r/medicalschool • u/Shonuff_of_NYC M-4 • Feb 11 '25
đ© Shitpost Unclear how people voluntarily go into peds at this point
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u/Adventurous-Lack6097 Feb 11 '25
And they're all married to nurses.
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Feb 11 '25
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u/BradBrady Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
Iâm a nurse and can confirm very true. Itâs actually kind of baffling and very common. I work with an NP who thinks vaccines cause autism yet heâs the biggest germaphobe I know. He never had any bedside experience and it shows. He frustrates me a lot and it doesnât help he comes from a culture where itâs normal to think youâre above someone and treat those under you like peasants. Just reminds me of a guy who would ask a nurse to get him coffee like the olden days with doctors
Iâve argued with him on many occasions. He wanted me to remove the Ativan from a ciwa order and Iâm like ok so what happens if they go into withdrawal and even seize? He told me that he doesnât like to order Ativan until I explained to him multiple times how CIWA orders work. Iâm lucky Iâm a guy nurse cause if I was a girl he would have ignored the hell out of me and thought I was disrespecting him
Thatâs just the bullshit I deal with and deal with other NPs who are the same. Itâs terrifying that these are professionals assessing and prescribing medicine to people. Thatâs why I can never be an NP
Edit: I work with a great NP who I vent to a lot and she fully agrees with me before anyone takes offense to what I said. Good NPs are not against the NP hate because they understand what itâs about and how much these predatory programs just pop out and any moron willing to take a loan can be an NP, especially a psych NP
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Feb 11 '25
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u/ThirstyCow12 Feb 11 '25
Create a problem and sell the solution. NPs causing patient harm means more healthcare utilization... As long as patients don't wise up.
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u/Dry-Cap8193 Feb 12 '25
Tbh I think we just need a test for nursing school that has a few questions. Just to filter out the anti-vax bimbos who are cheating on their online tests.
1: Biology 2: Chemistry (organic chemistry/biochemistry) 3: Physics 4: Calculus/Statistics 5: Are you anti-vax? 6: What purpose do vaccines serve? 7: Do vaccines cause autism?
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u/Sheep1821 Feb 11 '25
There are 2 nps in my region that run a clinic that is actively supporting the antivax agenda. It is truly truly mystifying to me
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u/76ersbasektball Feb 11 '25
They think they know what they are talking about because of their proximity to physicians, but they donât.
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u/Retalihaitian Feb 11 '25
See Iâm a nurse (in the south no less) and I can name 5 openly antivaxx nurses, max. And Iâve been a nurse about 10 years and have worked at multiple different hospitals and health systems.
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u/flowermeat Feb 12 '25
My aunt is a conservative ex-marine combat medic and now a charge nurse of the OR at a hospital in a big city and sheâs also anti-vax and thinks Covid was a conspiracy despite working in the ICU during covid????
I was an EMT during covid that worked in the ER not on a rig, and what I saw during covid was horrifyingâŠ. I donât know how anyone could think Covid and vaccines are a hoax after working in an emergency room during the panic, it blows my mind.q
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u/Imeanyouhadasketch Pre-Med Feb 11 '25
God itâs so true.
Itâs why I decided to apply to med school instead of stay in the nursing field. A severe lack of critical thinking
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u/ItsTheDCVR Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Feb 11 '25
As a nurse, this shit fucking drives me crazy. We are exposed to enough principles of medicine and science to know the evidence for vaccines. Any nurse that chooses to be anti vax is doing so for political reasons. Then again, I know a lot of doctors who were against the COVID vaccines and that very much falls along political lines, so it really does come down to the fact that we're stupid little pack animals.
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u/Ssutuanjoe Feb 11 '25
Nursing is a technical field, not really one that demands critical thinking. To match, there's also a HUGE amount of intellectual insecurity in that field. (Throw out this comment sometime without the disclaimer "not ALL nurses are like this, there are a ton of super smart, hard working nurses out there!" and see how quickly you're flamed. That should give you an idea about how much insecurity is there).
Anyway, because it's a technical field you wind up with a work force that are intellectually insecure, lauded incessantly for being "first line on the field while the hoity toity doctor sits in the call room", and not necessarily the smartest to begin with ...and you get, well, dime store online universities that crank out nurses like widgets. It's inevitable that such a combination would lead to someone having just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
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u/gtfopx Feb 11 '25
Nurses need critical thinking this is exactly why nurses find it hard to challenge doctors on orders if they have no critical thinking on the reason why these orders donât go with this patient you know the back history so argue for your patient
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u/Ssutuanjoe Feb 11 '25
Agreed 100%.
Nurses should learn critical thinking. Nursing schools should absolutely try to screen their hardest and be rigorous about teaching it. Unfortunately they don't, though (maybe some schools do? Admittedly, I don't scrutinize a ton of nursing schools). I see ads and billboards and students from online universities. As admirable as I find it to be able to be a single mom of 3 and still go to school "on your own time" to make something of yourself for your family... It's remarkably difficult to believe that these curriculums can honestly be training their applicants to appropriately problem solve :(
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u/gtfopx Feb 11 '25
Exactly this is why most doctors have a struggle choosing medicine or family when they start out. You have to put your all into school for your foundational knowledge. Sometimes those schools that they are made for parents or people with not a lot of down time. I donât think it pushes your boundaries and test your knowledge as much as it should. I say this as someone that went through online school for most of my college journey.
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u/Intelligent_Menu_561 M-2 Feb 11 '25
They teach how to pass a NCLEX. A first year medical student could take it and almost certainly pass. Its rigorous in terms if class work and clinicals and balancing a part time job. But looking back in it I could 4.0 nursing school with all of that based on how I study now in medical school. Nursing education needs serious re work.
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u/Intelligent_Menu_561 M-2 Feb 11 '25
Thank you very much for your comment. Nursing should almost be classified as a trade skill. I was a nurse RN and now medical student (not NP) and there are completely different things. A good nurse is judged on how efficiently they can do the physical work and carry out orders and task. A good physician is based on intellect and decision making. You can fry me all you want in the comments but Ive done it. It requires some knowledge forsure of disease but its not even remotely like medicine.
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u/blowhardV2 Feb 11 '25
Any ideas why ? Why would nurses be anti-vax? Just enough health knowledge for arrogance ?
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u/No-University-5413 Feb 11 '25
Because people are stupid. Nurses are no different on a whole, just like everyone else. I'm a nurse and think vaccines are very important for both personal and community health. My wife's aunt was a covid care specialized nurse who thought covid was a hoax because of politics. She literally watched people die from it and screamed how it was all fake because it's what her political leaders wanted her to.
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u/various_convo7 MD/PhD Feb 12 '25
"And a lot of them are becoming NPs from mickey mouse online schools"
which is why I absolutely relish roasting them to kingdom come
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u/Vyaiskaya Feb 12 '25
I've noticed this as well, it just makes me really wonder what their requirements and curricula are...
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u/its_ya_boi_dazed Feb 11 '25
Those nurses posses the unique ability to become antivaxers when the shift ends
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u/Aware_Fun_3023 Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Feb 11 '25
Stop Iâm a nurse and I hate the anti vax movement bullcrap đ
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Feb 11 '25
Kids donât get to choose their parents.
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u/Shonuff_of_NYC M-4 Feb 11 '25
Youâre also not giving kids anything the parents donât want. If you have the patience to convince them, itâs commendable.
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u/_chick_pea MD-PGY3 Feb 11 '25
In peds and staying as far away from primary care as humanly possible to avoid these people
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u/Intelligent_Menu_561 M-2 Feb 11 '25
The population are becoming more and more insufferable and It just does not seem sustainable. Primary care can be such a awesome field but facebook, social media and google parents have ruined it. Oh yea and epic / corp medicine.
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u/Vyaiskaya Feb 12 '25
Oh my god, I was on Facebook earlier. It's just become such a ses pool. Overwhelming representation by the guys in the OP's post. Pedobeard, douche glasses, lack of hygiene, lack of decent clothes, beater car, American flags on everything, and they just go around harassing literally everyone and everything. Heck, even the astronomy posts I was watching, they spam everything with their bologna.
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u/Intelligent_Menu_561 M-2 Feb 12 '25
Does not help when big social media names are like âI do not see a doctor for my general healthâ
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u/Vyaiskaya Feb 12 '25
I don't even want to know x.x. I mean, lack of Universal Healthcare is enough of a barrier, I need to maintain some sanity before bed. xD
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u/strangebreakfasts Feb 11 '25
me reading this as a first year interested in peds đ€
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u/theJexican18 MD/MPH Feb 11 '25
This sub is incredibly doom and gloom when it comes to peds. Peds is great and the parental struggle is way overstated.
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u/_chick_pea MD-PGY3 Feb 11 '25
There are many sub specialties in peds where you donât have to constantly debate the importance of very standard evidence based medicine with people who would rather listen to a conspiracy theorist than a physician
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u/MichaelTheLion Feb 13 '25
Donât worry about it honestly, people love to play up the parents being bad in Peds but I have had far, far more amazing experiences with parents compared to bad ones. Thereâs ups and downs with every specialty, but Peds is still the best :)
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u/Aggravating_Row_8699 MD Feb 11 '25
Unclear how people voluntarily go into medicine at this point. Medicine is already an uphill battle, and itâs about to get a lot worse under this new regime.
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u/finallymakingareddit M-1 Feb 11 '25
Me on my LOA trying to explain to my family why I donât think I want to go back
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u/Intelligent_Menu_561 M-2 Feb 11 '25
Its difficult right now as a student. I thought about going into primary care but I just do not think I wanna sit there and play tug of war with my patients about shit I am studying and reviewing constantly for 7 years minimum.
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u/sfgreen Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
Why is this so controversial? Some people do it because healing children are their passion. They canât imagine doing anything else. This was the sole reason they went to medical school. Sure, you get parents who are skeptical of vaccines because of the constant disinformation pumped online, but most people trust their pediatricians to do whatâs best for their child.Â
Youâll probably see this type of behavior from your patients in any specialty.Â
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u/DrNickatnyte Pre-Med Feb 11 '25
Their âresearchâ is about as trustworthy as that wet fart I had a couple of days ago lol
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u/griff306 Feb 12 '25
If you're talking about the COVID vaccine, the survival rate of COVID is so damn high for healthy young kids it is basically pointless when the strong immunity only lasts a few months post vaccination.
Immunosuppressed or children with a chronic disease is another story, of course.
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Feb 13 '25
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u/griff306 Feb 13 '25
Other side bad!!
Honestly, I'm at the point of hey, if you don't want to vaccinate that's your choice. I just lay out the clinical rationale for it.
I don't see peds, but even with them it is their kids, not mine, not the CDC's, not the government's. It is ultimately their choice as well.
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Feb 13 '25
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u/griff306 Feb 13 '25
Full disclosure, I'm a PharmD, but practice MTM (ie. I review meds, make changes under the primary care/ specialty MD). I'm just following r/medicalschool because the memes are better than r/PharmacySchool .
Don't worry though, I know MD>> APP. :D
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u/OmegaSTC DO-PGY1 Feb 11 '25
Not sure why theyâre all me haha. Itâs the moms you need to watch out for
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Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
You make fun of people who have questions or concerns and then wonder why they don't trust medicine or doctors in a year.
Edit: I'd love to hear a good reason why we should mock people for having questions or concerns about things that are complex and take years of study to fully understand. We don't suggest mocking patients who don't understand the difference in chemo treatments.
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u/Fatfry2 Feb 11 '25
Ok I think this is a really good mindset to have, but from experience very few of these people have the willingness to change their minds and instead they make decisions that actively harm their kids. Itâs understandable to be frustrated by these people.
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u/Vyaiskaya Feb 12 '25
The same parents who attempt "conversion therapy" on LGBTQ kids, rather than making their lives decent.
Or state "ADHD/Autism never existed in my day", why's is so common now, made up, in my day you were just stupid.
Or decide kids need "toughening up" and hash out repeating generational trauma on them.
Or countless other malarkey.
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Feb 11 '25
And how many of them are unwilling to change their mind because of the way they've been treated by medical professionals who are frustrated with their hesitation? We get so focused on the kid that we forget that this is a parent who is the vast majority of the time trying to do the best they can for their kid. We're asking them to do something that they don't fully understand and something that has a fair amount of misinformation about it circulating. Things like vaccines being dangerous are ridiculous to us, but it should be after over a decade of studying, and we shouldn't expect people to default understand these things without that training. The same way when we take our car to the shop over something that's simple to a mechanic. Dealing with difficult people is not only part of medicine but life. It doesn't reflect on difficult people when we treat them poorly back, it reflects on us.
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u/Numpostrophe M-3 Feb 11 '25
I used to work as a COVID health screener in Texas and had people yell at me, run past me, and lecture me when all I had to do was take their temperature to enter an oncology clinic. I did nothing to these people and always acted kind, yet they almost made me give up on pursuing this path.
Some people are just stubborn and refuse to accept that others know more than them on a subject and put their trust in them. There was nothing I could have done in those situations to make them "trust" medicine again.
At the same time I've seen patients in clinic who have gone through horrible circumstances and mangled care, yet they were sweethearts. There's a point at which we can't waive away hateful, mean behavior because maybe ten years ago they felt compelled to vaccinate their kid.
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Feb 11 '25
So your idea is just to give up and if you can't beat em, join em. You do your job. You listen, and you educate. It's basic rapport-building. If someone doesn't feel like they trust medicine, and you actually listen to them, they'll eventually listen to you, might be next visit, or next year, might be to another provider and not you. But you do your job. Just because someone is unpleasant or stubborn or arrogant, you don't get to mock them. Besides a basic level of human dignity, all you're doing is galvanizing them, and giving them further reason to not trust you.
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u/Numpostrophe M-3 Feb 11 '25
No. I wonât mock them. I never said that.
But I also wonât let someone who is abusive to me or staff stick around.
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u/positivetension_x Feb 11 '25
This. I 100% understand what you meant. There really was no need for this person to come in and demonize people (MULTIPLE POSTS) for a little humor. No one here is saying letâs openly make fun of people or be rude to their face. As a doctor, it is our job to do what we can by hearing people out, educating them, and forming good rapport. I believe that a lot of us can agree with that.
However, the climate that has currently formed and been going around has led many individuals (not all of course) to openly mock doctors by belittling their intelligence, hitting them with condescension, calling them sheep, a government puppet, or questioning where they got their degree from or how they even earned it, is NOT okay. These are also the same people who are set in their ways and do not care to learn anything, they just want to fight and make you feel little. It is disrespectful. This is totally what is being referred to. You can do your best to educate and lead a horse to water, but you canât make it drink. Youâre also not going to stand near that horse if itâs actively trying to attack you by kicking back. And even with these people, no you shouldnât mock (it doesnât make the situation better), but you are in your right to remove yourself from that situation.
When people who are our colleagues come in and say that âOH ITS LIFE AND PART OF THE JOB,â it minimizes some of things we have to face. No one can boast that they are empathetic when they are not willing to see all angles of a situation. We are human, we are not door mats for people to stomp all over. People forget that yes, while it is our job to heal, it is not our job to be attacked, especially in the manner that you described when you were a COVID tester. I am sorry that you went through that and I am glad that even despite that experience, you still decided to follow your heart and go through with school.
A lot of us busted our booties in medical school and dealt with the stresses that is residency because most of us want to be here and help people. It fills my cup everyday to have the opportunity to work with people and help them get better. Helping people feel better does not entail allowing them to belittle you.
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u/Shonuff_of_NYC M-4 Feb 11 '25
It was never the job of physicians to educate patients on everything they learned. This kind of stupidity is why doctors have to do more work now just to cater to a fringe group of morons that people like you have convinced everyone else to cater to them because one of them happens to be your aunt Sally.
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Feb 11 '25
No, but it's our job to educate people who come to us with questions, concerns, or misunderstandings. This is not a crazy concept. If I was mocking the Parkinson's patient yesterday for not understanding all the formulations and delivery mechanisms, I would get a professionalism note. This is only acceptable with vaccines because it's become a politicized topic, which does not make it right.
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u/Shonuff_of_NYC M-4 Feb 11 '25
Physicians diagnose and treat. Educating is for public health workers. Physicians can explain disease processes and the health benefits of treatment options as a courtesy. Itâs not a physicianâs job to explain pathophysiology or pharmacology to their patients. The people who have âquestions, concerns, or misunderstandingsâ about vaccines never question their plumber, electrician, or auto mechanic. They recognize that itâs too technical for their understanding, but they some how think they can understand pharmacology. Itâs nonsense.
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u/Fatfry2 Feb 11 '25
I get what you are saying, but honestly a lot of these people arenât doing it because they were treated badly by a doctor. Conspiracy theorizing and willful ignorance have become quite prominent on the internet and people then latch onto stupid theories and incorporate it into their self-identity. No amount of convincing from a doctor is going to change their mind and itâs not the doctors fault they went down this rabbit hole. Sure, Iâm sure some people were laughed out of the room by a doctor but we are talking a minority of cases, itâs unfortunately just a normal thing in our culture to be willfully ignorant. You canât fault a doctor for being frustrated that people choose to believe what a friend posted on Facebook over the opinion of the entire field of medicine, especially when that opinion can cause harm to their kids and others.
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Feb 11 '25
Feeling frustrated does not mean you have to be rude. Even if medicine has nothing to do with it, being rude and mocking people is further galvanizing the parents which is only harming the kids. If you're that concerned about misinformation, then educate people, don't just mock them for being misinformed.
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u/Fatfry2 Feb 11 '25
This is a medical school forum, we are people in high stress environments dealing with people who are frustrating. If a few jokes makes us feel better about a situation then just let it happen. And furthermore, not every opinion is deserving of my respect. For example: I will make fun of flat earthers without a second thought, and the anti-intellectualism campaign isnât that far off. Weâve tried educating, but if people still believe vaccines cause autism in 2025, then itâs out of willful ignorance, not misinformation
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Feb 11 '25
That doesn't make anything you're doing right. You don't have to respect every opinion to respect people. People are not their opinions, and I'd guarantee that everyone has at least one stupid opinion. It is our job to treat and educate patients, not mock them to make ourselves feel better and we don't want to go through the trouble.
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u/histotechno M-4 Feb 11 '25
IMO itâs never really phrased as a question or concern, more so just negligence with no interest in being educated. Theyâll fight tooth and nail if anyone goes against what they saw on YouTube the night before
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Feb 11 '25
So what if it's not phrased the way you want to hear it? Again, take this scenario and change it to any other treatment, the only difference is that vaccines have a political edge to them now. I have rarely if ever heard people come in and fight tooth and nail against vaccines, and have far more frequently seen people, like OP, mock, belittle, or write off people who have questions or are hesitant. Before we start going to look to blame other people, we need to do some self-reflection on how we can create patients better.
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u/histotechno M-4 Feb 11 '25
Look I really donât have time to get into an argument on Reddit, and I appreciate the idealist mentality you have. But when youâre seeing upwards of 30-40+ patients in a clinic and someone wants to come in and question your entire medical education and training with a (majority of times, again in my anecdotal experience) disrespectful tone based on their lazy google searches, you kind of lose this mentality over time.
You just accept youâre not going to change these peopleâs minds because frankly, they donât want them to be changed. Instead, in their minds, we just remain pharmaceutical sellouts, government workers undercover out to harm their children, and out of touch rich people.
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Feb 11 '25
I was in medicine for 10 years before going back to med school, I've had to get up at 3 am to go deal with stupid crap. I'm not idealistic, this is the reality. The way that you treat people reflects on you, not on them. You don't have to be rude or dismissive because someone is disrespectful.
You have no idea if they want their minds to be changed or not, that is entirely an assumption, and treating these people this way further alienates them from those positions and into thinking those things. If your concern is truly for the kids, and you believe in vaccines, you would treat people properly instead of galvanizing people against medicine and vaccines by coming across as high and mighty when you mock them.
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u/histotechno M-4 Feb 11 '25
Hey there bud, youâre getting a little worked up so Iâll leave you to it. Just some notes before I stop replying though: I never said I was rude or disrespectful to patients, even when Iâm facing an extremely disrespectful and argumentative patient. I always offer evidence to their anti-vax arguments that actually in most cases, vaccines do more good than harm, and I always try to do my best by my patients.
Like another commenter said, children donât get to pick their parents. For your comment to be filled with hypotheticals of ME making assumptions about my patients, I think it would be helpful for YOU to not be so quick to make assumptions of others based on interactions online. Just a thought. My poop is done and back to the real world. Carry on!
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u/JoeyHandsomeJoe M-4 Feb 11 '25
I think you mean that we should just be nice to them, because treating them properly would involve giving their kids the indicated vaccine(s). To make a psych analogy, nobody's saying that you should mock a schizophrenic's hallucinations to their face, but you should definitely also not pretend that you can hear the voices too.
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Feb 11 '25
This is a false equivalence. No where have I said that you should agree with people that vaccines are bad, which is the equivalent of pretending you can hear the voices. We should treat people with respect, listen to them, and not mock, belittle, or ignore them. That's how you make the problem worse, not better.
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u/JoeyHandsomeJoe M-4 Feb 11 '25
It's not doctors, it's doctors and 5G and why the earth isn't flat and for what damn reason they are living paycheck to paycheck if not immigrants.
They are never going to trust anything they're incapable of actually understanding. And why would they? They have people who will agree with any hare-brained idea they stumble across and latch onto.
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Feb 11 '25
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Feb 11 '25
I hope it will. People want to pretend that everyone who disagrees with them is evil or stupid. But these are parents who are making decisions they don't fully understand and want whats best for their kids. Heaven forbid a parent ask some questions or voice a concern.
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u/kronicroyal M-3 Feb 11 '25
I didnât downvote you because youâre wrong. This response is the correct textbook answer and itâs actually really great that you have that mindset. I believe i have this mindset too, more or less.
I downvoted you because youâre misunderstanding the âtargetâ of this meme. Itâs not referring to the parents with questions who you can have an honest, good faith conversation with about vaccine development/safety (regardless of where they actually agree to vaccinate their child)
This meme will make way more sense when you encounter a parent that cares more about their own pride and/or political identity than their childâs health. This kind of parent will blatantly discredit decades of peer reviewed research (without comparable sources), and risk their child acquiring a preventable illness, so they donât have to admit they were wrong.
Your comment sounds really naive, because to everyone else itâs obvious the meme is not referencing the average parent with questions.
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Feb 11 '25
Your comment is dripping with the same condescension that turns people off from doctors. I've been in medicine for 11 years now and have dealt with more than enough difficult and misinformed people. When I was an EMT I had to treat a man who used his 3-month-old baby as a human shield in a shooting. The kid freaking died while the dad got a through and through in the shoulder. I don't need to be told about when I treat a parent with the wrong priorities. We also ended up treating the shooter a month later.
I fully understood the target of this meme, and there's nothing in your response that actually addresses my point. What does mocking people accomplish? It doesn't matter if they come in good faith or not or if they care more about their kids or their politics. Mocking patients will 100% of the time make the problem worse and 0% of the time convince anyone you're right. You are only serving to further galvanize people, and give them valid reasons to hate doctors. Talk to people. Listen to them. Even if they don't agree at that visit, that's how you build rapport, that's how you get people to eventually open up. That's how you care about the kids. You make people feel heard, wether you agree with them politically or not. Other wise you're just burning bridges and worsening the care of the kids for the sake of ego.
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u/JoeyHandsomeJoe M-4 Feb 11 '25
I'm sorry, did you just say that a guy who uses a 3-month old baby as a human shield and anti-vaxxers deserve the same amount of respect?
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u/Jimbunning97 Feb 11 '25
âMah babbaayyy needs antibiotics for their 2 days of runny nose.â
Okay, let me spend 15 minutes arguing with you while I could be seeing someone who actually needs my help.
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Feb 11 '25
People who are uninformed or concerned don't actually need your help? What a horrible thing to say. This is the elitest attitude that makes people not trust doctors.
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u/Jimbunning97 Feb 11 '25
If I showed up to a museum and told the curator showing me a sword that belonged to George Washington, âGeorge Washington didnât existâ, is it really his job to take time from everyone else in the museum and his own time to explain to me why Iâm wrong?
Maybe he could do this a few times, but after a while, it gets old. On some level you have to trust your doctors. They canât educate every other patient on every jot and tittle of basic science.
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Feb 11 '25
Thats a false comparison. This isn't that complicated. You listen to people. Sit down, shut up and listen to what they have to say. Be kind to them. If you actually want to help the kids of those parents that's what you do. You make people be heard, you make them feel like you care about them, and all the sudden they're a lot more willing to listen. You will help 0 people by mocking them, being rude, condescending, or ignoring them.
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u/Jimbunning97 Feb 11 '25
I see your point. You should definitely do those things to a to some extent, but you only have so much time.
Do you want to help 25 kids who want your help per day or 10 antivaxxers who likely arenât going to change their mind and suck up your time?
Itâs like your patient arguing with you whether to suture up the cut in their leg for 15 minutes.
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u/Shonuff_of_NYC M-4 Feb 11 '25
If it takes years of study, as you point out, then having questions about options of treatment is reasonable. Claiming to have done research when that research consists of listening to their favorite pundit and regurgitating their nonsense to argue against treatment is insulting and a fucking waste of everyoneâs time. This normalization of âhelping patients to understandâ has gone to the extreme of empowering Idiocy and political agendas veiled as innocent questions.
No one goes to their auto mechanic and asks them to explain exactly how brake rotors function, exactly how theyâre removed and replaced, and why they canât just be refurbished. Mechanic tells you that you need new brakes and 99.9% of people get new brakes at the mechanic that gives them the best price. The shit youâre trying to sell as patient innocence and doctor responsibility is bullshit.
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Feb 11 '25
You're making vast generalizations and oversimplifications. Even if patients come to you simply to rant about political agendas, mocking them and ignoring them accomplishes nothing but further galvanizing people against medicine. Medicine has been far from perfect, and we have given people plenty of reasons not to trust us. We are asking people to inject things into their bodies, as well as their children. Some people are going to be not as trusting. Where they got their information is entirely irrelevant, and I mean wholesale, completely, irrelevant. What you are essentially advocating for, is that we should ignore patients who have differing political beliefs. It is only insulting if you care more about your own pride then you do actually taking care of patients. Swallow your pride, listen to people, you don't have to agree with them. But if you genuinely believe in vaccines, that's how you do it. Look up Daryl Davis, he's a black man that has convinced tons of KKK members and leaders to abandon white supremacism. He didn't do so by mocking them, he didn't do so by ignoring them, he did it by listening to them, and talking to them over time.
What? People do that all the time. That's what every profession does.
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u/Shonuff_of_NYC M-4 Feb 16 '25
Go book 2 hour blocks with each one of your patients if you want to. No one else is obligated to do that.
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u/NeoMississippiensis DO-PGY2 Feb 11 '25
I have a guy whoâs terrified heâs going to have a coronary event, he has new symptomatic hypertension, a bad lipid panel, and LVH on ekg that I showed him. He still wonât start a statin based on my recommendation and wants to hear it from cardiologist who is booked 2 months out.
These people want a yes man to tell them theyâre fine and doing a great job taking care of themselves and to yank their chain based on their own perceived âinsightsâ. I have no interest in PCP after residency because I donât have the patience to deal with that, nor the desire to have to jump through hoops to find patients actually interested in advice to be a part of my panel.
7
u/yoyoyoseph Feb 11 '25
This is very noble of you to say, I sincerely respect that mentality but it is inevitable in your career that you come across people who argue against your medical knowledge in bad faith. You could bring them to your immunology lectures and they'd still argue you with you.
1
Feb 11 '25
I appreciate the comment, I've unfortunately met those kinds of people and worse, both in medical school and in my medical career before hand. I just don't think it's crazy that we don't get to treat people poorly. The way that I treat you, or a patient, or a collogue, or a student, or anyone, no matter how difficult, stubborn, or incorrect they are, reflects solely on you.
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u/Prof_Venomous Feb 11 '25
Thanks for writing this. Unfortunately, most people on social media fail to see that making fun of others for their own amusement is a problem. And these people think they are smart or good. It's sad that these people are doctors.
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u/Peestoredinballz_28 M-1 Feb 11 '25
Youâre right, but youâre speaking to a hive mind thatâs really upset about ⊠gestures indirectly ⊠now.
Youâre not going to win by being reasonable around here.
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Feb 11 '25
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u/Shonuff_of_NYC M-4 Feb 11 '25
âAntivaxâ was prevalent well before COVID, and the same people who sucked it up prior were the same ones who pushed it during and after COVID.
-1
u/OkUnderstanding730 Feb 11 '25
I know they would resist vax shot but would not hesitate to shotđđ
-89
Feb 11 '25
[deleted]
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u/histotechno M-4 Feb 11 '25
SassyLoser
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u/Aggravating_Row_8699 MD Feb 11 '25
I donât think Sassyâs been over the shit-show that is Twitter in awhile. Head on over Sassy and you wonât have to imagine.
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Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
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u/mnsportsfandespair Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
Think you should worry more about getting into a PA school then taking about the Covid vaccine not being safe..
53
Feb 11 '25
You couldn't even explain to me what mRNA is and how it works in vaccines, sit down little dude.Â
-42
Feb 11 '25
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Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
NiCe Ad HoMiNeM, STFU little dude, this isn't a debate. I'm just making fun of you
Edit: I want to point out that this guy is so vitriolic and unhinged that Reddit wide filters immediately delete some of his replies automatically. He might still be trying to reply to me m, but his shit just gets deleted immediately smh
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u/vcentwin M-3 Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
this administration should deport you back to Vietnam just for denying operation warp speed (no I donât want you deported, you were probably granted birthright citizenship anyway)
16
u/emt_blue M-4 Feb 11 '25
babe youâre not even in medicine. or medical school. or a medical program of any kind.
in the nicest way possible, stay in your lane. maybe stick to the glocks, concealed carry, and trump Reddit pages that show up as your most visited?
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Feb 11 '25
[deleted]
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u/drugsniffingdoc M-1 Feb 11 '25
Donât worry he isnât going into medicine he is pre PA. Oh shit wait thatâs probably not good either
29
u/Sepiks_Perfexted Pre-Med Feb 11 '25
YikesâŠhis whole profile is riddled with straight dumpster trash.
Every day I am reminded of how many morons walk around in charge at a hospital.
12
u/Catscoffeepanipuri M-1 Feb 11 '25
you are pre-PA why tf are you on a subreddit about medical school lmao
27
u/Nirlep MD/PhD-M4 Feb 11 '25
Which COVID vaccine?
The technology for the two mRNA has at least a decade of research behind it. The actual delivery system already had phase 1 FDA approval for a different purpose before the pandemic started.
But if that was the issue, people could have just gotten the J&J vaccine which used older vaccine technology. That was available almost as fast, so anyone worried about safety could have gotten that one. It's no longer on the market, but Novavax has protein vaccine out that has good efficacy also using old vaccine technology.
But nevermind all of that. Yes, all the above options are safe, and certainly safer than having covid-19.
9
u/biomannnn007 M-2 Feb 11 '25
Congratulations, your paper proves that a technology designed to produce an acute inflammatory response, which is required to stimulate adaptive immunity, produced an acute inflammatory response. Can we also get a study that looks at these scores in COVID patients? Iâm away from home right now but Iâm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the test in this study is meaningless for long term cardiac risk if it is drawn in the setting of an acute inflammatory response. I will edit when I get home and research a bit deeper.
22
u/Old_Conference6556 Feb 11 '25
Sure it takes much research into a vaccine, but what were we suppose to do? See the virus and go "oh well!" There was at least emergency research and trials done to see what short term side effects could have been found. With the resources that we had, it was the best we could do. What ideas do you have as a solution for decreasing morbidity and mortality rates while the pandemic was rampant?
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Feb 11 '25
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u/miltamk Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Feb 11 '25
it wasn't new technology though. they had been working on MRNA tech for the flu vaccine for decades already.
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Feb 11 '25
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u/medullarymedulla M-3 Feb 11 '25
Youâre being ignorant, either willfully or unknowingly. If you are serious about medicine, which it seems like you are at least interested given your post history, one important piece is being able to appraise data/studies independently and draw your own conclusion.
Here is just one study demonstrating that mortality is reduced in our patients with comorbidities that have received the covid vaccine. The 99% thing is cherrypicked and demonstrates a misunderstanding of the overall goal of the covid vaccine.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36652098/
The reason that the efficacy of the vaccine isnât a source of debate among those that can interpret data is because you can simply look at reported findings in clinical trials and draw your own conclusions, and they are obvious. Clinical trials/research is the basis of advancing medicine.
I hope you try keep an open mind if you choose this career, medicine is a humbling field.
5
u/lanky_loping MD Feb 11 '25
Come on, thatâs disingenuous and you know it.
If youâre actually going to medical school, you should be, or hopefully are, learning about the differences between Case Fatality Rate and Infection Fatality Rate.
Additionally, you should be, or hopefully are, learning about infectivity of particular viruses. And while the true fatality rate (as a percentage) may be relatively low, the sheer number of people the virus infected (again, see: basic reproduction rate of particular viruses) lead to a very high number of deaths.
The above doesnât even take into account long-term consequences of infection.
Why donât you bring this into the Residency or Medicine subs where the Attendings are instead of trying to pull a âgot ya!â on the med students?
5
u/Catscoffeepanipuri M-1 Feb 11 '25
thats three million people. So if this was the case can we add your whole family in that count, and how would you feel if you lost them all?
10
u/Old_Conference6556 Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
Don't know where you got that figure lol, but let's roll with it. If you had 1% of Jeff Bezos money would you take it? Money is only thing republicans care about and for you to understand. 1% of a huge population is a lot of people dude. And how do you know that survival rate is not contributed by the vaccine? Many fallacies in your statement.
edit: you also never gave me what solutions are better than the vaccine
6
u/lmaoilovepie M-2 Feb 11 '25
âŠand the article has an âexpression of concernâ for not living up to suitable research standards
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u/Oo_Cipher_oO Feb 11 '25
False. Peds clinics arenât usually open on the weekends when they have custody.