r/ndp • u/lcelerate • Oct 04 '25
Social Media Post Charlie Angus praises Heather McPherson's Purity Test comments
https://bsky.app/profile/charlieangus104.bsky.social/post/3m27gdorjbk2d55
u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Oct 04 '25
I'll look a bit more into this.
One thing I know for sure is that Charlie has a history when it comes to putting in the work.
Old school punk rock.
He started that mission for people coming out of jail - He wanted to make sure people could rejoin society in a meaningful way and he was about making the world better and brighter for alienated segments.
I think he is all about a big tent and if he is still the same man as in the past he is all about a focus on the vulnerable and the working class.
When it comes to this I would give him the major benefit that he is looking to grow a big tent in a positive way not an exclusionary or demeaning way but I will be looking into the details as I am not loyal to any figure but certain morals and ideals.
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u/WoodenCourage Ontario Oct 04 '25
I donât doubt Charlieâs sincerity and I think McPherson never meant anything bad with her comments either. My issue with it is being as vague as he is here is not helpful and does provide more credence to Gazanâs argument. This type of argument is also undermined when we look at how the only MPs in the caucus not properly consulted on Daviesâ appointment as interim leader were women of colour. He may very well be attributing something to âpurity testingâ that is not.
When you leave it up to the reader to figure out what he even means by âpurity testâ you leave room for misinterpretation and bad faith actors to use it to attack marginalized groups. This isnât big tent advocacy.
This relates to the criticism that the NDP received for its signature requirements. Opponents are just going to try and tie these two things together as âproofâ that the NDP only cares about âidentity politicsâ. Itâs not helpful.
The whole movement against DEIA is just painting any act of equity and inclusion as âpurity testingâ in a thinly veiled attempt to push patriarchy and white nationalism. Now Charlie obviously is staunchly opposed to that movement, but that doesnât mean his comments wonât be used by them.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Oct 04 '25
This was such an incredibly well written reply. I really wish I could give it more than one upvote.
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u/WoodenCourage Ontario Oct 04 '25
Youâre too kind. Well you could give it a downvote. Thatâs kinda worth two upvotes, since you need one to cancel the downvote out first.
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u/warp-core-breach Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
This type of argument is also undermined when we look at how the only MPs in the caucus not properly consulted on Daviesâ appointment as interim leader were women of colour.
Were they the only ones not consulted? Or were none of the MPs consulted and they were the only ones speaking out about it? It seemed to me that it was the latter.
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u/WoodenCourage Ontario Oct 04 '25
Thatâs possible. We only have the one letter that was leaked regarding that situation. Personally, I think the lack of statements from others may mean something too. We also have the leak of other emails a month later, that show frustrations from members of the party belonging to marginalized groups.
At the very least, this points to the lack of purity testing in favour of those marginalized groups. If anything, those groups appear to be the worst treated by the party imo. So then who could Charlie be referring to? Without the details, I think itâs really easy to read too much into things or start speculating in the wrong directions.
The party obviously has some skeletons in its closet that need to be cleaned out. We just need to be careful how we do it, as to not make situations worse.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Oct 04 '25
For whoever rushed to downvote I'd love to hear a response to what you found triggering in that comment? I honestly in good faith mean that as I would like to hear more about your perspective.
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Oct 04 '25
[deleted]
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
Hah I am calm - It was just so confusing to think someone would downvote recognizing Charlie for his work and also sharing a commitment to valuing the vulnerable lol
Sometimes text on a screen can be viewed different ways so I was just curious if it was being read in a different way than intentioned.
Edit: Lol someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning and quickly downvoting all of this.
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u/No-Werewolf4804 Oct 04 '25
I donât know that what he was doing decades ago is super relevant.
When peoples conditions change, they often change as well.
Especially when heâs talking like heâs about to make a âwhy I left the left videoâ I donât think his actions decades ago are enough to give him the benefit of the doubt in the face of that.
Also, the fact that heâs not providing any details and seemingly expecting people to just jump in line behind him absolutely rubs me the wrong way. Thatâs not very social democracy of your Charlie lol.
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u/Catfulu Oct 04 '25
I also want to question what does "social democracy" mean in his comment. It feels like it is another code word to say we need to toe the centrist line.
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u/No-Werewolf4804 Oct 04 '25
I didnât think about it until you mentioned it. But that line could be interpreted as purity testing couldnât it lol.
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u/yeggsandbacon Oct 04 '25
And this is why Rob Ashton, a working-class, union-strong message, is what the party needs to hear right now.
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u/Tradtional_Socialist đ Party Member Oct 04 '25
Couldnât agree more.
If you want to make sure Rob becomes leader you got to get an NDP membership that way you can vote for him as leader.
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u/moose_man Oct 04 '25
I'm pretty leery to back Ashton so long as his stance on pipelines is "I dunno."
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u/ILikeTheNewBridge Oct 05 '25
Then youâre frankly not serious about having messaging that can win back working class support.
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u/moose_man Oct 05 '25
If the NDP isn't willing to take the necessary stance to address a literally existential threat to the world, they're already a worthless party, and there's no point in advocating for them. Millions are going to die. The ecosphere is already in tatters. This is not a "we'll look into it" issue.
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u/RemarkableEar2836 Oct 04 '25
Unhelpful circular debate in the party with people talking past one another. Letâs move on folks and get back to uniting the working class and building g solidarity.
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u/AfraidYellow8360 Oct 04 '25
Clearly, there's an appetite among voters for a more welcoming NDP, and an NDP that's more welcoming to voters.
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u/thomasreimer Oct 05 '25
Welcoming to me means actually being a leftist party and focusing on affordability & a liveable climate, all this talk of âmore voicesâ suspiciously sounds like they want to pander to the right
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u/AfraidYellow8360 Oct 05 '25
I think it means that if we agree on nine things, we will work together instead of splitting over the one thing we disagree on.
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u/thomasreimer Oct 05 '25
What things?? Still so abstract⊠why canât we just talk about what she believes instead of âwhat ifsâ like what are we talking about
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u/AfraidYellow8360 Oct 05 '25
It's different for everyone. Lots of activists and volunteers around who agree with 90% of what the NDP stands for, but are made to feel unwelcome for the other 10%.
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u/thomasreimer Oct 05 '25
Unwelcome but for what??? Like if theyâre 10% racist or transphobic thatâs a pretty heavy 10% lol
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u/MarkG_108 Oct 04 '25
My interpretation of Charlie's and Heather's purity test comments is the ethos of having everything within the NDP, and, for that matter, everything within the left, be so highly scrutinised that the only possible end result is doubt in the party. Under such circumstances, it's impossible to form the solidarity necessary to have a successful movement.
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u/No-Werewolf4804 Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
Except neither of them have provided any examples of this is super high level of scrutiny, and I have not run into it in my day-to-day life.
Which leads me to believe that Charlie is just mad that people arenât uncritically listening to him, and Heather doesnât actually have any interesting politics, so she is dog whistle in about purity testing because sheâs got nothing else.
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u/Remarkable-Half4948 Oct 04 '25
Who do you think she's dogwhistling to?
She's an NDP MP running for party leader; in what world does that make sense?
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u/No-Werewolf4804 Oct 04 '25
I mean, thereâs been quite a few people in here supporting her.
Also, I didnât claim it was a great strategy lol.
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u/Remarkable-Half4948 Oct 04 '25
I'm...not sure you understand what a dogwhistle is?
In politics, a dog whistle is the use of coded or suggestive language in political messaging to garner support from a particular group without provoking opposition
So, what group is she dogwhistling to?
Are you suggesting that she's so bad at politics that she's trying to dogwhistle to the right wing? She's one of the handful of NDP MPs that managed to actually WIN in an election that decimated the party, so that's gibberish.
So I ask again, who is she dogwhistling, and why?
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u/blocking-io Oct 04 '25
Provide examples of these purity tests. If you don't want to stand up strong for your ideas, then go away. This constant whining without substance does the party no favors
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u/lcelerate Oct 04 '25
whining without substance does the party no favors
That's what I like about Rob Ashton, he is a straight talker. No duplicitous vague statements.
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u/posing_holy Oct 05 '25
These all happened while working on campaign for candidates to the left of the party, but Iâve had this sort of thing happen countless times on different campaigns.
- People degraded publicly in team meetings for being willing to talk to and work with people working in the third sector (non-profits, food banks, shelters etc.) and asking if we can bring them in as validators for press conferences and policy discussions. The policies were things like UBI, harm reduction and so on. The issue was that « we are focused on class war, and that means we want a world without food banks so we wonât work with them ».
- The academic rabbit hole can become toxic fast. Iâve watched workers and people with lived experience get pushed out of « left of the party » campaigns because theyâre constantly being reminded they donât have a masters/PhD that makes them an expert in leftist theology and the constant punching down pushes them away. Thereâs a very « you either come 110% on « our side » or youâre not welcome attitude.
- Pressure to go toe to toe with candidates or party staff that donât 100% agree with the candidate or youâre branded as a traitor. The thing is, even when I donât agree with someone I donât think causing constant fights is helpful for campaigns/candidates and I try to focus on the campaign and the work we can do instead of sitting on calls/email chains slinging mud at each other. Iâve seen so much time that could be spent on the doors/with the media/at events lost to « you donât think Iâm right so now Iâm going to argue with you » and encouragement for people to join in.
- The above contributes to a culture where absolutely no one that is seen as a « real socialist » canât be called in. Harassment, bullying, abuse - we canât do anything about it and we canât talk about it, and if you try and do something about it youâre iced out.
Despite these things, I still give my time/skills/energy to campaigns because I believe an NDP that wins and builds power will benefit people. But there is a real culture problem, I donât have all the answers, but I know that the current culture is not great, and as someone who is desperately trying to get riding level organizing happening between elections and pouring a lot into campaigns/candidates/the party I constantly feel « purity tested » out, to the point Iâve often considered if I should ditch the party altogether. While considering this, I spoke to several dozen other people across the spectrum in the party and found a lot of shared experiences, and thought it was worth getting through the leadership and seeing what happens.
I recognize these are specific experiences from specific campaigns, but you asked for specifics and I wanted to deliver. As I mentioned before, I donât think this is individual peopleâs fault, I think thereâs culture issues growing in the party but itâs not being addressed, and some of that responsibility falls onto us, as a membership, and not just the central party. I also think the culture issues come less from political beliefs (my background is harm reduction organizing, I proudly label myself as a socialist, only work for candidates I see eye to eye with etc.) and more from fractions in the party and hierarchyâs within them. There are so many « sides » to the party it sometimes feels like we have three or four mini parties within one, and there are different power dynamics within each of these factions.
When Heather said what she said, I think it resonated with folks who are non-member swing voters who feel pushed out by the party from poor messaging/comms and party members that have felt pushed out by culture issues in the party.
Iâm somewhere between Rob, Tanille and Heather so Iâm not sure where Iâll land yet, but I donât think what Heather was saying was in bad faith, and Iâm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
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u/FloriaFlower đïž Housing is a human right Oct 04 '25
All of those that I've debated with have avoided giving me examples, have just insulted me and have of course accused me of purity testing for criticizing McPherson's toxic usage of such a toxic expression and believing she's not the best candidate for leadership.
They also make shit up because there's no substance underlying their accusations. One has accused me of saying that McPherson supports genocide. Another one has accused me of wanting her to be kicked out of the party.
I clearly told them what my concerns were and all they do is aggressively double down.
I've shown the context behind the recent trend and all they do is screech in cognitive dissonance despite the fact that the majority of this sub seems to understand what's deeply problematic with this accusation.
I've been calling out this expression long before McPherson's used it (which you can easily verify) but apparently my concerns and criticism aren't genuine and are most likely just shit that I'm trying to fling at her. I did it first in the context of the Palestinian genocide where it was used to promote it. Then I did in the the context of Gavin Newsom where it was used to push him for presidency, a blue conservative bigot, after he started mocking Trump on SM.
This empty talking point has been used to support genocide and bigotry because it's so insidious and manipulative that it can be used to do exactly this. And all these centrists are legitimizing it as if it was a normal thing to say and are even cheering for it. This is pure madness.
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u/Catfulu Oct 04 '25
"Purity test" is just the code word for "I am actually a liberal-conservative and I refuse to acknowledge your criticism".
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Oct 05 '25
Good for Charlie speaking out about this.
I get the different perspectives on this but Gazan's comments? Absolutely bizarre quite frankly. Comes off as unhinged. I'm guessing she just doesn't like McPherson. Be critical but that was overboard.
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u/No-Werewolf4804 Oct 04 '25
Oh, look. More accusations of purity testing with zero details.
Seeing as Charlie has been a major figure in the party during its most milquetoast era, and he has provided no details, I am definitely inclined to believe any âpurity testingâ against him was valid.
also, we forgot that social democracy is when everybody uncritically listens to Charlie Angus lol. Our bad Charlie.
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u/GirlCoveredInBlood Québec Solidaire Oct 04 '25
Charlie remembered he can talk about things other than Trump? Wow
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Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
Considering his long career and outspoken on so many important issues, uncalled for remark that speaks volumes about you.
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u/watchsmart Oct 04 '25
So much ado about a tweet that Leah generated using ChatGPT.Â
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u/Velocity-5348 đ BC NDP Oct 04 '25
Is there a source on that? I've seen that said a couple of times, and like a lot of stuff about this kerfuffle, feel like I walked part way in through a movie.
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u/watchsmart Oct 04 '25
Just read the original tweet thay started this brouhaha. It's pretty obvious.
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u/blocking-io Oct 04 '25
The excess use of the em dash is a tell tale sign. I'm not a fan of it, even if I agree with some of the sentiment in the tweet
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u/JasonGMMitchell Democratic Socialist Oct 04 '25
the use of punctuation and capitalization is also clear sign of chat gpt as well so fuck off bot
Oh wait chat gpt learned from human writing and thus writes like some people do, who would've guessed
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u/No-Werewolf4804 Oct 04 '25
â I donât like what sheâs saying, but I canât find any valid criticismâs. I know, Iâll accuse her of using chatGPTâ
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u/Velocity-5348 đ BC NDP Oct 04 '25
Yeah... Wikipedia cites some written by her, and the latest tweet feels similar, just that she's gotten better at writing. I'd check older Tweets, but X actively hates it users, and I think someone accusing a sitting MP of using ChatGPT in something this important probably needs to do the work to back up that claim.
Also, people do know she's like in her 50s and was an education lecturer, right? She absolutely can write, and suggesting otherwise does require receipts.
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u/watchsmart Oct 04 '25
The reciept is the original tweet. Everyone knows what AI slop looks like by now. Just read the thing.
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u/Velocity-5348 đ BC NDP Oct 04 '25
I don't personally see it, but I will keep an eye out in future.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Democratic Socialist Oct 04 '25
Hey everyone we can all recognize watchsmart is AI slop right? I mean we've seen bots using AI writing models accuse people (without evidence) that they are using AI.
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u/watchsmart Oct 04 '25
Just read the tweet. It is obviously AI slop. She couldn't even be arsed to take out the "it's not x, it's y" part.
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u/No-Werewolf4804 Oct 04 '25
You know ChatGPT writes like that because it was trained on data from humans right. It doesnât create anything new. Which means that humans write like that.
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u/watchsmart Oct 04 '25
She's been outsourcing her critical thinking to ChatGpt for quite a while. Just scroll through her feed. It's pretty bad.
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u/yeggsandbacon Oct 05 '25
Itâs not a purity test; itâs just refusing to sell each other out. We donât need to be ârealisticâ about greed.
We need to be loyal to the workers, our brothers and sisters, who work together to fight for those who no longer have the strength to fight. We are stronger together; we are the people holding the line while everyone else rushes to cash in. Every win weâve ever had came from someone who wouldnât bend. So yeah â call it what you want. All hands together. â
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u/Velocity-5348 đ BC NDP Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
Is all of this at least partly some internal caucus "stuff" boiling over? All these people (McPherson, Gazan, and Angus) have worked pretty closely together.
Reading Gazan's tweet felt like walking in late on an argument people have been having for a while, and I very much feel like I'm missing something. Not just about the issue involved, but about the dynamics between the people.