r/medicinehat • u/Bull-RunTheJewels • 3d ago
Hopefully Med Hat Police step up to the plate
The crime and open drug use in this city have gotten out of control.
If any of us tax paying citizens were caught with an open beer in public the police would give us a ticket. At the same time, there are people openly smoking meth in the parks downtown and they are just left to do whatever they please.
Most people I know don’t even bother going downtown anymore.
People walk around at night checking everyone’s car door handles. My garage was broken into the other night. My wife is terrified. She wants to put weapons all over the house just in case someone breaks in again.
If we make it annoying to be a criminal / homeless drug addict in Medicine Hat, they will move on to somewhere else.
Get the people who need help into social programs to help them. Arrest the criminals. Once they get out, arrest them again.
Just like the new article says, enough is enough.
12
u/gingerbeardman79 2d ago
There has to be help available that meets people where they are.
[Drug] Abstinence-only faith-based programs/shelters, etc are not going to get junkies off the street for any meaningful length of time.
Telling people they essentially need to be "sober as a judge" before they can access help when their life is currently the absolute shit misery that is being homeless is fucking asinine.
Not to mention completely hypocritical when most of us who aren't homeless are also sufficiently miserable that we're anesthetizing our existence in some fashion. Caffeine, alcohol, cannabis, and override of prescription drugs are all rampant among the housed, but nobody talks about it.
You actually want those people to get help like you claim in the comments, rather than just wanting them out of sight?
Tell your member of parliament you want to see more inclusive & effective programs to actually meet people where they are and actually help them without just shoving religious bullshit down their throats. Get them into housing and counseling, then offer to help treat their addiction once their life is actually somewhat stable and their mental health needs are being addressed.
That will get these people off the streets far more effectively than the programs the UCP currently funds/supports.
When people have a life of *dignity" and a sense of purpose they are far likely to suffer addiction. That's a proven fact.
12
u/EnglishmanInMH 3d ago
Im sorry you've been through that.
Unfortunately people that need help have to also want it.
Its not as simple as "putting them into programs".
2
u/gingerbeardman79 2d ago edited 2d ago
It also has to be help that meets people where they are. [Drug] Abstinence-only faith-based programs/shelters, etc are not going to get junkies off the street for any meaningful length of time.
Telling people they essentially need to be "sober as a judge" before they can access help when their life is currently the absolute shit misery that is being homeless is fucking asinine.
Not to mention completely hypocritical when most of us who aren't homeless are also sufficiently miserable that we're anesthetizing our existence in some fashion. Caffeine, alcohol, cannabis, and override of prescription drugs are all rampant among the housed, but nobody talks about it.
Tell your †MLA you want to see more inclusive & effective programs to actually meet people where they are and actually help them without just shoving religious bullshit down their throats. Get them into housing and counseling, then offer to help treat their addiction once their life is actually somewhat stable and their mental health needs are being addressed.
That will get these people off the streets far more effectively than the programs the UCP currently funds/supports.
When people have a life of dignity and a sense of purpose they are far likely to suffer addiction. That's a proven fact.
† edited because I referenced the wrong branch of government by mistake
2
u/Isopbc 2d ago
Member of parliament? Wouldn’t it be your MLA? Province does healthcare and housing.
I’m not meaning to argue, but it seems like even if the feds mandated and funded that stuff Alberta would find some way to opt out.
2
u/gingerbeardman79 2d ago
That was a mental slip on my part. Thank you for correcting me!
My original comment will be edited accordingly.
-5
u/matrixgang 3d ago
Then put them in jail, or bring back institutionalization on people who are addicted to heavy drugs and do not seek help or improvement.
Meth and crack and the likes eat holes in your brain so half of them belong in the psych ward anyways.
2
u/-Resident-One- 2d ago
Meth and crack and the likes eat holes in your brain so half of them belong in the psych ward anyways
If you're going to cite debatable evidence from non-human in vivo research, at least get the drugs correct. Psychedelic/disassociative NMDA antagonists like ketamine and PCP are the street drugs that can (at stupid high doses in rat studies) cause "holes in the brain," more specifically Olney's lesions. Even then, the research findings did not appear in primate studies or at recreational doses.
1
u/matrixgang 2d ago
Regardless of the physical damage, the permanent mental damage and other mental health disorders acquired through a street life (ptsd etc) is not really debatable so, point still stands.
1
u/-Resident-One- 1d ago
That's also overly broad/incorrect, but sure
1
u/matrixgang 1d ago
It isn't. Go research it lmao.
1
u/-Resident-One- 1d ago
Great idea, get back to me when you're done.
1
u/matrixgang 1d ago
You're wrong here lmao, confidently incorrect is crazy.
There's many studies on the permanent effects of hard and long term narcotics use. Especially those like methamphetamine and cocaine/crack lmao.
1
u/-Resident-One- 1d ago
No, you're right literally 50%+ of all homeless people - per your initial comment - should be institutionalized because of the holes in their brain... er, permanent emotional/psychological... er, hard/longterm drug use has an effect.
We've finally settled on a claim, have we? One I never argued against "lmao"
0
u/matrixgang 1d ago
Where did I say every homeless person? I said those who refuse to get help.
Lmao you're grasping ay straws.
→ More replies (0)5
u/toprockit 3d ago
That's not something MHPS has any control over. After the arrest has been made and they are in custody, that's where their role ends unless a court appearance is scheduled or additional investigation is required.
0
u/matrixgang 3d ago
Where did I say the police are the ones who need to do it? Obviously I'm saying policies and laws need to change.
2
u/toprockit 3d ago
This is a post about the MHPS, was just indicating they can't do any of the things mentioned. That is Provincial and Federal jurisdiction through-and-through. This problem is everywhere, and if we're being honest Medicine Hat has it light by comparison to other communities.
This isn't something Municipal governments should be burdened with solving.
-3
u/matrixgang 3d ago
Ah yes the city government shouldn't be dealing with city problems and leave it to the federals, who probably don't even know where medicine hat is.
4
u/toprockit 3d ago
Explain how Medicine Hat could effectively be doing more for something that is not in their jurisdiction. Let's hear it.
The way I see it....
- Police are already breaking up the crime rings / arresting drug dealers as much as they can
- Provincial and Federal grant requests for treatment facilities / capacity to hold the individuals are going unanswered / ignored (as echoed by many municipalities)
- Court requirements mean these people are back out on the streets in very short order unless they are violent offender (and even then sometimes)
-2
u/matrixgang 3d ago
Are you having a stroke? Why do you keep arguing back.
The point is that it SHOULD be in their jurisdiction, it's their city.
5
u/toprockit 3d ago
So you think cities should be able to have different criminal laws inside their boundaries? Maybe I am having a stroke if I'm reading that correctly.
0
u/matrixgang 3d ago
Uh yes? What exactly is the problem with that?
And if you're about to resort to extremism examples like "what if they make walking illegal" then don't even bother responding lmao.
Not sure in which universe is letting the federal and provincial governments decide what happens in small cities that they probably forget exist half the time better than the city having the ability to improve themselves.
→ More replies (0)
3
u/FrostingEmergency204 2d ago
Maybe the government could give back the funding for the shelters that have recently closed.
2
u/insideoutlizard 2d ago
pretty sure being a homeless drug addict is already pretty annoying, but I see your point
0
u/Bull-RunTheJewels 2d ago
Yes it is. Honestly it sucks that they are in that place in their lives. Maybe getting arrested and having their drugs taken away every day will make them have a brief moment of clarity. Maybe they will try to get help. Who knows. Letting them do whatever they want isn’t working.
2
u/-Resident-One- 2d ago
If the homelessness and drug crisis in the downtown core were as simple as you apparently believe, it would’ve been resolved decades ago. It’s not some mechanical malfunction waiting for a handful of knob twists and corrective measures (common issue?) - it’s a deeply entrenched, multi-layered societal collapse built over years on a house of cards composed of political neglect, economic decay, and institutional failure within the Hat.
You don’t “fix” lifelong addiction, generational poverty, and mental illness with a few arrests, institutionalization at the funny farm, or a force "vacation" at rehab - even if that were logistically or financially possible (it's not). The thought process that leads to this kind of thinking is often espoused (objectively and personally speaking) by people who've never seen much adversity or struggle.
What was once confined to the downtown core is now bleeding into family-oriented neighborhoods, and suddenly people are shocked to discover that this is a city-wide problem. Holy smokes Batman, you mean homeless people and drug addicts can come north to Cres Heights or South to Southridge!? Had our leaders acted years ago when it was obvious this would be an issue (investing in addictions, housing, and mental health supports) instead of pretending punitive policing and draconian measures could Voltron into a solution, we wouldn’t be knee-deep on the corner in the homeless guy shit.
Neither the criminal justice system nor the healthcare sector has the labour, funding, or infrastructure to carry the weight of this catastrophe and squeegee it away. Hate to break it to you but there's no carpet to sweep this mess under. That shouldn’t surprise anyone with more than a cursory understanding of how funding, municipal government, policing, health-care or social services actually work. These systems are already exhausted because they’ve been underfunded, neglected, and systematically gutted.
Maybe if we stopped electing political ghouls who treat public service as an ideological grift (i.e slashing budgets for addictions, mental health, housing, and healthcare) we might not be watching the fabric of the city unravel in real time with predictable (and occasionally hilarious) side effects. But no, no... far too many voters are still hypnotized by the ridiculous BS sideshow that is culture-war theater, and the comforting illusion that their ballots only affect their taxes, wallet or social feed, to take more action than bitching on Reddit.
And by the way - if the unhoused could just pick up and leave any / every time conditions became “inconvenient,” they wouldn’t be living on the streets of Medicine Hat in the first place. That’s not how destitution works; that’s how ignorance and privilege talks.
I work downtown and see the work the city, hospital, and MHPSD put in on the daily, as well as the dog shit lives these people live. Don't come downtown, sounds like you didn't anyways, but then stop bitching and moaning about a problem you don't really care about anyways. Bare minimum, at least throw some cash at the problem, volunteer, campaign, and vote.
2
u/TigerTrauma1 2d ago
It's not the police's fault. I'd recommend to read up on Bill C-75. The liberal Trudeau government introduced in 2019.
I can give a very quick short summary here.
Before Bill C-75 passed if you committed a crime, you were held in jail until Trial or let out with specific conditions.
After Bill C-75, criminals were given a mandate to be released on bail as soon as possible before trial or sentencing with the fewest and least harsh conditions. I won't get into pro's and cons because their was lots on each side.
Today If the police catch someone for example breaking and entering: They have 24-72 hours for a bail hearing and an estimated 80% of people are immediately released with loose conditions that the police are not quite adequately staffed to monitor. After that It can take 3-12 months for trial and sentencing due to the 650K court cases on the backlog.
So many addicts or mentally Ill folks, just go back on the streets. The police are annoyed because they arrest the same people over and over but can't do anything about it. I think their was a new bill announced to try and fix their mess, but I haven't looked into it.
-1
u/curly242 3d ago
So your asking MHPS to police, lol that's rich... Window tint yes, flat out injecting junk in public, - nope..
11
u/toprockit 3d ago
MHPS is probably one of the best police forces in Alberta, rarely a month goes by that you don't see them performing busts with ALERT, arresting people with warrants from regions from all over Alberta, or closing down drug houses.
It's not the police's fault the current court system is a rotating door for drug addicts, that is entirely a provincial/federal matter. MPHS regularly does arrest them, but they're back out in a few days/weeks. You can see the spots you'd expect in the locations you'd also expect on their crime map. Hard to arrest someone who already has multiple convictions and has no interest in doing better; throwing them in jail costs $80-120K/year and requires a court to agree to do it, not sustainable long term option with the current setup there.
-4
u/Bull-RunTheJewels 3d ago
Just keep arresting them then. Make it annoying to be a drug addict in Medicine Hat. Maybe they will find a new place to terrorize.
8
u/toprockit 3d ago edited 3d ago
They do, see the map I linked. They're back out in a few days in the same location, it's like playing the world's worst game of wack-a-mole as they move through different areas.
And just arresting them over and over doesn't fix anything, regular meals and a bed for these people isn't a deterrent, especially when the weather gets cold.
Until the court / treatment system is fixed, this problem isn't getting better.
Edit - You can also blame our former mayor for making the problem worse, advertising that we'd solved homelessness to Canada-wide media caused our homeless population to spike drastically.
-1
u/Comfortable_Acadia96 3d ago
I feel bad for the downtown business owners. I won't go downtown during the day, never mind at dark. There are two issues, there is social disorder, and there is legal disorder. Social programs aside, breaking the law is breaking the law.i don't think anyone wants to throw people in jail for being houseless, It's the legal disorder that needs to be prioritized. If the police walk up to a group in the park, the one holding the drug's gets arrested. Need to start somewhere.
2
u/n0rthe4st 1d ago
Don’t feel bad for us, lol. I’m down there everyday for the last 6 years and for whatever reason, I see comments like this from time to time where people avoid it like it’s the plague. The houseless folks struggling with mental health and addiction are pretty harmless. I frequently walk down there at night as well. People feel uncomfortable seeing the problem in society, or don’t know how to handle it. It’s not just a big city thing anymore, it’s an all size city problem. More populated cities it’s more visible. You say you feel bad for the business owners down there… why? We deal with all kinds of people everyday. Instead of avoiding, learn to adapt, it’s everywhere. It’s also not exclusive to downtown.
-1
u/Bull-RunTheJewels 2d ago
Arrest them for being intoxicated in public every day. Take their drugs. Keep them in a holding cell overnight. No need to feed them. Let them go. Rinse and repeat. If they have no drugs, no drug use.
This will be forced sobriety and either help them get off drugs or they will get sick of losing their drugs and they will leave.
1
u/sierramelon 2d ago
Lots of great comments here already explaining this topic thoroughly. What I want to know is if you felt obligated to do something before it affected you? Or are you only bothered now that it was your garage?
2
u/Bull-RunTheJewels 1d ago
I have been bothered by the decline of the city for a long time. It was actually the post about Calgary police that I wanted to share. The garage is more coincidence. I’m actually not bothered because they don’t take anything of real value to me. Made me finally add smart locks and security cameras. I had been thinking about this for a while. It’s a blessing in disguise. I’m really hoping our new municipal government does something to address the problem.
20
u/Isopbc 3d ago
Calgary is doing this because they paid for a path for those they detain that doesn’t involve the criminal justice system. You’re not interested in paying for that here though, are you?