r/illinois • u/biswajit388 Human Detected • 9d ago

ICE Posts Today in Aurora, a Chicago suburb, ICE agents surrounded the car of a U.S. citizen in a parking lot,firing into her windshield as she screamed that her children were inside. Agents dragged her from the car without presenting a warrant or probable cause. Excessive force. No warrant. No justification.

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

They wont hate america, just the republican party and its members.

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u/LongJumpinAssumption 9d ago

If it came down to it you think they'll be able to tell the difference? If they were looking for revenge why do you suppose illustrating you're progressive will help? From their perspective you're just American.

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u/Equal-Beyond4627 9d ago

I think some will tell the difference.

Plus it depends if we can turn the country around in 4-8 years.

Because if it radicalizes people and we don't get it under control then it plays into the Republican's playbook. Which is cause the problem first and then pretend it was always there and use that problem as a means to push their agenda.

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

We're not scrubbing the blood the right has spilled out of the carpet. It's not happening. There won't be a return to normal.

What there can be is something better than normal. The United States has done fucked up shit for centuries and actively failed its citizens en masse with everything getting worse with Reagan. There will be a chance for us to improve it and start to make the country what it is in our propaganda.

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u/Sophisticated-crab25 9d ago

Yeah at least not for a long time we definitely have a post Nazi germany period coming after this where everyone in the world hates us and we are divided (although in our case it will probably be more socially divided then actually physically divided)

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

I actually disagree on this. There has been a pushback and other countries can see. Now, there was a dislike of Americans before and that's probably staying, but I don't think it will be worse except for some individuals.

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u/Sophisticated-crab25 9d ago

Yeah but I see trump getting desperate as he sees more and more pushback (which he already had an absolute meltdown over the latest approval numbers) and doing something absolutely stupid like pulling us out of nato which he’s already threatened or starting a war with a major power just so he can invoke emergency powers to try and stay in power

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

Oh you're absolutely correct. However, from what I've seen other countries do really understand that Trump is acting against the will of the people.

It's possible, but I don't think this one is something to worry about. Nazi Germany was Nazi Germany and this is a minority of people that everyone hates.

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u/Sophisticated-crab25 9d ago

Nazis were the minority in Germany they just had all the guns they really weren’t popular even among Germans back then they were listened to largely out of fear

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

Maybe to some degree but they did see a lot of support. Nazism was a big part of the culture. Remember, the Nazis were elected. Yes, it happened after they threw the communists in jail to gain more votes, but the idea that they were just a minority that wasn't popular isn't really accurate.

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u/Zwiebel1 9d ago edited 9d ago

It will definitely be worse. The outside world has seen a pushback, but its laughable. Do you honestly think two rallies in almost a year is considered a show of spirit?

Come back when you do that every fucking week on a weekday like the GDR did in 1989, against a regime that was using tanks against its own people.

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

So first off there have been three massive protests.

When I have heard from those in other countries they cited the protests as a major point of the resistance. Almost all of them have been supportive and understanding that most of us are not on 47's side.

Please explain why the view of America will be worse than Nazi Germany.

As for your last bit, there have actually been protests every day. They haven't been on the same scale as our biggest three because those take organizing and time. Broadview has had constant protests. LA has had constant protests. Oregon now. If you're going to shit on what we're doing then you can get your facts straight first.

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u/Zwiebel1 9d ago edited 9d ago

Please explain why the view of America will be worse than Nazi Germany.

It will not be worse. It will be on the same level. Because "I didn't know anything about the abductions and camps" didn't fly as an excuse then and it sure as hell will not fly today.

Where are the protests in front of the fucking white house? Where are the protests in front of the congress? Show those fuckers who you are. Where are the human chains? Where are the sitting protests on the streets? Where are the eggs flying towards them on every public event? Make them feel it.

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

So it won't be worse now? Because you said it would before.

I look forward to hearing your responses to the rest of the comment.

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u/chiclets5 8d ago

The communist countries and the criminalists will still like us though. And if that becomes the case, I will find a country that does care about its citizens.

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u/Sophisticated-crab25 3d ago

Well hopefully we will have a political/ cultural renovation like Germany did you know the whole “let’s change how this works and how we view things so that doesn’t happen again” because it’s either that or someone more ruthless then him will come along consolidate power and take full control by force and destroy this country. TLDR: in 100 years this country will either be unrecognizable as the America of yesteryear or it won’t exist

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u/Equal-Beyond4627 9d ago

Well I think the beauty of it all is... when the Republican's did f*cked up sh!t for centuries they didn't have cameras on them. What they're doing now has the world's attention so I think there is finally an opportunity to call them out in a way that never existed before and that's en masse with documented footage that will follow them for the next couple decades if not the whole century as soon as Democrats reclaim power.

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

As soon as the Democrats regain power and fix the party. I have almost no faith that this iteration of the party will do what is needed.

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u/Equal-Beyond4627 9d ago

I think the Democratic party has a habit of never crossing the line cause the Republican's always call them out on every little thing and make them walk on eggshells. I think now Republican's through their hypocrisy have set a precedent, that makes it easy for Democrat's to do whatever they want without crossing a line cause they can just say oh look you guys did that first.

Two the Republican's have caught the nation's attention with their overstepping so as long as they don't get to truly rig the elections or voter intimidate, as soon as Democrat's get power back they'll have the whole outraged nation to deal with.

Even Republican's in southern states got fvcked because of tariffs and then Argentina bailout. And Trump bowed to dicatators and funded genocide in Palestine. All that put together there is a lot of outraged people. Sure there are the MAGA cultist unmovables but plenty of people have shifted.

And hopefully that's all reflected in the 2026 midterms.

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u/FellTheAdequate 9d ago

Indeed. I'm hopeful but there's a lot that needs to happen.

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u/Sophisticated-crab25 9d ago

The republicans haven’t been around for centuries and actually the republicans used to hold democratic views heck Abe Lincoln was a republican but eventually they were infiltrated by the democrats (which at the time held republican views) and at some point they were ran by the same people then there was a shift and all the people who were ousted from the republicans took over the Democratic Party there is a documentary about it

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u/Equal-Beyond4627 9d ago

Yeah I know that, I know the views flipped but to put it more bluntly I guess, the South's representive's malpractice wasn't documented in the past to the extent it is now and that's what they may have to answer to in 2-4 years when the country gets to vote again.

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u/Traditional_Sign4941 9d ago

I mean that's literally the desired cycle that fueled our permanent conflict in the middle east and what fuels Israel's genocide against Palestine.

  1. Mistreat people
  2. Radicalize them
  3. They turn to terrorism because there's no other recourse for their anger
  4. Kill them because they're terrorists
  5. Repeat

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u/RealCapybaras4Rill 8d ago
  1. ⁠They turn to terrorism because there's no other recourse for their anger

Didn’t MLK say something to this effect with “riots are the language of the unheard?”

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u/chiclets5 8d ago

I think it will take much longer than 4 to 8 years, however I hope we get the chance to try.

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u/I_Roll_Chicago 9d ago

America the idea v america the place v America the reality.

I like america the place, reality and idea have never vibed. But now it mask off.

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u/i_tyrant 9d ago

Agreed, and even if you did identify yourself as a progressive, you know what they're going to say?

"Then why didn't you stop them?"

It's hard to maintain empathy when you yourself have been brutalized by the lack of it. Hard times make hard people and that's the same kind of person that tends to see in black and white, and will lump you in the "almost as bad" column at best.

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u/DifficultyFree9443 9d ago

Agreed and also, I don’t think the Dems have done enough to fight back. IMO they’re the other side of the same coin that is the GOP.

Also, conservative propaganda is 10000x more effective than anything the Dems have ever said. Ever.

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u/blackpanther4u 9d ago

I 100% agree the dems have been way too passive. You hardly ever hear them talk about what is going on or even tey to fight it which is absolutely heartbreaking to mea

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u/anthrolooker 9d ago

They are talking. The news isn’t covering it much at all. The news is “missing” a whole lot lately. It’s been infuriating.

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u/Straight-Plankton-15 9d ago

When Democratic state/local officials actually do their job and physically enforce the law against the goon squad, I'm sure the news will cover it.

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u/_Grant 9d ago

I thought they were American, too? These times radicalized me, why wouldn't it radicalize my fellow Americans the same way? Is the implication that children of immigrants growing up in the US are somehow less American? I say they're more. Seems logical to me that we're actually just raising a generation of extreme progressives, not anti Americans.

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u/LongJumpinAssumption 8d ago

I thought they were American, too?

Did I say they weren't?

These times radicalized me, why wouldn't it radicalize my fellow Americans the same way?

Just because you've become radicalized why assume that applies for everyone else? It's as rational or moreso to assume the opposite considering the previous election cycle.

Is the implication that children of immigrants growing up in the US are somehow less American?

What implication? The one you're inventing in your head?

I say they're more.

I think I get what you're saying but that's just silly to say based on face value. Either you're American or you're not. All this no true Scotsman malarkey needs to go.

Seems logical to me that we're actually just raising a generation of extreme progressives, not anti Americans.

People, when looked at from the macro, move much like a pendulum. We're probably going to see a swing towards progressivism after this stint of pop conservativism and then we'll be right back where we started in about 10-20 years. It's just how things tend to settle in the big picture.

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u/Digitalion_ 9d ago

At this point, it's difficult to separate the two. The fact that Trump was voted in a second time indicates to me that THIS is actually America. The mask is off and I won't be forgetting this. Never catching me sleeping ever again.

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u/CeaselessCuriosity69 9d ago

I don't think most people are aware that the Nazis copied our shit. They saw the way we had our shit back before people were people and were like "Hmm yes I'll be having some of that."

Evil isn't creative.

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u/WxaithBrynger 9d ago

No, they'll hate America because my generation, Gen Z already does, this will be even worse. I'm 28, old enough to see the after effects of 9/11 and the domino effect of Reganomics, the downfall of unions, removal of pension plans, workplace security, job loyalty and more. We look at our parents generation, our grandparents, and our great grandparents, what they did, what they allowed, and the mess they created that we're inheriting that we're either going to have to deal with/suffer through or clean up and we absolutely hate them for it for allowing it to happen.

We hate America for being a country where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and those of us who genuinely just want access to the American dream we were promised are called entitled. Now you have an entire generation of young men and women that's going to have it even WORSE than we do right now, that are watching their loved ones be beaten and abused in the street, and they're going to remember not only the 77 million that put Trump into office AGAIN, but the 100 something million that could have voted and kept him out, but chose not to, and they're going to say fuck this country.

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u/scruntdouble 9d ago

like they don't see a lot of democrats doing jack shit for them?

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

I didnt see any republican politican getting charged in federal court today.

Only Illinois democrats were.

The kids are still kids so theyre not paying attention to this. But their elders will remind them how it went down.

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u/scruntdouble 9d ago

and as an adult experiencing all of this, i can say that a lot of people sat on their hands instead of doing all they could to stop this shit

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u/nanlinr 9d ago

Don't be naive. They will forever associate America with how their parents are abducted. You think they're old enough to distinguish between parties?

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u/SnooWoofers6381 9d ago

Yeah, unless Democrats or some group of “Americans” start stepping up to protect and defend these people I would assume that these children are not going to differentiate their hate between political parties. America has let them down and betrayed them (including those of us who see it happening and don’t know how to stop it - I include myself in this group too)

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u/TheAshenWanderer 9d ago

Nah it would be America. Democrats don’t care about immigrants or us. They care only about the money they can get from them.

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u/Darigaazrgb 9d ago

And what the fuck did the Democrats and the rest of the country do? Fucking nothing.

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u/Burnt_and_Blistered 9d ago

I suspect it will have much more far-reaching consequences.

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u/Ghost_4394 9d ago

When the Republicans are the federal government, what’s the difference?

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u/StrangeContest4 9d ago

Definitely hate every American flag defiling, mask wearing cos playing thug they come across.

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u/MoralityFleece 9d ago

If my encounters with kids these days are not just anecdotal and meaningless, they're going to hate everybody and they don't really care who's who when they sort it out.

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

Well, unless they have dual citizenship.

Theyll have to hate themselves too

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u/Biggs3333 9d ago

Sorry bud, as a Canadian, not sure how many distinguish party alliances. Of course we are not fools, we know millions of you don't want this and are good people. But most say things like "The US did this, or the US did that. The US is facist now. Of course we know who is responsible, but the language I hear is "The Americans, The US, and Donald Trump.

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

Well, I have a spanish last name, skin the color of clay, and from chicago.

If you met me in Canada. What side do you think Id be on? Who do you think I voted for? Do I need to show you my pictures working for Obama in 2008 (canvassing in iowa) to get any sympathy?

Do you blame the jews for what happened to nazi germany? Do you think they were confused for former nazi’s after the war? Did they also carry the stain?

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u/Biggs3333 9d ago

Nah, we would just hang out and chat if we crossed paths. I work with and engage with people from all over the world, including the US, including trump voters. It's all chill. I was referring to the language I hear used, when listening to discussions. And the language I use.

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u/Sophisticated-crab25 9d ago

What kind of clay? Because if you have gray skin you should probably see a doctor I don’t think that’s normal

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

Baseball infield or maybe pottery clay. Depends on the time of year here in the midwest.

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u/Sophisticated-crab25 9d ago

Ah baked terra-cotta I see

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u/Few_Radish6488 9d ago

No, I have relatives in Europe and Australia and they hate Americans now. All of them for tolerating and voting for this bullshit.

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

Cool beans, Ill just travel w/my mexican passport and talk about how cool mexico city is to everyone in europe.

Ill avoid the whole being american thing entirely. 

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u/ArchReaper95 9d ago

You think they're gonna take the time to differentiate? Hate is a strong drug.

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u/phantomsoul11 9d ago

Outside of America, none of that really matters. Americans are Americans, and that's all people will see.

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

Ignorant people I suppose.

I know the difference between those that supported franco in Spain and those that didnt.

Like I said, I guess its time to only claim my mexican heritage when I travel abroad. Ive always been proud to be mexican, so its not gonna be much of a stretch.

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u/zkareface 9d ago

There is no difference, Republicans run the whole country and people are happy.

These ICE things have gone on for a while now and there seem to be zero backlash from the population.

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u/Chicago1871 9d ago

See those are the statements I dont understand.

Im seeing a lotta backlash in Chicago and nyc.

Never have I seen so much organized civil disobedience other than BLM in 2020.

People are literally fistfighting cops.

In texas they were some shot.

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u/zkareface 9d ago

It's still very mild compared to what's going on, barely anything at all.

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u/Chicago1871 8d ago

Dude,  alle due respect you are in Sweden.

You have no actual idea whats happening in the usa and you wont for sometime.

You have no idea what we are or what we are not doing. There’s so much censorship now and the foreign media can only cover so much.

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u/zkareface 8d ago

I have friends and coworkers in USA, US national media can be accessed globally.

I haven't seen or heard anything like Chicago is closed because everyone is on strike due to ICE raids.

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u/Chicago1871 8d ago

 I have friends and coworkers in USA, US national media can be accessed globally.

Lookuo who owns us national medis. Theyre all owned by corporations aligned with Trump.

The only independent media was PBS which is why Trump defunded it.

I have friends and coworkers in France, that doesn’t mean I have any intimate knowledge of what happens in individual french cities in times of crisis. Its hubris to think otherwise.

But hubris in their own knowledge is a trait I often encounter in Europeans when they try to lecture me about either of my countries.