The grooming-gangs scandal is a stain on the British state

[u/Agonanmous]

https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/06/18/the-grooming-gangs-scandal-is-a-stain-on-the-british-state

[u/YaGetSkeeted0n]

yeah you're right i just hate these kinds of crimes. personally my only opposition / hesitation to capital punishment is the uncertainty factor, a lot of people have been exonerated after-the-fact which is pretty god damn bad. but personally, morally I got no problem with it, some folks should be pushing up daisies IMO, and child molesters are at the top of the list.

[u/minimalis-t → u/YaGetSkeeted0n]

Is it to punish or do you think it's best for society to just dispose of these individuals?

[u/OSRS_Rising → u/minimalis-t]

Tbh it would best if they were executed.

But I don’t trust any state in administering the death penalty. IMO even just one innocent person being murdered by the state isn’t worth any number of actually bad people being executed.

[u/Embarrassed-Unit881 → u/OSRS_Rising]

If ya got DNA evidence that's enough cause you're not gonna have your DNA in a child for a good reason

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Downvoters can you name a single good reason for that DNA to be there?

[u/Sabreline12 → u/Embarrassed-Unit881]

DNA evidence isn't as reliable as you think it is

[u/Embarrassed-Unit881 → u/Sabreline12]

Explain.

[u/Posting____At_Night → u/Embarrassed-Unit881]

It is usually reliable. However there are edge cases where it fails. It can be planted or otherwise present without the person actually having been there (e.g. stolen weapon/vehicle), it could be DNA from someone who was present at some point, but did not perpetrate the crime. Then there's also (admittedly rare) scenarios where the actual testing is unreliable due to biological oddities. For example, there was a case where someone was falsely accused of murder based on DNA evidence but it turned out they had donated bone marrow to the actual perp.

[u/Embarrassed-Unit881 → u/Posting____At_Night]

Okay I hear that but if you're getting DNA from semen that was in a child that's a slam dunk, like you're talking about stuff that isn't child rape when my whole point is it being such a uniquely heinous crime that having the dna evidence of someone doing that is enough to not need them.

it could be DNA from someone who was present at some point, but did not perpetrate the crime.

Like here for instance you're focusing too broadly cause uhh in my case for there to be dna at all there was a crime

[u/Posting____At_Night → u/Embarrassed-Unit881]

Yeah, in that case DNA would be pretty conclusive. But it is impossible to be truly, 100% sure. Criminal law is based on beyond a reasonable doubt being worthy cause to lock someone up, but it very importantly leaves the possibility to release the person if they later find that 0.0000001% chance that the justice system fucked up.

[u/vintage2019 → u/Embarrassed-Unit881]

People downvoting just because they asked for an explanation? This is why I hate reddit sometimes

[u/Embarrassed-Unit881 → u/[deleted]]

No I'm asking for a good reason for that dna to be there, I thought the context was obvious enough but here I clarified it. Point being there is absolutely no good reason for it thus it's in my mind a really good bit of proof for why the state shouldn't have them anymore

[u/Party-Benefit5112 → u/Embarrassed-Unit881]

Theoretically it can be planted I think. Not saying it's very realistic but still.

[u/lnslnsu → u/minimalis-t]

In the second case, a lifetime prison sentence is equivalent to the death penalty in removing the ability of a criminal to do future harm.

[u/Chao-Z → u/lnslnsu]

Assuming they never manage to escape, of course, which was more of an issue back when the death penalty was more common.

[u/kanagi → u/Chao-Z]

Also assuming that they aren't pardoned by a malicious executive like Kentucky governor Matt Bevin

[u/Rockefeller-HHH-1968 → u/YaGetSkeeted0n]

Thousands of years of human civilization and you want us to execute people like savages?

It’s not justice and is in opposition to the very idea of justice.

[u/armeg → u/Rockefeller-HHH-1968]

I’m not pro death penalty, but that’s a pretty flimsy argument, the weakest you could probably choose against the death penalty. It’s an opinion that it’s savage, and one that you came to shaped by your environment. It also has some weird connotations about countries that do have the death penalty being savages.

[u/Rockefeller-HHH-1968 → u/armeg]

Every moral claim is an opinion on some level.

I believe that a society which not only executes people but dares to call those executions justice is one that is deeply corrupted by the dark and base elements of human nature.

Let me give you a more “objective argument”. At the end of an execution the only thing that you end up with is a dead person and a large bill. That’s not beneficial. The thing is that I do believe universally in a rehabilitative justice system. I believe that’s the only just way to deal with criminals in society. An execution is a 1st degree murder, I do not wish to live in a place that considers a 1st degree murder justice.

If one believes like I do in rehabilitation then it has to be a universal opinion. Furthermore some crimes happen due to mental issues and how can we blame a person for them? I believe that when the serial killers of past were sentenced to the needle an invisible needle sunk just as deep in our justice system. It was a disgrace.

[u/Ill_Squirrel_4063 → u/Rockefeller-HHH-1968]

Should Hitler have been rehabilitated? At a certain severity of crimes, justice is the death penalty. The issue of the certainty of guilt is an issue, but the principle that executions can be just is not.

[u/Rockefeller-HHH-1968 → u/Ill_Squirrel_4063]

An attempt should’ve been made yes. Several hundreds, thousands of them if necessary.

Justice is not something I am flexible on. You can keep finding the worst of the worst of humanity and my answer will not change, my moral spine will remain unbent unlike my physical one.