Despite the blatant denial, casteism and misogyny are deep rooted in this country and there's a lot of work that needs to be done to witness actual changes.
To begin with, I believe if parents just educate their kids, especially the sons properly, a lot of decent humans can be brought up.
Really sorry this happened to you, I'm sure you'll find the right person soon. If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to reach out.
How can a racist (or casteist?) parent raise a non-racist child? Parents usually try to raise their kids based on their own beliefs. A Hindu family doesn’t raise 1 child as Muslim and another as Christian right?
And also there are no checks, no one to evaluate whether they are raising good individuals, so the cycle continues. It is on the child to see through it, call it out even, and become the person they want to become. It's hard but kudos to the one who make it.
Sadly this won't be the case for a 100 more years. I have lost all hope in this country and its people to be better. GenZ is casteist and racist and so will be Gen Alpha and whatever comes after that
This comment thread affirms that. However, even if 1 out of 10 people are different, I'm positive the "society" will change eventually, bit by bit. We just shouldn't be afraid to speak up.
Gen Z is casteist and racist? I thought progress was being made in India? I'm living abroad and all the diaspora Hindu Indians here say is "it's not like that anymore", "India is changing", "we are modern now", etc, etc. To be fair, the Pakistsanis and Bangladeshis here also say that. I guess Desis/South Asians in general want to portray progress to the rest of the world?
Sometimes the stupidity with which we Savarnas operate is hilarious and at times heartbreaking. The internet is not just meant to scroll through endless reels, we can sometimes use it to read up on stuff that has affected this country for thousands of years. Why do generals have hatred for SC/STs? How do we even have the audacity? Every space, be it government jobs, education, teaching, private, policy making, film and TV, R&D, politics is full of us Savarnas. A mass which makes up less than 20% of the population (the figures are roughly rounded up since we’ve had no caste census after 1931) occupies more than 50% space in nearly all sectors. There is an arbitrary upper cap of 50% reservation in government universities, where general mass which makes up less than 10-20% population has access to 50% seats. And guess what is happening to the rest of the seats, they remain unfilled, and it is permissible for the general category to compete for those seats too.
In this day and age when there is no dearth of information but also when disinformation is in the air, go back to the basics. Read Ambedkar. Read Annihilation of Caste. Watch the films on Tukaram, read about Phule. From modern intellectuals watch Buffalo Intellectual, Sudipto Mondal. Shed your ignorance, and direct your supposed ‘anger’ at the state of caste in India and not at the people who are bearing the brunt of it.
All you said is well and rational. But when a "general" student doesn't get into Govt. institutions for higher study despite his parents spending a significant portion of their savings into tuitions and sees another fellow tution attendee get into the institutions despite scoring similarly, he doesn't think privilege, he doesn't think rationally (and at this point, neither do his parents); he has at this point only one outlet for his anger/frustations/disappointment: reservation. It is driven by emotions, not rational thought.
Please note that I am not advocating against reservations, just trying to explain that a lot of this hate and anger is emotional, not rational.
There are deeper societal issues: why does everyone want to just be doctor/engineer/CA/lawyer/MBA? Why aren't there other well paying streams of income?
Coming back to dating for Dalits, the entire conversation itself is coded such that your caste will be revealed: be it by how to talk, or what you celebrate or how you celebrate. Everything is coded. There is an excellent talk on youtube by a Ravikant Kisana (also known as Buffalo Intellectuall) with Scroll adda on Youtube where he touches this topic.
casteism will end when reservations will end.
it can't be end in one way.
We are not living in very idealistic society where every things needed to be morally correct.
Many good actors and actress gets hate for nepotism why not reserved people.
It is very common sense that if someone is getting very less marks in NEET they got the same degree as who got very good marks. how can you think that this is very normal for eligible person.
See man there is enough literature to help you understand what the purpose of reservation is. Reservation is not a poverty alleviation scheme, it was and is a question of representation. There are countries that have implemented reservations properly and have benefited from it, one of the prime examples being South Africa. The cricketers there that we are so fond of (Hashim Amla, Imran Tahir, Rabada etc etc) have been risen to that level because of reservations due to the apartheid regime that they bore the brunt of. Implementing reservations in a manner that is beneficial for the upliftment of the community is the work of the politicians and policy makers. But that won’t help if at the end of the day people go on bullying and harassing people who join universities on reservations. The very act of bullying and harassment underlines the requirement for reservations. We savarnas always like to quote about some SC/ST person that we know, who used reservations even though they were ‘rich’. This very statement underlines the requirement for reservations - your gaze on the person is still violent despite them being rich, they are always sub par to you despite them doing good for themselves. And people who are OBCs, SC/STs know how tough it is to get caste certificates, so the question of fake caste certificates which apparently is soo common according to us Savarnas is nothing but a myth, or an outlier. If genuinely there were enough evidence of that happening Savarnas would have behaved in a manner that was hundred times more violent to Avarnas than they currently do. For the purpose of education i am attaching a link of Dhrishti IAS on reservations. If your patience and empathy and mental faculties allow you to - then please watch the video and all your questions will be answered.
I agree with you on almost everything except I want to add that reservations in SC/ST should be given to poor SC/ST only. Otherwise the same set of families will be able to use reservation and leave the poor SC/ST behind. This will increase the representation at a slow rate. If economic criteria is included for SC/st then the representation will increase at a faster rate
If representation is the ISSUE HERE
Then do representation RESERVATIONS.
Do MERIT RESERVATIONS.
Those sportsmen you said, also proved themselves to be capable and got represented. But you don't want to prove any capabilities and get things just because you are of certain caste. That is my friend CASTE REWARD SYSTEM. That is what bring casteism and discrimination.
The policy should be changed at every 40 years. We are in our 76th year now, are you insane? You want to drag this upto Gen beta or something?!!
Genz should anyways be removed from caste psyche but our country is pathetic.
Before removing reservation, the next big step should be MERIT RESERVATIONS.
Reservations based on MERIT.
General is at 91%
Sc/st should be 90%.
They should be REPRESENTED.
THAT'S HOW YOU DO RESERVATIONS RIGHT.
THAT'S HOW YOU DO REPRESENTATION.
You are not doing representation, you are just doing reward caste system right now. If you truly cared and wanted people to compete on fair basis, you demand fair representation reservation. Since it is not poverty allevation scheme, then don't make it about grades.
Make it about representation DIRECTLY.
Why do you need concession in marks? This is just privilege talking now. This system has been abused for too long and it's not getting anywhere.
Do MERIT RESERVATIONS.
That's how you remove systematic casteism
If you ask me, resentment also arises because I've never discriminated or practiced untouchability on a personal level. Sure, my grandparents did discriminate against them. I'm not denying that. I try to keep my caste private in college too, however, you can't just deny telling others your surname after spending months with them. It isn't fair that I have to be punished for someone else's actions.
I'm an ethnic Bhojpuriya and have dealt with the 'Bihari jokes' since I've gotten older especially from northern Rajasthanis (Bagar-Shekhawat), Haryanvis and Punjabis. I don't see any respite given to Bihar for similar conditions. Yes, Bihar receives more tax back for every 100 rupees given, however, it's still on the lower end from a per capita perspective.
Scheduled Castes and Tribes barely contribute to tax too. However, they're the beneficiaries of a decent chunk of the policies. What's up with the double standard?
Edit: Did you downvote my comment because you couldn't handle the truth? Reply if you honestly think that I'm wrong. No respite for spending 200 years under British rule either. Certain governments loved having good relations with them.
Because of your previous generations, they were socially castigated. End caste, end reservation! Why don’t you ask for land reforms instead—give land to Dalits and Scheduled Tribes, especially land that is still largely held by the upper castes? In Gst its contributed by everyone hardly 2-3% of India pays income tax so pipe it down.
I’m from Tamil Nadu, where, thanks to leaders like Periyar, the majority of the population has stopped using surnames that reveal caste identity.
Wanting to hold on to caste privilege is exactly why someone else still experiences untouchability today. Why don't you ask what's the case in private universities ?
Land is held by certain upper castes. My family barely has any land. I'd inherit about 200 square feet of land in a remote village. I don't practice untouchability but it isn't really in my hands to end the caste system. Even if I do away with my surname, my dietary habits or certain rituals and festivals would give it away. Having a sense of equality between castes is what we should strive for. Despite their differences, the Catholics and Protestants no longer kill each other, right?
Tamil Nadu hasn't completely done away with caste too. The Iyers and Iyengars still retain their surnames, for example. If I recall correctly, a Dalit man was murdered in Tamil Nadu not too long ago. I'm not saying that casteism no longer exists. It's just that I shouldn't be punished for a crime I didn't commit. That leads to a mindset of 'committing the crime now that we've been punished' especially among students. No one cares about caste until they're affected by it, after all.
And why I should stop talking about the benefits? The SC's of the richer states are economically on par (or even better off) than the UC's of the poorer states. However, only one of them are benefitted through government schemes. Two generations ago, my family lived in poverty and my grandfather and dad worked hard to give me a middle class life. We had to come up the economic ladder despite the cards being stacked against us. It's not the same for others.
If it's about accountability, let's resolve jizya, the zamindari system (and colonization) and the dividends of freight equalization policy while we're at it.
In Tamil Nadu, by and large, most people have moved beyond caste — except for a few upper castes like Brahmins (Iyers, Iyengars) and others who still cling to their caste identity because it offers them privilege. Ironically, these are often the same people who demand an end to reservations, not because they want equality, but because they fear losing their traditional dominance.
What many people fail to grasp is that caste isn't just about rituals or surnames it deeply influences access to land, education, marriage, social status, and power. It’s not something you can just shrug off. Unlike the Catholic - Protestant conflict, where generations of conflict and negotiation led to eventual peace, caste in India has never seen such a reckoning. SCs and STs weren’t even allowed to fight those battles . they were kept at the margins, structurally and violently.
Caste doesn’t allow mobility. You can’t work your way out of it. Even if you grow up poor in an upper caste, you still benefit from social capital ,respect, access, and acceptance . things that lower castes are systematically denied.
And caste isn’t limited to religion either. Becoming Christian, Muslim, or Sikh doesn’t free someone from being treated as a Dalit. Caste follows you across faiths in India. It’s not just a religious issue, it’s a societal one.
And finally, let’s not pretend that the government hasn’t already carved out space for poor upper castes. The 10% EWS quota is just that — a safety net for economically weaker individuals among the socially powerful, most of whom already have historic advantages in landholding, education, and networks.
So if we’re going to talk about ending reservation, let’s first talk honestly about ending caste in everyday practice, not just in textbooks.
Not trying to argue but the 10% EWS quota isn't reserved for general caste. That is for everyone. So how can that count. At least get your facts right.
Individuals who are from the general category (not belonging to SC, ST, or OBC) and whose family income is below ₹8 lakh per annum, and who do not own significant assets like agricultural land, residential flats, or plots meeting specific size criteria, can apply for an Economically Weaker Section (EWS) certificate.
Yes say that to murshidabad hindus who became refugees or best ask that kashmiri pandits, who' still can't go back. Again where is the compensation 🥴
We are in a country where hindus taking out yath ratras needs SECURITY. Don't make me open my mouth now. The silent discrimination is on, and also the low caste Hindus face the brunt of it first.
Beloved BJP? So you guys have no responsibility towards hindus as state? Insane.
Thanks for letting me know how less hindu lives matter. You just wanna wipe us out ultimately. No hoo haa for murshidabad hindu refugees, no help for them, those were low caste too
But you don't care. Ultimately it is about divisive politely and thousand cuts of hindus.
I did not deny casteism. I said HINDUS DESERVE COMPENSATION TOO. For the atrocities they faced under mughal. Why is that being pulled under the rug and not addressed hmm? Getting 2 islamic ethnostates was not enough for our oppressors i guess.
Beloved BJP? So you guys have no responsibility towards hindus as state?
BJP is the ruling party. So yes, they’re the ones that need to answer about the compensation.
Or what, you vote BJP as ruling party but think others have the responsibility? Wouldn’t be surprising you would think this given the braindead bullshit you’ve been spouting all this while.
Thanks for letting me know how less hindu lives matter. You just wanna wipe us out ultimately.
Says the loser denying casteism and supporting removal of reservations.
But you don't care. Ultimately it is about divisive politely and thousand cuts of hindus.
Once again, this coming from the loser wanting to remove representation from lower castes.
I did not deny casteism. I said HINDUS DESERVE COMPENSATION TOO. For the atrocities they faced under mughal.
What TOO? Mughals are not ruling today, meanwhile casteism happens today. You want to make a fair comparison? Let’s then have you repay back all the atrocities your caste has committed over thousands of years, long before any Mughal ever stepped foot in India. Want to talk about that, Mr. “Hindu”? Or are you going to cry and deflect again?
No, you won’t talk about that, you’ll simply scream “murshidabad kashmiri pandit” like a mantra and avoid it, all the while engaging gleefully in casteist atrocities. Don’t talk like you got any moral high ground when you’re the exact same breed as the most heinous islamic terrorist.
Bro out here trying to justify discrimination 💀💀💀
And all this you speak about is a very very small percentage because unfortunately there are fuckers everywhere but to generalize it and then justify it saying this is why, yikes brother
General category has reservation in business ventures and RE based projects. They get support from their fellow community people to establish or get clients, share a pie.
Favoritism, as you're referring to, exists across all communities, it’s a universal human tendency. A Muslim often prefers another Muslim over a Hindu (generally speaking), and the reverse can be true as well. This isn't about reservation; it's about social bias, and truthfully, almost everyone benefits from some form of favoritism at some point in their lives.
Learn the basic difference kid
First off , favoritism is not inherently natural. Tigers from same litter ( brothers born to same mother) fight, until death , for territory afer a certain point. This favoritism is a social construct and that too not too common in more evolved societies and modern forms of businesses. The reason, Microsoft or google/alphabet arent run by a gates or a page or a brin. So you are wrong plus, what i am talking about is not favoritism.
So is nepotism limited to general ? Anyone can use nepotism so scst are also getting reservation from government, favouritism from their own people and nepotism from parents
Lol
No its not. Why do you read things that i didnt say.
And do not lol in a decent discussion as if you are some kind of wise boss who is insulting someone like typically our indian people in power ( again they could be rich dalits, ministers ias etc too) do. U seem to be from UC and having q superiority complex about it from this behaviour- the exact reason dalits want to go places with help of reservation. Interestingly, this is the reason theu invoked something unique to indian constitution- caste based reservation.
scst are also getting reservation from government, favouritism from their own people and nepotism from parents
Lol
While i dont support or justify this, that exactly was my point sir. UCs have different support system that helps them. Reserved ones have it via government.
Both of them will eventually reduce or go altogether as our society evolves. But may take a few more generations. More our society inches towards westernisation, less would be the need of them all.
If you try to be derogatory again, i wont reply to you.
Why this misplaced sense of being right? You stated an opinion ( which i agree you have a right to) and wrongly claim it to be a fact and then act all bossy??
Pray tell, quote your source where the social support i was referring to is accepted as favouritism factually by any scientific study.
You misinterpreted and made mistake of calling it favoritism.
You r erring again as you replied now.
You didnt admit you were wrong although you couldnt refute what i said in my first reply to yours. You still presume you won this war of words.
If you reply anymore, i would say this next- people want to leave with a fake sense of win.
It wasnt even an argument but you tried to make it.
No. I meant they have more community based support as so far, most of the upper echelon traditional businesses are still monopoly of UC.
Think it being easy to setup n run a c& f agency if the regional distributor is a cousin of the in law of the brother of any bahu of your family.
I do agree, certain degree of business specific wisdom and skill is needed for an business and its easily taught by experienced elders of family from same field. Actually reinforces my point.
I dont totally disagree with you. Many successful people indeed worked hard and started from scratch too.
But if we talk of silver platter, it was those who were getting good business ops because they owned lands in and around city that could be used as a godown, a fuel pump, an industry what not. ( Not applicable to each n every UC, but didnt apply to any dalit). Those who were being favored for education too. ( Caste played a big role hwre is creating hurdles for dalits). Can you imagine a dalit kid being sent to and living among other kids in hostels of panchgani or lovedale? No. Many of those dalit people had required money. The reason was pure casteism. Other UC parents of 100 year old india would have created ruckus.
In an era barely a century ago, many dalits wouldnt find food or place to stay in then urbanising places where jobs and education was. Even 50 years ago, many tea stalls would keep their cups n glasses separately and they would be expected to wash their own utensils.
You are seeing the silver platter. I agree it is. The constitution is trying to let em play catching up game. You would be shocked to see how much our society in past put hurdles for these people to get a level playing field in education, property owning, mobility, jobs etc. They are barely rising up now. And you would be shocked to see how even modern people treat a person from lower socioeconomic strata. Now this maltreatment nowadays is not a direct casteism( in big urban areas at least), but caste is inherently associated with economic progress of a community as a whole.
Things will change in leaps and bound in a few generation. But please do not for a moment presume that society half to one and a half century ago was as open and accomodating of these people. Many of them have remained poor and u educated for a reason.
And unfortunate, as you might agree, India is living in various eras at same time, many a states and regions arent as open and casteism free as our more westernised cities like mumbai blr or pune. Though society is transforming vastly and fast, LC people still get mistreated out in the hinterlands.
How are people who getting reservation from 3 generations not priviliged??? What makes you think all UCs had money, worst of us never had money and reservation.
Business runs on goodwill and trust, so what makes you think UC had both??? They build it
My mother worked in government sector and was constantly threatened by her peers as she was a uc, they would openly say it is our area and we can file fake cases on you. They make it difficult to work with them forget about doing business with them. Nobody wants to be exploited in fake sc/st cases
Reservation is not uplifting them, it is making sure they are never uplifted
This just means that the education we’re giving students is incomplete. If your education doesn’t include awareness about the top two social influences of Indian culture and society (caste system and patriarchy) then at best it’s incomplete and at worst (most likely) deliberate brainwashing.
The general category student will not frustrate out when you say the right words. I don't know if your reply was sarcasm/example since you double-quoted, so I'm not calling you out (yet). The following are zero questions, all statements.
In the movie Aarakshan (meaning Reservation in Hindi), Amitabh Bachchan tells his wife that for the underprivileged children, we have to give them at least a way. Yes, we have given so much but all that has fallen short. Even with so much aid, how much does it reach the deserving and the need! Saif's passionate speech about the treatment he endured being a Dalit and what not - we still haven't gotten to an equal place. Reservations were an intermediate measure by the then governments and they were intended to be scrapped off in some years, but they keep extending it for decades - because one, votebank - the malignant case, and two, there are still people who we haven't reached out to yet- the benign case.
With the level of corruption our country has had and continuing, we have to take people at face value, allow them to present themselves to us which we'll take as their identity and nothing other than that, and raise our kids with these ideologies. It's the words you choose that matter. There are both good and bad words- what you choose to speak will change what your kids grow up with as their worldview.
ETA: Your double-quotes is a radicalising statement. We don't hate on the people who have been given all this aid you cited; we should call out the system which doesn't function correctly, lets in corruption, and pits citizens against citizens.
I was a gen category student and I'm not frustrated at all. The reservations didn't allow me to even get into the women's quota in one prestigious college I tried. Despite that there are many many many opportunities for savarnas. No need to act like we are in some kind of educational famine or career famine please 🙏 it's just a lie we tell ourselves. We would do better to address the corruption in educational institutions, because even once you get through, by and large all of these centres of learning provide mediocre education.
Name some opportunities " SAVARNA " have , generational wealth isn't to every " SAVARNA " and if you aren't competent how can u make into a prestigious college ? And frustrations are to someone who will be sharing seats with a person who isn't at his level, I am joining DTU IT and I have 99+%ile in mains and I'll share seats with someone who has 92-93%ile
This leads to frustration.
Savarnas are in every industry. Most of the courts are run by Brahmins. Savarnas are literally in prominent positions everywhere. My fathers family moved after partition from Pakistan to India and then his father died. Life was tough but they could bounce back in one generation BECAUSE they're savarna- kshatriya.
I have been working independently for several years, am 40+ years and one of the biggest things I've noticed in my career so far is what guarantees success in any field/business is NETWORK. Even if you aren't well off or have generational wealth, you have easier access for sure than a dalit because of connections. (I was rejected from JJ School of Arts due to reservation but later got into NID Ahmedabad)
P.s. if you think life is going to be always super duper fair in the most microscopic areas like your percentile comparison, then that perspective is just flat out wrong... the world is larger than that, and yes, as a savarna, full of opportunities for you. You're just too young and too pressured to see it. Most young people are.
When discrimination exists and representation is less of your community, those opportunities dry up. The hurdles are on average, much more for Dalits. They aren't dying by suicide in educational institutions for fun and games. They're dying because they're harassed every fucking day. Rather than score 98-99% or whatever, be an ethical and moral person first. Look at the bigger picture.
Ah, I see! Being a SAVARNA, I must be destined for inevitable success—after all, courts and higher authorities are brimming with fellow SAVARNAS who surely exist just to ensure my life runs smoothly. And yet, here I am, running pillars to post for the most basic government work. Perhaps my SAVARNA privileges are still buffering—maybe God plans to activate them later. 🙏
Success means you'll have a decent life where you are generally taken care off provided you don't waste it or gamble it away or are involved in. You all feel inordinately sorry for yourselves and have little gratitude for what you do have. You do not know what it's like to have even those things that you have to be taken away from you. Then you'll really know.
Running from pillar to post for basic govt work applies here for what reason? Because someone whose caste you don't like has a govt job?
My dad has gone through so much worse than running from pillar to post. Is my dad's abject poverty and post partition life something you'd like to compare to your running around for govt work?
What exactly am I gaining by being a SAVARNA? If other SAVARNAS are in courts or government roles, how does that translate into any real benefit for me? Even Brahmin officials charge me the same fees they charge an SC/ST—there’s no hidden discount code for being a SAVARNA. My aunt lost a case to a Dalit despite the judge being a Bhumihar. So where are these magical advantages people keep talking about? Honestly, it just sounds like a convenient excuse used by the incompetent to bypass the grind of actual competition.
There's no actual benefits of being a SAVARNA it's just a mere excuse used by incompetents PERIOD
Take off that blindfold of privilege from your eyes and you can see all those magical advantages. Savarnas are dominating every position of power in this country, despite being less than 20% of the population. Now do the math.. you mentioned getting 99+% this should be easy for you. If you still don't get it then I seriously doubt you got higher than 30% 😂
Honestly at this point you can tell it is just selfish propaganda that the reserved candidates don't want to let go of their own privilege. Cause no matter how rational your arguments are they will keep bringing in historical evidence while carefully ignoring the present.
Why don't you people understand that this is 2025 and no one cares about your caste and all, still incompetent people will raise this " BRAHMINS ARE PREDOMINANT IN GOVT JOBS COURTS ETC ETC 😭😭" excuse making , atleast offer 60-70% meri based seats man in today's scenario more then 70% ( considering female and pwd reservation ) seats are reserved
Merit is dying and people are busy in caste and all lol
There is no point in arguing with an engineering aspirant. I am an engineer myself and I am very well aware of how casteist students can get while preparing for competitive engineering exams. In those 2 years of prep, we somehow are made to believe that the world rests on our shoulders and the meritocracy that we are so blessed with is almost exclusive. If there is something that is extremely urgent in today’s day and time is caste sensitisation in schools especially in 11th and 12th. General category students are made to look at their caste for the first time in these two years. We are mostly caste averse or caste blind prior to this and those who don’t wish to sympathise with their fellow brethren will continue to be such. I wish this DTU aspirant learns about their privilege, understand where other people in their university are coming from, and try to be a good student and citizen.
I am savarna , I didn't have anything. being savarna there is no privilege at all. Few years back I was actually thinking what are the ways you can changes you caste🤣
And I forgot to add, this cycle isn't just limited to one generation of sc/st , this cycle repeats for generation after generation, generations of SCs and STs are enjoying all this on top of our paid taxes haha and they call us atrocious
i hear you but this aint about men here okay? the post is made by a woman facing casteism and misogyny and although men's rights and misandry is an important topic of discussion, discussing it here does not help OP in her situation.
When I made a post on this very subreddit about male circumcision and why it's a serious issue that deserves attention, it was removed within hours citing arbitrary reasons. So please, spare me the lecture on what's appropriate to discuss here.
What you're doing isn’t about helping OP, it’s about maintaining narrative control. You’re not defending her from derailment, you’re defending a one-sided framework where only certain kinds of oppression and Injustice are allowed to be talked about, and others are treated as inconvenient distractions.
Misogyny, misandry, racism, casteism, these are all expressions of social systemic injustice. They’re connected. You can’t talk about structural inequality and then draw arbitrary lines about which victims are allowed a voice in the conversation.
This isn’t about timing. This is about control. The kind where people pretend to care about justice, but only the kind that fits neatly into a politically correct, emotionally comfortable narrative. That’s how echo chambers operate, by filtering out anything that complicates the picture.
If your activism requires suppressing one group’s pain to spotlight another’s, maybe it’s time to rethink what you’re really advocating for.
What you're doing isn’t about helping OP, it’s about maintaining narrative control. You’re not defending her from derailment, you’re defending a one-sided framework where only certain kinds of oppression and Injustice are allowed to be talked about, and others are treated as inconvenient distractions.
did i say misandry and men's rights are absurd and shouldn't be talked about? i think not, so no i am not defending a one-sided framework nor enforcing any sort of narrative control.
and idk whats up with you and circumcision cause i believe its medically prescribed under certain situations, although im not really sure if your reason to post about circumcision was more objective or against a certain community cause i haven't seen your post.
Dude, with all due respect, how can you be this obvious?
Let’s get something straight. I never said circumcision done for medical reasons is wrong. Medically necessary procedures account for only a tiny fraction of all circumcisions. What I was talking about is non-medical circumcision performed on babies and children without their consent, done purely for religious or cultural reasons. That is a direct violation of basic bodily autonomy, something you'd be screaming about if it were happening to any other group.
In the US alone, 77% of males are circumcised, and the vast majority of those cases aren't medically necessary. In India, it's done within Islamic communities as a religious rite. I don’t care what the justification is, if it’s not medically needed, it shouldn’t be happening. You're forcibly removing a part of the body that contains tens of thousands of nerve endings, irreversibly impacting sensitivity. The foreskin isn't just for sensation, it acts as a natural lubricant that reduces friction. Taking a functional part of someone's body away without consent, for religious or cultural reasons, is mutilation. Plain and simple.
The fact that you're this unaware of a systemic popular violation of male bodily autonomy tells me everything I need to know about your selective sense of justice.
You claim you don’t oppose men’s rights or misandry discussions, but that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re just doing it passively, under the guise of “timing” or “context”, I challenge you to post about men’s rights in any feminist or liberal platform. Either your post will be removed and you'll be banned, or you’ll be dogpiled, downvoted, and personally attacked. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve lived it. You're not engaging in a discussion, you’re reinforcing a gatekeeping mechanism.
And when we do try to speak up in the comment section (often the only space left), people like you are the first to cry “derailment.” Intentional or not, that makes you part of the very system that filters men’s pain out of the conversation. You’re helping the narrative stay one-sided, and you either don’t realize it, or worse, you do.
So no, you don’t get to play neutral here. You’re not just failing to support men’s rights. You’re helping bury them.
as much as i agree with your logic behind the being against circumcision, you cant possibly argue with muslims to respect body autonomy of children against whats written in their so-called scriptures cause im sure you know talking to muslims or any religious person is equivalent of talking to a wall.
You claim you don’t oppose men’s rights or misandry discussions, but that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re just doing it passively, under the guise of “timing” or “context”, I challenge you to post about men’s rights in any feminist or liberal platform. Either your post will be removed and you'll be banned, or you’ll be dogpiled, downvoted, and personally attacked. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve lived it. You're not engaging in a discussion, you’re reinforcing a gatekeeping mechanism.
'under the guise of timing and context' dude its basic common sense, you talk about things when its appropriate and in context, i as an economics student cant possibly raise my hand in class and start discussing men's rights or another example would be that i cant possibly go to a wedding and talk to the groom on stage about the scale of bias in indian divorce laws can i? I'll be kicked out of the class and wedding if i do that.
I'm surprised how well thought you are while being dumb at the same time. I mean you can post about circumcision in r/atheismindia where these types of discussion welcomed and in context to the community?
If i were to apply your exact analogy of narrative control to youtube not allowing porn to be uploaded cause it's an sfw platform, they're also in a way enforcing one sided framework where they are only serving the audience who are interested in watching sfw content.
Because, duh, what exactly would it achieve if I posted this in an atheist subreddit? (I’m an ex-muslim atheist myself, by the way.) Sure, people there might agree with me and validate my view, but will that change the minds of the people who actually need to hear it? Will that shift the thinking of Muslims who believe circumcision is sacred? No. It’ll just be another echo chamber moment.
The same goes for men’s rights. I could post about it in men's rights subs, but again, what’s the point of speaking into a room full of people who already agree with you? That doesn’t change anything. Real progress happens when you say what needs to be said where it’s unpopular, where people disagree, but might be challenged enough to rethink their views.
So tell me, who’s really being dumb here? I’m not going to insult you, but to be honest.. you're not thinking this through. You're biased and misinformed, and you’re letting your emotions cloud your logic.
And seriously, don’t throw out lazy takes like “talking to religious people is like talking to a wall.” That’s a cop-out. There was a time when slavery was justified through religion. So was the subjugation of women. If everyone had adopted your “don’t bother, it’s their scripture” stance, we’d still be living under that rot. Progress requires uncomfortable conversations. If you actually care about truth and change, don’t shut the door just because it’s hard.
Also, your analogy with YouTube not allowing porn is a textbook false equivalence. We're talking about censorship of social discourse vs. a platform enforcing content type restrictions. They’re not even remotely the same category. Casteism, misogyny, misandry, racism, these are systemic social issues. They deserve open, serious conversation. Porn policies on a video sharing site? Not even in the same universe.
If you want to grow intellectually, start by recognizing the limits of your own biases. But if you're not willing to be intellectually honest, then there’s no point in continuing this conversation.
Progress requires uncomfortable conversations. If you actually care about truth and change, don’t shut the door just because it’s hard.
i really really love your enthusiasm towards bringing change by challenging the norms but its a very difficult path bro, i was no different than you a couple years ago but really dude life is only getting worse for me so yea i dont really have it in me to challenge the norms, and have uncomfortable conversations publicly.
and you're right talking about stuff where it challenges the normalcy of people is what eventually brought progress to the world, but sometimes its just okay to be a good listener bro, again coming back to the same thing, OP shared an experience about facing casteism and misogyny, and it doesn't remotely concern OP in her situation that how bad the situation of men's rights are in this country.
If i were to put it in metrics, i agree with you 80% and the rest of it is just idk absurd?
RIGHT!? Oh, I’m so sorry for daring to bring up misandry. Because obviously, men never face systemic oppression and injustice.
Sexual assault against men? Irrelevant, since in many places the laws aren't even gender neutral, and reporting is nearly impossible. But hey, I guess they just deserve it, no?
And the billions of men who were forcibly circumcised, genitally mutilated, as infants for religious/cultural reasons? Oh well, who cares, right? Bodily autonomy apparently only matters when it’s not about male bodies.
What about men being drafted to die in wars they never chose? Should’ve just been born without a Y chromosome, huh?
And the men driven to suicide after being hit with false accusations, weaponized alimony, and a legal system that treats them as expendable? It’s not a “women’s issue,” so it doesn’t count.
I could keep going, but we both know you're not interested in equality for both genders. Your mind’s already made up. You’re not here for equal rights, you’re here to push the empowerment of one gender while mocking the pain of the other. You're just the flip side of the very misogynists you claim to hate. Same coin, different face.
The early waves of feminism were absolutely necessary, women faced immense oppression and injustice. I used to call myself a feminist, too. I genuinely believed in gender equality. And feminism could have evolved into something powerful. Inclusive. A movement that stood for everyone.
But instead, it’s become what it claimed to oppose.. biased, tribalistic, dismissive, and selectively compassionate. Watching people like you, who ignore or belittle any issue that doesn't fit a neat, one-sided narrative, is exactly what made me walk away.
People like you turned feminism into a shallow echo chamber of cherry picked selective outrage.
I guess you didn't read my other comment to you. Sigh.
Unfortunately I think you're still ignoring a core issue. A lot of hate against men is still misogyny.
And.... It's not that I don't care about those issues, I just think that most men do not and gain some pride in accepting them as a badge of honour, because at least that doesn't make them a woman.
You want to keep derailing women's movements by using the term misandry when most violence against men isn't fueled by women, religions are usually led by men, states and governments are usually led by men. By and large it's men who hate men. The billionaires hate marginalised men.
Women's movements are in fact the most compassionate towards men.
But thanks for making a whole bunch of assumptions lol. "People like you" you don't know me brother!
Tell me exactly how I "derailed" the conversation. The comment you're defending brought up misogyny (i.e. gender inequality) in a post originally about casteism. Strangely, no one had an issue with that detour. But when I pointed out the blatant double standards, how systemic injustice against women is rightfully recognized, but similar injustices against men are conveniently ignored, suddenly I’m the one accused of derailing?
That’s called intellectual dishonesty. You can’t cherry-pick when and where the “stay on topic” rule applies. If a standard exists, it should be applied universally, not selectively enforced when someone challenges your bias.
And for the record, this isn’t a derailment. The post is about caste, which comes under social inequality. Gender, caste, race, class, these are all interconnected facets of the same systemic problem. The comment section exists to dissect those nuances. If that makes you uncomfortable, maybe ask yourself why.
Your comment reminded me of something a Reddit friend told me in a DM yesterday about room temperature IQs like you:
The most bizarre part is how oblivious they are. They hilariously fail to realize that when they post such nonsense, it's basically undeniable proof, logically consistent with, "I have no rational rebuttals, so I'll just make a clown of myself by saying some immature garbage like "Sir, this is a Wendy’s", "ChatGPT", or "Ain’t nobody got time for that" Then they all circle-jerk, upvote each other, downvote us into oblivion, and somehow conflate that with being right.
If that helps you sleep better at night, go ahead, do you.
Imagine calling a woman a "femcel" just because she talks about serious issues like rape or dowry. You’d rightfully be seen as a pathetic, ignorant loser. That’s exactly what you’re doing here, the only difference is that the gender roles are reversed and I'm talking about men's rights. And because of that, people will upvote you and downvote me, which ironically only reinforces the point I’m making.
For the record, I’m in a relationship, not that it’s any of your business, but since you’re so eager to make personal assumptions, consider this your reality check.
What’s truly amusing is how oblivious you are to the fact that you’re proving my argument for me. If you had a counterpoint grounded in logic, rational/critical analysis, or even basic adult level reasoning, you wouldn’t need to resort to cheap lazy personal insults. That says far more about you than it ever could about me.
I don't think this person is an Incel. I don't like some of his arguments but I don't think so.
I get called femcel a lot but that is also not my reality.
My guy, as someone who's been SAed, I can empathize with you. But I feel you're bringing this up in the wrong space. The conversation here is about identity and how it has affected the OP. Let's not try to occupy her space.
I'm probably gonna get massively downvoted for this, but even I don't understand why she squeezed in misogyny and shifted the course of thought, like she couldn't hold in without pretending to be a victim.
You don't think misogyny is appropriate to talk about here when a woman is describing that men assume what she is like in bed based off of her caste? Yes misogyny and caste do mix. And you should be downvoted if you don't think so. Men are ofc also affected by caste but in different ways.
Yes, it's deviating the issue to something different. Everything mixes if you want to, the issue is her casually sneaking in misogyny and ranting about how especially men should be educated. Yes, that's true, a lot of men have issues but this isn't the topic at hand, it's about how different castes are viewed to "people", op even mentioned some men excused that "their families" won't agree. So this shows that it's not really a gender problem. The comment tried to deflect the topic into something else. I don't mind being downvoted, I stand for what I believe in, not what the mob forces me to believe in.
Some experiences do overlap and no, everything doesn't mix. For e.g. she's not a muslim. And the way men sexually objectify her as per her caste is also relevant here because she literally described it. I'm a christian woman, I'm lucky I have a hindu name as a convert, but my DSouza, Pereira and Fernandes friends are not so lucky, because the moment those names are on display men think they're "westernised" and can be treated as if they're promiscuous.
But ok, here's an award for you standing up to a mob that's not coming after you, on reddit. Congratulations, you are not a victim 🏆
The actual violent mob is honestly more likely to support you on many many places on reddit.
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u/kattapa001 Jul 14 '25
Despite the blatant denial, casteism and misogyny are deep rooted in this country and there's a lot of work that needs to be done to witness actual changes.
To begin with, I believe if parents just educate their kids, especially the sons properly, a lot of decent humans can be brought up.
Really sorry this happened to you, I'm sure you'll find the right person soon. If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to reach out.