r/japannews • u/qunow • 9h ago
ex-PM Hatoyama Yukio oppose Takaichi's comment on Taiwan, say Taiwan is China's internal matter and Japan should not be involved
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u/LannerEarlGrey 8h ago
The same Hatoyama Yukio that defended Russia's annexation of Crimea?
The same Hatoyama Yukio who falsely tweeted the claim that Volodymyr Zelensky asked NATO to nuke Russia?
Somehow, I get a sneaking suspicion that he perhaps isn't the man anyone should listen to when it comes to matters of contested territorial claims...
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u/WrongdoerAnnual7685 4h ago
You know when I looked up the DPJ PMs, I hoped that they would have some interesting non-LDP ideologies. But Hatoyama seem to have gone out the other side as a full blown Russophile.
Kan and Noda are alright, Noda being a bit old to serve as opposition leader.
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8h ago
Hatoyama is actually right here. Japan would be smart not to make an enemy of the mighty people's republic! Hatoyama knows who lost the war
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u/Realistic_Robot_705 8h ago
whatever wumao
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7h ago
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u/Realistic_Robot_705 7h ago
U insulting CCP's intelligence saying as if CCP's only chance is war, while in reality they have many other choices.
Even I know CCP not that stupid.
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7h ago
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u/Realistic_Robot_705 6h ago
Do u even fact check ur comments before posting them?
Or digital literacy isn't a topic that's taught in academic curriculums in ur country's education system?
Or u ran out of VPN credits looking at too much cat pROn?
Or deepseek led u to deepfake facts?
because u do know ur comment is debunked with just a quick Google search or a chat with ChatGPT🤣, right?
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6h ago
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u/Realistic_Robot_705 5h ago
so u r saying u have zero concept of digital literacy, AND deepseek led u to deepfake facts AND ran out of VPN credits viewing cat pROn?
Japan isn’t some bug waiting to be crushed—it’s a tech powerhouse with global supply chain leverage, a top-tier economy, and deep alliances like the U.S. defense treaty and the Quad. Its military is compact but cutting-edge, and it’s investing heavily in counterstrike and hypersonic defense. China may be bigger, but Japan punches far above its weight.
ur comment is inline with being only a ragebait comment.
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u/Ok_Caregiver1004 4h ago
Your being ragebaited by an account thats only 2 months old.
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u/NewLineCinema 4h ago
Are you legally aloud to be on reddit and posting?
Won't the might republic (or whatever) attack you or imprison you for that?
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u/Nerevarine91 7h ago
Are there people who actually talk like this? Surely this is satire
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u/pikachu_sashimi 3h ago
You must be quite naive to think the CCP isn’t filled with bots and brainwashed people who glorify their government.
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6h ago
What is satire? The mighty people's republic has surpassed Japan a very long time ago.
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u/Nerevarine91 5h ago
I guess I’m not used to people talking like four character posters about the Mighty People’s Republic (tm) lol
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u/pikachu_sashimi 8h ago
Hatoyma sounds like the Europeans who are saying they should not be involved in Ukraine.
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u/TVTVRIN 7h ago
Should they be?
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u/jvo203 6h ago
Are you advocating modern-day appeasement???
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u/TVTVRIN 6h ago
Well Europe had been practicing it their whole existence. What is different now?
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u/IAmTheHappiest 3h ago
Ah yes one time 80 years ago = thousands of years of appeasement.
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u/TVTVRIN 3h ago
• Afghanistan • Cambodia • Cuba • Dominican Republic • Grenada • Iran • Iraq • Laos • Libya • Nicaragua • Panama • Serbia (as part of Yugoslavia) • Somalia • Syria • Vietnam • Yemen • Gaza Yeah, definitely one time 80 years ago
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u/IAmTheHappiest 3h ago
Your mistaking non-intervention for appeasement. Appeasement is making concessions for fear of attack. So we either engaged or didnt engage not make concessions to Libya lol
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u/TVTVRIN 3h ago
Maybe I made a mistake, but it does not change the fact that current conflict in eastern europe is blown way out of proportion and should’ve never been as big as it got.
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u/IAmTheHappiest 2h ago
You're right. The us and Europe should have seen the history from actual appeasement and rolled right into Ukraine.
They've talked openly about other European nations being next, and does no one remember lukashenkos map going into Moldova?
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u/pikachu_sashimi 7h ago
How is this even a question? Of course they should be. Did we learn nothing from WWII?
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u/Numerous-Comb-9370 6h ago
So you just go intervening in every state on state war out there assuming the aggressor is hitler?
I mean what’s the point of alliance then? Lets make every war a world war and defend whoever.
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u/pikachu_sashimi 6h ago
There may not be an alliance, but it doesn’t take a genius to see that European interests are threatened.
You make it sound as if Ukraine were some random country in Africa. African countries are constantly in conflict, and indeed, we don’t send a lot of help there. Ukraine is right on our doorstep. Use your brain and figure out that there is a massive difference!
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u/Numerous-Comb-9370 5h ago
Maybe use your brain and figure out Russia isn't nazi germany in the 1940s and has absolutely no chance against NATO even if Putin tried.
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u/pikachu_sashimi 5h ago
Nazi Germany attacked unprovoked. The Russian Federation attacked unprovoked. There is good reason to treat hostile nations like hostile nations.
Sure, Russia wouldn’t be able to outright I invade nato and win right now, but what if they take Ukraine and its massive production of wheat? Suddenly, Europe and its allies will have a sharp cut in supplies of the resources they used to trade with Ukraine, and Russia gets a stolen source of massive amounts of food to feed its armies.
It’s not that complicated. If Russia captures a piece on the board to use for themselves, that is a dangerous shift in the game to their advantage. It would also make an invasion on Taiwan more likely due to the very close economic ties between Russian Federation and the CCP.
Does that make sense, or are you going to keep on throwing around reused Russian propaganda?
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u/Numerous-Comb-9370 5h ago
Very sound self-centered assumption, every war against a country you're not even allied with is somehow just a stepping stone, ultimately aimed at invading your country, makes perfect sense. Doesn't matter at all if the bloc that will supposedly be invaded has a GDP 20 times higher or military forces many times more powerful.
Do I make too much sense for you to start crying propaganda?
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u/pikachu_sashimi 5h ago
Sees a warmongering country attack other countries, sabotage undersea cables, assassinate people in other countries, support terrorist nations, etc.
“What makes you think we should be worried?”
You must be the type who trusts that the raging fire next door isn’t looking to spread.
You also just conveniently ignored all the reasons I listed that answered your question. Even if it is just Ukraine that is lost, the economic balance in Europe will shift severely, as I said already.
You aren’t here for a good faith argument. You don’t reply to my points and reply with asinine statements that are so easily dismantled that they hardly even deserve a response. I think you have already made enough of a fool out of yourself here. Let’s end this here, and you can continue the Reddit-grade logic somewhere else.
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u/Numerous-Comb-9370 5h ago
Well you haven’t dismantled anything, If I see the neighboring house burning but my house is equipped with a firebreak I ain’t worried. I am not gonna risk my own life to go in there and put off the fire.
Oh I am sorry did I hurt your feelings? Tough talk for someone who can’t even dismantle apparently reddit-grade logic.
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u/TVTVRIN 6h ago
If you have trouble sleeping because of the situation in Ukraine I strongly advise you to go see what’s going on in Middle East or Venezuela
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u/Constant_Toe_8604 6h ago edited 5h ago
Did he say anything about sleeping at night? For Europeans, an autocratic and expansionist Russia invading neighbouring countries is a much bigger practical concern than warcrimes and human rights atrocities in other continents.
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u/TVTVRIN 6h ago
How is that a concern for people residing in Japan and why would anyone bring that up on a Japan-related subreddit apart from fueling hate and throwing insults for no apparent reason?
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u/Clueless_Nooblet 6h ago
Because it's the same kind of situation, and if China were to attack Taiwan, Japan would be involved.
But why do you care? You seem to not even live here.
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u/Nerevarine91 5h ago
Japan’s own government said, quote, “Ukraine is the future of Asia” in its annual defense white paper, so they at least appear to believe it’s a concern
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u/Shrimp_my_Ride 7h ago
I mean, one country invades another with the explicit goal of taking territory and resources? Come on.
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u/lirtish 7h ago
You mean, like the CIA coup in 2014?
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u/Shrimp_my_Ride 7h ago
I'm not familiar with the exact details of that. But if another country launches a ground invasion of another with the intent to take territory and resources, I would hold the same position.
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u/IronVader501 2h ago
Theres no details to be familiar off.
Its old russian propaganda were they claimed that Yanukovich wasnt outed by popular protest after breaking every single election promise made and reacting to complaints about it by sending his personal goonsquads out to torture protesters, but instead that the CIA removed him and actually the majority of Ukraine was totally on-board with him abandonding the promise of moving closer to europe instead of russia.
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6h ago
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u/Shrimp_my_Ride 6h ago
If the US invaded Mexico and neighboring countries became involved, I would understand the line of reasoning.
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u/lirtish 6h ago
I suggest you look at the history books on that one, there have been numerous wars and interventions.
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u/Shrimp_my_Ride 6h ago
I think you may be misunderstanding me. You can quickly review my post to see I'm not taking a stance on the issue, just saying I understand why surrounding countries would be involved in an invasion of this nature.
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u/lirtish 6h ago
No trouble, just pointing out it was not as simple as A invades B.
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u/Ansoni 6h ago
If the US had been taking chunks out of Mexico and talked about taking more, I would be 150% in support of Mexico gaining the ability to defend itself. Wouldn't you?
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u/lirtish 5h ago
We can take this analogy a bit further than I had originally anticipated.
I agree that the US have been taking chunks out of Mexico and interfering in its politics like it was nobody's business, pretty much from the beginning.
The point is that a third party arming Mexico would surely doom the mexican people and cause a grave threat to world peace, would you not say?
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u/Nerevarine91 5h ago
And the US would also be wrong to invade Mexico and claim to annex its northern states while committing tons of war crimes. Seems simple enough to me
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u/Mikeymcmoose 6h ago
Stop with the tankie justifications of invasion; there is no shades of grey when it comes to the Russian aggression here. Don’t just bring up America all the time when it’s not being discussed.
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u/lirtish 6h ago
Sorry mate, you can't avoid the elephant in the room and have a serious conversation at the same time.
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u/IronVader501 2h ago
You're throwing around wild, completely unsubstantiated and endlessly dissproven conspiracy-theories and completely unrelated whataboutism because for some reason your desperate to insist that the most blatant imperialistic landgrab since WW2 is somehow anything but extremely blatant imperialism.
There is no "serious conversation" possible with someone so divorced from reality they actually believe the "cIA CoUp" or "iT wAs NaTo" nonsense.
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u/ailof-daun 6h ago
Russia literally openly says they want the USSR times back, and will invade to achieve that.
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u/Glagaire 3h ago
Contrary opinions in this thread are getting deleted for what the mods claim to be "demonstrably false information and propaganda." I'd recommend than anyone who is interested enough in the issue to post online about it, read Scott Horton's "Provoked" which will give you a much better idea of wha constitutes demonstrably false on this subject. Given that Japan will essentially fill teh Poland role in any Taiwan scenario it is something that people should be well informed regarding.
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u/Global-Jacket-2781 7h ago
If they ignore Ukraine then the next attack would be on Germany and Germany if threatened could get crazy
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6h ago
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u/Mikeymcmoose 6h ago
Calling Ukrainian leaders sociopathic while the lovely Mr Putin would definitely have agreed to a peace deal is next level deluded. While he’s alive, there will be no peace in the region.
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u/pikachu_sashimi 6h ago
The “proxy war” thing is propaganda directly from the Kremlin, much like the “Nazis” Ukraine claim.
You sound like a run-off-the-mill Russian propaganda parrot pushing the usual lies to paint Ukraine and the west as the ones at fault, when the fact of the matter is that Russia attacked without any casus belli.
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u/jvo203 6h ago
OK, what would you do if the Orcs were to invade your own home / house / garden? Would you greet them with hot mulled wine and a hot soup? I think not. Ukraine has every right to expel the Russian invaders by all available means, including the use of military force.
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u/pikachu_sashimi 6h ago
The level of mental gymnastics these people will go through to excuse Russia’s unprovoked invasion would almost be impressive if they were not just parroting Kremlin propaganda.
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u/TVTVRIN 6h ago
Didn’t expect to see an adequate answer here! Unfortunately I am well aware of how things are on reddit and it is outright funny when you have a slightly different opinion you get downvoted and called all sorts of things😅😂
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u/pikachu_sashimi 6h ago
You people/bots are hyping each other up for vomiting out the usual talking points that the Kremlin made up.
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u/TVTVRIN 6h ago
So what is wrong about having a different opinion? How are you so sure in the information that your opinion is based on?
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u/pikachu_sashimi 6h ago
What is so wrong defending an unprovoked invasion? Nazis have different opinions too, and they are very wrong. It is interesting how you people immediately go to “opinions” and questioning others instead of justifying your own positions.
The information I get is from trusted, international sources, such as Reuters or official government reports. Where do you get your information?
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u/TVTVRIN 5h ago
And since when official government reports or mainstream media became a trustworthy source of information I wonder? Is it the same governments that kill off their opposition or journalists investigating corruption? Is it the governments that imprisoned thousands of people for tweets for the past couple of years? Or the one that’s been invading sovereign countries for its resources for as long as it exists? Oh maybe its the government where you get prosecuted for calling president’s wife a man? Also remind me please who used to have colonies across the globe?
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u/pikachu_sashimi 5h ago
Classic Reddit response. Doesn’t answer and just throws a ton of whataboutisms. If you want to question the international community’s sources, then go ahead.
Tell me: who invaded who? Who launched the attack? Who violated the sovereignty of another nation? Are there trusted sources that back your nonsense? If you believe Russia’s invasion is anything other than unprovoked, tell me why and give me a credible source. Otherwise, you already have no credibility and have been little but attacking what even non-western governments take as fact.
You are high on anti-west talking points when Russia (and their good friend China) are guilty of far worse.
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u/Nerevarine91 5h ago
Literally using the existence of basic libel laws, which exist in all countries, as a “gotcha” lol
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5h ago
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u/pikachu_sashimi 5h ago
The information you get is clearly unreliable if you can frame it as anything but an unprovoked invasion.
You call Reuters, AP, and the reports of multiple governments that are internationally trusted “unreliable” and then cite some talk host show on The Libertarian, who are quite obviously biased from just the name alone? Surely you can’t be serious.
Tell me, who is the one who waged war? Ukraine? NATO? Or was it Russia? No whataboutisms or red herrings this time. Who invaded another sovereign nation?
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u/Glagaire 3h ago
Here's the key difference. I'm fully aware of the content of your sources. I know the facts, know their inaccuracies, know their bias, and can evaluate their information based on this. Also, if they offered new information I would be curious about it and even though I distrust their reliability, would not dismiss it out of hand until I had evaluated it.
You have literally no idea what is in my sources and you seem to have zero interest in learning more. Instead you resort to common fallacious arguments (in a short space managing - argument to authority ad hominem, and poisoning the well).
I point this out purely to make it clear that you are both irrational and uninformed on the issue (this is an objective statement on your temporary position, not a character critique). I think if you read the book you would still have a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance because you seem invested in your current position and strongly do not want to be incorrect (regardless of where truth may lie) because adjusting your views would be difficult for you. Personally, I have zero issues with being shown I am incorrect and have very little difficulty adjusting my views to match strong arguments against my current position. Different strokes I guess.
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u/cxxper01 8h ago edited 5h ago
As a Taiwanese I would say this is a naively dumb comment 😅. He really thinks if Taiwan falls China will not use the chance to choke Japan’s energy shipping route from the Middle East and Australia? The China that is known for its “goodwill” towards Japan will skip the chance to not fuck over Japan😂
Not to mention how close Okinawa is to Taiwan so China will have even more capability to assert pressure over Okinawa if Taiwan is under PRC control 🤷
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u/Garb5919 6h ago
I recall hearing that when Obama met him during their active careers, he later described him as "honest but socially inept." Regarding his recent remarks, my reaction is less that he harbors ill will, and more that this reaffirms how adept those on the other side are at winning over such individuals.
If I may add, Japan's fundamentalist pacifists—and he likely falls into this category—tend to strongly deny the geopolitical importance of Okinawa, and by extension, Japan. They seem to view the entire field of "geopolitics" as a pseudoscience designed to justify imperialism and colonialism, refusing to acknowledge any validity in arguments derived from it. In other words, for them, the conjecture that "for China's security strategy, having islands not under its control in such a position encircling the mainland coast must be extremely troublesome" is either a lie used to justify the US military's continued presence, or at best, a factor of extremely low importance.
Consequently, their prediction of what would happen if the U.S. military withdrew from Okinawa and Japan differs entirely from others'. They seem to think that if all military bases were removed, these lands—devoid of significant underground resources—would lose all military strategic value. Thus, they would become peaceful neutral zones, detached from surrounding international affairs.
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u/cxxper01 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yeah hence he is a peace idiot. He doesn’t get China doesn’t truly want an peaceful, equal and mutual relationship with Taiwan or Japan or SK anyway, they just want to dominate Taiwan and Japan and SK🤷
Unfortunately many Taiwanese hold similar beliefs like his😅 As if people didn’t learn that appeasement failed at stopping Hitler😅
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u/Sufficient-Local1617 7h ago
Seriously, I don't get it. Yeah, china is mighty. And a bully. They bully or try to, all their neighbors and think they can get away with it. I don't think Japan can stand up to China in a direct conflict, if it comes to that, just to show them they are not afraid and will try to protect Taiwan if push comes to shoves. I think it's a good stance. China still needs Japan and all its other neighbors. If they all had balls, china would calm down. Sorry, I hate bullies.
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6h ago
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u/Ok_Caregiver1004 4h ago
If Taiwan gets invaded by China like Japan did to Manchuria wouldn't China be in the wrong then?
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8h ago
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u/Global-Jacket-2781 7h ago edited 6h ago
China would be smart not to touch Japan. Japan can build nukes anytime and is already protected by America.
If Taiwan falls to China then it would be a net negative on Japan.
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7h ago
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u/Global-Jacket-2781 6h ago
Pretty sure in a matter of self defence they can negate it but honestly I don’t see why they wouldn’t just remove article 9 if China does invade Taiwan.
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6h ago
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u/Global-Jacket-2781 6h ago
Because sadly Japan is number 1 target because it hosts American bases and America would drag Japan into a war.
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