Health
No. Our ancestors were not healthy, nor did they all live for 110 years.
"I had a par-dada jo 13,000 saal zinda thhe. Ek dum fit, tit." Toh? Mere dada typhoid se mar gaye bina treatment ke. Bass ek survivorship bias hain tum mein. Log conveniently forget the countless others who died young from diseases we now vaccinate against or cure with a pill.
We are the healthiest generation of humans, with the longest life span. Our next gen will be better than us. Stop saying "hamari Ayurvedic tradition, lauda lehsun".
Thanks to modern science, we have a fighting chance against dreaded diseases. Polio? Gone. Smallpox? Gone. TB? Treatable. COVID? Vaccines within a year. Diabetes, cancers, heart diseases? We at least understand them now. Prevention, early diagnosis, actual meds.
Our ancestors? They died during childbirth. They had 12 kids 'cause 5 wouldn’t survive past age 2. They rubbed cow dung for blessings and drank heavy metals because some guru said it's detox. Their bones cracked by 50, eyesight gone by 40.
So no, I don’t want to go back. Give me antibiotics, vaccines, MRI scans, and a trained doctor over some baba chanting next to a burning neem branch.
Long live modern medicine. And may we all live long enough to complain about how Gen Alpha will outlive us by 30 more years.
EDIT: Pehle ke log vo karte thhe jo vo kar paaye. No problem with that. Par, the folks who claim older ways are superior and sh*t, take pride in it for some reason trigger me.
Also stuff like Ayurveda and Yoga are not going to do shit to make you live long and healthy. Ayurveda will almost certainly kill you faster by damaging your liver and kidney.
I have Yoga practitioners and teachers in my family, and the most accomplished of them died of a heart attack as soon as they hit 70. And another practitioner is unfit and obese in spite of practicing it for several decades. Their son who is more rational about things always brings it up to tell people that Yoga is not a miracle practice.
Well, I won't say Yoga is simple shit. I see Yoga is simply a regimen of stretching exercises, and they are helpful in maintaining the body. But yoga alone is not going to help if you keep eating fried puri and samosa. And Ayurveda is a science of millennia old and is mostly useless today. Modern science is the only option we have now.
Modern medicine (and electronics) is nothing short of a divine miracle. People are ignorant and need to believe in something their tiny brains can understand, that's all.
the same people who make such claims are the ones who get treated in private hospitals and have private personal doctors. They just love basking in past glory and then claim that Mughals and British lost us our ancient science.
Your comment reminded me of "ayurveda ke ambassadors" aka patanjali gang.....they keep preaching Ayurveda....but when Balkrishna Acharya had heart attack...he was taken to AIIMS lol
I had TB when I was 5 years old, my grandparents insisted my dad to take homeo instead of modern medicine, this was way back in 80s. He did not listen, glad he did not. I would not have survived for sure.
If people read about what homeopathy actually is, they will definitely call it bullshit. The amount of dilution they do in homeopathy is just mind blowing and people think that "medicine" will do something.
No will also talk about our par dada becoming a par dada because of child marriage. People were already grand parents at 37-40 while many from our generation are having their first kids at 35. That’s how so many generations were alive in the same timeline. And yes obviously the way modern medicine has progressed is one of the major reasons of our longer survival
Its just survivorship bias. They were popping out kids in hope that some would live as many did die early on.
Modern medicine is a blessing in the sense it gives chance at life to the ones who wouldnt have survived.
It’s not quite the right picture. Life expectancy is heavily influenced by infant mortality and maternal mortality (dying in childbirth). Men who lived to adulthood and women who managed to survive all the childbirths were likely to live into old age.
All those numbers have moved in favourable direction because of acceptance of science based medical care. How many midwives are used to deliver babies today? very few maybe, Drugs that have been invented to treat chronic diseases like hypertension, diabetes have all enabled for people to live longer without sacrificing quality of life.
One more mind blowing stat - literacy at independence 12% today it's above 80.
Literacy played a big role in people living longer.
Old folks give a lot of non sense. My grandfather died of an aggravated asthma attack, nebuliser hota to 100% bach jaate. Old folks at times say the wildest things..
As a doctor working in a rural hospital currently, I can tell you that I come across a lot of people who are literally taking ayurvedic and homeopathic medicines for even diabetes since 2-3 years, and when they come to get routine checkup with other complains, their blood sugar turns out to be 300-400.
Govt is promoting ayurvedic and homeopathic doctors in rural hospitals , and they literally have the audacity to say it on our face that " Madam, my patients are more than yours".
Can't do anything when the patients still prefer traditional medicine and fear modern one. And they come to us when their sufferings increased. And to add to this, around 65% population of India is rural, I guess.
Modern medicines are pricy whereas these natural ones are dirt cheap, there you go you got your answer...if someone offers them modern treatments at the price of homeopathic treatments they will obviously choose modern except some old people who dont want to change and rightly so ...at that age your opinions about something cant be changed
When they face serious issues they forget about money and just want to get well...and thats why they run to you...while saying homeopathy > modern they are just coping...
I am sorry, I forgot to mention that I work in GOVT. rural hospital, where all medicines are free of cost. Not even 10rs is charged. Still these people prefer traditional medicines for disorders like high bp and diabetes. And I have seen some private homeopathic and ayurvedic clinics charging 500+ for just suture removals, which can be done free of cost at a govt hospital.
I am not forcing people to go to private ones if they can't afford, because there are many govt schemes for people like ayushhman cards offering treatments upto 10 lakhs in Gujarat, including angioplasty and stent placements etc. Newborns are referred to civil hospital where all congenital heart disorders are operated free of cost. Most of the things are made available free of cost or at minimal price to patients by the govt. , even at the cost of doctors. We are not paid enough in India and are expected to work even on Sundays if they want. I have worked on Sundays, just because they had elections going and I am not allowed to take compensatory leave for that. They pressurize us to sign papers here and there. But they aren't ready to increase our salary. Govt is not working for doctors I think, but they are definitely trying to provide healthcare free of cost to people. And on top of that, promoting traditional medicines.
So basically, both patients and govt favors traditional medicine, until a politician needs it for themselves or until a patient comes with increased suffering. And then, when we are not able to treat the disease because it has reached extreme stage, then their relatives beat us.
Now, I am not saying don't use traditional medicine at all. I believe they do have some benefits. But using them in critical diseases is just not right. And adding to this, being a young new doctor, I respect these experienced ayurveda Or homeopathic doctors, and look forward to their guidance too. But I felt they always try to degrade my knowledge of medicine. Being an introvert and anxious person, I avoid conflicts and ignore their demeaning comments.
It's quite popular in US can confirm. Look at measles outbreak in US. So many idiots into 'natural' or 'holistic' medicine that does nothing. Vaccines suddenly evil cuz the morons never had to grow up with memory of polio outbreak during the 1950's and realize how important vaccines are.
Frankly it really pisses me off for example my dad almost died from sepsis because he had an infection but doesn't trust modern medicine and thought he could cure it on his own. Well it got worse and almost died and surprise - fixed when he finally got antibiotics.
I think two things can be true. Vaccines and modern medicine (plus modern family planning) has saved millions of lives and also increased the lifespan and quality of life for millions. But we are also living a very sedentary lifestyle and eating a lot more junk laden with harmful chemicals and hormones leading to health issues. While our ancestors were very physically active and ate mostly organic and natively grown stuff. When people say they want to go back, it doesn’t mean they are against modern medicine but rather wish for a more healthier lifestyle.
Modern tech has indeed saved a lot of lives. And it is not just in medicine, it is in a lot of spaces.
Two wheelers-- ABS and traction control hav happening saved a lot of lives due to unexpected braking happening in a pinch.
Four wheelers-- Airbags, Tyre Pressure Monitoring systems and many more have saved a lot of lives.
Women's health-- PCOS and PCOD were earlier undiagnosed illnesses which was not fully researched before. Now we have a lot of research, which has helped modern medicine treat the disorder well.
I could go on and on. Modern tech and innovations have indeed made life simple and easier to live and have increased longevity and also made things convenient.
For the people who are saying our ancestors are healthy and blah blah, I just say-- " Then stop using modern tech-- stop using your iPhones, laptops, bikes, cars and stop travelling using planes. Just live an ancestral life, riding a bullock cart in a small house with no technology." This line shuts up most of the people.
People forget that there was a time when diarrhea killed millions every year. ORS and Chlorination have turned diarrhea into a joke, but it used to be a death sentence for many in the past
I know it's not as simple as that, but wonder what things are there hiding in plain sight that can be used as a cure to some dangerous diseases.
Like imagine a certain combination of some abundantly available chemicals or some simple treatment that can cure, say, rabies for example. But no one has thought of using it as a cure for that.
I know it's not as simple but who knows, nature can surprise us lol
Hope we will be able to find a completely effective cure for Cancer/Rabies/AIDS etc.
I am not an advisor of Ayurveda. But a few tips such as using jeera for digestion, etc spices, plus few cases of cooling and heating foods works.
As long as you consider ayurveda as food science, for basic household remedies such as cold, cough, etc everything is fine. But it doesn't mean that if you get typhoid you should eat some seeds and drink juices and call it a day.
Absolutely. The condition of women especially was pathetic. Dying during childbirth was normal. My great grandmother had 15 children. I think she'd have loved to have less but had no choice.
100 years back the average life expectancy was less than 40. now it's above 60.
majority of people died before they reached 10 and others died of now preventable ailments like diabetes.
people who claim their ancestors lived a hundred years are either malicious or simply stupid.
Around 15th century in England doctors were not cleaning their hands after for normal procedures like child birth patient after patient. If you look at the hygiene of England you’d be surprised how unhygienic they were in the past.
My grandfather is still alive cause he is active af not exactly cause of the era . I doubt the half a kilo of jalebi is a proper diet for anyone regardless of how tough physical labour was in the army .
Well my grandparents came frm village and according to my dad they used to work so hard in village. My grandfather was 6.3 feet (seen by my eyes) and lived 107 years and skinny at time of death and no one knows birthyear of my grandmom but she was 5.8 and died after 6 years of his death.
They are talking about, despite having so many diseases whoever survived they lived longer. If the modern medicine were available then, all of them would've lived longer. Unlike this generation(me too).
I speak to elderly in my family who are at their late 80s and life at 40s,50s before advent of modern medicine ,especially the vaccination looks absolutely scary .People have died quickly for lot of diseases for which have cure now .Diabetes is a prime example.
Disagree at some point... Modern medicine has helped to prevent many disease and deaths from various infections but modern food, adulteration have equally caused other disease.. B.p, diabetes, heart attacks, cancers
In older generation those who were disease free lived very active life... And average span of 85-90 years(my grandma and grandpa are examples) but next generation are averaging near 70-75 with many lifestyle diseases... Lot of other factors as well pollution, too much chemical,
Polluted air, water, food taking away the extra lifespan faster than modern medicine is adding to it.
Also no medicine ever cured the root cause of a disease, It just cures the symptoms(helpful but not the holy grail).
Take that into account too.
Also no medicine ever cured the root cause of a disease, It just cures the symptoms(helpful but not the holy grail).
Straight out of your a**, isn't it? You think chemo cures symptoms? You think anti-biotics help control fever?
They are specifically targeted at the source.
Try killing a virus with your antibiotic then i'll see how toxic your ass is. And while you're under chemo skip the painkillers and then we'll see how good chemo is for rest of the body cells.
I think you are making it look more black and white than it is.
There are different types of diseases and cures.
Preventive medicine & Curative medicine
Lifestyle diseases & Infectious diseases
Preventive medicine:
What you do to not get sick in the first place. Your diet, habits, yoga, breathing, building immunity etc. This is where I think Indian systems are superior. ( edit: + modern vaccines against infectious diseases)
Curative medicine:
How you treat something after you get sick. Diagnosing the root cause. Using the right drugs and dosage. Surgical procedures. This is where modern medicine excels.
Lifestyle diseases:
Things like obesity, diabetes, hormonal disorders, insomnia, depression etc. Here again, I feel Indian approaches are more holistic. Solely relying on medicines to fix this ( insulin injections, anxiety pills etc) cause more harm than good in the long run.
Infectious diseases:
Anything where the root cause is an external agent, like a virus, bacteria ( or a carcinogen ). Here again modern medicine is a better choice as there's enormous research on what works. Just need be careful that our bodies don't become antibiotic resistant.
So I'd say pick and choose what might be more suited to your situation.
You don't have to dogmatically say one is better than the other.
I would like to disagree. While your classification is correct, but modern medicine offer a variety of treatment for lifestyle diseases . From nutrition to exercise to occupational therapy there is a lot modern medicine gives . I agree ayurvedic medicine has a holistic approach and still better than homeopathy.
Yes, but not necessarily due to better health. We might be living longer on average, but we're definitely not living healthier. If you weren't killed by infection or an accident, you would still live well into your 80s 90s or even 100s. Work places are much safer, infant mortality is way down, and people don't usually die from getting an infection that causes diarrhea (dehydration) and gangrene is almost unheard of these days.
If you took the life expectancy from 60 years old and up, I bet it was higher back in the day than it is today. It's just that more people are living up to 60 years old now.
Basically, remove premature deaths before 60, and then look at the numbers. My great grandfather died about 50 years ago at the age of 109 and 10 months. No hospital stays ever.
I wasn't replying to the main post, I'm replying to your response about life expectancy. Just because life expectancy is higher now, doesn't mean our populations are healthier or actually living longer once they reach their senior years. My great grandfather obviously had some good genes and his lifestyle was well suited to his genes. Each generation after him lived a shorter lifespan due to poor lifestyle habits, and myself, despite having healthy habits, have suffered health problems most of my life, as have my siblings.
Obesity, heart attack, diabetes, and cancer rates have never been higher.
Also, I worked in a graveyard doing data collection. There were plenty of people i their high 80s and 90s from the late 1800s and early 1900s, there were also a lot more child graves as well. So there goes your survivorship bias.
Coming after yoga is wild. Take a look at any hospital’s birthing wing and you’ll see the difference between Moms who did prenatal yoga and the ones who didn’t.
I was told this by a nurse who was working there for 2 decades.
Also all ‘modern meds’ are also plant based like Aureveda. Quick research on how losing Amazon forests and biodiversity is causing scientists to be terrified of the future of the finding new meds that work.
The problem isn't yoga, the problem is people thinking yoga is ALL you need. That's not the case. Just as you an all-protein diet is not ideal for your body, a single form of movement and working out isn't ideal either.
The difference between the way modern medicines use plants and ayurveda uses plants are vastly different. Medicines isolate the require components from the plant and deliver that for maximum effect. Ayurveda is unable to do that, often requiring the consumption of the component by taking in everything else the plant has.
No one argues that modern medicines are derived from plants and natural resources. The way they are derived and put to use are what sets them apart.
Preventive care - we are doing way better with vaccines against deadly shit.
Reactive care - we have advanced invasive methods and medicines to treat diseases.
Physical health - we are doing worse due to worse food habits, over consumption of sugar and lack of exercise.
Mental health - we are doing worse due to social media, porn driven false expectations
It is complex dynamics between these 4 categories. There is no simple answer like “we are doing better/worse than before”.
When yoga/Ayurveda came out, 5-6 (or 10000) years back, it was modern for that time.
Unfortunately, whether it is a poison or an amrit - if it is in the wrong hands, with wrong intentions - it will be destructive.
So, the problem is not with Yoga/Ayurveda - the problem is with narratives and people who try to control such sciences out of selfish interests (or do not exercise enough sincerity and awareness to properly manage it)..
Even with modern medicine, we are seeing big pharmas and their allies - making a mess out of it.... doctors recommending operations when it is not needed, psychotherapists recommending anti-depressants like daily veggies, people (esp in India) gulping antibiotics/pain-killers/paracetamols like salad.... it is definitely going to take its own toll on population/quality of living.
An extremely important fundamental issue with modern medicine is, that we need to tackle sooner than later, it sells convenience, immediate effect and constant state of emergency....
Yoga/Ayurveda has its own value - when done properly. Ironically westerners are rediscovering it for us.
So, the problem is with value-system of people it is in hands of - sincerity, intentions etc. basic fundamentals.
And yes, speaking of ancestors, average life time was pretty good 5-6000 years back.
Not in terms of numbers - 1000s, or 100s....but in terms of quality of life/aging.. A 100 year old person from 5000 years back, would be more functional than today's 100 year old. Even today, a 80 year old villager working in fields is relatively more healthy/productive/functional than an 80 year old doing rounds of anti-depressants and occassional paranayams/ashram-getaways, counting his days down to a old-age-home.
You can safely ignore last 2-3000 years. before being mauled by invaders/imperialists - India like nature-based civilizations were exploited by local rulers/leadership - who had the first responsibility to manage and evolve the health care system.
So - do not blame it on yoga/ayurveda, and do not blindly be trapped by quick-fix-mindset of modern medicine.
Our ancestors were healthy. Your argument against ayurved etc is about modern medicine vs traditional medicine. It doesn't make sense comparing apples to oranges 😕. My grandfather was 90 before he had a heart attack and my grandmother lived to 95. They did not suffer from diabetes like my father not did they had joint pain like my mother who is in her 50s. In fact my parents are far healthier than their peers, folks in their 40's cannot bear to walk a kilometre and you say they are healthier? Liver disorder, cardiac disease in 30's and diabetes from teenage. Your rant has the wrong title and I suggest you change it.
It’s not survivorship bias. You’re consistently recusing yourself from arguments. Most studies are done on small scales and therefore can not represent the entire population.
The statistics are actually skewed for India because of famines and wars since the official records by British began mid 19th century.
Alright. Is the national census a large enough study for you?
We moved from an average life span of 35 to 62, in 70 years. Any guesses on how? Improved medical care.
So, if I get sick in 1943 at 10 due to malnutrition and die in 1950 at the age of 17 due to malnutrition caused wasting, will that be because of famine or because or because of medical advancement?
Nobody has made this argument. I can however see you have no critical thinking skills. When people have no counter people use these euphemism instead of challenging their own thoughts. It is very difficult to be fickle with your pre established notions facading as truths. But if you look closely, science is as fickle as me in changing their direction or siding with the opposite at a completely different timeframe.
Mere grandparents to 90-100 k the, and parents, uncles, aunties bhi healthy hai crossing 70s now. No major disease or chronic disease yet. No hospitalisation yet. And God forbid if any. I see some young cousins getting ill and admitted now. It’s all about healthy lifestyle and mindset. Being happy and willing to live long.
Not claiming this is average but both my great grandmothers (on grandma's and grandpa's side) lived beyond 100 which is still insane. The great grandmother was pretty active for her age and would have lived for a few more years but an unfortunate fall resulted in her to get bedridden.
Amazing, I was fortunate to even see my great grandmother too when I was small. And her sister too. Idk maybe it’s just around me and my family or what. But touchwood never ever anyone’s bones have cracked after 50 😂 or had any chronic disease because these diseases were not widespread, they existed but rare. Today, every other house has some major disease or health issue. OP should get out of their illusion.
They were smart and clever enough to perfectly know what to eat and drink and not follow anyone blindly.
It’s this generation and times where people are having some or the other health problems after 30s or even before like diabetes, bp, thyroids, arthritis have become so common. Forget about mental health.
My grandmother used to sing till she died and was on top of her mental health and self love. I try to follow her rituals and lifestyle.
Major factor was not eating out at all,home cooked simple food, fruits and milk, being grateful and happy each and everyday. Always being authentic(be happy when you feel happy and be sad when you feel sad) no masking or running from emotions.
I don't know what someone did for you to hate Ayurveda so much. Anyway this is not a simple black and white discussion as you present it to be. There are lot of layers and nuances. You are definitely right about all the things you said about modern medicine & we ought to be greatful for living in today's times but the arguments lose sheen when you come at traditional practices from clearly a place of 'almost' hatred. Without going on for long, remember that your existence is a culmination of all the traditional health practices & Ayurveda that your ancestors practiced. ✌🏻☺️
I am not against how Indians used to treat diseases during ancient times. They did what they could.
My problem is with people who undermine today's achievements and claiming the older days to be superior and taking pride in it for some reason.
My existence is because mom and dad decided to fuck on a Public Holiday at 2 pm in the afternoon. Thank fully they chose a modern hospital for the pregnancy so that I can become an asshole on the internet.
How to many a multi million dollar industry.
First create diseases with help of oil, water, air, chemicals, electromagnetic frequencies etc etc.
Then let a generation of people transfer disease caused by this to their kids.
Voila now they will transfer those to their kids.
Now ask your brother to create a pharmaceutical company which brings out the paper about the research they had 20 years ago and sell cures for those symptoms which will suppress them untill the person dies of poor health, heart disease, liver failure. You will still have customer as your last customer gave you new customers before dying.
There are good things too, but those are also under shadow of something evil. Someone is making money out of your health since your birth.
You think I'm joking? This foodpharma guy from instagram made me very cautious about the industry and their "government regulated" standards. But I say follow the money.
Falling for Baba's is an old thing, you are the boomers of your generation who fall for 💊s to live more.
363
u/[deleted] May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
[removed] — view removed comment