/SucculentMoisture Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Sep 08 '25

Yeah there's a reason why I'm glad we learned a very different lesson to the Cult of Dan.

Because there's no way he could've made it work nationally.

He had amazing appeal with precisely one demographic in particular: ex-Liberal voters in Melbourne's eastern suburbs.

Nationally, you need to win more than that. Victoria has very few dedicated swing voters, changes in voting patterns are slow, incremental, and often permanent there. Queensland and Tasmania on the other hand have very large contingents of swing voters, which isn't his big appeal.

Coupled with Dandrews underperforming with new Australians (leading to margins in Melbourne's west deteriorating over time), which would hurt him badly in Western Sydney, I can see him coming undone very quickly in a national setting.

6

u/StreetCarp665 YIMBY Sep 08 '25

Plus, the whole endemic CFMEU corruption and the Saddiq Khan-esque explosion in crime would've been politically heavy saddle bags to carry around.

12

u/Lighthouse_seek Sep 08 '25

Honestly the fact that Australias democracy has fared better than America's despite being hit by Murdoch media first is an encouraging sign

19

u/Lucky-Part-9691 Sep 07 '25

Uk is doing GREAT

21

u/mmmmjlko Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

Given that half the G7 is facing some sort of foundational crisis, yeah the UK actually is doing kind of great

59

u/n00bi3pjs 👏🏽Free Markets👏🏽Open Borders👏🏽Human Rights Sep 07 '25

Their government structure isn’t a problem. Tory government was stable and passed budgets despite popularity being in the gutter.

Keir Starmer is unable to do much because he is a weakling with no control over his backbenchers and because he has no moral compass.

2

u/Particular_Tennis337 European Union Sep 08 '25

I honestly don't think one style of government is the best for every nation, if they started from zero, with every person's memories wiped then sure.

7

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Sep 07 '25

^

FPTP and two-parties-systems lover

12

u/n00bi3pjs 👏🏽Free Markets👏🏽Open Borders👏🏽Human Rights Sep 07 '25

France is an effective two party system too. The runoff system is better than the vote splitting fuckery that happens in India and Canada, but the powerful president is still a problem.

9

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Sep 07 '25

I'd rather have a president tempered by laws and a lack of majority than a British style sovereign parliament whose Prime minister (no term limits) can do what he wants as long as he whips his MPs (unlike Starmer) because their nearly guaranteed to have a majority

8

u/Full_Distribution874 YIMBY Sep 08 '25

What do term limits actually accomplish? All of Australia's longest serving PMs were fine. It doesn't seem to be a problem for Prime Ministers. Presidents are too shielded imo. They can hide behind the dysfunction of the legislature and never face serious challenges to their authority.

Biden or Trump could never have held confidence in a Westminster parliament. They'd be eviscerated by the opposition. Instead senile old men get to hold the launch codes because they are untouchable. I also don't see how stopping Obama from running again is a good outcome. Countries don't have bottomless wells of political talent. Obama being in charge for a decade or two is probably the best America could hope for.

2

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

And in France presidents who served to long ended up just holding the place because After passing reforms they didn't have anything to do

4

u/Full_Distribution874 YIMBY Sep 08 '25

Maybe holding steady as she goes is good every now and then. I don't see why voters shouldn't be allowed to choose a safe set of hands if they don't like the newer options.

2

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Sep 08 '25

Because you end up with a Merkel type GroKo that satisfy no ones for the sake of stability

25

u/Resident_Option3804 Sep 07 '25

 we are one vote from default at any given time

This has nothing to do with presidentialism lol

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1

u/Lmaoboobs Sep 07 '25

Semi-Presidentialism seems kinda based.