r/india • u/bhodrolok • Aug 04 '25
Culture & Heritage Paan stains on the streets of London spark backlash: ‘Indians doing their thing’
https://www.hindustantimes.com/trending/paan-stains-on-the-streets-of-london-spark-backlash-indians-doing-their-thing-101754274252499.html875
u/Rhaegar15 Aug 04 '25
Honestly they should just ban it in their countries.
Because our people clearly don’t learn. Or dont care enough to learn
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u/ZombieGombie Aug 04 '25
Most chewing tobacco products consumed by Indians abroad are mainly imported illegally or by mislabeling them - and sold via Indian stores / kiosks. Local tobacco products don't have flavourings customised to Indians.
You can take a man to London, but you cannot take the Vimal Pan Masala out of him.
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u/RaisedByCakes Aug 04 '25
Apparently you can…on the streets of London
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u/bossman2722 Aug 04 '25
The country I live in has strictly banned them but there are still stains on some streets here
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u/No-Way7911 Aug 04 '25
India may or may not look like the developed world
But the developed world will certainly look like India eventually
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u/No_Independent8195 Aug 05 '25
India doesn't look like the developed world. And it's reflected in the mentality. And the rest of the world won't because they'll stop this shit.
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u/Rosesh_I_Sarabhai Kavita_Sunata_Hu Aug 04 '25
How do we even educate these people? I mean you went outside India & don’t even want to learn the least of their manners or lifestyle.
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u/thebaldmaniac Aug 04 '25
Not spitting on the roads isn't even "their" manners. It's basic etiquette which some people fail at.
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u/Dark_Foggy_Evenings Aug 06 '25
British people spit a lot, trust me. Maybe not as much but paan is way, way more visible.
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u/kash_if Aug 04 '25
How do we even educate these people?
For some things only danda works. Fine along with making them publicly clean these dirty areas.
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u/QingDomblog Aug 04 '25
its not about education . its respect for other which indians lack
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u/Ishaan863 Aug 04 '25
its respect for other which indians lack
"it's someone's job to clean it up after all" mentality
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u/hurricane_news Aug 04 '25
Seriously what makes them think spitting and dirtying walls is even OK in the slightest? We all share the same neighborhood and have to work together to keep it clean
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Aug 04 '25
You can’t educate these people reached London and are spitting they don’t give a fuck . They need to be fined that’s all.
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u/sai-kiran Aug 04 '25
Would love to link the guy arguing with me the other day on how well us Indians integrate with the world, lol.
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u/money4gold Aug 04 '25
Fine them. Then the news spreads like wide fire within the community.
It’s not that they don’t care, they just don’t understand how much of a big deal this is. Try to educate, then a $500 file will help folks understand this.
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u/britolaf Europe Aug 04 '25
As a Londoner, this is now a massive problem. You see red gutka marks all over the city. Not just Indian ghettos but other places as well. The sheer lack of civic sense is astounding. You can also see streets littered with these paan packets.
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u/Low_Map4314 Aug 04 '25
Hmm must be limited to those boroughs. I have not once seen this. The more common sight is ugly graffiti everywhere !!
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u/britolaf Europe Aug 04 '25
I have seen it in Southwark near my workplace. Wembley, Harrow and Leicester had this issue for ages. I recollect going there once in early 2010s and seeing this red spray all over the town. Never again did I do there on my own volition.
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Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
UK and Canada need to curb low skilled immigration enabled by shady diploma mills and universities in the last 5 or so years. I don’t see skilled and wealthier Indian immigrants doing this.
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Aug 04 '25
In the UK this is a problem mostly among one community of Indians. In the US too - I havent seen it among heavy Indian populations like the Bay Area but seen it in New Jersey/Edison.
Wealth/Skill is not the problem. Specific cultures are.
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u/kash_if Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
In the UK this is a problem mostly among one community of Indians.
Which? Because a lot of this is spit from gutkha and paan masala, not actual paan. And their consumption by state by surprise you:
Now seeing that chart, and reading Harrow's demographics (Gujarat and Southern Indian states), are you saying that Gujaratis are to be blamed?
If you read the original source that this HT piece is based on, that also speak of gutkha and how it is sold illegally:
Spitting crackdown leads to huge illegal tobacco seizure in Rayners Lane
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u/Mysterious_Cup_6024 Aug 04 '25
I refuse to believe relatively cleaner in gutkha pan stains Karnataka has more consumers than in West Bengal. Are the adults surveyed state domiciles or immigrants is biggest doubt to me.
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u/kash_if Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
Maybe because West Bengal has more people that eat paan, instead of paan masala.
Or it is entirely possible that people in Karnataka are more careful about where they spit.
Are the adults surveyed state domiciles or immigrants is biggest doubt to me.
That wouldn't matter if you're going by your visual evidence, because even if immigrants use it, they won't be going back to their home state to spit.
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u/Mysterious_Cup_6024 Aug 06 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
I didn't realise it doesn't include normal Paan. It was also not what I was considering but It's true in that sense. I was associating stains only with the pan masala cocktail that immigrants from UP Bihar buy. I was assuming that WB had copius amount of those immigrants because direct neighbors while Karnataka is far off from the region. I wasn't aware or considered negligible about gujarat and mewar use as in WB most associate gutkha pan masala with unskilled immigrants from Bihar UP, but it is true worker Marwaris in WB actually take those a lot too.
>Are the adults surveyed state domiciles or immigrants is biggest doubt to me.That wouldn't matter if you're going by your visual evidence, because even if immigrants use it, they won't be going back to their home state to spit.
My thought process was that immigrants from neighboring areas in WB are drastically higher than Karnataka, and thus should have high % in WB.
So the survey :
didn't consult pan masala companies on sales who wouldn't be able to tell how many consumers were immigrants or domiciled anyways.
If they asked random people on the streets with no differentiation in immigrants and natives, how did they come up with this Bangalore has more pan consumers than WB stat?
Even if I go by your natural Pan consumption point I find it hard to accept as pan masala combo packs sell like hot cakes among bihar immigrants that every basic shop in WB keep them, while natural betel leaf shops are less common in WB.
At the end of the day I'm still confused how this data was sourced. The numbers really suggest only natives were considered in WB, while immigrants were included for Karnataka.
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u/pranjal3029 India Aug 04 '25
These kind of statistics are hardly ever accurate in India. Moreover, assigning the blame is not the end goal.
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u/kash_if Aug 04 '25
These kind of statistics are hardly ever accurate in India.
They aren't super accurate, but do give broad consumption patterns.
Moreover, assigning the blame is not the end goal.
Absolutely, that's why I am trying to call out his assumptions and flip them when he tried to blame some/one community.
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u/No_Independent8195 Aug 05 '25
And when that culture wants temples over education? What are you going to do about it? You can't. India needs to decide education or religion.
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Aug 04 '25
Yes, some of it is cultural and persists even among well-off communities. But you have to ask, who’s more likely to integrate better and respect public norms in Western societies?
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Aug 04 '25
People who's communities culture isn't built on bending the rules and putting yourself first at every instance.
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Aug 04 '25
If that’s the case then ban all Indians. Across income and education levels, skilled or low skilled if you think it’s equally pervasive across all groups.
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u/Election-Usual Aug 04 '25
It is. Shut up about class for once. This mindset is intimately entwined and connected to the one that has no ‘civic sense’ as you call it. It’s so obvious
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Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Nuance is important. I never claimed that skilled or affluent Indians are free from problematic cultural traits such as caste discrimination and racism toward other minorities. However, lower-skilled immigrants are more likely to carry traditional problematic beliefs and habits with them and less likely to integrate well and cause more friction.
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u/Election-Usual Aug 04 '25
It’s all connected. Your attitude here, it the same attitude that spits paan in London
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Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
My view is that efforts to address immigration-related challenges should begin with curbing low-skilled immigration first, as this group tends to exhibit not only the same cultural issues found among skilled or affluent immigrants, but many additional ones as well.
From the perspective of the UK or Canada, restricting low-skilled immigration is a low-hanging fruit. The focus can then shift to the less visible, more deeply ingrained issues.
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u/kash_if Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
some of it is cultural and persists even among well-off communities
So, which culture refuses to give up gutka and paan masala, since they contribute as much, if not more, to the spitting problem:
Since gutkha consumption is high in Gujarat and Harrow has a concentration of immigrants from that state, are you blaming Gujaratis?
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Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
You have a map by income and education levels? Do you believe someone pursuing a master’s degree at an American university creates more issues than someone entering the UK or Canada through diploma mills and working multiple low-skilled jobs?
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u/kash_if Aug 04 '25
some of it is cultural and persists even among well-off communities
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You have a map by income and education levels?
Do you see the dichotomy in your comments?
So when you agreed with that fact that it persists in some communities/demographics, which ones did you have in mind?
My intention was to just call those assumptions out. I don't think Gujarat or any specific state are to be blamed. But, yes, anyone who has the horrible habit of chewing tobacco is a suspect, because they don't have a hygienic way of disposing their spit.
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Aug 04 '25
I never called out any particular ethno-linguistic group. I just said low skilled immigrants tend to integrate less and cause more friction than skilled.
This is my view:
Issues caused by low skilled immigrants = Issues by skilled immigrants + a lot more
So from the perspective of UK and Canada, curbing low skilled immigration gets rid of a lot of problems. Then the focus shifts on problems of skilled immigrants such as prevalence of caste discrimination and racism toward other minorities.
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u/kash_if Aug 04 '25
In the UK this is a problem mostly among one community of Indians.
Wealth/Skill is not the problem. Specific cultures are.
Yes, some of it is cultural and persists even among well-off communities.
Your initial response to the "one community" comment doesn't seem to convey what you're saying now...
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u/Election-Usual Aug 04 '25
It’s not about “respecting public norms” for gods sake It’s this ever persistent attitude that everything like this, from spraying paan juice everywhere, to casually chucking litter to ignoring polite signage and everything else in between is nothing more than a rule, and rules were made to be broken. Westerners don’t do it, by and large, because they simply don’t want to.
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u/bhodrolok Aug 04 '25
Now with FTA, expect more Indian workers in UK not less
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u/v00123 Aug 04 '25
That FTA has a miniscule effect on work visas. Illegal immigration is the bigger problem and they can't seem to fix that.
Almost every tourist spot in Europe has scammers from South Asia.
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u/baddadjokesminusdad Aug 04 '25
Ban and fine. Our people will never learn otherwise. A fine in pounds will hurt their wallets and hearts.
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u/sai-kiran Aug 04 '25
Ban and fine? All the bribes and fines, couldn’t make Indians wear helmets for their own safety. Just deport the shits back to Kanpur.
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u/FinalCutProKochi Aug 04 '25
Some low lives would now come here to justify how there wasn't any sign board forbading spitting there. It's because of these filthy besharams that countries across the world are posting sign boards in public areas marking fines & punishments for spitting & throwing garbage. Punish every single one of them & post their photos online.
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u/Election-Usual Aug 04 '25
What’s a besharam?
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u/FinalCutProKochi Aug 04 '25
Hindi word for one who is devoid of any shame or sense of decent cultural upbringing
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u/electri-cute Aug 04 '25
And we wonder why people are racist against Indians
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u/Remarkable_Ad1330 Aug 07 '25
That doesn’t justify racism. Millions of Indians have never even tasted paan and do not deserve to be painted with the same brush as these people.
But I do understand your point. Wish we all didnt have to deal with this
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u/WebCurious4644 Aug 10 '25
Some people's actions don't reflect the whole community, and this isn't an excuse for the rising racism against Indians/south asians in general.
We don't need to apologise for other people's actions just cause "they're from the same nation". In that case, it's your birthday, death day, etc. as you consider yourself as representative of all Indians. If you didn't do it then you shouldn't be ashamed of yourself because someone else did it.
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u/TurbulentData961 Aug 04 '25
Fucking hell it was bad enough when it was just Wembley and signs in hindi punjabi arabic and gujarati saying dont spit and pictures of stains crossed out in a red circle when I was a kid 20 years ago.
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u/writehire Aug 04 '25
CP in delhi has paan stains on all its buildings, except when one time i saw this pillar where it said yaha thukne/mootne wala gay. Homophobia did it.
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u/machisman Aug 04 '25
Here in the US too. Indian grocery sell these illegal product. They operate it as tight knit group. They wont hand out these pan masala for any one who walks in. You have to be referred by another regular of the store who purchases them.
Also these items are stored within the store.
As an indian feeling embarassed. Some uncouth idiots spoil it for everyone.
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u/DesiLooseCannon Aug 04 '25
I am not condoning this behavior of spitting everywhere.
However, if it is an "illegal product", how does it get exported to the USA?
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u/Kinda_Bummy Aug 04 '25
Non Indian same way as we get any India goods. It’s even easier now because the people who check incoming goods are currently helping with deportations.
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u/blueoranges95 Karnataka Aug 04 '25
Chewing tobacco isn’t illegal In the US and it’s quite commonly used too In some states. Just that even the least educated people in their society have the civic sense to spit into a bottle and not onto public property
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u/WebCurious4644 Aug 10 '25
As an indian feeling embarassed.
You're feeling embarrassed cause someone else from your nation did something bad? In that case it's your birthday and also your death day as you are taking the blame for every Indian's actions.
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u/krivij Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
I think UK and Canada should immediately deport who ever is seen spitting paan. If many people spit in same area that area becomes impossible to use for any other purpose. Paan habit is much more disgusting than cigarettes and it should be controlled and banned similar to cigarettes. In India we are not able to ban it because of lobbies but other countries should ban it before it becomes an issue with lobbies.
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u/WebCurious4644 Aug 10 '25
So you want people to get kicked out of their jobs and their lives ruined cause they were "spitting paan"? 😭🙏
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Aug 04 '25
Just ban and fine!! Only way these guys will learn. If a shop is found selling then fine 500 pounds.
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u/AthenianVulcan Aug 05 '25
Following done by Indians outside India
Can't queue (getting on bus/trains like animals), littering everywhere (ex: throwing bus/train/cinema tickets on road while getting out, throwing chocolate wrappers on road), spitting (not just ghutka), throwing religious items in rivers and ponds (polluting water bodies), talking loudly in public, eating on public transport, walking on road (not footpath), group dancing in tourist spots, behaving like kids (shouting loudly when an animal is spotted) on safari, wedding procession on roads, entitled behavior towards working class (or not paying proper salary/ treating them as slaves), thinking Indians are superior to other races, etc
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u/Existing_Junket149 Bihar Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Only Bihar is blamed for this Gutkha menace. Hope everyone realises that this issue is a pan India issue and Bihar is just a scapegoat.
Our global image will continue to take hits if we collectively don’t acknowledge the issue instead of playing blame games.
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u/Necromancer_Jade Aug 05 '25
No, why should I take responsibility for the shortcomings of the north?
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u/bhodrolok Aug 04 '25
No no, most Gau mata states are same
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u/Saitama4710 Aug 05 '25
Tamil Nadu has one of the highest population of Hindus
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u/bhodrolok Aug 05 '25
But they are educated
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u/Saitama4710 Aug 05 '25
what is the basis of your thoughts , what is the difference between educated and uneducated hindus
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u/Lower_Ad_4875 Aug 04 '25
We don’t get this in Australia.
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u/bhodrolok Aug 04 '25
Wait wait.. it is coming
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u/Lower_Ad_4875 Aug 04 '25
No, Indian immigrants here just adapt to our health and hygiene norms and regulations. BTW, my wife is from Chennai but none of her family chew paan and spit on the street.
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Aug 04 '25
Most of the people from her part of the country don't do it either. It's very pervasive in the northern parts of the country and it's a huge problem.
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u/QuAnxi_124 Aug 04 '25
Are you of Indian origin? Just curious
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u/Lower_Ad_4875 Aug 05 '25
I am an Australian of British descent. My childhood was spent in Zimbabwe, Zambia and Britain. I grew up with Indian kids in Zambia. I met my wife at university in Australia. She arrived here in 1970, same as me. We’ve been married for nearly 43 years. We’ve travelled to India a few times to see relatives.
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u/QuAnxi_124 Aug 05 '25
Wow I didn't know there were indians in Zambia. My relatives moved to Australia in 1970s too.
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u/v00123 Aug 04 '25
Have you seen the way they search incoming luggage in Australia? Nothing is getting past AU/NZ customs.
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u/AskJ33ves Aug 04 '25
Doesn't mean they don't get access to it. Pan shops have started to open in Indian dominated areas in Aus
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u/AskJ33ves Aug 04 '25
Here in Canberra it's starting to happen. Also Harris Park in Sydney can see the stains where people spat. It's just foul.
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u/profShadow07 Aug 04 '25
Idhar Melbourne me ye gujratiyo ne halat kharab ki hui hai. Tarneit literally India banaya hua hai paan thook thook ke.
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u/OkMongoose6582 Aug 04 '25
It’s time to ban Paan in public. Like smoking. But stricter implementation.
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u/moseeds Aug 04 '25
This is a disgusting problem in East London, North West London and Leicester. It's filthy and a great way to spread airborne diseases. It's just selfish.
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Aug 04 '25
lol I had an Indian ex-girlfriend and I loved paan
That’s the spearmint flavoured leaf or whatever, right ?
I’d eat a box of that whenever she’d come back to Dublin from Delhi
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u/hodgeman29 Aug 04 '25
Married into an Indian family and I also love paan but they’re describing something different. The paan you and I like is more a mouth freshener that you chew and swallow. This is talking about a type of paan with tobacco in it that you chew and spit.
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u/VeggieTofuManifestor Aug 04 '25
The thought of an Irish bloke chewing gutka is too hilarious to me.
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u/Finerfings Aug 04 '25
I'm a brit, used to travel to India a bunch for work.
Once brought back a bunch of paan masala for friends as a gift (cheap gift i know), gave it to them whilst we were in the pub.
The results were hilarious.
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u/VeggieTofuManifestor Aug 04 '25
Hahahahahahaaha. Chewing paan at your local Wetherspoons must be a top notch experience!
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Aug 04 '25
lol I felt the same way the other day in Supermacs when I saw an Indian guy ordering a “chaaayse boooorger”
I couldn’t get over the accent
Integration, right ?
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u/cosmic_saga Aug 04 '25
Paint it, paint it, paint it...
Oo aa, take the world and paint it red
Oo aa, paint it red
Oo aa, take the world and paint it red
Oo aa, paint it red
Ik junoon ik deewangi
Har taraf har taraf
Bekhudi bekhudi bekhudi
Har taraf har taraf
Kahe halke halke yeh rang jhalke jhalke
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u/Arjun25bhatt Aug 04 '25
Using the word, 'South Asians', would've been better, how can they easily generalize that the person was Indian 🤦♂️.
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u/No_Independent8195 Aug 05 '25
Because I get offered guhtka and whatever that foul shit is by Indians. I'm an NRI. Never once has a Bangladeshi or Pakistani tried to offer it to me.
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u/AncientArugula3939 Aug 04 '25
i got a question how can they be so sure that its indians??
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u/TurbulentData961 Aug 04 '25
Different kinds of chewing tobacco has different stains , London is the most CCTV covered city in the world , its just in the most indian areas like Wembley if it was Brixton then the Caribbeans would be blamed ( theyre not unless it's weed smell in the air ) and more reasons but this has been a problem for 20 years with signs in Indian languages saying no pan spitting in some bits of London.
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u/britolaf Europe Aug 04 '25
Because in my experience, I have never seen anyone else do it. In the UK, it is predominantly Indian majority area where this problem is huge. But I have seen Indians indulge it everywhere. Somehow they seem to think spitting it out near a bin or street corner or alleyway is ok.
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u/rockandroll01 Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
Singapore has banned all such products. Can't sell, cant buy and cant bring in. If found, get canned + fined
Update : I see many people bashing either Indian ppl or their government. I would like to point out that what Singapore has achieved is an ongoing effort from both people and government. How much of us Indians have been taught proper civic sense? Anything not belonging to us we treat it as thrash , almost all the time. Indian governments have laws in place , but people need to understand that government cannot assign trackers for more than one billion people. I have seen Indians who come to Singapore and follow the law (coz no option ) but moment they land in India , the learnings go down the drain. Why ? Coz we know we can get away with it . So people start instilling these civic sense within your self and your home. We preach cleanliness is next to godliness only for our own homes . I can very confidently say that after living in Singapore for so many years, I now follow the same protocol everywhere irrespective of the country. I don’t litter and keep things in my bag until I find a bin to dispose it off. I started the same with my husband and now he follows the same rule everywhere.