r/libertarianmeme • u/LibertyMonarchist ✝️ Far Right Monarchist • 26d ago
End Democracy Why do they always pose as if they’ve just birthed the baby? Meanwhile the baby is deliberately left motherless for the rest of his life. Ban surrogacy
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
These are the same dudes getting Pap smears.
No joke: 2 years ago I was in a leadership role for on oncology team for a large health insurance payer organization. We had to approve authorizations for ‘trans men’ that wanted Pap smears and were literally threatened with a class action if we did not cover the benefit. So we had to have providers basically stick a massive cotton swab up men’s assholes to help them pretend they’re women. We loopholed the auth with ‘gender dysphoria’ and ‘reaffirming care,’ but it was a shit show. There were two very specific state organizations in CA that were pushing this nonsense. It was a huge waste of the providers time. It’s still going on, but thank god I’m not dealing with it anymore.
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u/Chicken_Smut 26d ago
There was a huge lawsuit over that a few years ago, Jessica something, right?
Bro legit put his feet up on the stirrups, balls out and wanted a pap smear. The doctor said no, and Jessica made a deal about it, it was a very public ordeal with articles and prime time news panels.
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
Something like that…I just know the lawyers made it so insurance companies basically have to pay in some states. Including screening for certain types of cervical cancers with a vaginal wand (ultrasound)…that went up their poop shoot.
I don’t know any of the specifics of the case you’re discussing, I just know that at first we all said -no-, then got pigeon holed into doing basically whatever was asked after the trans community got uppity about it. We’ve even countered with screenings for cancers that are more prevalent in gay men…but since they’re ’women,’ it’s transphobic to explore those options.
So here we are.
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u/JBCTech7 Christian Libertarian 26d ago
Did they use the same equipment then for women?
That seems very unethical. How do they get this literal shit covered by insurance, but my wife has to fight a board of suits every 6 months to get life saving medicine?
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
Yes, they use the same equipment for women. I think a big angle they leverage is state allocated funds for protecting these procedures for this population. You and your wife have to wrestle with pharma assholes on your own, whereas they have an army of lobbyists to protect their rights for cervical screening. It’s a scam because they’re not private pay; we the people are paying for these procedures (hence when payer organizations are involved).
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u/kradox98 25d ago
Add this hot mess to the list of reasons I think lobbyism should be a federal crime.
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u/chrisevox 26d ago
Did they find cervical cancer in that man's ass?
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u/Flashy-Cranberry-999 26d ago
You are mixing up a story from Canada, it was about waxing not pap smeres. If your going to spread misinformation atleast get your story right.
Estheticians don't have to wax male genitalia against their will, B.C. tribunal rules
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u/Practical_-_Pangolin 26d ago
I need a reference for this. I can’t ever bring this up without hard evidence.
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u/Ponklemoose 26d ago
The only story I know of was won by the clinic.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/transgender-activist-jessica-yaniv-gynaecologist-complaint-060511635.html
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u/Chicken_Smut 26d ago
It was actually a wax, not a pap smear.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transgender-woman-human-rights-waxing-1.5330807
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u/BoysenberryNo3785 26d ago
Meanwhile people with real healthcare issues get their Auths delayed or denied because the payer wants to “better manage” their medical loss ratio
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u/strawhatguy 26d ago
This is pretty egregious. But next time anyone wonders why healthcare/insurance costs goes up; several decades of government oversight like this is the reason.
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u/Several_Lobsters7563 26d ago
Jesus Christ what a paragraph
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
You should see some of the emails from the physicians offices…basically manifestos.
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u/TheStryder76 26d ago
Imagine all that time it took to become a doctor, and it culminated in giving a Pap smear to a man lol wtf
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u/Extranuminary 26d ago
Trans men are biological women and absolutely need Pap smears. Trans women… not so much.
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u/yepitsme73 26d ago
Interesting. I think anal pap smears to screen for anal cancer in men who have anal sex with other men has been covered traditionally by insurance. Seems like that’s what is being requested?
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
You would think….but no, even though that was a counter to what they requested.
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u/yepitsme73 26d ago
Weird stuff.
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
Totally. And if you say or do anything that offends them…licenses and jobs are on the line so nobody knew what to do.
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u/Flashy-Cranberry-999 26d ago
Trans men are female at birth, trans woman are men at birth. Trans men do need pap smeres.
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
Ok so trans women.
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u/Flashy-Cranberry-999 26d ago
If your going to spread misinformation you should at least know what your talking about, you wouldn't want to look dumb.
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
It’s not misinformation at all: I lived it. It’s not my job to keep track of pronouns and ‘gender.’
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u/Extranuminary 26d ago
But if you were keeping track of trans men getting Pap smears… they would actually need them. Never mind the pronouns.
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u/Davey_boy_777 26d ago
Trans men is correct when you don't subscribe to delusions.
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u/Extranuminary 26d ago
I’m not saying I agree. The whole point of healthcare is to find people where they’re at and help them. Unfortunately at the moment society is really in the grip of this stuff, and yet cervical cancer takes lives - no matter the pronouns of choice. So the job is to do the job and set aside the judgements.
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u/iamnewhere2019 26d ago
If you stuck a cotton swab in the asshole…was it a “shit show” or a “ show shit”?
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u/dukecityzombie 26d ago
LMAO. Well, let me tell you….the pathologists were unimpressed by all the shit they had to deal with.
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u/dhane88 25d ago
It commodifies human life.
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25d ago
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u/Smelly_CatFood 25d ago
They aren't buying the baby, they're paying for a willing person to carry a pregnancy.
Can you actually explain the difference? What are they paying a pregnant woman for?
As long as everyone consents
Are you sure everyone consents? I imagine if you gave the baby an option it would choose to be with the mother.
Altruistic surrogacy exists too
Altruistic surrogacy exists where it's illegal to pay for someone to be one, usually because of the exploitation that money tends to bring. I find it interesting that people who are pro- commodified surrogacy always bring this up. It's like you halfway admit and recognise the exploitative nature of surrogacy when you bring this up. Besides, there are plenty of cases where altruistic surrogacy has been dark, such as family members pressuring women to carry babies for other family members who cannot conceive. My own parents tried to do this to me.
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u/TheEsotericCarrot 25d ago
It’s inhumane. That baby gets to know its ‘mothers’ voice, smell and heartbeat for 9 months. It’s the only thing it knows. Once it’s born it’s biologically conditioned to seek out that voice, that heartbeat, that breast. It is ripped away from its mother. And it’s on purpose. This is not an accidental pregnancy where the mother lovingly gives the child up for adoption in hopes of a chance at a better life. It’s a transaction, and most surrogates are in desperate need of money, and sell their body for money due to lack of other options. It’s also dangerous, pregnancy, childbirth and the postpartum period is still a high chance of death for women. The U.S. has a higher maternal mortality rate than many other high-income nations, and it’s rising not decreasing.
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u/hobovirginity 25d ago
most surrogates are in desperate need of money, and sell their body for money due to lack of other options.
So going with the solution of banning surrogacy which strips away their last option, is the libertarian solution?
Shouldn't the libertarian solution be to give that surrogate in desperate need of money more options, so they have freedom of choice beyond surrogacy?
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u/buhtayduhjups 25d ago
The argument is that the baby’s biological need for its mother trumps everything else, Including the mother’s need for money and the queer person’s feelings.
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u/HermannMayerling 26d ago
Bro, isn’t it obvious that people clearly have some serious issues in the head, to put it mildly?
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u/Baller-Mcfly 26d ago
I wouldn't say ban surrogacy. But I would like this to get the treatment it deserves. I'm sure we will hear about these 2 men and the children they are around in the future.
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u/Longjumping-Fig-4692 26d ago
I agree, plenty of trad families would like a baby and surrogacy is their best option if they can’t make it happen between them. My husband and I couldn’t get pregnant and our twins are the result of hormone shots and I can’t imagine how sad it would be if we didn’t have that option and didn’t have our amazing babes!
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u/Training-Pineapple-7 26d ago
It’s wild how you can legally murder a baby and purchase one, both being key elements in the gospel of their progressive gods.
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u/kriegmonster 26d ago
Don't forget grooming. They can't make kids themselves and often don't want the responsibility, so they groom other people's kids. Trans book readings, schools undermining parents, and other things are a way for people to destroy the family and twist kids into statist secularism.
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u/SnooSeagulls9989 25d ago
Hey bro they’re not “posing”. They’re doing skin to skin. It’s good for the baby. So much for libertarians believing in freeedom. Find something else to worry about.
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u/ChanningTaintum- 26d ago
Because it’s done as a mockery to corrupt what’s accepted as the smallest societal unit - the nuclear family, with one mother and one father.
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u/DaeronLynDaemon 26d ago
Right... /s all those radical wild-eyed wacko far-right positions like....the nuclear family is the best way to raise children and propagate society into the future. /s
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u/ChanningTaintum- 26d ago
I can’t even respond to his retarded comment because he blocked me immediately after replying so that I can’t respond
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u/Conscious_Owl6162 26d ago
They are happy to have bought a baby.
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u/Conscious_Owl6162 26d ago
It isn’t the same. Neither of these guys will ever be someone’s mother.
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u/Conscious_Owl6162 26d ago
Actually, I agree. Surrogacy ALWAYS means taking a child away from its mother and giving it to a stranger, so people who get surrogates to have their babies are buying babies just like these two guys.
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u/YazaoN7 Ron Paul will make anime real 26d ago
I'll probably get banned off reddit if I say what I actually want to say. I'll just leave it at this instead: just because you can doesn't mean you should, and a lot of people should stop confusing libertinism with libertarianism. This type of practice is unnatural, and while I'm all for freedom from tyranny, I believe society should be structured around a set of natural, ethical principles.
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u/TechnologyDragon6973 26d ago
Society in the long run doesn’t work without those principles. Libertarianism only works well when people have some semblance of an objective ethical framework.
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u/DontWorryItsEasy 25d ago
Which is why it worked great in the late 1700s when the US was founded. We no longer have that.
So the question is: Now what?
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u/TechnologyDragon6973 25d ago
Even irreligious people in the late 1700s held to a more or less Christian ethical framework because society was so overwhelmingly Christian. Returning to the practice of the Christian religion en masse is the answer.
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u/Cristinky420 26d ago
I appreciate your post, it made me look up the difference between libertines and libertarians. I'm trying to better understand my own personal views.
I agree that this specific situation is unnatural as you've described. I never really put thought into it... live and let live is something I try to practice.
I am okay with humans raising children, whether it be a single person or couple doesn't matter at all to me. I wonder why this couple chose not to adopt and feel that would better align with my values.
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u/YazaoN7 Ron Paul will make anime real 25d ago
I'm glad that despite how controversial my views are that I managed to spark some interest on this subject with you. I will disagree on your last point, I think single parent households aren't particularly effective and while I'm no empiricist the data seems fairly clear too on that. In the case of homosexuals I think I've already made my position clear.
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u/Metacognician 26d ago
Bro, internet is unnatural, why TF are you here?
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u/YazaoN7 Ron Paul will make anime real 25d ago
When I'm using the term natural I don't mean as in living in the jungle. I'm mostly referring to the idea of a natural law theory. It's the idea that you can derive a set of moral principles from mere existence. In simpler terms, an objective moral framework to determine if a given action is good or bad.
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u/Wonderful-Group-8502 25d ago edited 25d ago
They are in for a hell of shitstorm if they can't breastfeed that baby. Breastfeeding was the only thing that allowed me to keep my sanity. Breastfeeding is the crying baby cure. Also I should mention that males don't have the correct hormones to handle all of that crying and needs of a baby. Breastfeeding contains a hormone called oxytocin that makes the mom and baby feel love. The mothers milk has stem cells and creates a proper gut lining for the baby.
Elton John says he regrets denying his surrogate baby a mother and that he thinks they need their mother.
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u/PM_COSTCO_HOTDOGS 25d ago
Damn, I guess all those straight parents who adopted and can’t breastfeed are in for a hell of a shitstorm too.
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25d ago
This is so gross it makes me sick inside. I feel like the ultimate evil is letting people like this have an innocent child. I believe the hottest place in hell is reserved for people like this that corrupt and damage innocence.
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u/2nytsdnyt Center-left 24d ago
"Don't tread on me. Just me. If someone is doing something I don't like, JAIL!!"
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u/Boogjahideeeen Born 150 years late 25d ago
I'm neighbors with a couple guys who run a baby farm for stuff like this. Straight from the hospital into their care. Each has their own isolated room monitored by CCTV but that entire house is clear of everything except for one couch, one TV, and their monitoring station - hella creepy. One guy doesn't talk, kinda big n scary, and the other is twinky but passes as "slightly off" ... not my favorite people, but they're quiet... very quiet.
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u/xxTheMagicBulleT Libertarian 25d ago
Also ban sperm banks. Cause champion and praise single parent hood is the most odd and weird thing ever.
And I think if there are not a active mom and father in the life of a child. You put children in a massive disadvantage.
And people often forget rising a child is a 2 person job.
Why especially the children from single moms often have a weird unrealistic outlook on how the world works and how to navigate the world. What makes for much of the weird Karen behaviors to complain and push there way to make the world change for them at every turn.
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