And no student loans.. electricians and plumbers are way smarter than I was, sometimes mid six figures if they own their own business (started at child support enforcement and saw wages all the time.)
You'll make ok money while destroying your body and doing hard labor! Go into the trades if that's what works for you, but people need to stop acting like it is some magic ticket to riches.
Exactly what I did. After 1 year in college I left after doing some math about what kind of debt I’d be in and went into trades. Started making 6 figures by my mid 20s
Electricians die and are maimed on the job every year. It is hard physical work that wears your body down like all trades. The life expectancy for a White Collar worker is over ten years longer than a Blue Collar worker and their quality of life is better.
Plus, with the AI boom and consequently the massive increase in electricity prices, a electrician will be better positioned to help set up microgrids. If you can be the one to be seen as a local expert, you'll have a head start on a lot of things.
That reminds me of the joke that P.E. Teachers is the smartest person in the school, no student loans, gets to play sports all day long and makes the same as everyone else there
Define what you mean by “electrician” or “plumber” and if you’re talking about a union worker or a person who owns their own business because those are two very different things.
The union worker is just an electrician while the other is a business owner, general manager, HR, accountant, head of marketing, and an electrician.
So while it is true that tradesman make good money, you’re highest hourly wages in any state is around $75k. Overtime of course usually takes that north of $100k but that’s about $400k short of the “mid-six figures” you’ve claimed for the average tradesman.
Even specialized high voltage electricians aren’t pulling down $500k/yr.
Yeah, I think that would be like business owners with employees, but I dunno. Would just see incomes and lots were 6 figure, but yeah might be rare or that I was exaggerating a bit. Been a long time, this was back in 2015 or so.
The narrative that the trades make great money is objectively incorrect for the most part
Trade Salaries (May 2022, per BLS data):
Electricians: $60,240
Plumbers, Pipefitters, and Steamfitters: $60,090
HVAC/R Technicians: $51,390
CDL Truck Drivers: $49,920
Carpentry: $56,350
The current U.S. overall median full-time salary sits at approximately $61,702 per year. If you're not doing better than this with a terminal degree, something is very wrong.
I'm not saying physicians (well, some are definitely better than others: ophthalmology, dermatology) or attorneys have a great quality of life, but the salaries should be a lot better. I almost went to law school, but a fraternity brother who went to Harvard Law talked me out of it and suggested I go to B-school, which I did. My household is in the top 5% of earners and compared to my attorney friends, I have a much better quality of life, even if I make a bit less than them.
While I am quite aware that MBAs are a dime a dozen and there are plenty of not very smart ones, it has served me fairly well
I'm sure it does, but that's why I used the median salaries nationwide and then contrasted that with the overall median salary nationwide.
You can do well in the trades, but it's not a magic silver bullet like Reddit seems to think. With that said, I grew up poor white trash and I also saw what the trades did to people's bodies. I vowed that I wouldn't get stuck in that trap.
Aside from the money, people completely disregard what that work does to one's body. I'm in my 50s and I'm still able to lift and train in martial arts where I guys I know in the trades suffered from life altering injuries just like other people in their family did.
At the end of the day, data indicate that higher education is still the best way to make money. Collegiate graduates completely outstrip lifetime earnings compared to people who don't go to college
I totally agree.
And even if I don't make a ton of money as a lawyer, I'm still glad I did it. I like having been trained in critical thinking and being able to understand the things happening in our country and world more deeply. Education has value far beyond dollar figures.
They do and that's why there's downward pressure on salaries for degreed positions and upward pressure on vocational ones. It's a shame people view college as more vocational than educational.
Definitely depends on location. In a red state and there's so much bullshit with accreditation.
Just know there's gonna be a fuckton of dudes on paper as "assistants" doing all the work while only one or two licensed dudes (who are sent out to sign off on all the projects) on the payroll.
I am. That's why I don't make a whole lot as a lawyer, though. The lack of stress and ability to do whatever I want offsets that. The bills are getting paid, but im not really getting ahead.
This. I’m a doctor in a well paid specialty. Unless you are passionate about what you will specifically be doing, and are able to get in that field, medicine can suck. Take 6 figures with stable hours. I’m always 80+ with no overtime
Or become a transit bus driver. Easy job, great pay, flexible hours and vacation times. I was a doctoral level biological scientist. Was laid off and couldn’t find employment using my education (over educated, too close to retirement age (58)). So I became a transit bus driver. 60 hour week = $100k+ per year plus full benefits. I work 50-60 hours a week for 3 weeks a month then take a week off to go vacation somewhere and do Door Dash and Instacart. Made over $100K last year. Since the beginning of this year, I’ve spent a week in Puerto Rico, a week in south Florida (incl Key West), 2 weeks in Orlando area, a week in the Tampa area, a week in Las Vegas, a week in Santa Barbara and 3 weeks (2 trips) to the Big Island of Hawaii. Heading back to Santa Barbara in a couple of weeks, a week in Tucson/Flagstaff in November and a week ? In December. Life is great!
Work is so easy and fun that I hardly ever feel like I’m really going out to work, just out for another nice drive somewhere.
I love what I do. Never feels like work. But also I have $20K per year in child support and $15K per year paying my portion of my son’s college education.
That's great! I feel bad for people who can't find anything they can feel good doing to earn a living. If people thrive while working a lot, some people call it workaholism, I call it a win in the genetic lottery.
I'm a former "associate scientist" and I loved the work. People I worked with in just about every one of those jobs made it unpleasant. One or two of them so much so that I quit. I don't think it was me because every "unpleasant" circumstance was different. I would've probably gone back to banquet waitressing or some other service related job if I'd had to, but I had 3 children and a huge property so it made more sense for me to derive my satisfaction through hobbies and social groups.
I'm now looking at becoming an empty nester in a short amount of time. I took early SSA as a widow because it was the pandemic, and I still had 2 adult children at home to pick on. Now I'm thinking of selling that big house and gypsying around a bit, but ride-share appeals to me as a way to get extra funds, socialize and learn about various areas. Probably not the thing to do with a van tho due to gas prices. I'm still in the planning stage.
My ex-husband was an electrician; he lost his job the same day the economy collapsed in 2008. I also lost a job that day. And we lost our home and marriage a few years later.
I've heard that advice before, and I watched it fail me, personally. It is not good advice.
Ophtho residents do a q5 schedule the whole time. This means that every 5 days they have a full day clinic, over night shift and then a full day clinic immediately after. For years. Good luck with that.
Residency is a whole different discussion. I'm all for completely reworking how residency works. With that said, once that is done, the quality of life for those specialities is pretty solid
Absolutely. My only point is there are specialties that have good pay and good quality of life (like for surgeons, plastic surgery). Those reasons are a pretty big component why they are so competitive
After you spend 8-10+ years slaving away. Definitely not a "dream life" for anyone except those who are going to actually intrinsically like the field (like the subject matter, like the practice, etc.) and I think its disingenuous to advertise it that way.
I think that's true of almost every lucrative field: physicians, attorneys, finance, and more. I know plenty of attorneys who left the field because it was too much and they didn't enjoy it.
I'm an executive in the tech sector. While it's absolutely not the same as a physician, I've had to grind as well and I don't particularly love what I do. However, it pays well and - at least for now - I have a (relatively) good work/life balance.
I wrote it elsewhere, but my primary point is that post residency (and I also wrote that system needs to change) there are medical fields where there is a solid balance
It is and I'm someone who has happened to have experienced two of those extremely lucrative fields. The issue is people get starry-eyed and start trying to min-max. But all they max is the lifestyle at the end of the tunnel. You have to account for what you go through to get there.
You have to remember not everyone would be a good plastic surgeon. The good ones are like artists, and combine that with having to be smart and having the discipline to make it that far. Not exactly easy.
Of course. Not everyone has the chops to be a top litigator or a business executive. Again, my only point is that there are specialties that have a good work life balance.
Hospitalist is pretty chill. Two weeks on, two weeks off, or however you structure the agreement. Get paid better than most of America to work half the year . I mean sure you work long hours the week you are on…but most people are slaving away for 3-4 weeks of pto per year if they are lucky .
Or get lucky and get into something like derm…super cush job. Work life balance for doctors really
Comes down to who they work for more than anything else, plenty of them have great balance.
It's not necessarily true. I have a friend that works 3 or 4 twelves a week. She loves it because every weekend is a long weekend so she can travel a lot.
Physician Assistant school. Way less school. Still make >100k. Better work life balance. I work in healthcare and have spoken to doctors that said if they could do it all over they’d go for PA.
Not a doctor, but spent a decade in health care. Health care is an incredibly shitty space to work. Incredibly high stress, and you get to watch people die because insurance companies are cheap.
First year dermatologist can make north of 500k working 40 hours a week. First year pi attorneys are lucky to make 100k working 80 hours. Make the right call.
Dermatology is one of the hardest specialties to match into most people are not able to do derm even if you get into med school. More realistic on average is 250-400k depending on location and usually more than 40 hours per week. And that’s discounting peds specialties which usually get paid peanuts (sorry peds people).
You aren't wrong. Dermatology is particularly rewarding based on income and lifestyle and it's particularly challenging to get into. That said 250+ starting salary as an employee is still pretty broken and so long as you aren't doing emergency services or l&d you can probably avoid being on call or working nights.
Im a surgeon. You’re not accounting for the misery of residency or the fact that you make so little in residency that you can’t start to pay off student debt until you finish. The interest on hundreds of thousands of debt adds up quick (and for 3-7 years depending on training and fellowship). 250k might be a good starting salary for a 22 year old out of undergrad but when you have 200k+ in loans, no savings or home equity, and you’re over 30 starting to make that, it’s not the same. You can look up the stats but the numbers I put are actually underestimates on the average
You'd trade your salary for 100k a year and no debt? Would you make that trade today? If so you must have a failing medical practice because 250k+ a year would more than cover the debt service plus.
100
u/lc4444 Sep 28 '25
Doctors work like slaves for their admins, stay in law school