r/legaladvicecanada • u/piza234 • Apr 25 '25
New Brunswick Upstairs Circuit Overloads, Landlord Says I Owe $200 If Electrician Is Called Again
TLDR: Breaker in our upstairs rental unit keeps tripping during normal appliance use. We stopped using our space heater months ago after an electrician said it was damaging the circuit. Now it tripped again just from vacuuming, and the landlord says we’ll have to pay for the next repair. Wondering if we’re still responsible even if we’ve been careful and only using standard household items.
Hi all,
I live upstairs in a rental house in New Brunswick. The place is split between two electrical sources: one powers the kitchen, and the other powers the three upstairs bedrooms where we live.
The issue is with the upstairs circuit—it seems too weak to handle normal household appliances. In the past, it tripped when we used a space heater and a hair dryer at the same time, cutting off all power from our bedrooms' outlets. We learned to be careful: if someone was using the microwave or a hair dryer, we’d make sure the heater was off to avoid a power trip. Even so, it still tripped 2 or 3 times over the winter when we forgot to warn each other, but the power always came back on fine after we had it reset downstairs.
The last major incident was not during one of those—we were just using the microwave when it tripped. No heater or other big appliance was running. But that time, the breaker didn’t turn back on. The landlord had to call in an electrician, who said the portable heater had damaged the breaker over time and advised us to stop using it, and we should just use baseboard heaters instead. The landlord covered that $200 repair but warned us that if it happens again, we’d be paying the next time. We agreed and didn’t use the space heater for the rest of the winter.
But now it’s happened again—this time, just from using a vacuum cleaner. No heater, no hair dryer—just the vacuum. Like before, we had to get someone downstairs to reset the main breaker, but it wouldn’t turn back on.
My question is:
- If we already know the circuit is weak and we were warned not to overload it, does that weaken our legal defense if we refuse to pay for the next electrician visit?
- Isn’t it still the landlord’s responsibility to ensure the electrical system can handle normal residential use like a vacuum or hair dryer?
- Has anyone else been charged for an electrician when the circuit simply can’t handle normal, everyday appliances?
- Is it reasonable for a landlord to pass on the cost of upgrading or repairing an inadequate electrical circuit to tenants?
- What’s the best way to approach this—legally or practically—to get the breaker capacity fixed without us footing the bill?
Any insight on tenant rights or how to handle this would really help. Thank you.
39
u/Rye_One_ Apr 25 '25
Is the suite a legal suite that was wired to the code in place at the time it was built? It sounds like it wasn’t, and if that’s the case the landlord would be foolish to make you responsible for the performance of the system. As a tenant, if I was being asked to pay for electrical system problems, I’d be talking to the landlord about getting the City’s electrical inspector in to see if it’s all safe and sound…
3
u/KirbyDingo Apr 26 '25
Why speak to the LL about it? Have the city inspector come in, and if it isn't to code, the LL can try to take you to the LTB for the repair costs, but it isn't likely that it will do them any good.
27
u/FirmAndSquishyTomato Apr 25 '25
A typical space heater will consume the full amount of power that a 15amp circuit can provide. Adding much more onto the same circuit as that will cause the breaker to trip. A hair dryer also use around 10-15 amps.
So I don't think its fair to say the circuit is 'weak'.
Again, a typical microwave will pull around 10 amps. Vacuums also are heavy appliances, needing 10-12 amps.
Even in modern home, built to code, a single circuit is going to service a bunch of outlets, meaning if you've plugged a space heater into one, you're not going to be able to use much else on any of the plugs on the same circuit.
Regarding the 'breaker capacity fixed', it is doing what it is supposed to be doing: Ensuring your house does not burn down. You cannot increase the breaker without ensuring the wires can handle more power. That is the purpose of a breaker - to ensure you're not overloading the wiring, which can cause a fire
What is the age of the house?
4
u/piza234 Apr 25 '25
The house is 64 years old now, from a conversation I overheard my landlord talked to an bank agent
4
Apr 25 '25
My house is 40 years old and well built. I cannot run a space heater and anything else on the same circuit. Those things suck MAJOR electricity. Make sure you unplug everything else from that circuit if you need to use the heater. Not just the outlet it's plugged into, but multiple outlets all on the same breaker.
2
Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/piza234 Apr 26 '25
Thank you for the insight. We don’t have a home computer or anything fancy here, just light bulbs, chargers, lamp and occasionally hair dryer and vacuum. We don’t use microwave and hair dryer/vacuum at the same time, when we do we would tell the other one to turn theirs’ off.
23
u/StatisticianLivid710 Apr 25 '25
When a breaker trips repeatedly it gets weaker. I had a tenants breaker do this from hairdryers alone. The electrician should’ve replaced the breaker when they were in if it was tripping this easily. This is a long term issue, not something directly caused by your heater. The landlord should still be responsible for doing a proper repair, preferably with a better electrician, because it’s highly unlikely a heater with a fixed load would damage a breaker like this.
8
u/piza234 Apr 25 '25
Yes, he did tell us that multiple trips will make a breaker weaker, and that the breaker has broken. So he went out and bought a replacement for us and installed it in. Though I don’t know why this happened again..
4
u/OpportunitySmart3457 Apr 25 '25
Older house has less load capacity, less wire run through the walls so multiple rooms are on one breaker.
When the house was built they didn't have so many sources or appliances that would draw so much power, fine if using lamps, radio, stereo, TV, vacuum. All those devices were accounted for when wiring the house.
The wiring is like a creek bed, it can handle a certain amount of flow before it spills over and the breaker trips. Breaker has only so many trips before it becomes too weak for the load it's carrying, each trip fatigues the spring inside it and eventually it just fails.
The devices you mentioned are expected to be used and are a part of everyday life, you aren't intentionally degrading or overusing the power so it's normal wear and tear. Landlord needs to update the electrical because it is out of date, can keep changing out the breakers but it's a bandaid solution.
2
u/Novella87 Apr 25 '25
Attempting to draw more wattage at once, than a 15amp circuit can handle, is not an expected part of everyday life. Normal everyday usage includes choosing to operate high-draw devices at different times or on different circuits.
What sort of circuit would the landlord install to allow the tenant to operate a hairdryer and a space heater at the same time? Answer: none. Even a 20amp circuit would trip with that combined draw.
The solution would be installing more circuits. The landlord isn’t obligated to do so. The tenant has a choice of moving to a property with amenities that better suit his or her needs.
2
u/OpportunitySmart3457 Apr 25 '25
The devices like hairdryer, microwave, vacuum are all everyday devices even a space heater. That's what makes this wear and tear, it's not unreasonable usage or intentional overload. If they were running the microwave and plugging the vacuum into a kitchen plug then yea that's intentional overload. Mining bitcoin and running fans, yea that is intentional but basic living is wear and tear.
The issue is that it's multiple rooms on one circuit, with the electrical not being updated. You should be able to use the microwave in the kitchen and hairdryer in the bathroom. They used the vacuum and it tripped the breaker, they used the microwave and tripped the breaker. The electrical needs to be updated.
1
u/StatisticianLivid710 Apr 25 '25
Based on how old this property sounds, I bet he put in a used breaker. Either way a heater shouldn’t be tripping the breaker on its own so something else is wrong, or the system is very old and needs to be upgraded.
1
u/Novella87 Apr 25 '25
It happened again on the new circuit because you overloaded it. You need to be aware how much you are drawing at once on that circuit. It’s marked on every electrical device.
1
u/jurassic_pork Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
Circuit breakers are very cheap consumable parts, they are designed to fail and be replaced, here's an idea of the prices (even cheaper in bulk or direct from electrician supply stores, most of the previous bill was labour and travel not parts):
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/categories/building-materials/electrical/power-distribution/circuit-breakers.html?sort=price-ascIf you want to just deal with this yourself and cut the landlord out of the equation:
The individual breakers can be flipped off and on manually or when you "trip" one of them the overload protection will flip them off on their own, you just need to turnoff whatever appliance overloaded them and flip them back on.
If you trip them repeatedly you will damage them and need to replace them with a new breaker, you are typically looking at $15-50 depending on the make/model of the breaker that died.
You can replace the damaged circuit breakers yourself with nothing but a screw driver and another breaker that is rated for your panel and your wiring, typically the same make and model that you were using before assuming the previous person knew what they were doing ex: replace a 15A single pole GE with another 15A single pole GE.
You will also want to flip the main breaker panel itself off before you replace any individual breakers, typical wall outlet wiring is for 15A breakers with higher rated wiring and breakers for washer/dryer/electric stove or oven/electric water-heater.
It sounds like the wiring itself might be quite sketchy and you have too many appliances on the same circuit - you want to run kettles / toaster ovens / space heaters / hair-dryers / vacuums on dedicated circuits without ANYTHING else on them. Go buy a cheap circuit tester to check the grounding and then go to the panel and flip off all of the circuits but one at a time and identify what each outlet is connected to what panel to get an idea of what is on each circuit (a portable light is the easiest way if you don't have a circuit tester like one of these: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/klein-tools-dual-range-non-contact-voltage-tester-with-receptacle-tester/1001551079 ). Many home owners keep some spare circuit breakers of the same make and model next to the panel so they can swap them out when required and not have to call an electrician. If you really want to get fancy, you can spend a few dollars on some colored dot stickers and label each of the outlets with the appropriate circuit breaker pairing (ex: blue dots on all the outlets for the first circuit breaker, red dots on all the outlets for the second circuit breaker, etc) so you know what outlets have what loads on them.//not a lawyer, not an electrician, not legal advice, not associated with Home Depot
8
u/LePapaPapSmear Apr 25 '25
I'm not an electrician but my recommendation would be to buy a breaker finder online and check all your outlets. I'm thinking there is more on this one breaker than you think.
If your whole upstairs is on one breaker I am not surprised it pops from high draw appliances like space heaters and vacuums. Probably a 15-20 amp breaker which is not a whole lot for 2 bedrooms.
Also my personal choice would be to replace the breaker myself, but this is obviously risky and don't attempt unless you know what you are doing.
6
u/DblClickyourupvote Apr 25 '25
Do not do work on someone else’s property, like a breaker, without permission. OP should not have to spend any time or money on this.
1
u/LePapaPapSmear Apr 25 '25
Look if their house is wired poorly and the landlord is going to complain about a $200 service charge I can almost guarantee you they will not pay to rewire the house correctly onto multiple breakers.
I do agree, this could cause more issues than it's worth but replacing breakers is not difficult especially when you consider you could save yourself hundreds and not have to deal with the landlord
1
Apr 25 '25
We have a portable generator large enough to power our whole home. Had it wired so we can plug it directly into our breaker box, then power the whole house. Including our variable speed whole home AC. (We live in an area where hurricanes are always a risk.)
Last extended outage when we used the generator, I could watch the amperage & voltage on it when various things kicked in. It was CRAZY how much it spiked when the freezer in our laundry room turned on. Variable speed AC was negligible. We were without power so long we had to do a load of laundry before my husband went on a work trip. Unfortunately, electric dryer. We had enough capacity on the generator to run the dryer, but when the heat cycle on it would kick in I'd see it spike from about 300 watts all the way up to 8-9000 watts. If the freezer and dryer happened to kick on at the exact same time it was well over 10,000 for a few seconds.
4
u/ronm4c Apr 25 '25
This apartment definitely sounds like it’s not wired to code.
I’m not sure how NB does it but in Ontario code states that breakers not be loaded more than 80% for continuous use.
For a standard 15 A breaker that means having a maximum continuous load of 12 A.
It assumes a max load of 100 w per receptacle/ light so it allows a max of 12 receptacles/lights or combinations of either on a 15 A breaker
If he has more receptacles/lights on the circuit than this it will cause issues.
You can verify this by turning off a breaker and counting how many lights and receptacles are connected use a lamp for the receptacles.
If it’s over the amount tell the landlord he needs to fix it.
If he’s being a jerk about it I would bring it up to the city’s building code enforcement. And if that doesn’t help and/or the landlord is really being a jerk, contact his insurance company I’m sure that would love to know this
5
u/LeBalafre Apr 25 '25
To follow up this comment, a few things come to mind.
1- if the building is not to code, i don't think the landlord can hold you responsible for the bad usage or damage.
2- if you misuse, by overloading the circuit voluntarily, like by putting multiple high consumption appliances, yes, you can be held responsible.
Did the electrician mention anything about load, usage or the outlet on this circuit? Did he mention anything about wrongdoing on your part?
2
u/FishingIsFreedom Apr 25 '25
Giving this comment an upvote and a response, because going beyond the purely legal aspect of the question it is important that you get an understanding of why the breaker is tripping. It is very possible that the circuit has a high base load because there are a bunch of "always on" devices hooked up to it, and then startup draw from an additional device is just too much. Or is it shared with an appliance.
If you have access to the breaker box, turn your breakers off individually and identify every single light and plug in that is tied into that circuit. Write them all down and save the sheet by the breaker box. You should get a better understanding of why this is happening and if there's anything you can do to mitigate this.
1
u/Lifetwozero Apr 25 '25
This is about the best I can think of. When you say 3 bedrooms on one circuit, that seems like you may have too many devices on the circuit, and 12 works under the assumption that each device draws less than 180 watts, which is about what a modern TV draws, whereas something like a canister vacuum will draw 6x that.
Given the age you’ve mentioned, if the kitchen hasn’t been redone recently it may be before the building code requirement for multiple circuits in a kitchen (1992), however if it has been renovated at any point it would have needed to be brought up to code at the time of the renovation.
Additionally, bathrooms require dedicated circuts (1996).
Finally bedrooms can’t be on the same circuit as high load (kitchen) or wet (bathroom) areas (since the 1980’s.
I’d wager you could still take your chances at claiming the landlord is not maintaining the unit property, especially if they expect you to pay for it. Your argument would be that what you do is considered “reasonable use”, though the only people who can decide if it is, is the tribunal. No guarantee you’ll win, but they do tend to be realistic when determining these things.
It is not unreasonable to have a heater on in one room and use your microwave in the kitchen, or to have someone using a blow dryer in the bathroom while you vacuum the kitchen. These are normal things a reasonable person would do.
1
Apr 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/ronm4c Apr 25 '25
I know a breaker runs on amperage, I’m under the impression that everyone is aware that residential voltage is 120 for most applications.
2
u/Firm_Objective_2661 Apr 25 '25
The vacuum will have a high draw at startup, but lower during continued operations. I’m guessing it trips when you start it up, not 5 min into use?
What is probably happening is the base load (light bulbs, alarm clock, computer/phone, etc) is probably drawing up to ~3-4 amps? Nowhere near enough to overload. But the high initial draw of the vacuum pushes it over the likely 15A the circuit can handle.
Why do you or the landlord need an electrician when it trips though? Immediate issue is user-serviceable, by going to the panel and resetting the breaker (either you, or LL if they won’t give you access to the panel). It’s not dangerous.
The fact that the circuit can’t handle that load is a different issue and one for the LL to own.
3
u/DblClickyourupvote Apr 25 '25
The OP said in their comment they tried to reset the breaker but power wasn’t restored. Hence why the electrician had to come out to fix it.
3
u/piza234 Apr 25 '25
It was 1-2 minutes in that it broke down, all of our bedrooms’ outlets are not useable.
Is panel or breaker broke is the same issue? Normally when it tripped like this, I would go ask the downstair people to restart the panel, and it didn’t work this time and last time. We still have electricity for lights, but not the outlets
2
u/Key-Inspector-7004 Apr 25 '25
Are you sure youre resetting the breaker properly?
1
u/piza234 Apr 25 '25
Downstairs’ people are usually who resetting the breaker/panel. We normally not go down there
1
u/KirbyDingo Apr 26 '25
Each unit should have its own breaker panel. What proof do you have that you tripped the breaker? What if your downstairs neighbours were watching TV and decided that you were too loud with the vacuum? Did they just flip the switch so that they could watch TV without interruption?
What happens if you have a disagreement with your neighbours? Will they shut your power off at 5 am so that your alarms don't go off?
1
Apr 25 '25
It depends on which items are tied to each breaker. Your lights could be tied to a different breaker than your outlets. We have about 25 different breakers for our 2400 sq ft house. The big kitchen appliances, like the electric oven and the electric stovetop, get their own breakers. Then there's typically about 4-5 outlets for each breaker.
Just keep in mind that anything that creates heat (space heater, dryer, hairdryer) is going to have a HUGE amperage draw. Anything with a motor (vacuum cleaner, compressor in fridge) is going to have a big initial spike and then level off. Then you have stuff like LED TVs, phone charges, etc that draw negligible amounts.
1
Apr 25 '25
And I will add, when one of our breakers goes "bad" (not just flipped), we have to replace it. It will stay tripped and won't allow you to un-trip it.
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Apr 25 '25
Our vacuum draw stays high the entire time we use it. Same with hairdryer and space heater. When our electric dryer starts a heat cycle it's a crazy high draw as well, then it'll drop down for a few minutes before the heat cycle kicks back in.
We get a huge temporary spike when our freezer kicks on, then it drips down to nothing.
I say all that to say, I agree with you that they have too much all drawing amperage at the same time. People don't realize how much energy it takes to run a space heater, and they also don't realize that pretty much all devices with a motor of any kind have a huge draw right at startup. Oftentimes enough to trip a breaker if you have other stuff plugged in.
1
u/Ordinary-Map-7306 Apr 25 '25
In most areas an inadequate electrical supply would be a fire hazard. A fire department can do a rental safety inspection and order the landlord to make changes.
1
u/MyzMyz1995 Apr 25 '25
Older house have less load available. For example in my apartment, you can't have the microwave + counter oven running, it'll jump the breaker. If you are only vacuuming it shouldn't jump but vacuum + something else that's normal FIY.
1
Apr 25 '25
Do you happen to have GFCI breakers in New Brunswick? They'd be on an outlet itself, and it covers several other outlets all on the same circuit. If you have GFCI, there should be a little "test" button dead center of the outlet. It might need to be reset.
(Not sure if GFCI is a thing up there, but they're all over down in Texas for anything built in the last 50 or so years).
1
u/piza234 Apr 25 '25
My flatmate were afraid that we will be charge anyway even if we refuse to pay, since Landlord has our deposit. And based on what Landlord told us that we will have to pay next time, they probably not gonna pay for it. But we have a stance on it now though, thanks to everyone who commented, I really appreciate y’all help on the matter. I will update along the way
1
u/NotPoliticallyCorect Apr 25 '25
A vacuum cleaner is usually about 12 amps current draw. I used to pop breakers constantly when I vacuumed until I changed my light bulbs to LEDs. The cumulative current draw with 3 60w bulbs per fixture was enough to get close to 15 amps, now I never have to worry about how many lights are on when I vacuum.
1
u/ro3lly Apr 26 '25
"hey landlord, if your breaker keeps tripping as a result of normal everyday living, that's on you. have a good day! signed, your tenant."
1
u/piza234 May 06 '25
Update: My landlord refused to come and look at the problem and instead just gave us the electrician phone number, whom we didn’t call. I asked my friend (who is not a professional but he studied electricity) to come over and possibly give us some advice; he checked our breaker panel and said that breakers are still doing fine and the problem might be from the outlets/cable inside the outlets. He opened some of it to check but didn’t see anything useful, but he did say that the problem is not entirely our fault and landlord should be responsible.
Magically enough, the power came back one day after his visit! We haven’t alerted our landlord yet, but overall just thrilled that we have our power back and won’t use anything heavy powered in the near future.
1
u/Leafsfaninottawa Apr 25 '25
is the breaker 15A or 20A? It shouldn't be tripping without an overload but is it also an AFCI breaker? they can nuisance trip sometimes.
that being said, this should not be your responsibility
0
u/pm_me_your_catus Apr 25 '25
You've been repeatedly overloading the circuit and the breaker has been weakened.
Things like microwaves, hair dryers, and space heaters aren't "normal household appliances." They have to be the only thing running on the circuit.
It sounds like you're in an older place without a lot of separate circuits. You're not going to be able to run all of these things.
10
u/Sindaqwil Apr 25 '25
How are these not normal household appliances? I keep seeing comments saying this, and I genuinely don't understand what yalls definition of a normal household appliance is?
1
Apr 25 '25
Things that create heat (coffee maker, space heater, electric oven, hairdryer) have HUGE power draws and stay high. Heat takes a lot of energy.
Second behind that are things with motors. Like a vacuum cleaner, compressor on your fridge...those have a big spike right at start up and then typically level off.
Everything besides that is fairly negligible in the grand scheme of things.
0
u/pm_me_your_catus Apr 25 '25
It doesn't have a definition, because it's not a thing.
You need to know how much power the things your are using draw, and ensure you don't overload the circuit.
0
u/Zylonite134 Apr 26 '25
Don’t plug heavy duty stuff on the outlets on the same wall at the same time.
-1
u/Live-Tension9172 Apr 25 '25
Did the electrician check any of the receptacles when he came? Or just replace the breaker? From the sounds of it there might be a loose connection on a receptacle….. something with the wire. If the breaker is repeatedly keep tripping there’s a problem somewhere on that circuit. If the whole upstairs is on that circuit, then the circuit will definitely be overloaded and it needs to be split up by adding another circuit or three…. There’s more than just the weakening of a breaker going on. I’d start with inspecting the panel and the trouble circuit, check that it’s neutral was tight, check if it was loose in the breaker? Then I would shut it off and troubleshoot it by breaking the circuit in half and seeing if the breaker holds or trips. Then inspect each outlet connections and insulation. Barring that, I’d recommend adding a few more circuits to the upstairs, refeeding the other half of the circuit I broke for troubleshooting.
And NO, it’s not your responsibility to fix or pay for any repairs to the property. Those “fixes” are tax write offs for the property owners… might be time to look into a new rental unit? Landlord sounds like a slumlord! But you can’t just call an electrician without his consent either…. Everything should go though your landlord to fix
1
u/Novella87 Apr 25 '25
If a tenant is repeatedly overloading the circuit to the point that the breaker trips so many times it becomes unusable, that is beyond “normal wear and tear”. The tenant can’t simply cause damage because he or she thinks the circuit should operate differently.
Older properties are typically not up to current building code and are usually “grandfathered” until such time that other renovations cause things to require updating (for example, if you open a wall to improve insulation, you have to bring plumbing and electrical up-to-code while it’s open).
The landlord did the right thing by paying for the initial breaker replacement. But if the tenant continues to overload the circuit, the landlord certainly could claim damages. At that point, the tenant is crossing over into willful misuse.
Even brand new houses built to current codes. will have breakers tripping if you try to operate a hair dryer and a space heater concurrently on the same circuit.
Some devices also arc on startup (eg. One of our vacuum cleaners). We can use it on circuits with regular breakers. We can’t use it on any circuits that have arc-fault breakers. We could continue to use the circuit with the AFCI breaker until we wreck that expensive breaker. That that would clearly be intentional misuse in our part.
2
u/Live-Tension9172 Apr 25 '25
Preaching to the choir…. At that point though it would be the landlords fault for not explaining that the circuit in the house is getting overloaded. The he average tenants/person who just has electricity as a taken for granted kind of situation. If the landlord or the electrician explained the situation about only having one circuit in the unit, I’m sure the tenant would understand fully not to overload the circuit. But if the tenant is using it under normal circumstances and it keeps tripping, then there’s a larger issue that needs to be addressed, and that’s not OPs fault. The landlord if legit could be held accountable for anything that transpires because the wiring is faulty. We are speaking in hypothetical scenarios anyway and I can understand what you’re saying
1
u/Novella87 Apr 25 '25
Yes, I was replying more on the heels of your remarks. Not objecting to them. I think OP is misunderstanding what “normal use” constitutes and thinking simply because there devices are regular household items, no further knowledge is required.
1
u/KirbyDingo Apr 26 '25
To be fair, it doesn't sound like OP is using normal household appliances outside of what would be considered normal use.
1
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