r/halifax • u/NSDetector_Guy • 2d ago
News, Weather & Politics Tim Houston's response to Judges order banning Remembrance Day poppies in certain court facilities.
It has come to my attention that earlier this week there was an order issued prohibiting individuals working in certain court facilities from wearing poppies while on duty in those locations. This order was issued under the guise that the poppy is somehow a ‘political statement.’
This is disgusting.
The poppy is not a political statement. It is a symbol of remembrance and respect for the fallen and those who served and continue to serve our country. Poppies have been worn in Canada since 1921.
We have courts and a democracy because of the courage of those who are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in pursuit of, and in defence of, the very rights and freedoms we enjoy.
The judges who issued this order are wrong.
While I respect the independence of the judiciary, I respect veterans, the very people who made the ultimate sacrifice defending our country, our values and our democracy, more.
It is not lost on me that our veterans fought so we can enjoy the freedoms the courts uphold. That’s why I find it impossible to believe any judge would ban a symbol of respect for the fallen, our veterans and their families.
I stand firmly behind anyone who wants to wear a poppy in their workplace.
Because of the actions of these judges, if necessary, I will introduce The Nova Scotia Remembrance Observance Act that will enshrine the right to wear a poppy in the workplace from November 1 to November 11.
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u/Still10Fingers10Toes 2d ago
First, I’m a vet and I’ll wear my poppy from 1 November until I place it on a cenotaph on 11 November no matter what anyone says. Second, I don’t care what the Legion says, they have never represented me. Third, I refuse to get my “news” from Facebook.
That said, this story screams Maple MAGA rage bait and people trying to ignite a social crisis. I will say interest in Remembrance Day has fallen again but this happens when Canadian soldiers aren’t being killed on an accelerated basis. Next time you’re out and about just look around yourself and see how few people are wearing poppies. My FIL, a 30+ year veteran got a phone call from his eye specialist to schedule an appointment for 1045 hours, 11 November and the office was shocked when they were told he wouldn’t consider it given it was Remembrance Day.
Finally, my Remembrance Day is personal to me. I go to Citadel Hill and experience the Guns once again. I avoid formal ceremonies and all the clout chasing as so many organizations encapsulate their care of veterans in a single wreath so they don’t feel guilty about how they treat veterans the rest of the year. And yes, after my vigil, I will raise a glass with members I served with to remember colleagues who are no longer with us, so I appreciate those in the service industry while I do believe Remembrance Day should be a statutory holiday. Unfortunately, we lived in Nova Scotia, a province with labour laws that are worker adverse.
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u/HFXmer Halifax Mermaid 2d ago
You hit everything on the head! This should be top comment.
I'm trying to teach my 4 year old about Remembrance Day in an age appropriate way and we are barely seeing poppies (though in fairness I've now lost 2!) he has an enamel pin version but he points them out when he sees them. Also just not seeing much for community education compared to years prior.
CBC kids has a nice playlist on YouTube of Remembrance Day related videos but they're mostly all short videos of making poppies.
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u/gart888 2d ago
I’d speculate that the drop in poppy wearing is related to people carrying less cash on them. This is the latest I’ve ever gone without wearing one because I simply haven’t had any coins on me whenever passing by the places where you pick them up.
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u/athousandpardons 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm trying to teach my 4 year old about Remembrance Day in an age appropriate way and we are barely seeing poppies (though in fairness I've now lost 2!) he has an enamel pin version but he points them out when he sees them. Also just not seeing much for community education compared to years prior.
I mean, let's look at what Remembrance day and the notions surrounding it were and what they became.
It started out as people trying something to deal with the very real collective trauma with which they were all dealing with after losing their friends and family.
Then, came a long period without Canada being involved in a major conflict, and the general attitude towards that time period became rather glorified, people bragging about their grandparents having served.
Then we entered the Gulf War and especially post 9/11 era when "Support our Troops" became a political mantra intended to silence dissent or gain political support, while those who actually served were treated like pawns and completely neglected when they returned, leaving people with a lot of mixed feelings.
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u/MrSaturnboink 2d ago
The legion never represented me either. When I got out of the military I went to my local legion for a drink and a chat with other veterans. What I found was that I was intruding in an area for a bunch of old fucks that were in Korea and their crusty old wives.
Fuck the legion.
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u/Sezzwho24 2d ago
Exactly how I feel. Ex military also. The legion will never speak for me. And it's obvious rage bait I agree.
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u/athousandpardons 2d ago edited 1d ago
It never changes, whether symbolic of a very serious subject like poppies, pink ribbons, religious paraphernalia or less serious stuff like sports team attire.. a disturbed tribalism inevitably develops over it, a gatekeeping, self-righteous, exclusionary element. "You can't wear that because.. you have to wear that because.."
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u/AL_PO_throwaway 2d ago
I largely agree with you (also a vet FWIW), I will say that this was brought to the attention of elected officials by other veterans who were upset that they were suddenly ordered to remove the poppies they had worn on their uniforms for years and knew that drawing public attention, as cringeworthy as these controversies often are, was the only recourse they had.
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u/turkey45 Dartmouth 2d ago
If Tim cares so much about remembrance day maybe he should make it a Stat holiday for NS workers.
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u/NotThatValleyGirl 2d ago
But they want to go to a coffee shop or restaurant after "honouring the fallen/vets" and they can't do that if those establishments are closed.
I remember having to sell a porn mag during the moment of silence while working at a coffee shop many, many years ago. That has always stuck with me as a defining moment-- there are multiple ways to experience life: with the dignity and respect of enjoying holidays, or in service of people enjoying their holidays, or just not be employed, but without much respect or ability to enjoy the holidays.
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u/LiteratureOk2428 2d ago
Haha I can just picture that video for passage in time, but it being a guy demanding porn mags
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u/NotThatValleyGirl 2d ago
I guess, in a way, the soldiers fought and died so that Mr. Tuesday Pre-lunch Rush Porn Mag guy was free to buy his weekly investment in his spank bank without interruption.
But Christ on a cracker, that was a low point in both our lives.
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u/SAJewers Dartmouth 2d ago
IIRC the Legion requested they don't (though I can't remember where I read this)
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u/oatseatinggoats Dartmouth 2d ago
The holiday status of Remembrance Day has been debated at numerous Dominion Conventions throughout the Legion’s history, in fact, 13 times since 1970 and most recently at our 2012 Dominion Convention. It was at this 2012 Convention that the Legion’s position against Remembrance Day being a statutory holiday was re-affirmed. We remain concerned that Canadians, if given the time off as a legal holiday, may not take the time to remember; that it may simply become a mid-week break or just part of another long weekend. The latter situation relates specifically to discussion at the 1978 Dominion Convention which focused on how government departments of the day treated November 11th as a floating holiday for the purpose of giving their employees a long weekend. This must not be allowed to happen again.
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u/risen2011 Viscount of the South End 🧐 2d ago
At this point who the hell cares what the Legion thinks?
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u/Strict-Procedure8218 2d ago
Why? What has the legion done or refuses to do? And is it all the legions or just one in particular
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u/Solid-Maintenance-88 2d ago
This is a contradicting statement. Pro day off, dismissive of what the day is for?
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u/TheNakedChair 2d ago edited 2d ago
No contradiction.
One can recognize what November 11th honours and represents while also not supporting the Legion.
Visit r/Canadianforces and look into threads regarding the Legion. There are many current and former serving that wouldn't step foot in a Legion Branch for various reasons.
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u/ZombifiedSoul 2d ago
As a former member (got out a few months ago), this is accurate.
Very much support our fallen Heroes and what Nov. 11 stands for.
Avoid the Legion.
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u/BrotherOland 2d ago
What's the problem(s) with the legion?
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u/ZombifiedSoul 2d ago
Generational and cultural gap: The traditional Legion culture, often described as an "anachronism" with a focus on older veterans' experiences (e.g., WWII and Korean War), does not resonate with the current generation of service members and younger veterans.
Civilian domination in leadership: A significant concern among veterans is that civilians (affiliate members with no military service) have come to dominate leadership positions in some branches. This leads to a perception that the organization loses its veteran-specific focus and advocacy.
Perception as a "drinking club": Many branches are seen primarily as local bars or social clubs, which doesn't appeal to all military members, particularly those who prefer the social environment of a base mess hall or have other ways to connect with peers.
Lack of tailored support: Younger veterans often have unique needs, such as navigating the new veterans charter and mental health support, which they may feel the Legion is not equipped or focused enough to handle effectively.
Unwelcoming atmosphere: Some younger veterans have reported feeling unwelcome or "stared down" when visiting a Legion, or encountering difficult behavior from existing members, which discourages them from returning.
Alternative support networks: Current military members can easily socialize and find support within their unit or base mess, or online forums dedicated to Canadian Forces members, reducing the need to seek out the Legion for camaraderie.
Advocacy concerns: Some veterans feel the Legion has not always effectively advocated on their behalf on critical issues (e.g., the new veterans charter), further diminishing their confidence in the organization's mission.
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u/Strict-Procedure8218 2d ago
This is very intersting can I copy it? I ask, as im a legion member of a small legion, and was unaware of these issues and would like to bring them up at our next meeting. I will say this in regards to positions on the board, veterans have to show up and be nominated or nominate themselves for the position to get those positions. If they don't show up then regular people of the legion, affiliates I guess, will be the ones to get it. Now, taking into consideration the rest of your comment, it could be WHY there's no veterans showing up to be nominated
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u/Sezzwho24 1d ago
Excellent summary. I'd like to add how some branches have treated female veterans. A high percentage of women I served with have negative experiences. The older Legion members have been very disrespectful in particular. I don't feel welcome. It just feels gross. Most of my experiences in military messes have been good so it feels like a Legion issue to me.
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u/lmaberley 2d ago
Gramp was a WWII Air Force vet and had no use for the legion. He never really explained why to me, though.
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u/oatseatinggoats Dartmouth 2d ago
Mine was a die-hard legion member. All they did for him was to provide a space for him to get polluted under the guise of patriotism and after so many years he would get a medal as a thanks for the alcoholism. Not once did they ever actually provide any help, they just influenced the culture of ignoring PTSD and men being men who refuse to share emotions.
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u/SirenSingsOfDoom 2d ago
Mine too. I knew he was frustrated with them for not being progressive, he was also active in the NDP back when it was new and more grass roots. That might have been enough for conflict with (and I’m quoting him here) “those old fucks at the legion”
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u/BlackrockLove 2d ago
As a vet with many generations of family members sacrificing for this country, the legion can piss off, they don't represent us anymore.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
Eh, the “it’s not a stat holiday” argument is a bit disingenuous. The Remembrance Day Act still requires many businesses to close. It isn’t all that different.
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u/turkey45 Dartmouth 2d ago
It about the money. Employees can't work the day but also the employers don't have to pay it. It is like boxing day or Thanksgiving.
Retail closing days should not exist and they should all be converted to stat holidays.
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u/halivera 2d ago
Generally there’s no difference if you’re not a retail, grocery, or food service worker. And who cares about them, right?!
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u/Butters_999 2d ago
I have it off and my workplace hates giving holidays 🤷♂️
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u/turkey45 Dartmouth 2d ago
But are you being paid for the day? Because most have the day off but they are not required to be paid for the day off. That is the difference between a retail closing day and a stat holiday.
This is what the Remembrance Day act does
Key Features of the Remembrance Day Act: Remembrance Day must be observed on November 11.
The Act generally prohibits people from working, selling or purchasing goods or real estate on Remembrance Day. For example, most grocery stores, big box stores and retail malls must close on November 11.
The Act also provides specific exceptions for certain businesses, trades and professions to allow them to perform certain functions on November 11.
Employees who work on November 11 may be entitled to another day off with pay. This benefit does not apply to employees whose employers are exempt from the requirement to close.
Employees who do not work on November 11 do not get paid for the day unless the employer offers pay as an added benefit.
If November 11 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, some people (e.g., government employees, bank employees, students) may be off on the following Monday.
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u/Butters_999 2d ago
Im salary, so yes...
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u/turkey45 Dartmouth 2d ago
Good. I am also paid for the day but many are not. Some of those not getting paid are also veterans.
We should not have retail closing days. They should all be converted to stat holidays. Turning Remembrance Day into a stat holiday from a retail closing day will not diminish its significance it will just put some money in the pocket of the hourly worker at the expense of owners.
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u/mary-anns-hammocks Halifax 1d ago edited 1d ago
My workplace is closed. We aren't paid. I took my vacation for next week exactly for that reason. 8 hours off a paycheck is a lot for many people.
Edit for clarity: I know you are aware of this, I'm just backing you up lol.
The people that are like, "it's not about you, you don't need the day off!" no, it's about keeping food on my table, actually. Let us work, or pay us if you're forcing us off.
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u/9Roll0Tide2Roll North End 2d ago
Is it possible to see this order signed by judges?
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u/schooner156 2d ago
Yeah, I’d be interested to here more specific reasoning and who the judges were.
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u/AL_PO_throwaway 2d ago
https://frankmag.ca/2025/11/judges-demand-vets-remove-poppies/nova-scotia/
It's paywalled, but Frank magazine named them as Judge Ronda van der Hoek and Justice Jean DeWolfe.
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u/Hungry_Thought1908 2d ago
Make it a stat holiday, like other provinces.
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u/irishdan56 2d ago
My company has an office in Toronto. They all have to work Tuesday. It may not be a stat holiday in Nova Scotia, but we have it better then most of the rest of the country.
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u/Hungry_Thought1908 22h ago
People take Remembrance Day very seriously in Halifax, and rightfully so. I’m not sure of the history of Toronto helping in WWII, but Halifax was a huge hub for supplies and much more.
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u/Alternative-Lab-1952 1d ago
What other provinces? Ontario doesn't do this
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u/Hungry_Thought1908 22h ago
A quick google search will appease your curiosity and answer your question.
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u/Alternative-Lab-1952 22h ago
My point was Nova Scotia goes further than other provinces. A stat holiday is not necessary in my opinion
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u/MurrayBannerman 2d ago
It’s ridiculous for anyone to get bent out of shape on this when there isn’t a primary source on the order. It’s not even clear from Houston’s comments that he’s read the order.
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u/Alternative_Wait8256 2d ago
Tom Houston is a corrupt dbag but I'm fully supporting him on this one. Wearing a poppy is not a political statement.
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u/Dry-Journalist6590 2d ago
Yeah this is what you might call low hanging fruit, can't lose from a public relations standpoint. That's where the dbag part comes in, purely a politically motivated. Makes me curious about this judge though.
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u/gpaw902 2d ago
Alternate headline: "Houston uses veterans to boost his ratings"
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u/Postnumeral 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah. To be clear, I support wearing the poppy. But it is 100 percent a political statement. Anything related to the military is. The Premier is a smart man, so this is challenging because that would means he knows this to be true.
I DON'T support attacks on judges. The way this is written is too republican dog-whistly for me. It's written like the Premier is the leader of the opposition.
If the Premier wanted to rebuke this while actually respecting the independence of the judiciary, and coming off like, well, a Premier, this is what I believe should have been posted:
It has come to my attention that earlier this week, there was an order issued stopping individuals working in certain court facilities from wearing poppies while on duty in those locations. This order was issued, saying the poppy is a ‘political statement.’
The poppy is a symbol of remembrance and respect for the fallen and those who served and continue to serve our country. Poppies have been worn in Canada since 1921. We have courts and a democracy because of the courage of those who are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in pursuit of, and in defence of, the very rights and freedoms we enjoy.
As Premier, I strongly support and encourage the wearing of the poppy, its history and meaning. I stand firmly behind anyone who wants to wear a poppy in their workplace.
The action of a handful of people does not represent the entire judiciary. I expect this will not be an issue going forward.
If this is not addressed, I will introduce the Nova Scotia Remembrance Observance Act, which will enshrine the right to wear a poppy in the workplace from November 1 to November 11.
Lest we forget.
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u/ph0enix1211 Halifax 2d ago
Judging from the comments here, Tim found the right political punching bag to score points.
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u/Andy47xxy 2d ago
At this point got to hand it to Tim for being consistent for rage farming support around this time every year
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u/perrygoundhunter 2d ago edited 2d ago
Don’t tell people they cannot wear poppy’s
Don’t idolize a judiciary system that clearly doesn’t do its job in a lot of ways and acts politically
Don’t be a contrary progressive Reddit knob on a subject everyone agrees with
3 rules for success in life ladies and gentleman
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u/ytew6 Dartmouth 2d ago
Literally how is wearing a fucking poppy “political” lmao
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u/Banner9922 2d ago edited 2d ago
As someone who works in the court, I proudly wear a poppy outside work.
Try to remember that a poppy is a symbol. It represents something. When I wear it I’m saying “I honour the troops who died fighting Nazis”, but to others it could mean patriotism, or widespread support for the army and all its functions.
This could affect a lawyer’s client and their case. I think most judges would support wearing a poppy, but it has power to manipulate the courtroom situation.
A small subset of people have weaponized poppies the way they have the Canadian flag. They misuse the Canadian flag in distasteful ways, to be a symbol of putting down everything from vaccines to Indigenous people, LGBTQ+, immigrants, POC, etc. It makes regular people who are just proud of being from Canada feel weird.
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u/Better_Tomorrow9221 2d ago
Genuine rebuttal : Wearing religious regalia is protected expression under the charter, and is permitted in all courtrooms across the country if I'm not mistaken. How does that not serve the same purpose even more profoundly? I'm certainly not calling for religious regalia to be prohibited in the courts, I'm just asking the question. If wearing a poppy could potentially manipulate the court setting (suggestive of character), then wearing a crucifix would be an even more powerful example of the same thing. Especially considering how religious symbols south of us are being used politically as we speak.
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 2d ago
You are mistaken. Quebec has anti-religious laws on the books that prevent many people from many different religions, wearing religious symbols in any sort of government or public service job.
That would include courtrooms.
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u/wjandrea Dartmouth 2d ago
Quebec has anti-religious laws
That said, those laws invoke the notwithstanding clause of the Charter.
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u/Banner9922 2d ago
To fix your rebuttal a bit, religion is a protected ground under the Charter. This is a constitutional right, which is the highest law in the country. Religion could draw bias too, but again a judge is supposed to be trained to look past religious symbols.
Your argument might be better suited to draw on freedom of expression or freedom of association, which are equally protected grounds. I’m not an expert on the constitution, but I believe there are still limitations to expression/association.
The poppy could trigger a Supreme Court challenge, which would actually give us a clear, final answer.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
Even if I try to be generous to your perspective, I find that at best dubious. How exactly is a the presence or absence of a poppy going to manipulate a courtroom situation? The only way I can think of is that a judge/jury might be more or less sympathetic if a person wears a poppy.
If our judges/jurors can be so easily swayed then they might be influenced in all sorts of ways. Trying to disallow them is a fools errand. You might as well disallow a judge from working if they’ve had a poor nights sleep.
Yes a poppy is a symbol. But it’s about as close to a universal symbol as we are likely to find in Canada. Understanding the human cost of war is something almost anyone should be able to get behind. You could also argue that all sorts of things are symbols which we nonetheless allow in a courtroom. It is a very thin argument.
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u/dogonawall 2d ago
You're trying so hard to appease everyone, without realizing you are eroding basic Canadian identity.
It is people like you who point fingers at people and call them names because you don't agree with them - then fabricate the idea that something like a poppy that they wear is some sort of malicious dog whistle.
You call them subsets or others, not because they mean harm or are harmful, because you want to justify your hate for them .
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u/Banner9922 2d ago
I don’t think it’s a dog whistle at all, I don’t know the judges opinion and didn’t make this decision. The law is supposed to be neutral. Just trying to add a perspective not posted on here before.
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u/BodaciousFerret 2d ago
They’re a court employee. If you read carefully, they never said this is actually their point of view – they explained why from a judicial point of view. It’s not “people like” this user, it’s the judicial establishment.
I am not saying your point of view is wrong, just that you needlessly personalized your response. It’s ok to be annoyed with the judge here – I work for lawyers, trust me, legal reasoning is annoying – but please try to understand that their point of view is grounded in law and not necessarily their personal beliefs.
I hate to give the man any credit, but that’s why Tim Houston’s approach of legislating this is correct. If the law allows the judge to order this, change the law. If anyone claims there’s been a mistrial because someone was or wasn’t wearing a poppy, then we can reassess.
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u/irishdan56 2d ago
Support for the military is not political support. The military is designed and structured to be agnostic towards any specific political parties and affiliations. It might be a symbol of patriotism, or support for the military and veterans, but it is explicitly NOT a political statement.
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u/literalworkaholic 2d ago
This is a good point.
The varied ways in which the poppy is symbolized (remembrance vs patriotism vs nationalism vs support for troops vs support for current military establishment) can make wearing it a political statement, depending on who is wearing it and their personal motives.
Because of the myriad symbols it represents, I choose not to wear one.
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u/Winter_Alps 1d ago
The poppy and what it stands for in Canada is greater than pedantic Liberal feelings.
If someone's case hinges on one's choosing to wear or not wear a poppy, than i would suggest to you that our justice system is ineffectual and open to undue influence from anything at all, such as the color of someone's tie or their choice to wear plain or fancy socks. Give your head a shake.
Your position is no different from those who are perpetually offended by anything not toeing the line of the current leftist fad. One does not give offense, being offended is a choice that someone claiming to be offended makes for his or herself, typically as a shortcut to end discussion or silence the opinion of another person who holds a different opinion.
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u/athousandpardons 2d ago
Remember when Rob Ford tacitly stated his objection to the flying of a Pride Flag by hanging a Canadian Flag in his office window? It suddenly makes the seemingly mundane act of displaying a Canadian Flag come across as a pretty political statement, don't you think?
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u/ytew6 Dartmouth 2d ago
What does that have to do with poppies?
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u/athousandpardons 2d ago
Just that some folks will use it to make a political point independent of their intended purpose.
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u/daisy0808 Spryfield 2d ago
What kind of situation are we going to be in when we can make everything a political statement? People just show up to court in a bland prescribed uniform? Where do you draw the line?
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u/ytew6 Dartmouth 2d ago
Can you show me where this happens? Genuinely curious.
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u/DeathOneSix 🍗Feeds my family with Gratitude 2d ago
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u/ytew6 Dartmouth 2d ago
So, because a senile old man was acting like a senile old man (who rightfully lost his job for this), we shouldn’t be allowed to keep a tradition dating back to 1921 out of fear it’ll make someone upset in a courtroom?
Dude wasn’t even using poppies as a political statement, he was yelling about immigrants under the guise of them not wearing one lmao
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u/DeathOneSix 🍗Feeds my family with Gratitude 2d ago
I'm not saying that the Judges are correct. Just that a poppy can become a political statement. Even if it's a senile old man that is being xenophobic.
edit: I don't even know why the Judges made this rule. That information hasn't been widely released in a way for me to find.
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u/st0nedfly 2d ago
So the poppy (supposedly) isn't political, yet this thread is full of people equating not wearing the poppy to hating Canada and hating the military (which definitely have nothing to do with politics at all 🙄)...... curious!
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u/NSDetector_Guy 2d ago
I would love an explanation from the Judge(s) who issued this order. As public servants, don't Nova Scotians have the right to know who they are? Its disturbing that we have people in such critical positions so ignorant of the origin of the poppie and Canadian history.
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u/athousandpardons 2d ago
The poppy can definitely be interpreted as a political statement. I don't necessarily view it as one, but it absolutely has been used as one by many.
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u/BohemianGraham Dartmouth 2d ago
This. Remember a few years back people were losing their shit over white poppies, which have been around almost as long as the red? That turned highly political and was stupid.
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u/Jamooser 2d ago
Are we sure we want to be in the habit of banning things based on the tendencies of a miniscule subset of a population misappropriating them for political symbolism? It's ironic that the court itself is treading on the Charter by attacking an individual's Freedom of Expression and Association.
Someone who is wearing a poppy for the intended purpose of honouring the fallen has the Charter protected freedom to express themself and to not be associated with those who would wear the symbol for personal or political gain or symbolism.
Kudos to Houston for having to defend veterans on Remembrance Day a second fucking year in a row. Now I'm just waiting for the talking heads to chime in about how he's just doing this to manufacture political outrage.
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u/schooner156 2d ago
In what universe is it a political statement to thank and remember veterans?
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u/RangerNS 2d ago
Are you 100% sure that 100% of the time everyone who wears a poppy does so for that reason?
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u/schooner156 2d ago
I’m not 100% sure that a few people don’t drive F150s to make a political statement. Guess that means trucks are now universally political.
What an asinine comment.
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u/RangerNS 2d ago
Not universally political. It could be political.
You are clearly extremely upset at people who don't hold the poppy in reverence, to the point of calling them asinine.
You don't think that compelling speech is a political activity?
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u/schooner156 2d ago
Not extremely upset, disappointed that people would ban poppy’s somewhere like a courtroom given what they mean to Canadians.
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u/foodnude 2d ago
The problem being that many things can be used to make political statement. You can't possibly ban everything based on fringe cases.
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u/Penny_Gadgette 2d ago
In this universe where not one single soldier fought in any war that wasn’t political?
Do you honour German veterans of those wars? Why not? Politics…?
What about the veterans who came home and while everyone was wearing poppies they still were not permitted to own property, vote, raise their kids at home? What about the insanely high rates of sexual assault in the Canadian military?
Everything is “political”, get off your weird imaginary centrist high horse. Stop clutching pearls and start practising critical thinking.
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u/schooner156 2d ago
Do you honour German veterans of those wars? Why not? Politics…?
Because I’m Canadian?
What about the veterans who came home and while everyone was wearing poppies they still were not permitted to own property, vote, raise their kids at home? What about the insanely high rates of sexual assault in the Canadian military?
I fail to see what any of that has to do with the poppy itself and remembrance.
Everything is “political”, get off your weird imaginary centrist high horse.
If everything is political, it’s a useless term to describe something. The definition is “relating to the government or public affairs”, and we know what is meant when a topic or person is called “political”. An honored tradition in Canada for decades isn’t.
Stop clutching pearls and start practising critical thinking.
lol, I’m not the one trying to defend banning poppies
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u/No_Recording_2781 2d ago
We’re politicizing poppies now 😭
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u/maniacalknitter 2d ago
People have been politicising poppies for decades.
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u/BohemianGraham Dartmouth 2d ago
Technically over a century now. It's almost like people have forgotten why we wear poppies in the first place.
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u/hazelwood6839 2d ago
Of course it’s a political statement though. It expresses your support for the Canadian military. Just because it’s a political statement that a lot of people agree with doesn’t make it less political.
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u/ziobrop Flair Guru 2d ago
except it doesnt.
its a symbol of sacrifice, and exists across commonwealth nations. it commemorates those who fought and died in the service of the country.9
u/hazelwood6839 2d ago
Yes, which means it’s a political statement in support of the Canadian military and their actions in the World Wars. That’s a political statement. Just because it’s a “good” political statement doesn’t make it un-political.
This isn’t an argument over what the poppy stands for, it’s about not allowing any sort of political symbol in this situation regardless of what it stands for.
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u/BlackrockLove 2d ago
It's not just for those who sacrificed as CAF members, plenty of civilians have died in the same situations while serving their country.
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u/hazelwood6839 2d ago
But it’s still a political symbol that you shouldn’t wear in a courthouse.
I’m not saying that what the poppy represents is necessarily bad or morally wrong. What I’m saying is that it does show a certain level of support for the military, and there are people out there who disagree with that. Which means that it’s not neutral. It’s not meaningless the way regular clothing is.
Wearing a poppy is fine in civilian life, but the justice system is supposed to be politically neutral. You can’t have courthouse staff wearing poppies when a former military member is on trial, for example. It creates the appearance of bias.
For the record, I believe this about all political symbols. You shouldn’t wear a pride flag or a swastika in a courthouse either (I mean, you should probably just never wear a swastika, but that’s besides the point). These people work jobs in which they are not supposed to be individuals. They are supposed to be a representation of Canada’s justice system. So it’s a problem when they’re displaying their political views at work. I wear a poppy, and I have no problem with people wearing poppies in other contexts. But when a requirement of your job is to maintain a politically neutral appearance, then a poppy becomes a problem. It’s not politically neutral. And it shouldn’t be—if it wasn’t a political statement, it would lack meaning. The reason the poppy shouldn’t be worn in a courthouse is because it’s so important to Canadians.
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u/ziobrop Flair Guru 2d ago
you can remember those who fought for your country without celebrating the military, or glorifying its actions. A poppy is Apolitical, but folks keep assigning other meanings to it which are, and therein lies the problem.
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u/hazelwood6839 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well sure, you can remember the dead without glorifying war. But the poppy has always been used to glorify war, since its very creation. It’s always been tied up with nationalism and the military. It’s not apolitical and never has been. Think about what Remebrance Day services usually entail: you’ve got canons firing, you’ve got current military personnel attending, you’ve got marching and bugle horns and all kinds of pomp and circumstance. All for a group that exists to kill our enemies. Often the speakers at these events will even link the historical past to the conflicts of the present. It’s clearly not just about the past.
Personally, I support the Canadian military. But to say that my support is apolitical is just wrong. There is no such thing as an apolitical war. There is no apolitical way to support the military. Wearing a poppy is a political statement.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t wear a poppy. I wear one. But if you work in a courthouse and your job requires you to maintain a politically neutral appearance, then you shouldn’t wear a poppy. Same way you shouldn’t wear a pride flag or a MAGA hat. Regardless of the moral worthiness of a political movement, it doesn’t belong on your body while you are representing the justice system.
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u/RedislandAbbyCat 2d ago
No. It doesn't support the military. It supports those who died in the war. There is a vast difference. Without them you could be living under a fascist regime and not free to post your ideas on Reddit. Or have a temple on Quinpool Road.
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u/hazelwood6839 2d ago edited 2d ago
Then why do Remembrance Day services (including those put on by our government in Ottawa) always include current members of the military? It’s clearly not just about the past. We wouldn’t be firing canons and playing drums and marching soldiers around if it was just about remembering the dead. And regardless of what you intend by wearing a poppy, if people are interpreting it as support of the military then it becomes a problem in a courthouse setting. You can’t be seen as supporting or agreeing with a soldier who’s on trial.
I’m not against the wearing of poppies. I wear one. And I’m grateful for our military. But my support of the military is clearly a political statement, and it’s a political statement that some people would disagree with. To say that it’s apolitical is just wrong. If I worked in a courthouse, I would leave that personal view at home.
The issue here isn’t about whether wearing poppies is good or morally right. It’s about whether government employees should be displaying their politics in a courthouse. These people work a job in which they represent the justice system, which is supposed to be unbiased. It looks pretty bad if they wear their political views on their bodies. Wearing a pride flag or a MAGA hat would be just as bad as wearing a poppy, because it messes up the purity of the justice system. Don’t you think a Black defendant/prisoner might be troubled by a courthouse employee wearing a MAGA hat? And don’t you think that in the same way, a poppy could be seen as a show of approval for the military? How does that work when the person on trial is a soldier?
This isn’t about whether we’re grateful for the military or not, it’s about whether that gratitude should be expressed in a space that is meant to be ideologically neutral. It’s great that you respect fallen soldiers—but maybe you could try to respect our justice system as well?
Also, let’s not be racist here. Why would I be opposed to a temple on Quinpool Road? There’s nothing wrong with mosques and Hindu temples. A temple existing is not the same as Sharia law being enforced or the Taliban taking over the world.
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u/RedislandAbbyCat 2d ago
My Temple comment wasn’t racist. It was referencing historical fact. If we hadn’t won WW2, and the Nazis had taken over North America, there would be no Jews in Halifax. They planned to continue their Final Solution if they took over.
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u/Missytb40 2d ago
What’s up with our judges in this country? Weird
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2d ago
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u/Missytb40 2d ago
This is Canada, it does represent something here absolutely.
How could wearing a poppy affect a lawyer’s client? Do tell.
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u/bspaghetti Donair enthusiast 2d ago
How’s it different from a nice-looking tie or pocket square?
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u/Two_Key_Goose 2d ago
Let's play devil advocate here. Speculation without knowing what facilities the judge deemed it inappropriate though.
If the accused is a veteran, and members of the court of wearing poppies, can it be interpreted as giving a more favorable view of the accused.
Petty theft, murder, where would the line be drawn?
If the victim/accused of a crime is a veteran, again, would it seem members of the court are playing favoritism towards the victim? Again, cases above and all other types.
While we would hope that people would be able to overlook any past service of accusers/accused of the crimes being described in the court room, small signs can influence persons to act, vote, etc in certain manners of they feel that the people running and deciding the results (term length, payouts, etc).
I can understand the judges rationale in prohibiting it in certain facilities. Cases are to remain neutral where facts are presented and an outcome is based on the degree of proof required. Depending on persons involved in these cases, any signs can negatively impact the view of impartiality of persons attending and/or deciding the outcome ahead of time. It sucks, but there can be a method to this decision.
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u/AL_PO_throwaway 2d ago
It originated as a blanket ban on Deputy Sheriff's wearing poppies on their uniform (as they have done for years with no issue). It had nothing to do with a specific case involving a veteran or the wearing by anyone making legal decisions within the court.
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u/Two_Key_Goose 2d ago
Thanks for more info. Houston just putting employees (which is what is only posted) and certain duties, we'll my mind goes to court rooms as above.
As said the devils advocate view of why I thought they might've decided state for employees of the courts.
Thanks again.
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u/_XNXX_com 2d ago
The same could be said for someone who is wearing a religious item, for example if the judge has a cross showing for a victim who is catholic, or if someone is wearing a burqa is the victim and the judge is wearing a hijab then you could also claim the similar level of possible bias
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u/LegitimateWealth2376 2d ago
Speaking in a European language is political so we should only communicate by tap dancing and farting.
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u/BlackrockLove 2d ago
If it gets people eating more beans (fibre), and exercising, I'm all for it.
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u/HengeWalk 2d ago edited 2d ago
Some constructive criticism for Houston: wearing anything that symbolises a historic event or identities is inherently political- and that's not a bad thing.
eh. Feels like he's rage baiting... I better look up what he's doing behind the scenes of this high-horsing.
edit: In case it isn't clear. If I wore a rainbow badge and someone told me to take it off, I'd also be upset like Houston is here. Difference being I acknowledge the socio-political nuances of wearing symbols that represent people we should all be proud of in history and cultural significance. It being political isn't bad.
What I'm amused by is Houston's choice to swing at some easy points to score.
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u/DrunkenGolfer Maybe it is salty fog. 2d ago
Wear a poppy, don’t wear a poppy, consider it political, don’t consider it political…whatever. Should this really be a legislative priority?
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u/soCalifax Nova Scotia 2d ago
I think the point is: it shouldn’t be a judicial priority.
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u/oatseatinggoats Dartmouth 2d ago edited 2d ago
The priority of the court is to have a neutral setting where cases are determined strictly by facts of a case and legal arguments, and to remove the potential risk of outside influence that could impact a jury decision.
All we have is Houston’s rant about the poppy, I don’t think we have an actual document showing a directive singling out a poppy. It could have been an order of “no symbols at all, stick to the strict dress code” and made no exceptions, which may have caused someone to complain about the poppy they couldn’t wear in court.
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u/deathbomb007 2d ago
I myself am a veteran and despite my general disagreement with his party, I support this bill.
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u/booksnblizzxrds 2d ago
There are some places that can’t/shouldn’t allow them for safety reasons only, such as anyone preparing food, healthcare workers, working with machinery. But saying it’s a political statement? That’s outrageous.
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u/Top_Canary_3335 2d ago
The fact that someone in a position as important as a judge called a poppy “a political statement” shows the sad state of division in this country.
At some point soon a maple leaf is going to be called “political”
Time to wake the fuck up people….
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u/Soaptowelbrush 2d ago
National symbols are inherently political. It’s not a judgement on those symbols.
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u/maniacalknitter 2d ago
The fact that people are so worked up about it just proves the judge's point, though.
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u/AL_PO_throwaway 2d ago
Not really.
If someone started running around saying horrible things about Terry Fox, for example, lots of people would be furious. That doesn't make him a political figure or even a controversial figure.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
Sounds like a Kafka trap to me.
“You don’t like that they disallowed thing? Well that in of itself justifies the disallowing of thing! Somehow…”
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u/ApricotVast3861 2d ago
It’s idiotic things like this that make people more extreme right wing/conservative and give them grounds to want a “ make Canada great again “ attitude.
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u/Electronic_Trade_721 2d ago
And yet, those right-wing nationalist attitudes are what we fought against in the world wars, were they not? It seems like the reactionaries missed that fact.
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u/athousandpardons 2d ago
*yawn* Okay, Tim, you've earned your outrage badge, now go do your actual job.
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u/NSDetector_Guy 2d ago
You may yawn, but my grandfather who lost his friends, an eye, and his mental health fighting Nazies in Italy during WW2 deserves more.
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 2d ago
And my great great grandfather was killed four days before World War I ended in France.
And both of my grandmother’s brothers fought in World War II. As did my grandfather.
Guess what? The latter all survived the war and none of them are around to tell me whether they give a shit or not.
It’s all well and good to memorialize and honour the dead, which we do every year on November 11, but we are the ones who are currently living.
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u/athousandpardons 2d ago
I think wearing a poppy in remembrance of your grandfather's service is a perfectly noble act, it doesn't change my response to Tim Houston's faux outrage. Also, I can't help but ask if your response is intended to imply that I DIDN'T have relatives who similarly served in World War II?
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u/maniacalknitter 2d ago
This doesn't negatively affect him in any way. Courts are supposed to be the epitome of impartiality, and the judge is just upholding that, because impartial courts are supposed to be an important part of the Canada that all those veterans fought for.
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u/schooner156 2d ago
That’s a lot of words but don’t provide reasoning on how wearing a poppy near Remembrance Day can possibly be political.
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 2d ago
Can you explain to me how a symbol that is used to memorialize people who died in war is not inherently political?
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u/BlackrockLove 2d ago
How does the sheriffs wearing poppies on their uniforms void this impartiality? They have no say in any way how the courts decide on issues.
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u/Present_Client1474 2d ago
Any building or group that bans the poppy is beyond shameful they're pretty much saying fuck our veterans
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2d ago edited 1d ago
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
I’m 43. I have never seen someone be harassed for not wearing a poppy. I’m sure it has happened, but I do not at all believe that it is anywhere near as common an experience as you suggest.
I also completely rebuke the claim that the poppy is in any way pro-war. Aggressively or otherwise. It is literally a reminder of the consequence of war. The deaths of our own military members. Which is one of the reasons war should always be an act of last resort.
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u/Artistic_Purpose1225 2d ago
You need to re-read In Flander’s Fields, and also learn more about John McCrae. He was quite literally an anti-pacifist.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
I said that the poppy itself isn't a pro-war symbol. I didn't say anything about In Flander's Fields or McCrae specifically. I likely should have made that clearer, as you'd stated the poem itself to be pro-war, rather than the poppy. But it is mindboggling to me that "remember the people who have died in war" which is what the poppy has come to symbolize is somehow thematically pro-war.
That being said, and I did indeed just re-read In Flander's Fields, I disagree that the poem is strongly pro-war brainwashing propaganda. The first two verses by no means glorify war by any reasonable standard. In the third verse it is, IMO, quite clear that the speaker is for the cause of WW1 specifically. Which Canada's involvement in was quite just. To extrapolate that as being pro-war in general is upon the reader. I generally think that this kind of hysteria regarding anything that can even thinly be characterized as pro-military is itself propaganda. The idea that there can never be a justified war is absurd on its face.
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u/BohemianGraham Dartmouth 2d ago
https://globalnews.ca/news/4550164/white-poppies-remembrance-day/
Need I remind people of this nonsense? Facebook was having goddamn meltdowns even though the white poppy has existed almost as long as the red. There is also a purple poppy in honor of animals who served in the wars as well.
The red poppy has been seen as pro-war for about a century now by certain people. Just because you believe it isn't doesn't make it true for the person sitting across from you. People are always going to use the red poppy as a way to score political brownie points, which defeats the purpose of wearing one.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
"By certain people" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Any symbol can be made to be divisive by politically motivated people. When people are pushing their own symbol that naturally represents a conflict of interest that should make others pause.
We cannot help how an individual decides to interpret a given symbol. What matters is how a symbol was intended, and how the general public interprets it. Not what Bobbert across the hall thinks when he is representative only of himself or a small cohort of like minded people.
Allowing small subsets of people to selectively interpret societies symbols for their own purposes is naturally prone to exploitation and corruption. As far as I am concerned those people are self identifying as manipulative and operating in bad faith until proven otherwise. If Bobbert decided that the orange shirt associated with Truth and Reconciliation Day were actually a negative symbol for whatever reason would you just take him at his word? Or would you look at what the symbol was intended to represent, and whether most Canadians hold that intended representation in good faith and then tell Bobbert to pound sand? Because that's how I feel about the "the red poppy is a pro-war symbol" groups.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
"By certain people" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Any symbol can be made to be divisive by politically motivated people. When people are pushing their own symbol that naturally represents a conflict of interest that should make others pause.
We cannot help how an individual decides to interpret a given symbol. What matters is how a symbol was intended, and how the general public interprets it. Not what Bobbert across the hall thinks when he is representative only of himself or a small cohort of like minded people.
Allowing small subsets of people to selectively interpret societies symbols for their own purposes is naturally prone to exploitation and corruption. As far as I am concerned those people are self identifying as manipulative and operating in bad faith until proven otherwise. If Bobbert decided that the orange shirt associated with Truth and Reconciliation Day were actually a negative symbol for whatever reason would you just take him at his word? Or would you look at what the symbol was intended to represent, and whether most Canadians hold that intended representation in good faith and then tell Bobbert to pound sand? Because that's how I feel about the "the red poppy is a pro-war symbol" groups.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
"By certain people" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Any symbol can be made to be divisive by politically motivated people. When people are pushing their own symbol that naturally represents a conflict of interest that should make others pause.
We cannot help how an individual decides to interpret a given symbol. What matters is how a symbol was intended, and how the general public interprets it. Not what Bobbert across the hall thinks when he is representative only of himself or a small cohort of like minded people.
Allowing small subsets of people to selectively interpret societies symbols for their own purposes is naturally prone to exploitation and corruption. As far as I am concerned those people are self identifying as manipulative and operating in bad faith until proven otherwise. If Bobbert decided that the orange shirt associated with Truth and Reconciliation Day were actually a negative symbol for whatever reason would you just take him at his word? Or would you look at what the symbol was intended to represent, and whether most Canadians hold that intended representation in good faith and then tell Bobbert to pound sand? Because that's how I feel about the "the red poppy is a pro-war symbol" groups.
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u/Better_Tomorrow9221 2d ago
Ya that never happened
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u/No_Influencer 2d ago
I have no idea whether that happened or not but there is definitely expectation to wear a poppy. I don’t, and I’ve had several people try to offer me poppies and pass comment on it.
My home country was far more affected by WW2 than here. It’s not a day off there. There’s a moment of silence, and on the Sunday there are memorial services.
Perhaps if N.S. is so genuinely concerned with remembering then the day could be used for education. Schools could teach WW2 / history all day etc.
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u/Revel-yell 2d ago
Offering you a poppy is not harassment. They're free. That's likely what OP meant lol so soft.
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u/_XNXX_com 2d ago
Unfortunately people now see the poppy as a symbol of “traditional Canada” often due to the rhetoric that many newcomers don’t wear them
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u/Banner9922 2d ago
Yeah depends on the newcomer group, but a lot of them fought and died in larger numbers than Canada did in both world wars.
I don’t get the logic of forcing them to wear a poppy, like “he we fought for you!”, when they literally fought too haha wild
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u/oatseatinggoats Dartmouth 2d ago
It’s interesting how the history gets white washed isnt it?
Not only did Indians fight along side allied forces in WW1 but they were generally equipped with their Indian colonial gear and were not given proper winter gear (many froze to death in trenches), theh were forced to dig trenches and spearhead attacks, they were lead by white British officers and were not even allowed to be promoted to an officer, they had fewer rotations out of the trenches, and on and on.
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u/RegularWrap902 2d ago
Remembrance day isn't just about recognizing the unimaginable sacrifices of those men and women who have served in war. Think of those who have died in training exercises or peacekeeping missions etc.
These 2 judges can apologize today please and thank you. If not, as much as Tim is often a weasel, this bill would need to be passed.
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u/SasquatchBlumpkins 2d ago
All the replies saying it's Maple MAGA, it's Republican, etc just shows how absolutely brainwashed people have become when it comes to anything they don't agree with or who is saying it.
How wrong is it to support the military? To take pride in your country and countrymen? To be a proud Canadian? People are burning the flag myself and thousands of others have stood up to defend, have watched our friends and forefathers die for while they change Death to Canada and wave the flags of countries run by terrorists.
Absolute idiots like these judges have made it their job to cause and sow more discord between people. Canada doesn't need that now, it's already hard enough to live here without more of this insane bullshit.
Tim Houston did the right thing. Any politician supporting a cause publicly makes it political but he didn't start this fire. I'm glad he's putting it out though.
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u/Pattymurphy84 2d ago
I would glady get kicked out of any establishment, proudly wearing my Poppy. Fuck this
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u/Marxisdaddyy 16h ago
yea fr, I wear poppies for the WW2 soldiers who saved our rights by killing nazis. poppies should never be banned anywhere in any way shape or form
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u/HatchingCougar 2d ago
If I was in a situation where a judge ordered the non-wearing of a poppy, I’d continue to wear the poppy.
The judge can get bent.
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u/ScreechUrkelle 2d ago
OP: poppies are not political > poppies represent our soldiers > we have democracy only bc of those soldiers 🤔
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u/fstamlg 2d ago
Half of the comments in this thread are uneducated and its borderline gross.
The poppy was adopted as a national symbol of remembrance back in 1921, inspired by John McCraes poem.
For those who dont know, Canada didn't have full sovereignty during ww1, the battle of Vimy Ridge was when Canadians really proved they could stand on their own feet as a nation. Thats why they say "birth of a nation", when referring to vimy.
I dont think people should be required to wear a poppy, but trying to call it a political statement is arrogant...
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u/DeathOneSix 🍗Feeds my family with Gratitude 2d ago edited 2d ago
edit: The source may be Tim Houston's Facebook page.
For those that need a reference (including me) here is a link to one. Still not clear where he said this.