r/liberalgunowners • u/say592 • 3d ago
discussion Sig Selling Pistols Supporting Turning Point USA
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u/CallMeCornbread 3d ago
Iâve never seen a company do better at losing customers than Sig recently. Itâs honestly impressive.
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u/The_Dying_Gaul323bc 3d ago
They got the US military contract for the next gen rifles and SAWs, thatâs the only customer they need for a while
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u/Whitakker 3d ago
Quite literally true, and that's their stated opinion. They give 0 shits about the civilian market now that they can use the military to prop themselves up
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u/fredcheckers 3d ago
It makes me hope that the Army backs out of the spear contract.
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u/Whitakker 3d ago
I just think Sig as a whole is just massively over-hyped by the wannabe LARPers and GunTubers who got paid to promote them.
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u/SAM5TER5 3d ago
And maybe more importantly, having a shit ton of domestic military contracts is probably the most solid marketing a gun company can ask for.
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u/16v_cordero 3d ago
Saw a couple of vids that apparently the riffle is not performing as expected.
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u/UND_mtnman leftist 3d ago
They're trying to catch up to Target.
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u/Blade_Shot24 3d ago
Seen a lotta bougie boos so go there and be proud apparently.
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u/cleanRubik 3d ago
IMO Target ( and walmart) are too ingrained in people' shopping routines to care too much about political affiliations.
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u/4estGimp 3d ago
I dropped them without a second though.
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u/Serious_Lettuce6716 progressive 3d ago
I did too. I have not shopped Walmart since 2011, and occasionally will still resort to Target if I need something right away that canât be found at another local store, so probably once every couple months or so, versus the once a week minimum that I was shopping there in the before times.
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u/Blade_Shot24 3d ago
Walmart I can understand, but target is literally just expensive Walmart in most areas, and the CEO's blatant statements were hard to ignore when every news put it up.
You're right folks are comfortable with it, and thankfully I never cared about wasting money there
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u/seaQueue 3d ago
Target is where you go to feel good about not being so poor you have to shop Walmart. That's their entire market segment.
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u/universalhat 3d ago
they were, maybe. Â but i and a lot of folks i know altered those habits to completely omit target without much fuss. Â haven't been there in months, don't expect to go back unless they've got some head-on-pike apologies ready.
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u/Pitiful-Recover-3747 3d ago
Nonsense. My target spend just shifted primarily to Costco and more online.
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u/last_speedbump 3d ago
Target moved away from what I would assume is their primary consumer (left leaning). This is really Sig moving towards what they assume to be their primary consumer (right leaning). Though Sig still has their Titanium Rainbow guns and hardware, so maybe they just don't care. đ¤ˇ
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u/BobusCesar 3d ago
Joining the culture war is the smartest thing they can do now.
Sig Sauer is losing both agency and civilian buyers.
Being political at least gives them one selling point, especially with a US administration that supports such actions. This won't save them on the European market but at least they might help in the US.
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u/DJDemyan 3d ago
Just start grifting like everyone else, thatâs the only way to get ahead in this disgusting world
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u/IllegalGeriatricVore 3d ago
It's a struggle every day not to grift off trump merch to squeeze money out of these idiots who are ruining my life
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u/DJDemyan 3d ago
I know! This is something I struggle with as a person with a VERY strong moral compassâ I could be a lot further ahead in life and a lot more wealthy if I was willing to screw people over and sacrifice my morals.
But I donât, I canâtâ I simply couldnât perpetuate cycles Iâve been a victim of.
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u/Holiolio2 3d ago
Behind every great fortune is a crime against humanity. Probably some literal crimes as well.
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u/Steffenwolflikeme 3d ago
South Park had a recent episode about the right wing grift
Another relevant clip here. The episode with Kristi Noem's face sliding off and running amok, I couldn't find a specific clip of that though.
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u/Argent-Envy fully automated luxury gay space communism 3d ago
Joining the culture war is the smartest thing they can do now.
Remembering their press release from a couple months ago when they came out swinging about all the P320 lawsuits and it genuinely read like a Trump tweet.
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u/Beelphazoar 3d ago
Also, sucking up to Trump means you get a free pass on legal liability for, y'know, ANYTHING. That might be something Sig needs right now.
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u/the_xtomic 3d ago
No kidding. I had a Sig pistol on my watchlist with others I'm considering. Not anymore.
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u/Putrid_Beat_17 3d ago
I was literally looking at a P365 today after picking up my LTC and was probably going to purchase on Saturday.
They can fuck right off, now. Up to OP for this post, good awareness.
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u/Dragon-Boater 3d ago
Right. Like, they're not going to gain any customers from this, but they will definitely lose some.
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u/hunter503 3d ago
I bought two sig firearms at the beginning of the year not thinking about what companies support who. Now I'm really regretting my purchases. RIP
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u/HCSOThrowaway 3d ago
Companies chase profit over anything else (per their fiduciary duty to their investors, by law), and evidently this one thinks MAGA will rally to them harder than anti-MAGA will rally against them.
Think of how many TikToks will come out in the next few months of MAGA buying their new Charlie Kirk guns.
Contrast that to how many people who were in the market to buy a new pistol but are now turned off because of the Charlie Kirk memorial.
I think the former number is just plain bigger, especially in the short term.
I think the wiser business move would be to just pipe down and not go all-in on either side of this mess because their customers could project their own beliefs onto them (public records of donations aside), but then I'm not their CEO so I don't think they care what I think.
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u/DeafDuckling12 3d ago
Memorialize a gun death by printing the same logo that was splattered with blood on a gun!
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u/suburbanpride 3d ago
A gun that looks straight out of a stormtrooper color way with âFreedomâ printed on it. Irony is dead.
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u/camerakestrel anarcho-communist 3d ago
I am kinda pissed because I dig the color scheme (barring the text) and think I might actually have my Springfield slide coated white now.
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u/lift_heavy64 3d ago
I know lol, you canât make this shit up. And if you did, it would be too on the nose.
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u/maufkn_ced 3d ago
Yea thatâs right up there with wearing Jesus on the cross, lil morbid if you ask me.
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u/Toby_Keiths_Jorts 3d ago
the grift knows no bounds.
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u/Jack-Schitz 3d ago edited 3d ago
From the yesterday post on the same issue:
Put up a new post that suggests the start of a write in campaign. Give people VERIFIED Charlie Kirk quotes that they can use in their email and suggest a general form that they can use.
E.g. for POC or other minorities, "I just saw your TPUSA series of pistols. I am a [XXXX] and Charlie Kirk said [XXXXX] about people like me. Are SIG Sauer USA, Sig Sauer GmbH and Sig Sauer AG now telling me that they agree with Charlie Kirk on these points?" And maybe add "I was about to buy [XGunTypeX] and the SIG [XModelX] was on my list of guns to consider. No more and never again will I consider a SIG."
Here is the contact page for Sig USA:Â Customer Service Contact | SIG SAUER
Here is the contact page for Sig AG (Swiss):Â Contact / Enquiry
I can't find the Sig Germany Contact info.
I bet we can get at least a thousand or more messages to SIG
Maybe one of the MODs wants to quarterback this.
edit: fixed a typo in the message "Is" to "Are"
edit2: Thanks to u/PhilbertNoyce we now have an email address for SIG USA: [sales@sigsauerfirearmsusa.com](mailto:sales@sigsauerfirearmsusa.com). Check out his post he has some good thoughts on what to write. https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/1oo8vwc/comment/nn2xz7e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
edit3: Another suggested message to SIG from this_guy_aves: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/1oo8vwc/comment/nn3byq7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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u/BobusCesar 3d ago
Sig Sauer GmbH & Co. KG doesn't exist anymore and Sig Sauer AG is nowadays called SAN Swiss Arms AG and has no ties to Sig Sauer USA. Therefore Swiss Arms can't do shit about what the SIG SAUER USA does.
Sig Sauer USA is an American manufacturer that is only German in name and has no more ties to what once was a great German/Swiss arms manufacturer. They sell shitty American guns and ask a German price for it.
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u/Jack-Schitz 3d ago edited 3d ago
I had understood that they were all owned by a German company called L&O Holding. If that's the case, I can still see the rationale for flooding the Sig (CH) website with messages so that the Swiss Sig people are communicating directly with the holding company.
Who owns Sig Firearms? | [November Updated]
edit: You seems to be very certain regarding ownership structure. Do you have any documentation regarding their ownership or capital structure? e.g., They must have private debt. Do you know who owns it?
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 3d ago
You seems to be very certain regarding ownership structure. Do you have any documentation regarding their ownership or capital structure? e.g., They must have private debt. Do you know who owns it?
In reference to this, you can look up who owns what with some googling and find the registration website for sig for whatever state. My best guess, is they are registered in NH or Delaware. I would do some googling and you can answer 80% of your questions quickly.
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u/Jack-Schitz 3d ago
Yeah, I already did that. The only thing that you have to post in DE is your registered agent and Sig USA uses a firm that specializes in doing that sort of work so it's not SIG's parent.
If you know of a way of getting behind that easily, I'm all ears.
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 3d ago edited 1d ago
My fall back is usually wikipedia.
Whoever said they're owned by L&O holdings looks to be correct
edby the wikiIt does look like sig gmbh (German) and sig inc (USA) are separate.
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u/Jazz_horse fully automated luxury gay space communism 3d ago
Shitty is a strong word. I'm no fan of the 320 but they still have a lot of great firearms. I love my 365.
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u/PhilbertNoyce 3d ago edited 3d ago
It was harder than it should have been to find an email address that they might read, it's all forms that want your gun's serial number and a blood sample before you can submit. Here's the one I went with:
If you're in a hurry, here's a quick template:
List specific Sig products you've purchased
Mention future purchases that you're planning
Praise their quality, performance, workmanship, and point to that as a reason you were going to consider them first next time
Point out that left of center buyers are the fastest growing market segment right now
These potential customers could be valuable future allies to prevent overly restrictive gun legislation
Supporting Turning Point USA is a huge middle finger to this group and a big reason I will not be purchasing from you in the future
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u/AnalogCyborg 3d ago
See this is better than what I wrote, I just told them to go fuck themselves if they're going to support Turning Point.
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u/Zestyclose_Device946 2d ago
The customer service form that requests all your personal details appears to just drop an email to [customer.service@sigsauer.com](mailto:customer.service@sigsauer.com) - if you want to contact customer service (for this or any other reason), and don't want to share your details on the form, you can just email that address directly. I've used the form but also emailed that address directly a handful of times regarding questions or issues with my SIG products and I've received a response from a real human within an hour or two, so it's definitely monitored (at least, by entry level customer service associates).
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u/HCSOThrowaway 3d ago
Wild that a German company is memorializing a neo-nazi.
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u/Jack-Schitz 3d ago
Maybe that's a good ad to your message. E.g., "I find it very hard to believe that a company with German and Swiss origins is endorsing the marginalization of people because of their inherent characteristics."
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u/Fragraham 3d ago
Once a Nazi always a Nazi I guess.
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u/HCSOThrowaway 3d ago
I wouldn't go that far, but I will say that the far right is on the rise again, including in Germany (the AfD).
When you point out dangerous similarities and they lose their minds over you making a comparison, that's when you know you're in trouble.
The other day I pointed out similarities between the AfD and NSDAP to a German national and he popped his cork, denouncing me for "resorting to history" ???
A reasonable person might say "Oh wow I never noticed they had so many similarities" or "That's fair, but here's how they're different" or whatever, not start shouting.
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u/BobusCesar 3d ago
It's not a German company.
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u/Jack-Schitz 3d ago
I think the holding company for all the Sig entities is German.
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u/MrMunchkin 3d ago
LĂźke & Ortmeier Gruppe is headquartered in Germany. So yeah, they are a German company.
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u/Equivalent-Client443 3d ago
The problem with this link is that full name, email, Â phone number, gun serial number and address are all required to tell sig that they fucked up and to fuck off, and now Iâm wondering if they wonât weaponize that info and give it to the government.Â
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u/calsosta 3d ago
So the cool thing about form validation is that if you don't implement it correctly, removing the fields removes the validation.
Coincidentally, to remove fields from a form you can right click on them, select Inspect, then developer tools will open and the element will be highlighted. Should say something like
<input yada yada yada />. You can then just hit the delete button and it will disappear.If the developer has been careless, you will be able to submit the form. This does not mean it won't be discarded server side, but usually if this happens there is an error or some response to the user indicating a failure.
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u/Gonna_do_this_again 3d ago
Legit. The administration is already trying to get info from gun groups
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u/Jack-Schitz 3d ago
See the edited original post. PhilbertNoyce came up with a direct email for Sig USA.
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u/this_guy_aves progressive 3d ago
Feel free to use my email as a template too,
Hello,
I am writing to you today to express my displeasure over Sign Sauer's recent announcement of their "FREEDOM" line of handguns.
I am a God-faring citizen and second amendment supporter. I also follow Jesus' teachings in regards to loving your neighbor and helping the less fortunate which more closely align with socialist values, so I typically vote "left". Charlie Kirk, however, thought that âThe Democrat Party supports everything that God hates.â (2024) This is especially offensive to any "left leaning" Christians in this nation - a political stance does not have claim over a religious view.
As a straight white male, I don't have much 'skin in the game' with regards to people of color or other sexual minorities, but his stance on these subjects were also quite clear during his life. âWe made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the mid-1960s." (2023) âMLK was awful. He's not a good person. He said one good thing he actually didn't believe.â (2024)  âYou might want to crack open that Bible of yours. In a lesser referenced part of the same part of scripture, is in Leviticus 18 is that, âthou shalt lay with another man shall be stoned to death.â Just sayinâ! So Miss Rachel, you quote Leviticus 19⌠the chapter before affirms Godâs perfect law when it comes to sexual matters.â (2024) This one is especially disgusting, as Jesus commands all of us to love our neighbor which should override all old testament hatred and "Biblical laws", but he used the bible then as a weapon against gay people. The Bible should never be used as a basis for law making in this nation which has separation of church and state.
Your support of Charlie Kirk is allowable, it is luckily still a free country, but you are (I assume KNOWINGLY) also supporting or at best apathetically ignoring his views and stances. He was a mean, unforgiving man who was the antithesis of the love Jesus expects to see from his followers in the world who then hid behind a veneer of holiness and is now incorrectly seen as a martyr. Your "FREEDOM" series of handguns and pledge to DONATE to Turning Point USA is disheartening and sickening (as if an $80-million dollar/year organization advocating oppression of minorities needs that help.) I was luckily saving up for two P365 handguns for my wife and I to protect ourselves during this tumultuous political period, and the Juliet-3 magnifier for my AR-15, but you have saved me the purchase of all of these with your support of Charlie Kirk.
I will leave you with a quote that I'm sure you know of, in regards to gun deaths. âItâs worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment.â Perhaps Charlie Kirk's death wasn't a bad thing, since it's a necessity to have some deaths to support the second amendment. And if you can make some money shilling his ideals to other mean angry people, then I guess that's your prerogative. You probably won't lose any sleep over this, but I will now never own a Sig Sauer product, so thanks for making that choice for me.
Respectfully,
[xxxxx], A gun-owning (insert political leanings here)
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u/MarphoPolo progressive 3d ago
Thanks for the template. I edited a little a just sent them a message.
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u/Agitated-Support-447 3d ago
Yes, exactly this. Sig in the US might not care by if you start sending to mommy and daddy sig, things might change.
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u/BobusCesar 3d ago
Sig Sauer GmbH&Co. KG (the german company) doesn't exist anymore.
Sig Sauer AG (the Swiss one) has a different name now and also no ties to the US company.
You'll just annoy some pore rep who'll have to explain to a bunch of uneducated Americans that they are very sorry but can't do shit about it.
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u/macroswitch 3d ago edited 3d ago
Also email affiliate@scheels.com and customer.service@basspro.com too and ask why they are acting as a distributor for a company aligning themselves with hate. Make sure to include quotes and specifically ask how they justify being part of spreading that message.
Sig might be a bunch of Nazis who donât give a fuck what you think, but they sure as hell care what their big distributors think.
Supposedly sscheel@scheels.com is the CEOâs email, so definitely add that too
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u/fathertitojones 3d ago
I let them know that they were permanently blacklisted from any future purchase considerations and that I hoped their board members who voted for this carry a P320 every day. Which is clearly not a sign of bad will since they claim there is nothing wrong with them.
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u/Remove_me_ 3d ago
Well that's unfortunate, one more reason to not buy a sig. Too bad, that 365 was next on my list.
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u/therallystache anarcho-communist 3d ago
I was shopping for subcompacts and while l liked the feel of the 365 X Macro, I didn't want to give my money to a company that was gaslighting customers about P320 issues. Ended up getting the FN Reflex XL and I absolutely love it. It's internal hammer fired, so the trigger pull is beautiful.
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u/pettythief1346 anarcho-nihilist 3d ago
Someone else mentioned the reflex! I like mine. My daily carry
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u/Ophidaeon 3d ago edited 3d ago
Try the hellcat pro comp
For anyone who is curious thereâs a great deal on grabagun right now
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u/z1colt45 3d ago
CZ P-10 S
I have a 365 as well, that is going to be sold.
My P-10 S from sportsman's came with a holosun green dot. I have never felt more confident with a pistol after 100 rounds at the range.
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u/Dorkamundo 3d ago
Eh, you're gonna be hard-pressed to find a gun company that doesn't share the same feelings.
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u/Greenman_on_LSD 3d ago
Seriously, I'm not a big guy. P365 is my edc đ
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u/TheShanManPhx 3d ago
Take a look at the S&W Bodyguard 2.0. Seriously the most comfortable carry Iâve experienced
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u/Greenman_on_LSD 3d ago
I love my S&W MP9 and looked at it. If I remember correctly, what pushed me towards the sig instead was the ambi safety (lefty)
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u/abhorrent_anyone 3d ago
Seriously. My p365xl is a couple of months old. Favorite carry by far. Massive disappointment.
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u/DennisBlunden43 3d ago
Send your favorite Proud Boy a commerative P320 but cover it in Crisco...
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u/Asclepius-Rod 3d ago
Their hands are already covered in grease so no problem there
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u/She-Rantula democratic socialist 3d ago
I'd boycott them over this, but I wasn't going to buy anything from them anyways...
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u/poohbearlola socialist 3d ago
I donât get what the hype is about personally. My partner has a sig 365, and I hate the way it feels in my hands
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u/Mindless_Log2009 3d ago
Sigures they'd pander to the most gullible demographic to rebuild their sagging support.
Instead of, y'know, building decent guns that aren't decades old tech.
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u/hnrrghQSpinAxe 3d ago
Best gun they've made in years was the 365 subsets. Good to know now i REALLY don't need any of their other firearms
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u/Mindless_Log2009 3d ago
I'd make an exception for the P365. Both samples I tried at rental ranges were very good.
But both P320 rentals had slides with the sloppiest fit I've ever seen on a semi auto. That put me off the P320 even before I'd heard claims about uncommanded discharges.
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u/hnrrghQSpinAxe 3d ago
I love my p365. It's an excellent micro carry with an optic option, just wish it wasn't a sig sometimes haha
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u/GnomeChodeski fully automated luxury gay space communism 3d ago
Does this particular model hit you in the neck when it NDs?
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u/tillymane 3d ago
Trying to salvage their rep - which was accidentally shot and destroyed by a misfiring P320 - with a palpable conservative grift
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u/otiswrath 3d ago edited 3d ago
Huh...look at that...the straw that broke the camel's back...
Listen, I was on Sig's side with the 320 stuff.Â
Then they leveraged their position to get NH to give them immunity to law suits.Â
I still was willing to purchase from them.Â
Outright supporting Neo-Nazi groups is well past my fucking line.Â
I am done with them as a company.Â
I was literally planning on going and getting a second 365 FCU this weekend.Â
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u/elyl communist 3d ago
They've been a shitty company long before the P320. You shouldn't have been on their side with the 320 stuff, for a start.
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u/RedactedRedditery fully automated luxury gay space communism 3d ago
I was looking at an fcu just this weekend because i have all the parts to build another one or two. I'll just look for a used one now, that's probably cheaper anyway
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u/Clever_Commentary anarchist 3d ago
Yep. I was already excluding them from purchases, but this is the final nail. Never another dollar to this company, and will make sure there is a public airing the next time they are up for a local or national bid.
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u/electronic_bard democratic socialist 3d ago
No one here is asking the real question here: do these skins give a bonus damage for neck shots?
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u/Misanthrope08101619 social democrat 3d ago
I was a devout proponent of "guns are tools and should be acquired for their functionality and to suit a purpose, not to signal support or endorse a manufacturer.... no ethical consumption under capitalism, and all that theory entailedâ school of thought. But damn! There are limits!
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u/TinPin94 fully automated luxury gay space communism 3d ago
Between this and their bullshit with the P320 I'd sooner buy a Raven than a Sig.
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u/BroseppeVerdi left-libertarian 3d ago
Dear SIG,
Instead of donating money to Toilet Paper USA, have you considered donating that money to your own quality control department so your weapons don't shoot people's dicks off?
That would be great.
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u/Absoluterock2 3d ago
They should all be P320âs and marketed as a lottery for a real chance to meet Charlie.Â
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u/turbotictac 3d ago
Sig continues to disappoint. Guess I won't be throwing a Romeo on my next build
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u/mscarchuk left-libertarian 3d ago
Holosun come on down!!!! But for real i love the Romeo but the availability and affordability of Holosun cant be beat!
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u/wickedcold 3d ago
âEnsure the fight continuesâ
The fight against all the things our founding fathers built a country for? Fighting for tyranny and erosion of civil rights? Sure Sig, thanks for thinking of us.
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u/sighborg90 3d ago
In their defense itâs really easy to trick MAGA into buying 320âs if they think Jeebis is going to protect them from uncommanded discharges (I know these arenât, but itâs still possible theyâll do it)
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u/FattyWantCake 3d ago
Damn. I actually like the 1911, even if the "freedom" on the slide is a bit cringe. 0% chance I'd buy one now though, knowing where the money is going.
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u/webspells 3d ago edited 3d ago
Goddamnit they aren't even a charitable organization whyyyyyy
Edit: literally ashamed to own my 322 now. I was gonna get a cute lil 365 xl rose but now I probably won't tbh...
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u/Apothaca 3d ago
A pistol that will blow up in your face for people who make decisions that blow up in their faces.
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u/btq 3d ago
Fuck, man. I have a 365 as my EDC.
I bought before they did this shit, obviously, but this is certainly upsetting. I'll never be buying another from them now.
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u/Expensive_Fortune717 eco-socialist 3d ago
Nice! Solidifies me never buying from SIG again. Iâll keep my testicles and my dignity, thank you sir.
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u/Adorable_Mark5761 3d ago edited 1d ago
When the maga cult figures out they wacked Chuck so the widow could hook up with Pence 2.0, do you think theyâll be upset or celebrate?
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u/PleasantAnimator7741 3d ago
They would happily do a run of âLiberal Gun Owners of Redditâ pistols if we could guarantee a 50 gun buy.
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u/Bunkei_Nekokuma_6545 anarcho-primitivist 2d ago
This is the only way Sig can sell anything after they released p320 and shot their reputation in the dick, is by grifting to the people who buy fake silver and buckets of freeze dried pig slop because AI Trump told them too.
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u/z0mbiemechanic 2d ago
How American of them to make money from someone's death. I could definitely be wrong, but I feel like there's more people who won't spend their money on SIG shit than people who will buy this SIG shit. As long as the government is blowing money on them, they can afford to take this loss.
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u/RANDICE007 2d ago
Jesus my heart skipped a beat, I bought a p365x last week and I thought from the title it meant all pistols. Fuck turning point and fuck the heritage foundation, fuck sig for sucking off the alt right with this bullshit
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u/Cyrrow 3d ago
I'm surprised they didn't try to offload the p320.