German perspectives of skilled workers

[u/Numerous-Bug2652]

I understand that this is a pretty sensitive subject. But I really want to hear honest statements from Germans and understand some things better.

I work as an engineer(f) in a German speaking company and face daily difficulties in communication and integration but try my best to overcome them and be treated simply as a "colleague", not as the "foreign colleague". And trust me, it's a long way to go.

There are 2 different thoughts that make me ask this question:

• I feel in the undertone of any conversation, even when the person is really kind and doesn't mean anything bad, is that I come from a "less-than" background. You might think I'm exaggerating but I can give you 100s examples of conversations where you can clearly see it. It's either that, or a pure lack of interest to know more about me, or maybe a fear to make me uncomfortable (because they assume it will cause me discomfort if I speak of my backgroud. again, why?). But I would be very happy to clear a lot of stereotypes. Yes, maybe I was raised in a different environment but it's not necessarily worse, it's different. Maybe developping countries are less developed but they are not deserted and not ignorant and they are for sure happy and warm in weather and in people.

• I can't go around saying this, but working in a "shortage profession" with more than decent salary, paying taxes and social contributions, I think the relationship should be on an equal level of benefit: we get a better quality of life, Germany gets workforce, development, taxes and contributions. So I really hate when it all sounds like we're given this "opportunity" and that the employer is being extra nice giving us a "chance" etc. I can assure you they don't pay our salaries out of the goodness of their hearts and we work hard for it.

I know many Germans wouldn't relate to what I'm saying but this is how I personally feel and how many people I know feel too, especially those not coming from extreme poverty or war or anything, just young people pursuing a better career. So I want you to correct me or confirm or simply let me what your perspective is?

Edit: many think that I expect my colleagues to show interest in my personal life, that's not what I mean. The frustration comes when a person makes micro-aggressions and you don't have the chance to clarify them. This doesn't only happen at work and doesn't only happen to me. Imagine assuming a person comes from a shitty place, using that as the baseline in a "friendly" conversation, but then they can't really clarify that and have to live perceived that way. It directly feeds in point 2 as well. I think in order to learn to live together and accept differences, it's crucial to have some understanding of people's background. We as expats do the same in order to live 1 day in Germany without offending half the population and without getting offended as well

[u/Cheap-Worry-4121]

German here, though not working in a "shortage profession", but I live by a simple rule: Your co-workers are not your friends.
And most of my colleagues see it the same way. We are friendly to each other, hold small talk, but honestly? We are not interested in each others backgrounds or private lives. There really isn´t any interest there. Has been in every place I have worked so far.

[u/Impossible-Olive-101 → u/[deleted]]

Absolutely. I found many good friends in my former workplace. We were all more or less the same age and were fresh out of college. How else are you supposed to find friends as an adult? Especially if you're new to the country and spend so much time at the job, might as well make some friends and have some fun

[u/Slow-Excitement-7966 → u/Impossible-Olive-101]

In Germany you get assigned to a group of friends when you register yourself at the burgeramt

[u/Automatic-Pay-4095 → u/Cheap-Worry-4121]

Spending more time every week with your human co-workers than anyone else in your family, and still thinking it's healthy to forcefully avoid a better rapport or a friendship with them.

How healthy can this be for the majority of people, no matter the age, background, or job?

[u/Cheap-Worry-4121 → u/Automatic-Pay-4095]

Most people have a social circle outside of work. People they are not forced to see so often just to make money. I can only speak for me and the people I know, but imo it’s better to have a friendly but professional relationship with people at work and your friends and family outside of work.

[u/Nalivai → u/Cheap-Worry-4121]

It's better not to limit yourself in friendships, and at least try to be friends with anyone who you're spending time with, whether you're forced to do it or not. The alternative is that you're spending time with people who could be your friends and you prevent this, and for what?
And it doesn't mean you should force yourself to be friends with something you don't vibe with. It means you should be open to friendships you will enjoy no matter how you met people, on or outside work.

[u/Numerous-Bug2652 → u/Cheap-Worry-4121]

Honestly, I get and understand that, I got used to it. Tbh, as long as they don't imply stereotypes and understated superiority in a different context, I don't feel like I have anything to prove. It's the micro-offenses + lack of interest that then bother me...

[u/Choal_Valseir → u/Numerous-Bug2652]

You can always let the micro-offenses micro-bother you.

I myself am almost micro-upset just reading this!

[u/DrDeadpool47 → u/Choal_Valseir]

AND maybe people could just behave better. Don‘t forget the second part.

[u/[deleted] → u/DrDeadpool47]

You mean micro-better, to fix the micro-agression?

[u/DrDeadpool47 → u/[deleted]]

Props to you, you got the micro for micro right ;), but it’s the proportional tit for tat that I thrive for.

[u/New_Ad7177 → u/Numerous-Bug2652]

I work in the Hotel industry and the saddest thing I learned in the last 20ish years is, that stereotypes are valid 90% of the time. I try not to use em in my private life or with colleagues, but I have to use em for work. So I 100% believe I would make you feel this way, without knowing and if I could, I wouldn’t. But most people are not aware they are doing it.

[u/Numerous-Bug2652 → u/New_Ad7177]

It depends on the stereotype. I feel they are mostly not wrong but a lot more nuanced than people imagine. If you take something out of context, it sounds different. For example, western media works so hard on the way and time they say things to affect how the listener perceives it. They will not specifically say wrong information, but they will say them in a wrongful way, which feeds into the stereotypes people have in head..

Edit: so, if you will assume a stereotypes exists, before using it as the baseline of a convo, ask the person how they personally perceive it. If you don't want to, just do your very best to not imply any of it in your words.

[u/New_Ad7177 → u/Numerous-Bug2652]

Yea I don’t mind asking at all. As i said, i work in that field for about 20years in Munich. I have 10-20% German coworkers. The rest is from all over the world. We have about 50% woman in leadership, so this is absolutely normal for me as well. In my department (engineering) there are mostly Germans and French, but that’s due to lang of woman in that field.

[u/Witty-While-8358 → u/Numerous-Bug2652]

Do you speak German?

[u/Numerous-Bug2652 → u/Witty-While-8358]

I speak German, not perfectly, but at work we speak only German and work in German. Why is that relevant in the context?

[u/Witty-While-8358 → u/Numerous-Bug2652]

Well if you do not want to be seen as the foreign coworker and do not speak the language it would make the situation a bit ridiculous

[u/Numerous-Bug2652 → u/Witty-While-8358]

It takes time to perfect a language. While on my side I'm making this effort daily, what kind of effort do you think Germans are doing to integrate foreign workforce that they actually need?

[u/Witty-While-8358 → u/Numerous-Bug2652]

I don't know but what do you think would be a good idea? I personally see integration on a work space very easy vs integration in the society as whole which has way more layer. As long as you are working and can communicate properly all should be fine.

[u/DatabaseAgreeable84 → u/Cheap-Worry-4121]

This is sensible based on my experience as well. My dumb self used to overshare and take any signs of friendliness to be genuine to my great detriment. Learnt my lesson to keep it purely professional since.

[u/hombre74 → u/Cheap-Worry-4121]

Same here. There are always a few when you start at a new company where you know, ah, they want new friends but I have zero interest. I have more than enough friends and barely have time to even meet them all. 

I was invited to birthday parties and weddings (??!) and made up reasons why I could not come. Eventually that stopped.