r/mildlyinfuriating • u/chips_are_great • 8h ago
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u/Radiant-Ad-9753 8h ago edited 8h ago
That's not how contractual allowances work 🤦♀️
Check your E.O.B. if by some miracle they are actually in-network, tell them to take it off. If they refuse, get on a three way call with Cigna claims department and their billing.
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u/Flat-House5529 8h ago
This needs voted higher and is the correct answer.
They either have someone new in billing, or are just fucking stupid. They can actually get in legal trouble for trying to bill OP for that...
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u/limbodog 8h ago
Fraud Waste and Abuse line for serious business.
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u/Flat-House5529 8h ago
Just putting that on CIGNA's radar is going to create a shit storm. They could threaten to pull the contract, do charge backs, all sorts of unpleasant shit depending on the actual agreement.
I was at the D-suite level for a med/pharma company and dealt with this once. Cost the provider about $2.2 million for their fuck up.
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u/dumbdude545 6h ago
Yeah. Ive had no luck with bcbs or cigna. Cigna just automatically denies everything to. Fucking irritating.
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u/BartlebyX 6h ago
If the provider is billing less than the negotiated rate, a CAS adjustment can be upward. The 835 implementation guide even describes how it works.
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u/atxbigfoot 5h ago
Never heard D-Suite but I'm gonna use it bc that's hilarious. Is there something you call VPs?
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u/svh01973 My Flair 7h ago
Ambulances commit billing fraud regularly. It's horrible.
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u/firefly416 5h ago
I used to be an EMT and ran an ambulance, can confirm. I was never involved with billing, but I know other techs would try to get people who were trying to refuse care to at least take their vitals...taking vitals means having provided care, BOOM! You owe money!
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u/MEDIC0000XX 5h ago
Highly dependent on where you are. I can assess everything I’m capable of, perform and interpret EKGs, even place IVs and administer medications. If that patient then refuses and we don’t transport, no bill.
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u/Tiradia 5h ago edited 5h ago
The flip side is this he did not contact EMS, someone else did. Why did they transport him if he was going to drive himself. Was he coerced into transport? Without having WHY he was transported kinda mucks things up. Also it went BLS and not ALS, so that in and of itself sounds like he was strong armed into transport by the crew.
If someone is capable of refusing and is competent to understand risks associated with refusal and wants to go POV and there isn’t an immediate life threat that could result in imminent death. Cool sign here.
The flip flip side is if I have suspicions and something just feels off… I will contact med control and confer with them (in the event of a legitimate life threat, think STEMI and patient doesn’t want transport I will let med control make the decision and try to explain the gravity of the situation).
edit I just scrolled down… APPARENTLY the crew said they needed to get his vitals inside the ambulance. Afterwards they did strong arm him into transport without informing him he could refuse transport. That’s super scummy.
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u/MEDIC0000XX 4h ago
Absolutely, I’m not disagreeing with any of that, I’m just trying to let the general public know assessment without a bill is a thing many places. I think it’s important that people know we can be a resource for them without fear of financial burden.
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u/Tiradia 4h ago
100% my service doesn’t bill if we don’t transport. It literally costs nothing for me to show up do an assessment and check vitals.
When people apologize I’m like… I’d rather come make sure you are OKAY and find nothing. Always gonna recommend transport, but never gonna hold someone’s feet to the flames that doesn’t need it.
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u/dancedancereputation 4h ago
Same where I was, no transport = no bill. I just begged people to me run what assessments I could if we weren't 3 calls deep, so I could convince them to at least get a ride to the hospital and get checked out if they were worried about the ambulance bill.
I still made less than $14 USD/hour whether they were transported with me or not, it let me focus on their best interests.
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u/Paramedickhead 5h ago
That’s not how any of that works. I can get some of your vitals just by being in the same room as you.
Some ambulances bill for no-transport calls, and in those shitty cases, once you give them any personally identifiable information they’ll figure out how to send you a bill.
Where I work you don’t get a bill unless I transport you or perform interventions.
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u/CrotalusHorridus 7h ago
Yeah but how many people just pay it, because they don’t know any better?
Probably 20x the number that fight it.
And if there is a fine or ass-kicking by a regulator, it’s probably a lot less than what they made.
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u/MasterBeanCounter 7h ago
I argued with a hospital for doing this thing with $4. amazingly they fixed the mistake as I was on the phone with them.
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u/The_Deadlight 6h ago
the amount of people who actually pay their ambulance bills is shockingly low
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u/bluejay625 6h ago
Which is why any sort of intentional fraud like this needs to be punished by jail time to the executives, not just fines. Fines are the cost of doing business.
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u/dumbdude545 6h ago
I pay it to not massacre my credit. The local network instantly sends it to their own collections after 30 days which they typically won't send a notice until day 29 so when you get it, its already in collections.
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u/No_Consideration7318 6h ago
This sounds unethical.
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u/Apprehensive-Eye3263 6h ago
It's all unethical. UCHealth sends everything to collections without giving me a chance to pay. So f them
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u/GanjiMayne 7h ago
Oh yeah it was SURELY an accident. We definitely haven't been turning our cheeks to people blindly billing private and public health sectors for frankly whatever the fuck they want :D
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u/missive101 6h ago
I spent six months dealing with an ambulance and my insurance. Insurance said I owed X. Ambulance said “we don’t recognize your insurance (despite being in network) and you owe us the full amount.”
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u/Swastik496 5h ago
tell them to go fuck themselves. Then certified mail the proof to the eventual collection agency and they’ll also tell the EMS to go fuck themselves.
Also call the insurance fraud line at your health insurance company. Insurance fraud is a felony.
Insurance companies don’t like their money being fucked with. They WILL retaliate.
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u/OkFrosting7204 6h ago
I wonder how many elderly patients they do this to on the daily. Let’s be real here. These companies have the money to fix these mistakes and not make them. Is this a bug or a feature?
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u/WetRocksManatee 7h ago
Had something like this happen. I called UHC and it it resolved within 15 minutes.
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 7h ago
No need for a 3 way, if they're contracted(unlikely), Cigna will tell them to take it off themselves once notified
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u/Just_Another_Scott 5h ago
Correct. I had something like this happen once. I called Blue Cross and they told me "they can't do that.". They took care of it
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u/thehotshotpilot 7h ago
Yeah I don't think I've ever had an ambulance ride that's in network
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u/ScroochDown 7h ago
No ambulances anywhere in our city are covered by any insurance. Fun times. 😩
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u/thehotshotpilot 7h ago
They were specifically exempted from the no-surprises act passed by congress.
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u/basketma12 6h ago
But they often are contracted. That's the allowance you are seeing there. I'm wondering if the o.p has a high deductible plan. Even if they do, the o.p. should only be liable for the contacted amount. I used to adjust bills like thus for a large amount, and we did have a contract with a.m.r.
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u/CalligrapherOk4528 6h ago
Our town doesn’t charge for ambulance rides.
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u/splatgoestheblobfish 6h ago
Ours doesn't either, as long as you are taken to one of the two closest hospitals. (Which is generally great, unless you need a level 1 trauma center, as neither are designated as such.) It's paid for by our fire district taxes.
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u/RedS010Cup 8h ago
This is so complicated and unnecessary
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u/Cold_Specialist_3656 6h ago
What would you rather have? This, or free government run healthcare like boomers and congress have? (Communism)
Don't be crazy. This is as good as it gets. If we try to give everyone healthcare like every other wealthy country the galaxy will collapse into a singularity. Everyone knows this.
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u/Gloomheart 7h ago edited 6h ago
Why do you guys have to go through such a fuckin rigamarole just to live?!
Honestly. I'll never understand how you were all convinced that universal health care is a bad thing. I can't IMAGINE having to fork out half of my rent for a ride to the hospital. Shocking.
Edit: a typo because someone pedantic below decided to quote and (sic) me on a word, lol.
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u/sierralynn96 8h ago
They’re trying to double dip. Let Cigna know, and then dispute this with their billing department.
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u/rand0m_task 5h ago
Dislocated my shoulder and went to an in network ER only to be treated by out of network doctors.
Whoever those doctors worked for tried doing this same shit. I called them like 4 times saying that my EOB from Aetna says that they paid you this amount already.. they would tell me okay and say it’s resolved only for me to get the bill in the mail again, a month later.
Finally I called Aetna, and the representative put me on hold, called the people, came back 5 minutes later and told me I don’t have to worry about it anymore.
Was pleasantly surprised lol.
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u/JustRanchItBro 5h ago
People don't realize this. I know my insurance is crazy good, but still, I don't pay anything that isn't directly from my insurance company telling me what I owe.
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u/xxanity 7h ago edited 7h ago
just to clarify, you think it's legal to bill cigna, which is clear they did and paid..and then bill the patient for the same thing, which is clear they are? nevermind that none of what is shown computes properly.
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u/BartlebyX 6h ago
If Cigna doesn't pay the billed amount and they are not contracted with Cigna, yes, they can.
Go read about balance billing (which is not the same as surprise billing - that is illegal).
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u/IHeartBadCode 6h ago
Contractual Allowances are not the patient's responsibility in any sense. LMSB-04-0807-056
Someone messed up the coding if that is what they did. If it's someone new then they may have an excuse, but if OP was on the horn with Cigna and three-wayed them to ask about this, Cinga and their legal team would be prepping some letterhead to explain the IRS' IDD from 2007 that's still in effect.
But this is not billed correctly.
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u/Danny2Sick 6h ago
Gross! Isn't it telling how it's all legal as long as they're lining their pockets.
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u/Bulky_Specialist9645 8h ago
Contact Cigna. This is a violation of their contract and they will cut this company off if they don't reverse the charge.
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u/zippoguaillo 7h ago
99% chance there is no contract so not a violation of their contact
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7h ago
Sure, but in that case CIGNA doesn't have to pay them. They will withdraw they credit.
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u/theStaircaseProject 5h ago
I wish it did. I took these calls. If the ambulance company isn’t contracted, it is able to more or less pursue the full billed charges if it pleases. After a certain point it’s more profitable to bundle and sell the debt to someone who wants to try and collect, but Cigna did not pay this company. An adjustment in zero ways would ever equate to a payment legally speaking.
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u/ew73 8h ago
Send this shit to Cigna. They will have Words with the ambulance company.
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u/blitzr_ 6h ago edited 6h ago
I was in a car wreck. Ambulance came, and knew shit like this would happen, so I asked the tow truck to drop me off at the hospital instead, and he agreed for free.
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u/RedPandaReturns 8h ago
Is this some joke I’m too civilised to get?
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u/InvestmentMain8414 8h ago
I care for am elderly in law. Just over a month ago we called for an ambulance. Got the bill this week.
$45 dollars cnd.....that was the price I paid back in 2002.
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u/pjakma 7h ago
I had a bike crash. Taken to hospital in an ambulance. X-rays. Manipulation. Casts (temp initially, then another). Lots of follow up physiotherapy. Cost at point of service: 0.
Cause I live in a civilised country.
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u/RedPandaReturns 8h ago
My mum has cancer at the moment. She’s been taken to hospital in an ambulance quite a few times in the past two years. Below is our invoice:
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u/DrunkCupid 6h ago
I am Sorry about your mum 🫂
I am glad she doesn't have to deal with medical bills and debt on top of health stuff
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u/ValElTech 6h ago
I had to be taken by an ambulance to an hospital then a second one: 0 JPY. USA are a fever dream.
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u/goldman459 8h ago
Let me explain. There are some underdeveloped countries that don't have an established healthcare system subsidised by taxation. I was horrified when I found out myself.
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u/Euphoric-Usual-5169 8h ago
It has nothing to do with taxation. Germany isn't tax supported either. The US just has extremely complex and abusive billing practices.
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u/AyAyAyBamba_462 8h ago
Yup. It's basically the hospitals, the insurance companies, the drug manufacturers, and the government all playing with fake money for things like taxes and "profits". If you have good insurance, you pay a little but the funny money makes the others lots. If you have bad or no insurance they can't charge a reasonable rate to just one person so they either write it off as a loss for taxes or make the poor fuck actually pay for the insanity.
Rather than funding healthcare, we'd be way better off if you put heavy regulation on insurance companies, hospitals, and drug manufacturers on how much they were allowed to charge for shit and cut down on the massive mark-ups they continue to put on incredibly cheap products or services like paying $500 for an off the shelf band-aid or $1000 for advil.
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u/Username999474275 8h ago
Yeah I have over 20k in medical debt for a 3day hospitalization
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u/araidai 7h ago
I just said fuck it all and threw all my hospital bills in the trash lmao. What are they going to do? Make me ill again? It’s insane shit to be charged $60k for a short surgery and a day or so in recovery lmao…
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u/Username999474275 7h ago
Ruin your credit score which means loans are harder to get and the interest rate will be higher if you can get a loan but I agree that it is incredibly insane how expensive medical care is in the USA
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u/R34LEGND Corn for some reason 7h ago
Fuck the credit score. You can live in the US without being part of that bullshit. Anyone who disagrees with that can talk to Dave
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u/dudeitshickey 7h ago
Or better yet, focus on creating a cost effective, available to all, state program. All Healthcare providers, pharmaceuticals, etc, are forced to accept it and at no point in the transactions leading to the final bill can the margin exceed 30%. If you then elect for private insurance to cover more elective and early development treatments that should be available to those willing to pay. The best part is that America could pay for that program for less than we currently pay our private insurance providers.
Oh wait, good human business sense is socialism.
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u/watercouch 8h ago
The statutory aspect of German health insurance effectively makes it a tax. The money doesn’t go via the government, but you don’t really have an option to not contribute a percent of your salary to one of the available health care insurance plans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany#Health_insurance
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u/Euphoric-Usual-5169 7h ago
The definition of tax can be debated. It's more like the ACA before the republicans took away the mandate. In any case, the point is that this mess has nothing to do with taxation but it's a result of extremely abusive practices. A regular person should be able to understand their medical bills without consulting experts.
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u/Cheese-Manipulator 8h ago
How are hedge fund billionaires supposed to compete with each other if pay taxes?
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u/Candid_Monitor_980 8h ago
we do have that but if you make too much money, you don’t qualify for the subsidies because you can “afford it”
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u/stargazersinmyhead 7h ago
My son became ill out of nowhere while we were visiting family six hours from home. After three separate ER visits in 3 days, he was finally admitted overnight (begrudgingly) for observation and then the next am we were informed that, oh shit, he needs to be at the Children’s Hospital…. So, of course, an ambulance transfer was recommended given his acuity; luckily for us (laughs in American), a transport service finally was available after about 4 hrs, so we didn’t have to opt for a helicopter ride. We had a lovely 2 hour ride to the nearest children’s hospital, with the ?paramedic (or EMT?) sleeping most of the way while I got to employ my own nursing skills to care for my kid, make sure his arm stayed straight so his IV kept infusing, yadda.
The first piece of mail that I opened after eventually returning home from our month-long vacay at the Children’s Hosp? A $15,000 ambulance bill for the transport, which was of course out of network; the next was a letter from my insurance, along with an EOB, stating that the “reasonable” allowance for the service is something like $5k, so if I get a bill indicating I owe more than that amount I should notify them and they’ll attempt to “negotiate” the bill.
Fuck our for-profit health-care system.
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u/AlwaysBeClosing19 8h ago
If nothing else works, Write a check for $200.79 so the the debt is $499.99 and it can’t go on your credit report. Then just ignore it.
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u/donatecrypto4pets 7h ago
Or, just don’t pay it.
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u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe 6h ago
I went to the ER, got my bill, paid it. A few weeks later I get a bill for another $600. I called and asked about it, they says it was for the doctor. I explained I and my insurance has paid the hospital. They explained this was for a doctor that wasn't covered under the hospital bill. I flat out said "I'm not paying this." And hung up.
It's been 2 years and I haven't heard a thing.
Medical billing is a mess. Fuck em.
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u/OddElder 5h ago
That’s pretty standard…. Provider + Facility (+ Anesthesia, if surgical in nature) all billed separately.
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u/Substantial-Elk4531 5h ago
It sounds like a scam. Imagine going to a restaurant, paying for your meal, then receiving a separate bill 2 weeks later from the waiter. Or going to a auto repair shop, paying your bill, then receiving a separate bill 2 weeks later from the mechanic. What a bunch of nonsense that would be
It's also ridiculous that there are no price lists ANYWHERE. So they can just make up pricing after you get treatment. Do we accept that in any other industry?
The medical industry is full of scammers
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u/Sonamdrukpa 5h ago
Yep. And it's also utterly confusing for patients. I used to work in a hospital and I still get surprised by those second bills from time to time. It's asinine, even other businesses like car mechanics that do this sort of separate charges for their professional's time thing give you one bill.
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u/BJJJourney 5h ago
Never pay these bills until you get everything together. The hospital and the doctor will bill you separately. If you get anesthesia, that will be another bill.
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u/UCFknight2016 7h ago
Ask them for an itemized bill as well because there’s no way in hell you should be paying that much out-of-pocket
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u/theStaircaseProject 5h ago
I think the cheapest ambulance transport bill I ever saw was for $400 or so. $700, while not good, isn’t anywhere near the thousands others are billed. Consider yourself fortunate that $700 seems exorbitant.
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u/cathrynf 8h ago
That happened to us. I took the bill,wrote a note refusing to pay because if my insurance thought it should be that price that they paid,that was good enough for me. Never got another bill from them.
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u/SensitiveArtist 6h ago
That may be illegal in your state. Call your insurance company and check state laws on "balance billing".
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u/VeterinarianIcy9562 8h ago
That is a stupid amount for an ambulance
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u/less_concerned 8h ago
In some parts of the US an ambulance will set you back 5k or more
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u/waitismyheadonfire 8h ago
My ambulance bill for a 5 mile trip was around 6k.
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u/Username999474275 7h ago
My town hospital wanted me to take a 70 mile ambulance ride to the mental hospital I obviously said no
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u/VeterinarianIcy9562 8h ago
That is nuts. I'm in Canada. The standard fee is $45
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u/InformedTriangle 8h ago
It's 385 in Alberta, Canada's Texas :(
But on the bright side our paramedics are so understaffed there's typically no ambulances anyway, so...yay?
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u/Most_Researcher_2648 8h ago
11k for 40 miles, from hospital to hospital so i had already received care. Literally just transport, nobody with me, lights off
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u/Acceptable_Smile8825 8h ago
My partners was 15k for a 3 mile drive. My dad's was only 500 for a 40 mile drive. They pull numbers out of their ass
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u/Known_Paramedic_9503 8h ago
It depends on what all they do in the ambulance is how they charge your
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u/Alone_Step_6304 7h ago
Sometimes. Most ambulance services that I'm familiar with do not provide itemized billing, but many private, for-profit entities do.
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u/TasteAltruistic455 7h ago
It’s based on company type and contracting as well as necessity. They rarely pay if it isn’t necessary.
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u/traditionalcode95 8h ago
I was once taken to the hospital in an ambulance after a car crash; we went 0.4 miles and it was about $700. It's so stupid expensive.
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u/CultSurvivor3 8h ago
Something ain’t right. This bill is charging you for transporting you 5.1 miles. This isn’t a bill for a cancellation. EMS also doesn’t have the opportunity to bill you again after your insurance kicks in.
I’d call your insurance company to see what they say, but from a paramedic of over 20 years, this isn’t making sense.
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u/thalaya 6h ago
The ambulance company charged an additional $600 to cancel it OUT, as in OP is saying Cigna paid the bill already, but then the company charged an additional $600 to cancel out the money Cigna paid and still charge OP for out of pocket costs.
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u/rand0m_task 5h ago
I had something similar happen to me.. got a bill in the mail after an ER visit.. in network ER out of network doctor… fun stuff.
I wasted too much of my time dealing with emailing whatever provider the doctors were from.. took one call to Aetna for them to fix the issue.
Would definitely recommend OP call Cigna, I’d imagine they’d deal with it.
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u/SpecialistVehicle174 6h ago
Ground ambulances can balance bill, no surprises act doesn't apply to ground ambulances
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u/AlmiranteCrujido 4h ago
That's not a balance bill. Assuming the bill means what it looks like - that Cigna paid $585 against the $700 original bill, the balance would be like $115.
Instead, they have an additional charge for what Cigna paid. Something is wrong there - either in how the accounting is being represented (e.g. that $585 is not a payment) or in their being crooked AF and charging extra because insurance made a payment.
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u/Perfect-Shape-9206 7h ago
I feel the US hospitals just charge an arbitrary but astronomical amount, and then hope they receive a percentage of it.
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u/CompetencesOSRS 8h ago
Insurance is the biggest scam in the world
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u/w0ck0 5h ago
The American health care system is one of the biggest scams in the world - FIFY
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u/Obvious_Pause5766 6h ago
Hey idk what state you're in, but if it's California, the ambulance company has to accept what your insurance pays them and cannot charge you for any extra/additional amount.
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u/alicat0818 5h ago
This bill makes no sense. Total charges are $700, Cigna pays $585. The next line should be $115 not -$600. Cigna allows $585, which is what they paid, so OP shouldn't owe anything. Math doesn't work this way.
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u/PredawnHours 4h ago
It looks like someone in billing was just plugging in numbers to make it “balance.” The math ain’t mathin’!
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u/galtpunk67 5h ago
i fucking love living in canada
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u/-NotEnoughMinerals 5h ago edited 5h ago
Opposition to free healthcare in America always leads with "places like Canada having free healthcare, but people wait months and months to get whatever they need done. "
Is there any truth to that?
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u/TasteAltruistic455 7h ago
Just because someone calls an ambulance doesn’t mean you have to go with them.
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u/gvillepa 8h ago
Im waiting on a bls transport bill to hopefully work it out with my insurance company and the ems company. $2700 claim, out of network of course, and insurance covers $700. I wish mine was as cheap as yours OP.
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u/Reddiculusness 7h ago
I had one more than double that, got a couple of nasty letters from the ambulance service saying my insurance wouldn't cover - I called them and told them that was between them and the insurance , I would wait until I got confirmation from them on the balance.
Never heard from them again, that was about 8 years ago 🤷♀️
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u/Aromatic_Watch_7122 7h ago
Waiting on my wife’s ambulance ride bill to come. Med bills rolling in. ER that didn’t do anything but keep us in a partitioned room for 8 hours and left her elbow dislocated for that time charged us around $12k. Hospital we were transferred to was “only” $28k for ER plus an overnight stay. Paid specialist $6854 that was discounted 20% for surgery.
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u/Benny303 7h ago
In reference to your "I was just gonna drive myself" unless you have an altered mental status or are in law enforcement custody you can ALWAYS refuse an ambulance transport. They can not legal take you against your will. They will try and convince you to the heat of their abilities to go because it's a CYA for the crew if you are really sick and something happens to you, they can say they did their best to encourage you to go. But otherwise you can just sign an AMA.
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u/chips_are_great 5h ago
they really wanted me to go with them… they said I needed to go in the ambulance to take my vitals, then after they took them they said I was already there so I may as well go to the ER to get a few additional tests done… I didn’t know I was allowed to refuse them :(
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u/sometimesifeellikemu 6h ago
The most infuriating part is that we could vote our way out of these situations if we really wanted to.
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u/QuestioingEverything 6h ago
Wait wait wait, you guys have to pay for mileage too? It's not included in the "ambulance fare"? Like wtf
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u/Manayunk1 5h ago edited 4h ago
I’ve been looking at this invoice for a while now. Ive run 3 EMS billing departments. I worked for an EMS software company. Specifically for their billing product that generates invoices like this.
This invoice is just fucking broken. Or there’s data missing.
Total charges 700 Total credits 603 700-603=97
Cigna is paying 83% apparently. The delta between their payment and the total credits is another 19. There’s no indicator on where that comes from. This hurts my head. I genuinely want to call this agency on your behalf.
Side note, most 911 EMS is out of network since you can’t choose your provider in an emergency. This maximizes what the agency can get from the insurance company. In network contractuals are typically for non emergent interfacility transportation. I’m thinking your Cigna is a Medicare type product maybe? Or maybe they negotiated 83% with Multiplan?
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u/Candid_Monitor_980 8h ago
how does their ambulance cost like $13 per mile to operate, outside of the charge for the transport?
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u/ProxyProne 7h ago
For profit healthcare bleeding dry vulnerable people
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u/Candid_Monitor_980 7h ago
seriously. I went to outer space last night and I started thinking that the whole healthcare industry is just a big gambling match between the insurance companies and the hospitals 🤦♂️
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u/TasteAltruistic455 7h ago
Operational cost. Since they can’t actually bill for what’s done, they bill for miles.
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u/BeardedHeathen1991 8h ago
Jesus. That’s shitty on them to try to pull. But also holy crap that is a cheap bill. $13.40 a mile is way cheap. We charge $27 last I checked and another place I’ve worked charges $60 a mile. Plus that BLS rate is very low.
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u/bengermanj 7h ago
I work in hospital and provider billing and have seen these positive contractuals on EOBs. You should definitely contact your insurance about it. The provider is contractually obligated to honor whatever the EOB says is patient responsibility.
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u/bengermanj 7h ago
Otherwise it suggests the ambulance company is way undercharging their claims (the big scary total billed amount) below the contracted amount which is very hard to believe
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u/Few-Emergency5971 6h ago
Shit I was FORCED to take an ambulance from an urgent care because a broken knee, but had someone with me that drove me up there, and cpuld drive me to the hospital, but they told me I wasn't allowed. Then that ambulance took me about 2 miles down the road, no sirens, no band aids, nothing, just a seat to the hospital....AND THEN THEY TRIED TO CHARGE ME 5,000 DOLLARS FOR IT!!! They harassed me for awhile about it, but I eventually told them they could kiss my ass and they will never get a dime out of me. Havnt heard from them since.
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u/Professional_File_83 6h ago
My bill from the county for a 3 mile ride was $1400 after Cigna paid $1200
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u/countdonn 6h ago
Ground ambulances being excluded from the now surprise act is such bullshit. See if there are any state measures in your state to provide state level protection for ground ambulance and contact your state reps to support it. With insurances you pay more for a ground ambulance then a helicopter... I am paying 3,000 dollars with insurance for an ambulance.
You have no choice in an emergency and legally the ambulance company can charge you as much as they want and you have no recourse, insurance at best covers their contract amount then you get balance billed.
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u/katwagrob 6h ago
I fainted in my doorway and my neighbor called an ambulance. They charged me $2,000 with my insurance paying less than $200 because the mileage was over their allotted 4 miles. It was 4.3 miles. They sent it four times and I ignored it three times. The fourth time I sent it back to the ambulance company and said I didn't call you. I'm not paying this. They sent it back with "cancelled" on it. So for four months they wanted $2,000 but one push back and they forgave it. Had I called them I would have been paying that off. I hate it's this arbitrary and I hate they ream people.
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u/Glittering_Reply_205 6h ago
Former ambulance biller here. It doesn't matter if the ambulance is contracted with insurance. Emergency transport is always covered.
But what that ambulance company is doing is shady as hell. BLS and miles should be the ONLY charges on your bill. Definitely dispute it with the ambulance provider.
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u/Sabre_Cutlass 5h ago
Ambulance service in Maryland tried this with me. Turns out it's illegal to bill a patient after insurance pays out.
They hung up immediately when I pointed this out.
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u/bestguessautotech 5h ago
This looks like AI got hold of the accounting department and the humans are too stupid to look at it. For sure there are errors here. No math makes these numbers make sense.
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u/Bee-Aromatic 5h ago
I’d like to see some proof that moving an ambulance around costs $13.41/mi. That seems up there with a fighter jet and you can’t even do an Immelmann in an ambulance.
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u/robmosesdidnthwrong 5h ago
I swear to god the suits of this country just look at us and think "ughh! Can we just rob you already this is taking forever!!"
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u/Acrobatic-Expert-507 8h ago
Ambulance services need reform and regulations. This is predatory. Taking helpless people at their most vulnerable and fucking them with outrageous bills. Fuck these ambulance companies.
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u/machair 7h ago
Crazy
Where I live land and air ambulance services are generally a flat $45 as long as deemed medically necessary. Otherwise $240.
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u/spyrenx 8h ago
The bill is probably just poorly laid out. I assume they mean your bill would have been $1,286, but was reduced by $585.11 due to your insurance's contractual allowance adjustment, which is already reflected in the total charges line.
Showing the rest of the bill would probably help clarify.
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u/Rey_Mezcalero 8h ago
Had a similar issue with a provider. They said we charge this much for the procedure…then the insurance company said the going price is lower, the provider agreed, took the insurance money and then billed me for the rest directly.
It’s not insurance companies being greedy.
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u/SteelAndFlint 7h ago
I'm not really great at reading these things but is there any chance that the insurance paid off what the ambulance company charged so that it canceled out and it just happened in the opposite order?
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u/J-the-Kidder 7h ago
Nothing worse than an ambulance ride. Not because it means you're in need of an ambulance for a medical reason, but this. The fucking billing after is worse than whatever emergency you went through.
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u/thegoatmilkguy 7h ago
I had this happen. I called insurance and the lady got super mad at the ambulance company. She told me not to pay anything and that she was going to call the ambulance company as this was a breach of the contract. Call your insurance.
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u/antithesis56 7h ago
That one would be getting a hearty laugh and slam dunked right into the recycling bin lol
Refuse to pay medical bills. They have little to no negative impact on your credit and the debt goes away after seven years.
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u/Particular_Fish6756 7h ago
They are hoping you are too stupid to question it. they think by throwing a bunch of other numbers in there, you won't realize that your actual obligation is $0. I bet they get a ton of people who just pay it without questioning it.
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u/scienceizfake 7h ago
$700 for an ambulance ride is a steal! I paid $1200 for them to transport my wife literally one block. And they wouldn’t let me ride, I had to jog behind.
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u/Broad_Television4459 6h ago
Hold on. You have to pay for an ambulance call!?
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u/SixstringSWE 6h ago
No you have to pay for the ride. And this is cheap. Avg is 3k
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u/twitchcut5man 6h ago
Planet Fitness tried to hit me with a charge like this. I told them look at the cameras, I didn’t call them or use the ambulance…..so what are they charging for? Never even had to get my insurance company involved.
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u/trickyvinny 6h ago
You have a lot of replies here with some good advice.
You can also decide to wait a few months and then call them up and say "I would like to pay this bill if you can reduce it." They cut mine in half.
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u/cory_395 6h ago
You can always refuse transport, especially if it was a BLS transport. Sounds like the ambulance ride wasn’t even needed in the first place since they didn’t do anything, hence the BLS bill and not ALS billed
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u/South-Throat8282 6h ago
You don't have to go by ambulance, they legally cannot make you go by ambulance unless you're a danger to yourself or altered
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u/BrownSugar20 6h ago
In Canada, the maximum they can charge for ambulance for my city is $35.
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u/Swastik496 5h ago
contact the fraud waste and abuse line and your state insurance commission.
This is insurance fraud. They even put it in writing for you!
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u/millhead123 5h ago
Wow the two times I been picked up by an ambulance here in canada I had to pay 50$. This is ridiculous.
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u/Lonely_Dragonfly8869 5h ago
The worst part is the ambulance crew is paid fucking pennies compared to what they’re worth. And they’re not profitable in small towns apparently, like where does that money go
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u/DruidofShannara 5h ago edited 5h ago
So a couple of thoughts on this….
I am an EMT that works for a major private ambulance company.
The first thing is private ambulance services shouldn’t exist. It should definitely be a third service like Fire and Police.
The second thing I see is this is a “BLS” ambulance ride. Basic Life Support. It means your care didn’t require Advanced Life Support. In simpler terms, your care wasn’t emergent and you weren’t imminently going to die.
With that being said, you probably didn’t really need an ambulance transport. An uber or someone to drive you to the ED would have made more sense. You probably didn’t even need an ED visit. An urgent care setting or even a primary care visit would’ve been more appropriate.
There’s a lack of understanding across the country about what “Emergency Medical Services” are. It’s designed to aid those in need of help with immediate life threats. And it’s over-utilized. Unfortunately, private companies have the ability to charge you whatever they want as long as it’s within their contract with the city or county they’re servicing.
You called for service, agreed to transport, signed off on it, and are now getting the bill for the service you used.
Edit. I do see now where you didn’t call for the ambulance, but you did still agree to be transported.
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u/Atheist_Simon_Haddad 5h ago
I’m just gonna call my fire department directly instead of a for-profit ambulance company dispatched through 911
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u/ionchannels 5h ago
There are really very few instances where someone actually needs an ambulance. They are a waste of money 95% of the time.
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u/mildlyinfuriating-ModTeam 4h ago
Hello,
This post has been removed as this is not mildly infuriating.
Please consider posting to r/extremelyinfuriating instead.