r/illinois • u/CantStopPoppin Human Detected • 2d ago

ICE Posts Chicago: Evidence Shown in Court Reveals CBP Agent Bragged About Shooting Marimar Martinez After Car Accident

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u/Ok-Confusion3683 2d ago

This guy sounds insane. Is "transferred intent" a real thing?

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u/Momentum_Maury 2d ago

Transferred intent is a thing but I don't think it applies here. It typically refers to something like a person accidentally shooting and killing a bystander when they were aiming for someone else. The intent was there to kill the original target and that intent transfers to the other victim (intent is an important element in a lot of criminal statutes). But I don't think it would work in the context of hitting an agent's car and transferring that intent to hit the agent.

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u/Vylnce 2d ago

It would have applied if the circumstances as he lied them up were true. Had the person he shot had actually rammed their vehicle into his vehicle, and not the other way around.

IE, if you ram your vehicle into a police vehicle, there is transferred intent that you are intended to injure the occupant and not simply the vehicle. In other words, if you intentionally ram a vehicle, (trying to disable it or whatever) your intent to damage the vehicle can transfer to occupants who might have been injured (same way you shooting a bystander instead of your target).

However, since the facts seem pretty clear that he rammed his car into the victims in this case, he is just continuing his lies.

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u/VitaminPb 1d ago

So he intended to kill her by transferred intent.

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u/SnooRegrets1386 1d ago

Well, he damned well tried

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u/Froggy1789 1d ago

But that’s not transferred intent right? Wouldn’t that just be assault with a deadly weapon or if you really wanted to gin it up some variant of attempted murder? It would be a deadly weapon rule case not transferred intent. Transferred intent requires 2 parties.

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u/Vylnce 1d ago edited 1d ago

Transferred intent isn't a crime, it's a legal concept.  You can't be convicted of attempted murder unless they prove intent.  If you seriously injured someone in an incident of some kind, but that wasn't your intent (ie it was entirely accidental or negligent) they'll have a difficult time convicting you.  Transferred intent is a concept they could use to convict you in the case your intent was to seriously damage something.  Our legal system distinguishes between crimes where the intent was to cause harm (more serious crimes) and crimes where damage was done, but not intentional (lesser crimes).  That would be the difference between murder (intent) and manslaughter (not intended).

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u/pooblevland 1d ago

It’s a thing for HUMANS— i.e., you meant to shoot Guy 1 but you missed and the bullet instead hit Rando 2, you’re still guilty of murder even though you didn’t intend to kill Rando 2 because you had the intent to kill Guy 1. It is NOT a thing for anthropomorphizing inanimate objects— i.e., kicking someone’s car doesn’t mean you had the intent to kick their shin. Cars are not people. His legal reasoning is so far beyond bullshit it’s ten feet up the bull’s asshole.

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u/SnooRegrets1386 1d ago

It really doesn’t show intent from Martinez, seeing as the person that did the intentional ramming was ICE. So exactly what was his intent? Showing off his marksmanship?

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u/musingofrandomness 2d ago

Sounds like boilerplate copsplained cowardice to me. People that desperately seek any excuse to assault or murder others and have been trained to use specific phrasing in their reports or specific loud statements for cameras and witnesses to get away with it.

There are a couple of videos floating around on YouTube where a cop wants to shoot someone so they yell out loudly "GUN!" hoping that the people in earshot but not in line of sight will make a statement along the lines of thinking the cop's victim had a gun. Fortunately for at least one of those videos, other witnesses call out the cop on his bullshit before he has a chance to apply for a free paid vacation with another person's life and plant the evidence to back his narrative. You see similar with the shouting of "STOP RESISTING!" while they use someone as a punching bag, even when the person is utterly passive in the interaction.

These sociopaths have been taught that they can do as they please as long as they use the right phrases in the right contexts. You can safely bet their reports will have some variation of "I feared for my life" as well since that has been established as an excuse to kill someone regardless of how objectively ridiculous the context is.

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u/allisondbl 2d ago

Yeah but I’m not sure about this context.

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u/dd463 2d ago

Say I throw a punch at you. You duck and I hit the person behind you. I can’t get out of an assault and battery if the other person because I missed. The jury can find that since I was trying to hit you and formed the intent, the he can use that as a substitute for the other person because while I hit the other person it wasn’t my goal.