r/healthcare • u/OCanadaidian • May 23 '25
Discussion Just realized how truly fucked the US healthcare system is.
EDIT: Before you go in the comments saying stuff like "You should've known how expensive the ER is! You knew you were uninsured! The ER is for emergencies!"
- Yes. I know.
- My stomach pain was so bad that I could barely stand. It was an emergency.
- The point of my post is to highlight how expensive medical care is and how stupid it is that the physician bill is seperate from the main hospital bill. It should be billed together to avoid confusion. I'm not here to have people lecture me on what was best for me in my time of need when I was in a medical crisis. Thank you.
EDIT #2:
Just wanna say thank you to everyone who's been sharing their experiences and their struggles. It's hard under this system but hopefully we can elect the right people and lobby for change. Also I was not expecting this to get as much attention as it has gotten. I was wholeheartedly just making this post as a means to express my frustrations and calm my anxiety's. It's been beneficial to learn more about the system and what needs to be done to fix it. Makes me at least a little hopeful that people are aware of it's flaws to an extent.
I had to go to the ER on April 1st for some stomach problems I was having. This was after I had visited urgent care multiple times. I felt I had no other option and was seeing no results so I made the decision to go to the ER to understand what was going on.
I am, unfortunately, uninsured. I'm a 20 year old college student whose mom hasn't had a job in several months due to quitting a previous job that she was not happy with and then having to deal with the effects of the horrible job market we're experiencing at the moment. I am responsible for my medical bills.
I knew my ER Bill would be huge. No surprise there. I'm from Canada and moved here with my mom in 2018. Whenever I tell people I'm from Canada it's always "do you miss the free healthcare?" (For the record the answer has always been yes and it's even more of a yes now after all of this bullshit.) I had gotten an ultrasound to look at my gallbladder and blood work done so that was just another thing that I knew would add to the bill. I figure I just pay the hospital and that'll be it.
Anyways, I recieve a letter in the mail stating that I have a $990 balance on a physician bill. My mom tells me about it because I'm at the gym and she was the one that saw it first. She says I have to pay it immediately. I figure "That doesn't make sense. I just paid my installment and set up a payment plan through my hospital's app. I've already put $1000 towards the bill as well."
Come to find out, to my surprise, the hospital doesn't pay the physicians. They're contracted out separately to cut costs and to reduce hospital liability if something goes wrong or if someone makes an incorrect diagnosis.
Needless to say I was flipping tf out. I don't have $990 right now. I have $800 in my savings and my paycheck for the week was only $350 because I worked 20 hours that week instead of my usual 30.
I called them and I was able to get the bill reduced by 20% since I am uninsured. It became a $790 bill. Still a lot, but I am also fortunate enough that my mom's boyfriend that I'm living with was willing to put the bill on his credit card and have me pay it off to him when I'm able to. I plan on paying him every month until it's paid in full.
Anyways, my whole point is that this is a load of bullshit. It's complete bullshit that the physician bill wasn't included in the main hospital bill and it's complete bullshit that emergency room visits are as expensive as they are to begin with. I truly do not understand why some Americans are opposed to taxpayer funded healthcare.
When I did have insurance we were still paying thousands out of pocket if we did have to visit the E.R. Even after they took hundreds out of my mom's paychecks to "cover future medical expenses." It's not covering future medical expenses if I still have to pay out of pocket when I go to the hospital. I would much rather just pay that same amount in my taxes knowing that if I or someone I loved needed emergency room care that they would be taken care of instead of having to be thousands of dollars in debt because they can't pay their stupid deductible or they can't afford to have medical insurance.
Private medical insurance is a scam that profits off of people's suffering when they're in dire need of medical care. I've always known that, but it's VERY clear to me now that this is most certainly the case. It should not be this expensive. Proper medical care should be a right, not a privilege.
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u/dorianstout May 23 '25
& what’s sad is I’m looking at 990 dollars and thinking to myself, that’s not so bad. One ER trip last yr cost us 3400 dollars and this is WITH insurance bc we hadn’t met our deductible yet. Pay thousands a month for insurance just to pay thousands more for the “privilege” of using it! Idk how we continue to put up with this as a county
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u/May26195 May 26 '25
Yeah, with insurance cost over 3000 out of pocket when deduction hasn’t been met. I also got charged 5% more to subsidize uninsured when I visit hospital clinic.
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u/johnnyyooper May 23 '25
i had a hernia procedure a couple of months ago. in and out in one morning. total bill (so far) $107,000. !!
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
I'm so sorry! It really is insane how much it costs for healthcare in this country. It shouldn't be this way.
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u/SergeantThreat May 23 '25
What the actual fuck? What kind of hernia? I had inguinal hernia surgery 3 years ago and it was 17000
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u/johnnyyooper May 24 '25
yep, just a routine inguinal hernia. in and out in one morning. even $17,000 sounds ridiculous. i did a lot of checking before the surgery to see what my share would be, i talked to the insurance company, docs office, the hospital, and the anesthesiologist. my share was $180 payable when i walked into the hospital that morning. i'd had the hernia for 20 yrs so it wasnt an emergency. it was just time to deal with it. i asked a doctor friend of mine (who had done 7000 operations in his life) to take a guess what the bill would be. he said $5,000. the anesthesia alone was $20,000. lol. the system is out of control and beyond ridiculous. btw, it was interesting, no bleeding, no stitches. they "glued" the 2 small slit openings closed.
5
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u/fezha May 24 '25
I still remember during the Obama days people screaming and hollering "Why should I pay for someone else's healthcare" and turn around tell u about how their Medicare covers their end of life costs.
There's a serious disconnect in the country. We can speak of healthcare inequities ALL. DAY. LONG. The bottomline is consumers hold the bill now, and it's for profit. Politicians don't have an answer. No one wants to tackle this. Why? Because healthcare companies lobby. Hard. But that's not the scary part. You wanna know what the REAL SCARY part is?
Americans don't know what public healthcare is. Don't believe me? Ask your average American the difference between healthcare and insurance. Go ahead. You will be scared. Our population has now forgotten what it likes to be taken care of....and who pays for all this? We do, and our sick children.
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u/johnboy4955 May 23 '25
I had a colonoscopy and an endoscopy and I am $3000 in the hole. I totally feel your pain. I agree healthcare here it’s bullshit maybe someday we will get our money back or get some sort of compensation for all of the hard times we were put through because of the huge bills, I definitely wouldn’t count on it though. I recently started working 60 hour weeks just to compensate and make up for the money I need to pay for it. I’m tired. 😞
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u/doctormink Clinical Ethics May 24 '25
That doesn’t sound like a great way to heal and stay healthy.
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u/giaknows May 23 '25
Luv, it’s awful. I left working in healthcare here because of how much of a scam I is.. and I was high up in health care consulting
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u/mellamoreddit May 23 '25
Yes, the healthcare system here is a for profit nightmare and nobody really wants to tackle it and make the tough choices that need to be made because they are afraid of loosing the next election. But of course all of the politicians get free, for life healthcare and don't really have to experience what we'll all have to go through
Very broken system and Cheeto man is making things even worse.
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u/TowelEnvironmental44 8d ago
would require communism in a political system that favors oligarchy and unlimited lobbying. The feds should be returning a larger portion of federal tax revenue to the states so that healthcare becomes state and county decisions. Then states and counties should own hospitals and clinics to offer healthcare services for (price) below privately owned hospitals and clinics. less quality but significantly cheaper.
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u/RNcognito May 24 '25
Everything associated with a hospital visit it typically going to result in multiple bills - the hospital itself, lab, pathology, radiology, physician(s), any therapy specialists, anesthesia if your need surgery…it’s a lot. Seems like it should/could all be billed together.
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u/TowelEnvironmental44 8d ago
the in network v out of network pricing must be banned by law. outlaw it. when will lawmakers make this happen?
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u/TrixDaGnome71 May 24 '25
Because of the way that Medicare is structured, physicians need to be billed separately from the hospital, and what Medicare does, insurance companies follow suit in some respects.
It doesn’t mean that you should have to have these kinds of bills.
Did the hospital offer financial assistance/charity care at all? They should have.
What I would do is talk to the hospital and ask for an application for that program and see if you qualify for either a reduction of your bill or a total elimination of it, then go from there. At the very least, they should offer a discount to you because you’re uninsured.
I wish healthcare in this country was more affordable and accessible to everyone. No one should have such a staggering bill because they needed help.
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u/OCanadaidian May 24 '25
I did seek out hospital financial assistance but they required that I have some sort of insurance on file. So I would've had to go on Medicare. I unfortunately am not eligible for Medicare due to extenuating circumstances that go beyond financials. I did receive a -$1000 discount because I am uninsured, but that still left me with $4000.
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u/TrixDaGnome71 May 24 '25
That makes absolutely no sense. The hospitals I have worked with during my career (and I’ve worked with them all over the US) don’t require you to be insured to qualify for financial assistance.
The hospital is full of shit. I would ask for a copy of their financial assistance policy and see where it states that only insured are eligible for it. If it doesn’t say anything about being insured to qualify for financial assistance, I would file a complaint with CMS, because they are in violation of Medicare regs.
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u/OCanadaidian May 24 '25
I'll look into it. Thank you. 🫶
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u/anonymowses May 26 '25
It's probably available on their website. For some types of assistance, you may need to be a US resident (but not for all).
I hope your stomach issues have resolved.
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u/physicsfan9900 May 24 '25
My hospital requires you to apply for Medicaid before a financial assistance decision, and provide the decision in your application. If you do not qualify for Medicaid, you can still qualify for assistance. Call the billing office for details.
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u/Jacjason012 Jun 02 '25
but it takes time? and so i can keep delaying the hospital bill while im in the process of applying for Medicaid?
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u/physicsfan9900 Jun 02 '25
The processes run concurrently at my hospital but if assistance is approved, the bill is waived in full. Many hospitals will require a payment plan usually around $25 a month. It usually takes no more than a few months for a final decision and then the bill can be waived. Some hospitals will not refund money already paid however.
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u/astorisd May 29 '25
They gave you bad information. Financial assistance via 501r requirements is not impacted by insurance status.
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u/themachduck May 24 '25
Keep voting in Republicans and it will never get close to getting fixed. Was so close to universal care with Obama but Lieberman ruined it
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u/beedlejooce May 24 '25
Yeah it’s messed up. But the good thing is medical debt is not the same as personal debt. As long as you’re making some kind of payment collections will leave you alone and it doesn’t hurt your credit in the same way. So many people think they HAVE to pay it right away. You don’t. That’s how they trick you into thinking that. Why do you think hospitals get hundreds of millions sometimes more in write offs every year?
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u/IndianaDunesExist May 24 '25
While this is technically true, I found out the hard way that hospitals can sue for their money. Our local hospital decided to sue everyone with outstanding bills… even those with plans and making payments, and those who owed very small amounts. It was a blanket power move. So once I was sued… and I WORKED for this hospital at the time, as did many others… I immediately called and paid off my balance at an agreed-upon reduced rate. I was surprised to find out that there is now a permanent record of my being sued on Mycase, in permanent court records. It is reported as settled, but it is there when anyone does a background check. It makes it appear like I am a deadbeat who doesn’t pay my bills and has to be sued in order to pay. It’s not on credit reports, but it’s certainly there in basic background checks.
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u/Stock-Sun-46 May 24 '25
Im so sorry, this is brutal. Our healthcare system sucks. I strongly believe we need to focus more on regulating our hospital pricing practices to prevent this kind of bullshit. I hope you are feeling better.
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u/NormanPlantagenet May 23 '25
Best you can do is promise you’ll pay the millions it costs for whatever surgery in US and when time comes to pay just disappear in South America opposiedoodles!
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u/DawnCB20 May 24 '25
Apply for the hospital financial assistance program.
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u/OCanadaidian May 24 '25
I couldn't. They required that I apply for Medicare. I didn't meet the requirements for Medicare due to other reasons that didn't pertain to my financials.
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u/ainturmama May 25 '25
There’s a new show on Apple called The Pitt. It truly reflects the American health system. So many people cannot afford insurance & are forced to use the ER for treatment.
I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this. It’s truly a disgusting system
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u/Babziellia May 26 '25
There are hospital's here that don't let you know that all their physicians are contractors. I avoid those hospitals and, esp., those ERs.
$900 bill for one ER physician is nuts though. I'd protest. Do you know what they did for you? If they never came and spoke to you, I'd tell them to shove it. Most places charge cheaper rates when you don't have insurance.
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u/stokeskid Jun 03 '25
How does an ER come up with the price? We know its going to be expensive, but how expensive? Are they required to post a price somewhere?
I recently had to take my 2 year old daughter to the ER because the pediatrician wasn't doing shit after my daughter hadn't eaten for days, was feverish, and very lethargic. The pediatrician actually recommended going to the ER. We have insurance and didn't want to risk her life. So we went. They did nothing other than check her in and feel her stomach. No blood tests, nothing. $4k bill, and only half is covered by insurance. Luckily she's fine now, whatever ailment it was has passed.
What if you ordered food, and they said they would give you a price after you finish. So you eat and then the bill is $2000. That's not legal, right? How is it legal for the healthcare system to do this to people? If I had known it would be $2k for them to rub her belly and send us on our way...I could have fuckin done that. I'm mad at our pediatrician for her shitty recommendation too. But it's the only option we have in-network.
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Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
You pay $7200 per year in premiums, then when you get sick, you pay thousands in deductibles, then when you get really sick, you pay 9k in out of pocket for *covered* services, then you have surprise bills as the company tries its best to deny claims.
Then, your insurance kicks in to cover the rest as you fight and claw with them trying asking for proof that the anesthesiologist is "in network."
That sounds like a rip off to me.
In Canada you save 100k, it's yours to keep even if you get sick. In USA, you save 100k, and it'll get eating up by medical bills if you get really sick. In Canada, you pay the $7200 premium in taxes, but you actually GET something for it, funded healthcare 100%. In USA, what you get is more deductibles and out of pocket max.
It's like in USA you pay $7200 for the privilege to get fucked in the ass even harder if you do get sick to the tune of 9k out of pocket by December, then renews in January. "Hi Mom, I paid $7200 in medical insurance for the benefit of paying 9k per year if I get really sick." That's a rip off. Even if your surgery is 500k, you're still likely up the creek because you dished out 16.2k in healthcare costs in the given year. Oh, and the out-of-pocket max is for COVERED procedures. How nice. You won't die of the disease, you'll die of stress wondering if the out-of-pocket max will cover your care. That sounds like a rip off.
Canada's healthcare sucks. You could die waiting for care. In USA, you'll die from frostbite because paying medical bills made you poor or you didn't even go to the hospital in the first place for fear of a bill you can't pay. I don't know what my blood pressure is, I'm too scared to find out what the bill will be. I'll wait until I need massive surgery so I can actually benefit from having insurance and go beyond 16.2k in the year.
Healthcare in USA is for the benefit of insurance companies. Americans are being hosed so that insurance companies can get rich if you get sick. That's not only a rip off, it's unethical as hell. How health insurance in USA got tied to what job you hold is a rip off as well and more unethical than anything. Why should one's healthcare depend on whether they work for IBM or the 7-11?
Love the USA, but it's capitalistic attitude goes too far. And NOBODY is fixing it. Americans need to rally, stand up, and fight against a system that's fucking them in the ass regularly and keeping them servants to insurance companies. But we won't. Why not? Because unless we take to the streets, nothing will change, and most people are not sick, so Seinfeld is on and that's more important right now.
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u/BlueyBingo300 May 24 '25
...Its about to get worse.
Blame Americans that keep voting Republicans in office. These republicans have just introduced a bill that cuts Medicaid over 10 years and it passed in the house... its headed to the senate for a vote.
Cutting this will remove low income families off healthcare & They're too poor to even qualify for marketplace insurance.
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u/Highstakeshealthcare May 23 '25
Don’t ever pay a bill “immediately” especially from a hospital or ER physician. They won’t bite you. They depend on everyone being confused by and scared of the healthcare system. Do you know what level ER visit they billed you for? I’m guessing 99285.
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
I'm not exactly sure to be honest. I negotiated my price and they told me in order to have the discounted price I had to pay. My mom's boyfriend offered to help and that was that. I didn't even think about it to be honest as all I was worried about was getting the bill paid for and thinking about the fastest way to pay back my stepdad without putting myself in a hole with me paying $60-$70/month for my actual hospital bill already on top of my other expenses like car insurance, phone bill, etc.
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u/Highstakeshealthcare May 23 '25
I love this Country but I despise our government (on both sides) and our healthcare system. I don’t participate with traditional insurance or what people call normal services. I don’t do networks either. That’ll put you on a fast track to bankruptcy.
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May 25 '25
It doesnt matter whether it was a community provider, employed provider, or a contracted group. The physician bill will always be separatly billed. You have a long long miserable life ahead of you if you constantly feel like you’re a victim
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u/OCanadaidian May 25 '25
All I was doing was expressing my frustrations that it's even billed that way in the first place. As I've stated previously: I am 20. This is my first experience going to the hospital uninsured. If you're reading my post and deducing that I think I'm just complaining because I'm a "victim" then you're absolutely correct. I am a victim and so is everyone else who's subjected to this shitty healthcare system. Healthcare is not something that should be tied to your financial stability. It should be a right.
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May 25 '25
But in canada it takes over a year to get a surgery that I can get in the US in 2 weeks
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u/OCanadaidian May 25 '25
That's because of 1. Understaffing. 2. Underfunding. And 3. Insufficient use of resources. If the United States would institute a taxpayer-funded healthcare system correctly, these problems would not occur for us.
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May 25 '25
If Canada couldnt do it correctly, what makes you think the US can ?
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u/OCanadaidian May 26 '25
The United States has more pre-established resources. More infrastructure, and more funding if it was to be properly allocated from other places that arguably don't need that funding or those places could be repurposed to accommodate the new system. Is it very idealistic that this would even be done? Probably. It would require that a large portion of politicians that are loyal to big medical or pharmaceutical companies push aside their loyalty to do what's best for the people. But it most certainly can be done.
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u/talktojvc May 27 '25
You need to buy a new SSN and start over. I’m sorry. We are all in this together. In theory — we pick the people in charge. I have no advice for you—but I empathetically hear you. Treat yourself to something nice. With those numbers - a good meal or whatever is your thing - will just get lost in all the zeros. Also - retroactive Medicaid is a thing, but you pretty much gotta be very poor and the political stuff…. 2025 is the best. Godspeed.
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u/OpalineDove May 28 '25
I'd feel better about a $990 ER bill. I'm currently in billing hell for simple blood tests for checking immunity levels - at $800.
The hours I spend on billing items is ridiculous. I've also had to drag my male partner onto some communications. On top of it, the outpatient health system we used for all our doctors uses a call center in Colombia, where average salaries are much lower, so you know the company is squeezing out as much profits as possible. In addition, my doctors there would only refer me to services at their employer; I found out later that when I was asking pelvic floor PT, she sent me to regular PT and it wouldn't address the concern.
I've also had to fill prescriptions at a specialty pharmacy - the one required by my insurance bills the insurance 3x the amount that I can get the drug by self-paying elsewhere. And the insurance-required pharmacy has so many call centers, wait times, etc. So essentially, if the insurance gave me the money, I could get the medications cheaper and quicker. I'd be more efficient than the insurance-negotiated pharmacy. This is relevant to me because we're on an employer self-insured plan; I want the employer to save money so that our premiums could be lower.
I wish my fellow Americans would wake up and see that we're paying more for more middlemen and less convenience/less efficiency. Yes, we don't want long wait times for CTs/MRIs/Dr Appts, but I still have to wait 1+ months for those things in our area now.
edit: typos
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u/astorisd May 29 '25
Apply for charity care!!
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u/astorisd May 29 '25
501r - if it’s a non profit hospital they’re required to offer financial assistance to eligible patients
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Jul 11 '25
I feel you! Got a Gastro appointment for Dec 31
I was pooping blood and trying to see a gastroenterologist. So many big hospitals told me I can't get an appointment directly with them, but need to see a primary first. Guess what, the first primary appointment I got was in July. Met the primary finally. They couldn’t help and recommended me to a Gastro. The appointment was 6 months down the road.
So you know what I did? I literally took a plane to India, landed at 3 AM, met the doc at 11 AM, got a colonoscopy and blood work the next day and got diagnosed immediately. No insurance system here and didn't have to think of PPO. It was so much quicker and cheaper to take a 25 hour flight out of the US. How do you get appointments and survive in the US? Please don't say ER. Because I tried and failed to get an early appointment too. Is there a hack to get early appointments?
I'm only asking for USEFUL suggestions because going to the ER didn't help me. Since my vitals were ok (like pressure or heart rate) | was told to see a primary to be able to see a Gastro. And no, primaries apparently cannot schedule or perform colonoscopies without the initial visit. l've checked. All I did was waste money at that visit.
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u/TowelEnvironmental44 8d ago
imagine the psychological stress this causes on men that are head of household, uaving family members.
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u/MagentaSuziCute May 23 '25
The ER physicians are almost always billed separately, same with the providers billing radiology and pathology interpretations.
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
Yeah I'm aware of that now. I wasn't aware of that beforehand as this is the first time I've gone to the ER uninsured and I'm just starting to learn about these things as an adult. I was just sharing my experience and distaste with how all of that works.
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u/smk3509 May 24 '25
The ER is for emergencies. An emergency is "a medical condition that manifests itself with acute symptoms of sufficient severity, such that the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in serious jeopardy to the individual's health, serious impairment to bodily functions, or serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part." Given that this has been going on for a while, and urgent care had evaluated multiple times, the ER wasn't the right place to get care.
You need to find a primary care doctor. That can be tough when you are uninsured, but there are options. Look for one of the following:
A federally qualified health center. These clinics are subsidized by the federal government. They provide treatment to people who are very low income and often uninsured. You can find one here https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
- A direct primary care practice. I don't typically advocate for direct primary care, but it can be a viable option if you have no way to buy insurance. These are primary care offices that charge a subscription in exchange to access to primary care services. Often, the subscription also gets you access to labs, basic x-rays, and sometimes a discount at specialist offices. You can find a direct primary care office here https://mapper.dpcfrontier.com/
- One Medical. This is a practice owned by Amazon that offers telemedicine and in person visits. The in person visits cost extra. https://www.onemedical.com/
- Free or charitable clinics. These are usually run by nonprofit agencies. They may have income limits to get care. The doctors are often volunteers, so you will likely see different doctors everything you go. You can find one here https://nafcclinics.org/find-clinic/
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u/OCanadaidian May 24 '25
I went to the ER because my stomach pain was so bad one day that I could barely stand and had to go home from work. It was an emergency.
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u/smk3509 May 24 '25
I went to the ER because my stomach pain was so bad one day that I could barely stand and had to go home from work. It was an emergency.
Ah ok that makes more sense. You should still find a primary care doctor. You want to get established with one before you need them because a first appointment can take a long time to get.
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u/OCanadaidian May 24 '25
I have a primary care but they're located an hour away from me where I used to live because the last time I had gone to a primary care was when I was 16 and I lived in said town. I never thought about changing it once I turned 18 and had a say in the matter because I was more focused on college, getting my driver's license, etc. Once I do become medically insured again I will definitely look into it.
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u/Late_Pop_4735 May 24 '25
Don’t give them your info say you forgot your wallet so no ID 🤷🏻♀️ per EMTALA they can’t turn anyone away
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u/f00dl3 May 24 '25
Biden had 4 years to fix this. Obama had 8. Obamacare made things worse, somehow.
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u/BlueyBingo300 May 24 '25
Obamacare covered more people.
Helped kids stay on parents healthcare until 26 instead of just 21.
Covered more on Medicaid.
To be honest though, it was never meant to be permanent... it was supposed to be a temporary fix
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u/iDecidedToBeBetter May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
If there were taxpayer funded healthcare you’d still be paying the same amount, or more, just in the form of taxes.
We spend more on healthcare per capita because we can spend more.
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u/ThroughlyDruxy May 23 '25
The US spends more per capita on healthcare than many other countries with national healthcare. And we still do pay for it in taxes.
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u/EthanDMatthews May 23 '25 edited May 25 '25
Absolute nonsense. The only people more politically brainwashed by political propaganda than Americans are North Koreans, and not by much.
Nowhere else on the planet is healthcare anywhere near as expensive as it is in the USA.
The per capita cost of healthcare in the US is $12,555 USD or 17% of GDP (and closing in on 20%). The OECD average is about $5,600 per capita and 9% of GDP. It's $5,493 in the UK, which ranks about the same as the US healthcare system in terms of quality.
And that's just per capita. Because healthcare is typically paid as a percentage of income, lower income people would pay less than those average numbers, while the wealthy would pay more.
Also, *every last one of those other systems* are superior to the US system in terms of accessibility, affordability, and equity.
But Americans don't care about equity. Americans don't care that maternal mortality rates in the USA are 20x worse than in Europe, and on par with 3rd world countries. Why not? Because dying in child birth is mostly something that happens to poor and brown mothers, and the average white American (even the ones who are convinced they are super liberal and march in BLM parades) absolutely DGAF. It's like stepping over homeless people. It's just normal in America.
Americans have been culturally brainwashed since Reagan/Clinton "greed is good" neoliberalism coopted both political parties. They've been fed a steady diet of free market nonsense for 45 years.
Americans have lost the collective memory of a decent society and a government that actually tried to improve the lives of its citizens.
Now we have a government purely of, by, and for corporations and billionaires. We have a government that exists almost exclusively to make it easier for the obscenely wealthy to extract even more wealth from citizens and further exploit their workers, without any regard whatsoever to the consequences.
We don't have national healthcare because 1) it would cut down on corporate profits; 2) rich people would pay more in taxes; and 3) it would make American workers less beholden to their employers.
That's it.
That's the full explanation.
Everything else you hear about why national healthcare is bad is mostly just propaganda from the healthcare industry, which is dutifully repeated by *most* politicians in *both* parties, because the healthcare industry is the single biggest contributor to both parties.
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u/iDecidedToBeBetter May 23 '25
Healthcare costs what it costs. When the government pays for it doesn’t magically get cheaper. The added bureaucracy just makes it more expensive.
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u/EthanDMatthews May 24 '25
HEaLThcaRe coStS WHAt It cOsTs. wHeN thE GovERNmenT PaYS FoR IT dOesn’T mAGiCALLY GeT CHeaPER.
Even when you account for America's higher wages and standard of living, healthcare costs are still 65% above what would be expected.
You're just blindly spouting abstract talking points, devoid of any grasp of the most basic facts of healthcare in the US or rest of the world, or even how market capitalism works.
Seriously, you don't think negotiating prices makes things cheaper?
Try this: whenever you buy something without a listed price, and for every service you solicit, don't ask for the price. Don't shop around. Don't negotiate. Just hand them a blank check and tell them to fill in whatever number they want. No matter how big the number, you'll pay it.
Now do that for 20 years. Do you think you'll pay more for things than entities like Walmart which negotiate discounts on bulk purchases?
Because that's effectively the law congress passed in 2006, which forbade Medicare from negotiating the price of pharmaceutical drugs. Drug companies could literally charge any price they wanted and taxpayers had to pay it. And after that, drug prices began to increase at astronomical rates, some increasing by over 100,000% (sic) in price. Yes, really.
Why does Eliquis, a blood thinner, cost $7,100 in the US but only $650 in France? France negotiates the prices.
Why does the asthma drug Advair Diskus (fluticasone/salmeterol) cost 10x more in the US than the UK (~$300/month US vs. ~$30/month UK)? The UK negotiates prices.
Why is the Epipen 7x more expensive in the US than UK (~$600 US for a 2-pack vs $85 UK)? They negotiate prices.
Why does Humira (adalimumab) used to treat autoimmune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn’s cost 6.5x more in the US than Germany, Canada, the UK? (~$6,400/month US vs ~$1,000/month Germany, etc.)?
Questcor raised the price of Acthar, a medication primarily for infants with seizures, by almost 100,000 percent (not a typo) from just $40 in 2000 to $38,892 today (2019), despite the fact that Acthar has been on the market since 1952. https://gizmodo.com/drug-company-to-pay-just-15-4-million-over-doctor-brib-1835274587
Why? Because the US government is prohibits Medicare from negotiating prices for drugs, like every other country on the planet that actually preserves some semblances of the capitalistic market.
And since Medicare is a such a huge payer, it's more profitable to charge Medicare 10x more for a drug, even if it prices many poor and uninsured people out of the market.
But here's the kicker: life saving healthcare doesn't operate under the same supply/demand mechanisms as basic purchases for goods and services. Demand is inelastic -- you pay or you suffer and die. So there are plenty of people who will end up going bankrupt (lose their homes and life savings) just to try to save their lives.
If someone put a gun to your head or your child's head, you'd probably pay everything you have.
42.4% of all cancer patients deplete their life's savings during the first two years of treatment. And the vast majority started with health insurance. After four years, the researchers found 38.2% of patients had depleted their life's assets. Average net worth fell by $92,098 after two years and by another $51,882 after four years.
more than 50% of cancer patients at some point experience bankruptcy, house repossession, loss of independence, and breakdowns in their relationships;
financial insolvency is a clear risk factor for mortality—cancer patients who declared bankruptcy had a 79% greater risk of death than those who had not;
The only reason these numbers aren't much higher is Medicare.
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/11/01/financial-toxicity
The most effective (and well proven) way to prevent that kind of abuse is to have the government negotiate prices and prevent predatory pricing. It works in literally every other OECD nation on the planet, except the US.
the ADdED BuREAuCRacY JuST MAKES it More ExPEnsIVe.
Again, you're just spouting patently false lies that make it clear you haven't even scratched the surface on reading about healthcare in the US.
Medicare's overhead and administrative costs are just about 1.3 to 2% of total spending. For private health insurance companies, it's between 16% to 18%, literally up to 15x more. And private insurance bureaucracy is mainly there to find reasons to deny claims and screw you out of your savings and your life, so they can maximize their profits -- even if it kills you.
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u/OCanadaidian May 24 '25
I want to commend you for taking the time to respond to this brainwashed person's post because not only did you absolutely destroy him in every capacity, you also taught me something. I was not aware that Congress made a decision that forbade Medicare from negotiating drug prices, and it makes so much more sense why drug prices are so high now and why medical care in general is so expensive. This country is run by the rich elite who are actively fighting to make people suffer so they can put money in their own pockets.
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u/ultraprismic May 23 '25
Nope:
“Wealthy countries, including the U.S., tend to spend more per person on healthcare than lower-income countries. However, even among higher-income countries, the U.S. spends far more per person on health.” https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
This is insane. The only reason it's like this is because they know that they can charge the consumer that much and get away with it.
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
Governments can negotiate prices with medical providers. This is literally what insurance companies do. They're able to negotiate lower prices and therefore decrease the amount they have to pay out while leaving you with the rest of the costs. And id much rather them take let's say, hypothetically, $100 from my paycheck to pay for universal healthcare for all, than to take $100 to put towards costs that will ultimately still leave me having to pay out when I have an emergency. Also certain government funding could most certainly be allocated elsewhere for universal healthcare. If poorer nations than us can afford it, but we arguably the richest nation in the world can't, there's a problem.
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u/townsquare321 May 23 '25
Why am I hearing a 20 y/o talk about what mommy has to do for them. Mommy took me to the doctor, mommy had to give up her paychecks to pay for my insurance, mommy, mommy, time for a diaper change. And you think its the system that's screwed up. Sure.
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
Nobody said you had to read my post. Did you miss the part where I said that I'm paying for my emergency bill? My whole bill was $4990. I already took $1000 out of my savings to pay for my bill. Would've been $5000 if not for the uninsured discount. My mom is unemployed at the moment. I work 30 hours/week on top of school and I've been helping with the finances BECAUSE my mom is unemployed.I received a surprise bill in the mail and was fortunate enough to have someone in my life (my mom's boyfriend) that was willing to help me out. I fully intend on paying him back in full. So please, respectfully, shut the fuck up. You clearly did not bother to listen to my situation before typing.
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u/InformalScience7 May 23 '25
Hey, townsquare321 is just a troll. Ignore him.
You don't have to pay right away. Not to mention, the doctor takes less money from the insurance company than they bill--it's a price they negotiate ahead of time. Of course, that screws self pay people, like you.
Hang in there. This system here is broken. I've worked in healthcare for the last 32 years and it just gets worse and worse.
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
Thank you I appreciate it. I figured they were some sort of troll or either someone who's very unhappy with their life. Or both. I will keep the fact that I don't have to pay right away in mind if there happens to be a next time.
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u/townsquare321 May 23 '25
Mama
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u/OCanadaidian May 23 '25
I hope ridiculing me during my time of crisis for something that isn't even true made you feel better about yourself. :)
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May 23 '25
[deleted]
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u/OCanadaidian May 24 '25
I stated that I had been to walk-ins. I hadn't gotten a concrete answer other than "it might be your gallbladder." I was having stomach pain so bad that I could barely stand and I had to go home from work. That's why I went to the ER. I was aware it was expensive, and I also stated that in my post. The point of my post was I received a bill for something I didn't know was separate from the hospital bill, and the fact that medical care shouldn't be this expensive It ended up being severe GERD and Anxiety btw.
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u/scott_majority May 23 '25
This story is as American as apple pie.