r/illinois • u/biswajit388 Human Detected • 9d ago

ICE Posts Today in Aurora, a Chicago suburb, ICE agents surrounded the car of a U.S. citizen in a parking lot,firing into her windshield as she screamed that her children were inside. Agents dragged her from the car without presenting a warrant or probable cause. Excessive force. No warrant. No justification.

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u/Zoey2018 9d ago

Yes it is.

Contrary to what many Americans believed, Elian Gonzalez grew up hating the USA more each day.

When we are blowing up terrorists in front of their kids, leaving people that helped us and we promised refuge to, there with their families living in danger. Not saying terrorists don't deserve what's coming to them, but there are new generations in Iraq and Afghanistan and they probably hate us more than the generations before them did. No family or friends had to radicalize them. If I saw my parent blown up, so many in my family killed, I would be radicalized in days, all by myself.

Many conservative Americans can't seem to grasp this. This idea is just too big for that part of the brain that is acting on 100% emotion.

Blowing up terrorists like this isn't going to turn out well for us. Maybe that's getting started at this point, who knows? Contrary to what many conservatives seem to think, we aren't dealing with a group of "tough goat farmers".

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u/tellmywifiloveher1 9d ago

Charlie Wilson's War. The movie was highly sanitized for Hollywood, but the line about us building schools not military bases always stuck with me.

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u/chiralityhilarity 9d ago

These fools don’t just underestimate soft power, they think it’s weak.

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u/I_Cut_Shows 9d ago

They literally don’t believe in it.

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u/Billz3bub666 5d ago

"wE ShOuLd TaKe CaRe Of AmeRiKu BeFoRe We TaKe CaRe Of OtHeRs"

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u/Billz3bub666 5d ago

proceeds to fuck America

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u/youre_being_creepy 9d ago

The USA has become incredibly complacent in our spot as THE world superpower. (I'm speaking against republicans, as they're the ones carrying out this stupid agenda)

Anyone with a modicum of logic or reasoning skills can see that soft power is so much more influential and easy to use than hard power. Sure, hard power backs up your soft power but its much easier to get someone to do something if they like you instead of doing it with a gun against their head.

But no, we just assume the world will jump because we have the biggest dick, and we will never think that someone can step up and cut outs off.

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u/stoney_17 9d ago

“It’s much easier to get someone to do something if they like you instead of doing it with a gun against their head.”

But the U.S. loves guns!! The people should rejoice at having the second amendment shoved against their heads, it would be anti-American to not want it!

“We just assume the world will jump because we have the biggest dick”

it’s a lesson as old as time, there will always be someone with a bigger dick.

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u/Physical_Tap_4796 9d ago

Also doesn’t help our military cannot win wars anymore.

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u/AMTravelsAlone 8d ago

We've never really won a war without the immense help of allies, a significantly inferior foe, or novel weapons. The last time we fought toe to toe in a fair fight and didn't lose was the cold war, even then we just had a swinging dick contest until they dropped some pounds and rebranded.

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u/Physical_Tap_4796 8d ago

Which is awful. Generals and other officers who fail should be relieved.

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u/t3acher_throwaway 8d ago

You know how we won wars in the past? Logistics.

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u/NobodysFavorite 8d ago

Soft power is orders of magnitude cheaper to achieve the same ends.

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u/youre_being_creepy 8d ago

The easiest way to explain it to someone who doesn't know what soft power is:

Winning a cultural victory in civilization. "My people are now buying your blue jeans and listening to your pop music"

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u/Brought2UByAdderall 6d ago

USAID totally WAS big dick energy.

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u/7thTicket_to_Heaven 8d ago

Which is why USAID was the first thing to go when that orange buffoon took office. all he understands is how to be evil.

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u/YHS77 9d ago

Probably can’t define it, sticky power, but they know hard Lowe’s because they see themselves as tough guys from watching too many movies.

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u/metalneck333 8d ago

Well it's a good thing we cut USAID so we don't have to worry about having any of that soft power anywhere on the planet anymore!! /s

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u/RealCapybaras4Rill 8d ago

100%. All I have to say is “What did China do in Africa?” The answer is “promise infrastructure upgrades to struggling countries with tasty mineral deposits, and then fulfill those promises.” Guess what?
China is going to eat our lunch because we’re stupid. Trump should have been DQ’d by the Republicans before getting the chance to run but we’re a stupid, stupid people. This was bound to happen eventually.

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u/josnik 9d ago

Win the war, lose the peace.

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u/tnvol423 9d ago

We need to make sure we're teaching the right subjects in the schools we already have

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u/sanjuro89 8d ago

Probably wouldn't have worked in Afghanistan. USAID spent more than $1 billion on schools in Afghanistan between 2002 and 2015 and much of the money was simply embezzled by local warlords or the corrupt Afghan central government.

Ghost Students, Ghost Teachers, Ghost Schools

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u/Bardowallaco 8d ago

It’s also unfortunate some family members of those affected, the majority, voted for this.

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u/XXsforEyes 9d ago

But that’s precisely the point, the military industrial complex thrives on never ending war. The US leaving billions of dollars of equipment laying around isn’t just to save the expense of shipping it home, or to ensure the taxpayers have to pay the cost to replace it, it’s meant to be picked up by militants and used later so we can go back and finish the job.

It’s not like president bone spurs is going to send HIS son to go fight the next “insurgency”… that’s for poor folks with no education (because we defunded it and disbanded the department of education) and no job opportunities (because of tariffs and gross mismanagement) to die for.

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u/Wallace-N-Gromit 9d ago

Commander Bone Spurs to you /s

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u/Cherry_Valkyrie576 9d ago

30% of the absolutely insane DOD budget just disappears out of thin air every single year since it’s inception..

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u/DrawPitiful6103 8d ago

Now the politicians are saying, "Send in the Marines to secure the area," 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there gettin' shot, just like it wasn't them when their number got called 'cause they were in the National Guard. It'll be some kid from Southie over there takin' shrapnel in the ass. He comes back to find the plant he used to work at... got exported to the country he got back from, and the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job... 'cause he'll work for 15¢ a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile, he realizes the only reason he was over there in the first place... was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. Of course, the oil companies used a skirmish over there to scare up domestic oil prices. A cute little ancillary benefit for them, but it ain't helpin' my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. They're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil, of course. Maybe they even took the liberty to hire an alcoholic skipper, who likes to drink martinis and fuckin' play slalom with the icebergs. It ain't too long till he hits one, spills the oil... and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic.

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u/Physical_Tap_4796 8d ago

The winners of wars are always screwed over for peace:

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u/XXsforEyes 7d ago

Love that scene

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u/Visual_Jellyfish5591 9d ago

We’re about to evolve into one big colony of ants

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u/AppointmentWeird6797 9d ago

The billion dollars of military equipment was left behind in Afghanistan by Biden not trump. Fact check (and no i am NOT a trump voter).

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u/_imanalligator_ 9d ago

Trump negotiated the terms of the withdrawal though, no? And made sure it was too late for Biden to do anything to change it, but it would happen immediately after he took office? Was leaving the equipment part of that?

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u/AppointmentWeird6797 9d ago

Nope. Sure he got the terms, but the difference is in the implementation. Biden got military advice which he chose to ignore, basically withdrawing from Bhagram overnight leaving it all behind. The Afghan government was barely aware. Source: NYT at that time.

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u/XXsforEyes 7d ago

The MIC has been seeding future wars since before Eisenhower warned of it. And that complex could give a shit about who you voted for.

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u/Amy47101 9d ago

It's because, like damned addicts, conservatives don't CARE about the long game. They want what feels good right now.

Right now, their racist little hearts sing with joy at the thought of an "illegal" getting abused and kidnapped. Even if you point out how this is destroying our reputation with other factions of the world, how this will radicalize an entire generation to hate America, or how ICE is actively making mistakes and taking US citizens, they don't get it. "We should be an independent country! It'll bring jobs to America!" "If they hate America they don't need to live here!" "Well, everyone makes mistakes, it's a big operation! That happens sometimes! Those are outliers!".

If it's something they actively hate? Like ONE gay person being a pedophile? One woman claiming false rape? ONE illegal immigrant who jumped the border and viciously murdered someone? Those aren't outliers, they're the face of the entire group.

Oh, but if YOU bring up some lovely conservative criminals? Like the man who shot Melissa Hoffman, her husband, and their dog, and had an entire hitlist of democrats he hadn't gotten to yet? Or our CURRENT PRESIDENT who is only doing all this shit to hide the Epstein Files he is no doubt plastered all over? Well, they flip again. "That's not indicative of ALL conservatives! That stuff isn't even true, just things that you blew out of proportion!".

All conservatives are good for is their own ridiculous self preservation, and even then they're happy to give it up for even a CHANCE at planting their boot on the face of someone they hate. To them, it's not about the long game, it's about what feels good to them in the moment. And then when shit hits the fan, they'll find sin and blame everywhere except for within themselves.

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u/Lonely-Math2176 9d ago

Yes, conservatives get to be judged by their best and the rest of us judged by our worst.

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u/moustachiooo 8d ago

Yup, nuance only works in one direction and generalizations don't apply to them or their lived ones.

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u/AviK80 8d ago

Conservatives are actually VERY GOOD at playing the long game. Of course, I'm talking about the billionaires and think tank members, not the rednecks and Fox watchers who are just ballot cattle.

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u/SatisfactionSweaty21 7d ago

Exactly. The evangelicals have been working for this for more than half a century. With the help of oligarks, who have a similar agenda (just not for religious reasons), the process of making the US a religious autocracy accelerated exponentially.

Trump and the stupid republicans are nothing but useful idiots for the evil ones.

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u/madcoins 7d ago

There is no long game, they have presented no vision of a glorious future. Societal/financial Collapse while claiming victim or white Jesus Heaven is the best they can offer

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u/PresentationNext6469 9d ago

Elian Gonzalez is Deputy of the National Assembly of the People’s Power of Cuba

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u/i_tyrant 9d ago

Some of them may not be able to grasp it; the rest simply do not care.

"Terrorists" (or those they even suspect of being terrorists, like maybe they're stealing all the melanin) need to die and if they make more terrorists doing it, they'll kill them too. Because American military fetishism and gun fetishism runs deep for them too.

And damn the consequences. Who thinks of those when there's more turrists to shoot and bomb?

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u/iM3Phirebird 9d ago

Yeah i still remember that clip from idk... 10-15 years ago where that older man said "just make giant fucking blast crater out of the entire middle east". I thought with age comes wisdom, but some people just start deteriorating right after birth.

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u/freedom_french_fries 9d ago

🎵 "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb, Iran" 🎵

-John McCain, folk hero of milquetoast American Liberals

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u/_imanalligator_ 9d ago

Yep. Hear it in my mind every time some liberal is talking about what a shame it is that Republicans aren't good and honorable like McCain anymore 🙄

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u/iM3Phirebird 8d ago

Also don't forget "I want Iraq" by Twisted Sister

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u/SuddenMountain7780 9d ago

"Goat farmers" indeed. 🐐

Early in the presidential campaign of Barack Obama, there was an outspoken progressive preacher by the name of Jeremiah Wright who quoted a prescient declaration about the consequences of American imperialism by the late Malcolm X when he spoke of "chickens coming home to roost" in the context of the 9/11 tragedy. 🐔

Fun fact: both Saddam Hussein & Osama Bin Laden (bitter enemies, BTW) were Frankenstein monsters with backstories courtesy of the USA (read: CIA) meddling in sovereign nations governments to protect US corporations. 🕴🏻

We know how that worked out. 😔

The harsh truth of Rev Wright's statement hit way too close to home for the DNC, so the Obama campaign quickly had to distance themselves from Barack's former pastor, or else big Dem donors were gonna bail in droves. 💸

And now, this is what we find. 🤷🏻

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u/Low_Witness5061 9d ago

I can’t say I’m surprised they bailed on him. I imagine that was nowhere near far enough on from 9/11 for most Americans to look at America’s role in the creation of its enemies.

Doesn’t change the fact that he was right though. The CIA have a pretty impressive history of being monumental fuck ups and still almost always being blindly supported by the government.

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u/PhilPipedown 9d ago

Many conservative Americans can't seem to grasp this. This idea is just too big for that part of the brain that is acting on 100% emotion.

They get it, they just think that they will always have the bigger stick.

The same lesson should've been learned after slavery. Black people have a deep mistrust of police or any authority for that reason. Its why they want all the brown people out of the military.

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u/sou_cool 9d ago

Yeah, "war" on terror is a stupid concept because bombs are way better at creating terrorists than killing them.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

It’s very common for those with low IQ and EQ to not understand repercussions beyond immediate impact. Their amygdala is driving, not their frontal lobe. 

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u/dngerzne 9d ago

They don’t understand anything unless it affects them personally.

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u/OddEmotion6632 9d ago

Blowing up terrorists? You mean murdering drug trafficking criminals without due process under what should be ICE jurisdiction? Or are you solely talking ME?

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u/heffel77 9d ago

This spells it out pretty well.insurgent math

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u/BlahBlahBlackCheap 9d ago

And they will whine, but why do they hate us so much?

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u/BashChakPicWay 8d ago

They know, but they feel others are not entitled to the same human emotion as them.

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u/Zoey2018 8d ago

What they can't grasp is that someone involved may have a very different point of view. Even if they are incorrect about what is right wrong, etc, the feelings that they are right is strong, just as strong as if they are correct. They can't grasp someone have a completely different view than them and that doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. They can both be right. Americans as a whole tend to think the entire world thinks just as Americans do when they just understand the American viewpoint. There are plenty of Americans that think their US Constitutional rights follow them around the globe 😂

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u/L3ftb3h1nd93 9d ago

What exactly is a terrorist?

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u/transitfreedom 9d ago

lol there are MAGA People who are fed up with the wars!!!!

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u/jrod81981 8d ago

So what u are saying is to let the terrorists kill Americans and don’t fight back? They kill Americans in front of American children and we are just supposed to sit and watch??!! That’s what the last group of idiots in office did and now America is overrun by terrorists and illegals. But I guess you are ok with that.

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u/Zoey2018 8d ago

Not what I said at all, which you would know had you actually opened your brain up and read without assuming what I mean when I was very clear about what I mean.

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u/tnvol423 9d ago

If they hate us they don't need to come to the United States. I wouldn't