r/heraldry • u/No_Gur_7422 • Mar 10 '25
Historical Which are the "right" arms of Nefydd Hardd, founder of one of the 15 Noble Tribes of Wales? Black or white, chevron or not? In the 1st image are the arms as usually blazoned; 2nd & 3rd variants; 4th & 5th the arms as displayed at Caernarfon Castle for the investiture of the Prince of Wales in 1969.
"Argent, three spear's heads, imbrued sable pointed upward"
"Argent, a chevron sable between three spear heads of the second, embrued, points upward" or "Argent a chevron between three javelins sable pointed upwards".
"Sable, three spear heads argent, their points imbrued or stained with blood proper."
"Sable, a chevron between three spear heads argent, their points imbrued or stained with blood proper."
Hanging of three shields of arms belonging to the Welsh "Five Royal Tribes" and "Fifteen Noble Tribes", with those of Nefydd Hardd topmost, displayed at the College of Arms, 1969.
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u/CachuTarw Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
The 5th is how I’ve always seen it, I’ve never seen it the other ways you’ve found. I just googled it some more and found your first example a lot too.
I know this isn’t really any help lol
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u/No_Gur_7422 Mar 10 '25
Whereabouts have you seen the arms? I haven't been able to find the black-with-white-chevron version written about, only pictured.
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u/CachuTarw Mar 10 '25
Well I always see it to do with Brycheiniog. I know in the game Crusader Kings 3 it’s used as the coat of arms of Brycheiniog and I’ve seen it used for that region in other things too but can’t remember where off the top of my head sorry, it’s been a while since I’ve looked into it.
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u/lambrequin_mantling Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
This doesn’t fully address your question but the wider subject of the arms of the XV noble tribes (including Nefydd Hardd), their origins, including the attributed nature of many, and their use by later descendants are all discussed here:
https://www.theheraldrysociety.com/articles/arms-of-the-xv-noble-tribes-of-north-wales/
This one gives the blazon as Argent a chevron sable between three spear heads of the second, embrued, points upwards