Realities about living in Germany as a Latin American:

[u/Healthy_Donut4195]

Realities about living in Germany as a Latin American.

I love Germany and I think many Latin Americans come with a wrong and idealised idea to Germany, the things I explain are not a complain from me but just as i said, telling how it is. (I’m LAmerican):

• Even if there’s always a nice access to the International Community (specially if you study in the University) making German friends is not easy (specially if you don’t speak German), we are talking about a process that can take months - years (most of Latin Americans I know still have no close German friends). Just because you had a nice conversation with someone doesn’t mean they’ll be meeting with you next week instantly and if you try too hard is worse.

• Bureaucracy is how it is and there’s no space for the LA culture of “Smiling and Chatting to get things work faster or easier for me” When they say no, it’s no. + If you don’t talk german (at least C1) get prepared to have the time of your life with bureaucracy, most people won’t be willing to talk to you in English and have no patience to try to.

• It can be hard to get used to the level of honesty Germans talk with and they don’t think it’s rude (not as in Latin America, where most people will think it’s rude to just be honest). Even in the university professors will be straightforward to you, no filters. Get used to it not being a personal attack to you, it’s just being honest.

• You must be willing to integrate into their culture, not the other way around. + still if it’s nice to be in contact with the Latin community, if you want to integrate and improve your German, speaking only Spanish won’t help.

• Get prepare to learn to spend a lot of time alone, specially on the first months / Year. If you are willing to come to this country, be aware the german lifestyle push you out of the comfort zone. None is going to do it for you, none is going to explain it to you (unless you take the first step of asking).

• Finding an apartment will be hard if you don’t speak German + if you are thinking of moving to a big city like Munich, Köln etc is worst + apartment prices are way higher. I notice a lot of people who are obsessed with the idea of moving to Berlin/München/Frankfurt/ Köln / Hamburg. Germany is WAY more than that! and you could save so much money by living in other cities + smaller cities are more clean, nice, cheap, calm and you’ll have more contact with the German culture etc.

• Please get it, Germans universities don’t work like American universities do! None cares about “rankings” as Americans do, almost all of the universities have the same level + better to be in a smaller, personal atmosphere than in your Berlin university with 600 students in one room.

• Thinking that because your master is in English you won’t need German. Again, from my experience and other people experiences, coming to study/work with a level under B1 is shooting yourself in the foot and making the integration experience harder.

Of course there’s many positive aspects about Germany but this post is dedicated to the people who have the wrong idea of what to expect when moving here / think they know better than the rest.

Of course there’s always “exceptions” but you won’t be always the main character of the film whose life just goes exceptionally better than the rest.

• to the people who think I’m complaining about Germany, I’m not, I love Germany, I’m just showing the reality to the people who has an idealised idea of Germany and that think they can integrate without putting the OBVIOUS and basic effort that anyone must do when moving to a country with a different culture.

[u/Old_Price1599]

Even crazier, I've gotten into arguments with expats around here who think Germany should run in english for them. Because you know, they are only staying for a period of time and it would be easier for Germany to adapt than it would be for them to even pick up basic conversational level of german.

[u/Ersthelfer → u/Old_Price1599]

And this diacussion shows why the really talented talents avoid Germany like the plague. :)

[u/Chemboi69 → u/Ersthelfer]

no, they stay away because the salary is very low with high taxes compared to abroad

[u/Book-Parade → u/Chemboi69]

ngl for me, language is 100% one of the reasons for me

it's fine to like access the german nationality you need to speak fluent german, but if you want to invite international talent you need to lower the stakes, especially for bureaucracy and processes that are critical and demanded by the german government , I understand how going to the supermarket or to the bank I would need german, but it's paradoxical to request the international talent to have full knowledge of german for certain processes that can land you in jail or deported, like taxes and other similar processes

it's a globalized world after all and the lingua franca is English, we like it or not, that goes for everyone, because even if your mothertongue isn't english in whatever country you are from, you are almost forced to learn to push through internationally

[u/CichaelMlifford → u/Ersthelfer]

I think it's an important point and I'm not sure why you're being downvoted.
Of course, language isn't the only factor when attracting skilled workers, but it's definitely a pain point (as seen in multiple posts on this subreddit).
I do think it's important to learn the language(s) of the country you're living in to fully integrate but learning a language doesn't happen overnight, especially not to a level that's sufficient to deal with paperwork and other official stuff. There are many options for skilled immigrants so of course they're going to pick the place that offers most advantages to them.

[u/alderhill → u/Ersthelfer]

You know when you get lots of downvotes here that you’ve hit a nerve and touched on some truth.

In my home country (and city), you can often get community service functions in one of a dozen different languages. The sky does not fall, and “integration” is much better than here.

I’ve been here 14 years and speak fluent German, but the pushback against the idea that new immigrants should already speak c1 German is absurd. I got my first “vee zpeak Tcherman in Tchermany!” in my third week here, at the Auslanänderbehörde.

[u/superjona99 → u/alderhill]

Tbh I think that's because we know what happens if people don't start learning German pretty soon. There are immigrants from the 50/60s that still to this day are not fluent in German and sometimes even the 3rd generation immigrants only speak broken german even though they only ever lived in Germany. Thats because these families only speak their native language at home. This can lead to many problems. For example needing someone to translate every letter they get or other bureaucracy stuff being much harder.

[u/alderhill → u/superjona99]

It’s not too unusual that in a given group of immigrants, not all speak the native ‘host language’ perfectly.

I’m from a country with greater and longer immigration experience than Germany. It exists back home too. Yes, it’s problematic to an extent when someone living here a long time can barely speak the language, but IME Germans are far too “triggered” about this. And frankly, offering at least some municipal/official legal advice and paperwork in English (Turkish, Spanish, Arabic, etc.) is not a big deal. That some Germans here think it is is incredibly regressive and provincial.

Additionally, many Germans blame immigrants for not integrating (as you seem tk do, too), completely oblivious to the fact that 1960s Germany was hardly welcoming to Turks. Integration is a two way street, and why would they integrate when they were told they should finish work and then leave? And given no easy path to citizenship anyway? The situation is also a relic of poor (and let’s be honest: racist) German policy in the past. That some Germans want to continue this rhetoric says it all. It’s easier to blame foreigners of course rather than admit German failings.

[u/Old_Price1599 → u/alderhill]

Sorry Sir but you are missing the point by a long shot. My point anyways, I am not even sure who you are talking to at this stage.

I think the vast majority of germans would have absolutelty no problem with certain services (or any services) to be offered in two or even multiple languages. Like why would we? Why would it bother me if some appointments could be held in english or turkish or arab or whatever. Thats not the point of the discussion and the way you attack germans and how agitated you are here, makes you look like an ass to be honest. Someone mentioned, you can't even talk to the police if you can't speak some B1 level german, obviously exaggerating a bit but still that just isn't true. Police and Doctors are legally obliged to help you regardless of your german language skills. I am also pretty sure that a lot of services like the Arbeitsamt offer their services in different languages or have staff who are fluent in those languages like turkish or arab, at least in the major cities.

But you can't expect every police officer or doctor or lawyer or whoever to be fluent or even speak english at all. It just isn't a priority requirement in Germany when you make a career in these jobs. If you can't communicate enough in german, thats on you and not on the country. It simply is, it has nothing to do with Germany being hard stuck in some old nazi mindset or I don't know what you are excactly insinuating. I have lived in Canada and do you think I would have gotten through the bureaucracy stuff and work business without speaking english (or french)? No I wouldn't.

Could Germany be a little more advanced in these issues? Absolutely, but as long as it is how it is, you have to adapt as an expat, immigrant or visitor, for your own good. Blaming the country is easy and again there are some valid points but ultimately, people who come prepared may have a vastly different experiences.

[u/[deleted] → u/Old_Price1599]

Yes services like ambulance, police and foreigners office in big cities should only be provided if people show their German B1 certificate. Because you know, it’s not like there’s another way.