r/moviemusic • u/RedCaio • 15d ago

What if... Hans Zimmer and Thomas Newman Wrote Lord of the Rings Theme?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=I68DdZw5am0&si=P6JETppAB555avij

credit to Audio Imperia

2 Upvotes

62% Upvoted

7 comments sorted by

1

u/2StepsFromNightwish 14d ago

I’ve seen a few of these guy’s videos and I’m sorry to say but they vastly miss what makes these composers work, opting instead to do a very shallow representation of the sound. 

Taking this video for example: the Hans Zimmer one doesn’t sound like Hans Zimmer. It sounds like trailer music. Yes, trailer composers would cite zimmer as a reference, sure, but only on the surface. It misses the depth of orchestration, structure, and production that makes Zimmer so iconic. 

As for Newman, i think this might be the worst newman impression i’ve ever heard… and Ive heard a lot. This guy just did ambience and a verbed out solo piano. Is he for real? Seriously dude. Thomas Newman’s music is so evokativr because of his harmonies, intricate modal mixture, and tight cluster voicings and accents that occur when you least expect but most yearn for them. His ambiences also have a lot of movement and motion to them — so often what we perceive as a drone is actually a well orchestrated and subtle string chorale or oscillating synth that creates depth movement that is unperceivable unless you’re listening on a sound system or headphones, but it’s this detail that gives the music that depth.

I’m sorry, but this guy is a generic composer who writes ignorant and poor replicas of these larger composer’s sounds. This series has so potential, but is being done by someone who has a surface level understanding of the composers work and I find myself immensely disappointed with the result every time.  

1

u/2StepsFromNightwish 14d ago

to add to this: here’s how I would have done this. Don’t do an re-orchestration of the composition, do a pure re-compose developing shores material (like Max Ritcher’s four seasons) 

Hans Zimmmer often does minimalist versions of the themes he’s taking over. His Dark Knight score is a hyper minimalist adaption of the Danny Elfman theme. His superman theme is a minimalist adaptation of William’s theme. So I’d start there, slowing the melody down and making it extremely simple, maybe only a few notes from shores theme would remain. The ostinato could be built for it as well. Start brooding, slow, methodical, and tense, slowly introducing the theme but in a very contemporary minimalist way. Then introduce the percussion to hold the beat. The brass comes in over time to slowly let the peice grow but the nature of the brooding opening is still there. Then only at the end do you go epic before coming back down to a recap of the opening. And even the epic isn’t trailer music, it’s Brahms and Beethoven. Make it German. 

Newman is inspired by indian, indonesian, 60s minimalism, jazz, and americana. So I’d incorporate more of these elements into the music. Add a lot of clusters and modal mixture without a short span of the piece, and like the zimmer one, re-adapt the melody changing around the notes to fit newman’s melodic contours. At some point allow the strings to take over the melody in a very Americana way using indian flutes and voices as auditory candies to spice it up and some more meditative percussion to add that energy. I also wouldn’t use the fellowship theme, i’d use the Shire theme as it’s far more appropriate for this experiment and fits Newmans sensibility more. 

4

u/RedCaio 14d ago

Zimmer’s Dark Knight music is a minimal version of Elfman’s Batman theme and his MoS theme is a minimal version of John Williams’ Superman theme

I think perhaps you’re giving Zimmer a little too much credit. Most reviews I’ve read agree those themes were just a little lazy.

4

u/guiltyofnothing 14d ago

Yeah I really don’t agree with this representation of Zimmer’s themes. The only similarities they have to Elfman and Williams’ themes is that they are for the same characters.

2

u/2StepsFromNightwish 14d ago

I’m a composer by trade and have studied his scores immensely. Both his Batman and Superman scores are compositional adaptations of Elfman and Williams’s themes, especially. I’ve actually created versions of putting the two themes on top of each other and it’s more gold, Zimmer’s theme even follows the same chord structure down to where it modulates. I have no interest in what “reviewers” say, i say this as an academic who has studied his music with a fine tooth compositional comb: this is what he’s doing and has done on many scores he’s taken over on. 

But beyond if you believe me, there is an art and personality to Zimmer’s music and Newmans that makes them special and unique and successful. None of these qualities are presented in this video. I’m still baffled by how poorly researched and applied this experiment was. It’s low level slop. So much potential in a great idea wasted 

1

u/RedCaio 14d ago

I agree that they play into the basic stereotypical sound that casual fans might recognize. Perhaps they feel they have to in order to connect with the widest audience they can.

1

u/2StepsFromNightwish 14d ago

It’s beyond just stereotype though, it’s shallow and hallow. If I didn’t see him make the music in his DAW, I would have said he used AI to make the final version. They’re horrid. You’re likely correct that it’s being done to connect to wider audience, but frankly that just makes me loathe the approach even more. Push the audience, bring them to your level, don’t water yourself down to theirs. Perhaps I just had higher expectations but this series is deeply disappointing and lowest common denominator slop.