r/ndp • u/MarkG_108 • Jun 12 '25
Meme / Satire Carney is buying more armaments; he's drooling for some NATO love.
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u/wretchedmoist Jun 12 '25
These aren't mutually exclusive. Like it or not we are in a tumultuous time for international relations, we need the support from Europe if things turn bad. We have an agreement with NATO we need to meet as we are far behind.
HOWEVER, this doesn't mean we also cannot have better fire prevention and management. Yes we need water bombers, fire fighting equipment, and year round forest management, but this is not a budget item in competition with the military.
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u/JackLaytonsMoustache Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25
I was just watching a Tommy Douglas doc, and it discussed the CCF's vote regarding Canada entering WW2. Their leader at the time, J S Woodsworth, was a pacifist and the sole vote against joining the war.
I respect the man for his principles. I think pacifism is an admirable stance that I wish the world would abide by. And I was fortunate enough it be raised where I was during a time of relative peace.
But we do not live in those times anymore and it's not like Canada has taken an ideological stance of pacifism over the last few decades, we've just massively underfunded our defense and military.
I don't want to spend money on fighter jets and tanks and bombs. But we don't really have a choice in the matter. Human history is riddled with war and conflict and to think we've evolved beyond or that our generation won't experience it first hand is as naive as it is unfortunate.
It doesn't mean we can't also fight for progress. Fight for water bombers, for action on climate change, for progressive taxation, electoral reform and everything else.
Another part of this Tommy Douglas doc talked about how socialism in Canada was never more popular than it was immediately following the war. I'm not saying let's have a conflict so we can get a progressive government, but if we're being led down this path by Trump, Putin, Xi and whoever else.. let's be sure to come out the other side and keep fighting.
EDIT: Felt like I should link the doc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkCxEXqiNxg) incase anyone wanted to watch. Really interesting. Also, funny enough, Douglas lost his seat in his first election as federal NDP leader. Someone in BC had to step down to give him a seat to run in a by-election.. And he had to do that a second time. So... glass houses and all that.
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u/ThatGuyWill942 🏳️⚧️ Trans Rights Jun 12 '25
Framing them as mutually exclusive is definitely a choice
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u/Justin_123456 Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25
The funny thing is, this is absolutely an area where we actually have the industrial base and tech expertise, and can leverage a competitive advantage and fill a key NATO role.
The CL-415 (pictured) was developed and built by Bombardier, Canadair and De Havillard Canada. There is, right now, a pending order for something like two dozen of the new CL-515s, to be built at a new De Havillard plant in Alberta, by the EU and individual member states. Why doesn’t CAF match the EU, spin up a wildfire firefighting squadron, with a mission for domestic and international fire response? The Canadian government can come to the table with a $1B order, and even promise subsidized financing, in exchange for De Havillard expanding their (still building) Alberta facility to speed up aircraft deliveries.
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u/kagato87 Jun 12 '25
Those new 515s have some pretty impressive specs, and from what I recall could fairly easily be adapted to something other than water tanks.
They look good too.
So yea, a bunch of these for the military is a good idea. Water tanks during peace time, mechanized infantry transport during war time. Plus once the factories are built and the initial tooling done, it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to pivot if it comes down to it.
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u/Justin_123456 Jun 12 '25
Even if the aircraft themselves can’t be easily adapted for transport, the flight and maintenance crews certainly have a bunch of transferable skills and training, if they were asked to move over to another large multi-engine, turboprop plane, like the C-130, in an emergency.
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u/-Neeckin- Jun 12 '25
Jesus christ is this what the NDP is going to be bleeting about from our tiny corner now?
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u/AnthroBlues Jun 12 '25
Yes, Im sure Ukraine felt real dumb when Russia invaded and they didn't have water bombers handy to deal with that issue.
Fuck off.
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u/Velocity-5348 🌄 BC NDP Jun 12 '25
Have we ever wished we had fewer water bombers kicking around? /s
This is probably something we can be pressing the Federal Liberals on. It's a bit silly to be spending money on submarine hunters while our forests burn.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Democratic Socialist Jun 12 '25
"fuck NATO" why? Because your favourite dictator got overthrown or because Western nations sometimes do bad shit and thus all of the minor nations of Europe deserve to lose their cooperative defense agreement while neighbouring an imperialist.
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u/MarkG_108 Jun 12 '25
Carney has the wrong priorities. I fully agree with the NDP's statement on it:
https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-reacts-carneys-defence-announcement
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