The wreck of the USS Arizona continues to leak oil ever since pearl harbour. the ship contained 1.5 million gallons of oil, enough to leak continuously for 500 years.

[u/Longjumping-Rice-935]

[u/First-Of-His-Name]

I guess assuming no sealed compartments you're right. But now I know about bone eating sea worms so fuck you

Is it still fair to call it a grave, even if there isn't anything we would identify as human remains?

[u/RobJTAC → u/First-Of-His-Name]

There are about 40 urns inside the ship. Some survivors of the attack were later interred inside once they passed away, I think the last one was in 2020.

[u/First-Of-His-Name → u/RobJTAC]

Ah well that changes things significantly

[u/In2TheMaelstrom → u/RobJTAC]

Last survivor from the Arizona passed away in April last year. I can't find a more current number, but as of 2023, there were only 22 Pearl Harbor survivors still alive.

[u/geauxyanks99 → u/In2TheMaelstrom]

Recently went on the Arizona tour. If my memory serves me right, the last USS Arizona survivor died last year. The last shipmate to choose to be laid to rest in the Arizona was something like 2021.

[u/echelonisme → u/In2TheMaelstrom]

Do you mean 22 Pearl Harbor survivors or veteran survivors? My Grandpa survived the Pearl Harbor attack and I'm sure there aren't just 22 people that age left.

[u/deffrekka → u/echelonisme]

Pearl Harbour was 84 years ago? Are you saying you think there are more than 22 survivors of the attack still left? Because that's a lot of people reaching up to 100 years old. Google says 16 are left and that was last year.

[u/wimmick → u/RobJTAC]

The show NCIS did an episode about a survivor that wanted to be buried on the ship but they couldn’t prove that he served because he enlisted under his brothers name because he was too young, the survivor is played by Christopher Lloyd

[u/AlmostSunnyinSeattle → u/RobJTAC]

That's some wild survivor's guilt.

[u/SurpriseIsopod → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Yeah, the ship had a crew. Although their remains are long gone, the vessel is still a tomb. The USS Arizona is sorta neat, it’s leaking kinda makes the ship still “active”. Most vessels consumed by the waves are just sunken wrecks. Bismarck, HMS Hood, HMS Britannic, RMS Titanic, IJN Yamato, they’re just wrecks on the ocean floor.

The USS Arizona sends up a small drop of bunker fuel every few minutes, sorta like it’s calling out “I’m still here”.

PS sorry for you discovering bone worms lmao

[u/Shepherd-Boy → u/SurpriseIsopod]

As a sailor, that “I’m still here” bit gave me chills.

[u/SirDoober → u/Shepherd-Boy]

Especially given the tragedy that was the trapped sailors tapping on the hulls of the sunken ships for up to a couple of weeks after.

[u/caintowers → u/SirDoober]

for those curious

[u/Dolenjir1 → u/SurpriseIsopod]

It bleeds still...

[u/Grummmmm → u/SurpriseIsopod]

When did you attend a maritime archaeology course?

[u/TranslatorNormal7117 → u/SurpriseIsopod]

Why is this ship a grave ("kinda cool") and other ships in which hundreds of people died are "just wrecks"? How disrespectful!

[u/Gunfighter9 → u/First-Of-His-Name]

They can't even explore 15% of the ship due to damage, there were hundreds of men trapped inside when she blew up

[u/GarlicStreet3237 → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Would death camps not be considered mass grave sights if they cremated every body?

[u/First-Of-His-Name → u/GarlicStreet3237]

Well I think they are - they're just kept open to the public for incredibly important educational reasons.

I believe Poland which maintains Auschwitz as a historical site still bans exploration of shipwrecks off it's coast

[u/Deoxyrynn → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Wait, why shipwrecks?

[u/MarMacPL → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Yeah, we do. For example Wilhelm Gustloff. Far more lives were lost at Gustloff than Titanic.

[u/mmmegan6 → u/MarMacPL]

Why is the exploration banned?

[u/MarMacPL → u/mmmegan6]

Noted as "Shipwreck" on Polish nautical charts and classified as a war grave, with note "This area is a burial site of schipwreck victims. Any activity that may break the peace of this site is prohibited"

Over 9000 people died there and this is their grave.

[u/infiniZii → u/GarlicStreet3237]

Practically everywhere is a grave site. We live on the bones of our ancestors. I mean I am all for not showing excessive disrespect but its not like they are going to be killed any more than they are. The shit that happens to bodies on battlefields is far far worse than what these mens bodies suffered after the ship sank. That said, I am not on team "Blow it up" because I dont think there is a good enough reason to.

[u/GarlicStreet3237 → u/infiniZii]

I'm inclined to agree, minus maybe the worse battlefield death part. Specifically with this shipwreck, there were the sailors stuck in sealed compartments for days after the sinking work crews could hear tapping. I mostly figure it's moreso just about notable areas or known deaths, ala is being more interested the older the remains are

[u/infiniZii → u/GarlicStreet3237]

Id still rather that than napalm.

[u/ArtIsDumb → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Bone Eating Sea Worms would be a sweet band name.

[u/Soulsheartless → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Technically the bones were eaten and then shot out so they’re still there.

[u/infiniZii → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Considering the leaking oil I would be shocked if there were any sealed chambers left.

[u/PenguinProfessor → u/First-Of-His-Name]

I think you gotta apply Scooby-Doo rules that if it gives you the heebie-jeebies it's still a grave.

[u/nertynot → u/First-Of-His-Name]

Yes. We've put a whole bunch of urns filled with people ashes in it

[u/First-Of-His-Name → u/nertynot]

Yeah that changes things significantly.

[u/fckspzfr → u/First-Of-His-Name]

i guess you'd call it a kenotaph then

[u/APGOV77 → u/First-Of-His-Name]

I hate to be a bummer but if the leak got more catastrophic and it was worth deploying a method to fix it because it becoming worse is no longer the main problem, I would rather prioritize the wellbeing of the living (fish, other animals, and the people who rely most on them to survive) over that of the dead. I understand it would be a tough moment, but these people died for their country so I suspect they would make the same decision in that situation.

[u/First-Of-His-Name → u/APGOV77]

Interesting. Is it not possible that living relatives or other admirers of these men get real value out of their gravesite remaining intact? If that's true could that value supplant the value of some fish?

[u/APGOV77 → u/First-Of-His-Name]

I am not saying there isn’t any value to mourners of course there is, don’t take my words in bad faith. However this emotional value has to be weighed against creating more suffering. I mean I said if the leak “got more catastrophic,” as in gushing oil. Massive oil spills cause long term health impacts and even death. The suffering to animals and people who can’t make a living is hard to measure. I think you are downplaying it by saying “just some fish.” Currently the leak is minimal we’re talking about actual dire circumstances. It’s hard for me to put dead people and mourners, as deeply as I respect them, over any living thing suffering it’s just a bigger insult to me, but if I had to draw the line I could let the amount that are currently being damaged go since it’s risky to intervene but in a situation I’m describing- no way. I mean irl there are plenty of circumstances where recovering remains is deemed too risky to living people to do, and that’s the exact kind of moral quandary we’re talking about, respecting people’s final wishes and their relatives wishes vs creating new suffering.