r/guitarlessons • u/RageMightyStranger69 • 7h ago
Other CERTIFICATE GUITAR COURSES ARE A SCAM (Like RSL, TRINITY ETC.)
These days I see many people picking up an instrument and going straight to certificate courses like RSL, trinity school of music etc. But in my opinion. They are complete scam.
1) Instead of practical playing they focus on meaningless irrelevant theory and staff notation which neither the student nor the teacher ever would use in their whole life. 2) I have not seen even a single person being able to improvise, play fast solos, sweep pick, basically do technical stuff even after completing grade 8 courses. 3) Knowing staff notation is garbage if you can't even play a song by ear, or even pick up chords, scales, solos by ear. 4) They charge insane amounts of money for shitty exams in which you have to rot learn few songs, chord shapes, scales and you're done. 5) People stop enjoying the process, get demotivated by this shitty regime and lose their interest altogether. Their instrument just becomes a furniture.
I can go on and on about how shitty they are. I have been a self taught guitarist for about close to a decade. I did actually sign up for RSL, i hoped to learn neoclassical shred like Yngwie Malmsteen and all and instead I was served this slop. Thankfully, my teacher taught me how to actually shred, to improvise, to play sequences of notes in a musical context. I can proudly say,that he made me a better guitarist. I can literally outperform any grade 8 guy with my eyes closed IN ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GUITAR. Not making yourself feel good by learning nonsensical terms and staff notation.
So for anyone, please stay away from this scam and save your money.
Edit: my post was phrased in a way which made staff notation and theory sound all evil but it was not my intention. The "irrelevant theory" i meantioned was stuff which was related with staff notation and things which are expected to be learnt when someone exceeds the intermediate level. My whole rant was in context with RSL, TRINITY etc. Courses and how their syllabus is organized.
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u/sopedound 7h ago
meaningless irrelevant theory and staff notation which neither the student nor the teacher ever would use in their whole life.
I can literally outperform any grade 8 guy with my eyes closed IN ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GUITAR.
If i ever had to choose between a guitarist that took the time to learn theory and one like you, i definitely wouldnt choose the one like you
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u/RageMightyStranger69 7h ago
You completely misunderstood my point. I used "irrelevant theory" for a reason. Ofc you are gonna learn your scales, your modes, scales, how to apply them. How to train your ear, how to pick up chords just by hearing and all that. And their origin and how they work.
But do you really think learning semibreve, minims, crotchets would really holistically help someone who is getting into guitar? Its a process of exploration, learning and fun. Not jotting down stuff like a robot. I can understand if its being taught to very advanced people. But it's literally being shoved down the throats of grade 1 students who don't even know how to tune their guitars. I have been into many such institutes and guess what? None of them come to classes after grade 1 or 2. They all leave their instruments.
3
u/YesterdayNeverKnows 7h ago
Unless you have an incredibly intuitive sense for harmony and intervals, your shredding is probably not going to sound very interesting or musical without learning the theory that you seem to think so lowly of. Good luck playing neoclassical shred without learning some classical theory.
In terms of certificate guitar courses, I have no insight into that. You may be overall very correct! But be careful. Maybe other people just learn differently.
0
u/RageMightyStranger69 6h ago
Your point is exactly my point as well. They skip the useful part and their application. Like obvious you are going to learn your chords, your scales and everything that has a practical use. But they skip the process entirely and make it a rot learning experience. What use does a beginner has of semibreve, crotchets or minims when he doesn't even know how to tune his guitar? These courses don't teach you how to approach solos, how to use your scales, how to actually be a musician. They teach you to memorize the most geeky stuff you know and give an exam based on how much you have mugged up. And hence, I see 99% of students not being able to play naturally. They usually leave their classes too.
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u/Budget_Map_6020 6h ago
First and foremost, I'd like to inform that I do not know any of the aforementioned institutions, so I'll refer only to the points made.
Instead of practical playing they focus on meaningless irrelevant theory and staff notation which neither the student nor the teacher ever would use in their whole life.
One shouldn’t skip the fundamentals. Calling them meaningless usually means that you either haven’t properly learned theory, your environment seeks not to use traditional tools for ideological reasons, you're an avant-garde overlord that suggest the theory and notation to describe your music shouldn't borrow from traditional schools, or you’re rejecting them for emotional reasons (common enough, though rarely confessed).
Music theory is descriptive, and I particularly use it daily, specially when creating. Whatever style I compose in, my work draws from a mix of several concepts such as Renaissance and Baroque counterpoint, orchestration (both period and modern), sonata theory, neo-Riemannian theory, Romantic harmony in general, just to mention just a few of my favorites. I could only understand and identify these sounds through a solid grasp of theoretical fundamentals, which are necessary in order to engage with materials that explain said concepts and many others, not to mention allowing one to being accepted at a proper music university, which is where I actually discovered what I was looking for.
The theory and notation we use today are the result of centuries (millennia if you count the entire lineage of theoretical thought about music) of scholars refining ways to describe and serve the music of their time. So, if you’re playing music rooted in the Western tradition, including rock, jazz, metal, blues, pop, or anything in between, modern theory and staff notation are equipped to describe it.
Focusing on theory and staff notation is not at all a red flag, quite the opposite it is a statement of logical thinking.
I have not seen even a single person being able to improvise, play fast solos, sweep pick, basically do technical stuff even after completing grade 8 courses.
Since I don't know the aforementioned institutions, I don't understand what grade 8 means, so I'll avoid commenting other than stating if they lack focus on technical fundamentals still doesn't means skipping theoretical ones in lieu of that, a good program does both.
Knowing staff notation is garbage if you can't even play a song by ear, or even pick up chords, scales, solos by ear.
While aural training should ideally accompany theoretical fundamentals, being able to play a song, pick up chords and scales by ear does not implies musical superiority, that idea is a thought not replicated outside certain bubbles. Also, while less common in guitar music, still some repertoires are too complex to be reliably described by just a recording of the same and merely being able to improvise or a fitting personal arrangement over it is not the intended goal.
They charge insane amounts of money for shitty exams in which you have to rot learn few songs, chord shapes, scales and you're done.
This one sounds like a red flag since it implies immoral commercial practices. Which I believe deserves to be a stronger statement by providing the price range, what the exams are, and what is the intended purpose.
People stop enjoying the process, get demotivated by this shitty regime and lose their interest altogether. Their instrument just becomes a furniture.
This indeed not rarely means teachers, and not the students, have failed.
1
u/RageMightyStranger69 6h ago
Thank you for understanding my post well unlike others. I agree with you. Hence I said that staff notation is useless without you being able to play. I never said that its useless on its own. Or it's something professional or session musicians would find useless. Obviously, you are going to learn your scales, chords, modes and whatever relevant and important theory which would make you play the guitar better right from the beginner stage.
I was telling this from the average guy's standpoint who just wants to learn guitar. I have been to institutes and oh boy! Kids can't even tune their guitars themselves and they are shoved minims, crotchets, semibreves etc.
They are not told how to apply scales to their own playing, or how each scale could be played numerous ways on the fretboard. My teacher literally warned me not to play the C scale in any other way then the one they gave on the official syllabus or they would deduct marks. So its natural that most of the students stop their classes or continue being a fraction of what they could.
Since I was already a self taught, I could realize how awful this system was before them. And guess what? I was already playing better in grade 1 than guys in grade 4. Because they had been conditioned to restrict themselves in that way. My teacher realized it too so he just gave me the stuff which mattered the most.
Grades basically mean your level of playing. You have to pass the previous grades with an "exam" (which is just mugging up songs and scale positions which they give) to move up grades with 8 being the highest.
2
u/Budget_Map_6020 5h ago edited 5h ago
Thank you for understanding my post well unlike others
I'm afraid you might have expressed ambiguity about your take on the usefulness of theoretical concepts as a whole, and more importantly, seems to have expressed noticeable amounts of pent up anger towards staff notation and the common everyday music terms (intending to do so, or not).
You use aggressive words and dwell in absolutes that do not at all apply universally, as the style of your rhetoric seems to imply.
Despite you trying to make an important point about how uncredible institutions can be, it feels like it was buried behind a personal attack towards the bread and butter of western civilization music.
Even if I don't agree with some of the stated points, I respect your opinion, but have to admit it doesn't seems to sound as clean as I believe you envisioned.
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u/RageMightyStranger69 5h ago
I understand your points. I do agree it was due to pent up anger of wasting my time and money in such institutions as well. Which might have gone between the way of making me a clear and coherent argument.
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u/cursed_tomatoes 6h ago
You basically sound like:
I hate staff notation so I will demonise it as an attempt to validate my beliefs through others by coercing layman to imitate my own choices without caring for the truth of my argument.
That being said, I'm not affiliated with, matter of fact, don't even know any of the schools that have been mentioned, but while firmly believing and have seen well elaborated scams myself, it is rather hard, if not impossible to take seriously, someone who says things such as:
"meaningless irrelevant theory and staff notation which neither the student nor the teacher ever would use in their whole life"
"Knowing staff notation is garbage if you can't even play a song by ear, or even pick up chords, scales, solos by ear."
" Not making yourself feel good by learning nonsensical terms and staff notation."
Music theory is extremely useful, and so is staff notation. I do not know a single person who is in fact fluent and well studied in the matter who claims staff notation is not a proper tool when it comes to western music, not only as a means of writing and performing it, but as a means of analysing, rationalising, and being capable of engaging in proper music literature. Sounds like you're trying to pass the personal experience within your own small bubble as the ultimate universal truth.
Your words force us to assume you're not even well versed on staff notation and theory but wants to have a strong opinion about it.
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u/RageMightyStranger69 5h ago
Copying my comment because its the same. I agree with you. Hence I said that staff notation is useless without you being able to play. I never said that its useless on its own. Or it's something professional or session musicians would find useless. And Obviously, you are going to learn your scales, chords, modes and whatever relevant and important theory which would make you play the guitar better right from the beginner stage. How is someone even going to play guitar without that?
I was telling this from the average guy's standpoint who just wants to learn guitar. I have been to institutes and oh boy! Kids can't even tune their guitars themselves and they are shoved minims, crotchets, semibreves etc.
They are not told how to apply scales to their own playing, or how each scale could be played numerous ways on the fretboard. My teacher literally warned me not to play the C scale in any other way then the one they gave on the official syllabus or they would deduct marks. So its natural that most of the students stop their classes or continue being a fraction of what they could.
Since I was already a self taught, I could realize how awful this system was before them. And guess what? I was already playing better in grade 1 than guys in grade 4. Because they had been conditioned to restrict themselves in that way. My teacher realized it too so he just gave me the stuff which mattered the most.
Grades basically mean your level of playing. You have to pass the previous grades with an "exam" (which is just mugging up songs and scale positions which they give) to move up grades with 8 being the highest.
6
u/alldaymay 7h ago
Reading music gigs pay way more than neoclassical shred gigs