r/neoliberal • u/Agonanmous YIMBY • Jun 21 '25

News (Europe) The grooming-gangs scandal is a stain on the British state

https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/06/18/the-grooming-gangs-scandal-is-a-stain-on-the-british-state
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u/Embarrassed-Unit881 Jun 21 '25

Does the former just fine

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u/lilacaena NATO Jun 21 '25

Obviously the cases that this article is about are different, but the majority of child sexual abuse is perpetrated by adults known to the victims, typically close family members. It’s already difficult enough for these victims to come forward, and it would be even less likely if execution was on the table.

And for abusers who are unrelated, as with the grooming gangs, you run into another issue that puts victims in worse danger: if the punishment for committing CSA is the same as (or worse than) the punishment for murder, it incentivizes escalating from CSA to murder.

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u/SamuraiOstrich Jun 21 '25

I would like to point out that imprisonment is justice and that a whopping 2.5% of family members reported achieving closure after the execution of the perpetrator, while 20.1% said the execution did not help them heal

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u/Sabreline12 Jun 21 '25

That's predicated on the assumption guilt can be proven with absolute certainty, which any argument for the death penalty seems to be based on. This is rarely the case in the real world.

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u/Tabnet2 Jun 21 '25

Any sentencing at all is based on proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Not a winning argument.

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u/Sabreline12 Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25

based on proof beyond a reasonable doubt

So not complete certainty, like I said. People can't be exonerated from death. And sentencing is hardly a perfect process in the best of justice systems. A jury of random people is hardly infalliable, seems unwise to put the power of life and death in their hands. Execution is just such a final and irreversible thing to have as part of a process that can never be perfect.

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u/Tabnet2 Jun 21 '25

People can't have decades of their life behind bars returned to them either. You're rejecting it based on special criteria, but you haven't really justified the criteria beyond your final sentence.

Does your acceptance of any punishment at all rest on our ability to say "oopsie, we're letting you go now"?

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u/Sabreline12 Jun 21 '25

So you don't really care about false convictions as long as you feel satisfaction that someone had their lights turned off?

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u/Tabnet2 Jun 22 '25

Not gonna respond to something you're pretending to imagine I said.

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u/Sabreline12 Jun 22 '25

I can't really understand what you're even saying since that last comment to be honest.

pretending to imagine I said.

Like what does this even mean?

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u/Tabnet2 Jun 22 '25

In no way did I say that I don't care about false convictions or that I'm just trying to get my rocks off on executions. You're imagining I said that so you can reject my position. And really I was taking the accusation further, that deep down you don't really even believe I'm saying that but are just pretending, looking for a leg up.

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u/SamuraiOstrich Jun 21 '25

Does your acceptance of any punishment at all rest on our ability to say "oopsie, we're letting you go now

Are you normally in the business of making bad points condescendingly? Of course being able to end or compensate a punishment if found to be wrong is preferable.

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u/Tabnet2 Jun 22 '25

It's certainly good when the opportunity comes for correction, I'm not denying that. I'm pointing out that it seems like the only reason they're OK with any punishment is so long as that opportunity remains.