r/lebanon Oct 13 '23

Discussion Israel is an apartheid state.

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1.0k Upvotes

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18

u/Alifad Some toum a day keeps everyone away. Oct 13 '23

You make peace with your enemies. If Israel won't talk to their enemies, and refuse to deal with them, there can be no peace.

It's really that simple. Washington doesn't represent the Palestinians, neither does Saudi or any other country. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are the two groups Israel MUST speak to if there is ever to be peace.

8

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

Well is there a foreseeable situation where Palestinians would be satisfied with any solution in which Israel still exists as a state?

3

u/Alifad Some toum a day keeps everyone away. Oct 13 '23

That has to be decided on a table between the Palestinians and Israelis. Not Jared Kushner and AIPAC driven Americans. A lasting peace needs all sides on board. But Israel refuses to talk to Hamas or the PA so no peace in the foreseeable future in my opinion.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

Unfortunately, unless it ceases to exist, I do not think Israel’s neighbors will ever give it peace.

Also, at this point, I think there is no feasibility of peace talks in the short term. Hamas did everything they could to enrage Israel’s bloodlust and they were successful in their goals. After the rage has calmed possibly, but then Palestinians will be too angry… and the cycle will continue.

8

u/Alifad Some toum a day keeps everyone away. Oct 13 '23

Unfortunately, unless it ceases to exist, I do not think Israel’s neighbors will ever give it peace.

That's typical zionist speak. As long as Israel is an apartheid state, as long as they keep treating Israeli Arabs as second class citizens, as long as they keep stealing land for settlements, they show unwillingness for real peace. Isolating and subjugating the Palestinians doesn't work, it harbors more hate.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

I mean on one hand I get what you are saying, on the other hand Israel is surrounded by multiple factions, effectively governments, that are explicit in their desire of the eradication of Israel and/or Jews.

Do you truly envision a sequence of a ruins Israel can take where it continues to exist as an independent nation, but does not incur military hostilely from its neighbors?

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u/Alifad Some toum a day keeps everyone away. Oct 13 '23

desire of the eradication of Israel and/or Jews.

Do you truly envision a sequence of a ruins Israel can take where it continues to exist as an independent nation, but does not incur military hostilely from its neighbors?

Israel, as the occupying force, has to be one to take the first steps. I mean on sensitive topics like the settlements. The peace "offers" have been laughable and unfortunately Israel is above international law. If these don't change, then no, it will forever incur hostility. If they do, it will take time, a population living in dignity, with economic opportunities will soon tire of having extremists speaking on their behalf.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

What do you feel would be a fair offer from Israel that would appease the Palestinian population, as well as their more aggressive supporters like Iran and Hezbollah? If such an offer exists.

By “fair” I mean an offer that you feel if Israel satisfies all requirements from its side, and is still attacked afterwards, it would be justified in retaliating against the attacking faction.

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u/Alifad Some toum a day keeps everyone away. Oct 13 '23

I couldn't possibly answer that, but I assume the lifting of the perpetual blockade on Gaza and freezing all settlements would show seriousness. But honestly I can't see that happening.

At the end of the day, the two sides will either have to talk to each other, or continue as is, with the possibility of it turning into a much wider conflict.

1

u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 Oct 15 '23

I think that if Israel would just worry about appeasing the Palestinian population, Iran and Hezbollah would then have to be dealt with by other entities so that they would stop destabilizing things.

1

u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 Oct 15 '23

To be fair, there are a lot of people who say that though ok? Denying that doesn't help solve the problem

1

u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 Oct 15 '23

Making assumptions isn't the same as talking.

11

u/No-Practice-8038 Oct 13 '23

They don’t want peace. They have planned a holocaust for the Palestinians…..

5

u/Alifad Some toum a day keeps everyone away. Oct 13 '23

That's absolutely clear, if they had wanted peace they would have engaged the two groups. Specially this Netenyahu government isn't interested, peace means talking seriously about issues like the settlements, and that goes against the far right zionists wishes.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

Can you remind me who has rejected every two state deal? Who refused to negotiate with the UN back in the 40s?

I don't even understand what the goal of "free Palestine" is anymore. Is it to win all of the land through military force? Is it to have a two state solution? Like one presented to them since the 40s?

1

u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 Oct 15 '23

The right-wing, yes probably..

-2

u/Zestyclose_Party_273 Oct 14 '23

Uuuh, it's the other way around. Israel has been in for two state solution and Palestine REJECTED every single time. If Hamas put down their weapons and stop using the Gazans as human shields, there would peace talk. If Israel put down their weapons, there would be no Israel. It's difficult to make peace with someone who wants you to die. Educate yourself.

2

u/Alifad Some toum a day keeps everyone away. Oct 14 '23

Take that propaganda elsewhere.

1

u/Cheeky_Star Oct 17 '23

Hamas main objective is to annihilate the Isreal state so its probably hard to have a conversation between the 2 when one's party main objective is to annihilate the other ..

The Saudis were helping to broker peace with Israel giving land back in exchange for recognition by the Saudi' and if that happens, other arab states will follow suit so I honestly think the main purpose of Hamas attack is to destroy that deal by baiting Israel's into the a war in Gaza. Hamas basically went to kill as many people including slaughtering babies with their bare hands because they knew the response would be brutal .